Is going to college still worth it?

[jeezifonly]

A college degree? Maybe not worth it.

Some sort of education after high school?  A good idea.

Getting out of your parents’ house (and a small town) at 19? Essential. 

[marylander1940]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:25 PM, jeezifonly said:

A college degree? Maybe not worth it.

Some sort of education after high school?  A good idea.

Getting out of your parents’ house (and a small town) at 19? Essential. 

are you speaking based on your own experience? 

[Ali Gator]

On 1/6/2024 at 10:02 PM, WilliamM said:

In your opinion

 

That's all we're offering here - our own opinions. 

[marylander1940]

On 1/7/2024 at 9:59 AM, Luv2play said:

For me going to university meant the opportunity to cultivate my mind. Perhaps a quaint notion these days but my having attended 8 years of post high school education gave me the foundation to pursue the career I wanted. 
 

I’ve been retired for 25 years after taking an early retirement and continue to cultivate my mind. Learning in different environments has given me new skills and competencies. I currently hold top positions in three organizations on a volunteer basis and write a regular newspaper column. 
 

I could never have succeeded at these and other posts I have held during my so called retirement if I had’t gone to university and learned how to learn. 

I agree with you but if you've been retired for 25 years you went to college in a whole different world. The world has changed a lot since then and it's way more competitive than it was before.

[+ JEC]

I think the statistics still prove that your earning potential is much higher with college (or trade school) education. It is true that things have gotten much more competitive at the Ivy level, however, there are still great affordable choices in the state schools. I am a VP at a large organization, started my career and community college, went to work, earned my bachelor's at night (having my employer pay for half of it), and just a few years ago completed my MBA and a top state school program, which cost $39,000 and I paid cash.  Point is, there are lots of pathways to education…. We tend to think of higher education as a binary thing… Go directly from high school, go to top school, have mom and dad pay. There are many alternative, affordable, and accessible choices out there.

Edited January 14 by JEC

[+ WilliamM]

On 1/6/2024 at 8:45 PM, Ali Gator said:

4 - 5 years ago ? That was pre-pandemic, which was an eternity ago in education. It has nothing to do with today's students. The pandemic changed everything. You may want to consider auditing a class today for a taste of the new reality.

It has been  many years since the pandemic, my  friend 

[jeezifonly]

6 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

are you speaking based on your own experience? 

I went to college, got a degree and lived at home every summer while working. When the opportunity came to leave Ohio for LA, I took it. 
Universally, I think learning a trade, a craft, or something after high school makes one more employable. Getting out of your small environment (childhood home, small community) is important for becoming your own adult. IMO.

[Ali Gator]

18 hours ago, jeezifonly said:

 Getting out of your small environment (childhood home, small community) is important for becoming your own adult. IMO.

I understand what you're saying, but I know many people who have left their small environment to become an adult and it didn't work out as planned. But every individual is different...

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

2 hours ago, Ali Gator said:

I understand what you're saying, but I know many people who have left their small environment to become an adult and it didn't work out as planned. But every individual is different...

Some individuals may thrive with smaller steps towards independence.  Perhaps living at home during the first two years while attending community college.  Then perhaps attending a university in a small college town in the South with comforting surroundings.  Kudos to the students and families who are able to shop for colleges, and kudos to those who are aware there is more to choosing a university that is a good fit for the student other than the newness of the dormitories.

[+ WilliamM]

My uncle suggested I apply to a community College.

Instead I applied to the four year college hegrauded and luckily I was accepted and graduated four years later

All the advice in the world is just that only "advice."

[Rudynate]

I have a BA in biology from one of the better land-grant universities, a MLIS from a campus in the Cal State system and a law degree from Purdue Global Law School, a fully-online program.  I passed the California Bar exam on my first try.  I financed all of it myself - and graduated from law school with no student debt.  The salary for my first job after law school was truly eye-popping. And becoming a lawyer was a lifelong dream.

I don't regret a single hour or a single dollar of my investment in post-secondary education.  Now though, a path like the one I took may not even be possible because college and graduate school are so ungodly expensive.

[Mo Mason]

I advise all the youngsters in my family to pick a trade unless they are planning on studying IT/Computer Science, Accounting/Finance, or Nursing.  I don't want them to be stuck with crippling debt for the rest of their lives like I am with my wasted Fine Arts/Psychology degree.  LOL  

In my defense, my plan was to continue graduate studies and become an Art Therapist but some personal and family issues/emergencies derailed that plan and, after nearly twenty years, I never was able to get back on track.

[+ sniper]

It's very hard to tease out correlation/causation on college degrees and earnings since employers made them a requirement and simultaneously the collapse of unions led to plummetting wages in most jobs that don't require a degree. But you absolutely shouldn't go six figures in debt in your early 20s unless it's to be a doctor. Too many people go to the "best" school they got into(i.e. most expensive) asuming it will all work itself out and that simply isn't how it works anymore. 

Edited January 21 by sniper

[ShortCutie7]

On 3/30/2024 at 9:22 AM, marylander1940 said:

 

Soaring tuition: These New England colleges and universities will cost you more than $90K a year

WWW.BOSTON25NEWS.COM

---

Several private colleges and universities in New England will cost more than $90,000 to attend this fall.

 

I went to one of the schools listed in that article and it is a million percent not worth it.  I posted earlier in the thread that I had chosen the wrong school for me/my interests, but even if it had been worth it at the time, inflation would bring tuition closer to 60k than what it is now.

[BSR]

On 1/3/2024 at 6:54 AM, soloyo215 said:

I work in the healthcare industry, and my health system has performed kidney transplants to humans from genetically modified pigs. They have conducted face transplants, and have an entire ward dedicated to gender affirmation surgery. Would you like a kidney transplant performed by a person who learned how to perform surgery on the streets? I don't think so. So university education is essential in that arena.

Of course, doctors need university education.  Writers, entrepreneurs, computer programmers can be self-taught.  But a surgeon?  Eek!

My micro-rant about educating physicians is that we should do away with the traditional model of 4 years undergrad + 4 years medical school and switch over to the European model of a straight shot in 6 years.  That way kids save 2 years of pricey tuition (even state universities can be hella expensive nowadays) plus room/board/etc. while gaining 2 years of earning an income + being a productive member of society.  Dental schools, optometry, and law schools should also switch over to the 6-year model.

True, kids run the risk of realizing that their chosen field isn't right for them, but that's a risk they run with the 4+4 model as well.  Another argument against is that kids won't get a well-rounded undergrad education, but guess what?  If you teach kids how to think instead of what to think, they can study Heigel and read Camus on their own.  Why tack on 2 extra but in the end unnecessary years of university?  Just so that doctors can wax poetic about that Shakespeare class in undergrad??  F*ok that!

By saving aspiring doctors/dentists/optometrists 2 years of staggering loans (just 1 year for lawyers, but still a savings), the vast majority of them will end up far better off </endmicrorant>

[+ nycman]

3 hours ago, BSR said:

My micro-rant about educating physicians is that we should do away with the traditional model of 4 years undergrad + 4 years medical school and switch over to the European model of a straight shot in 6 years.

Let’s just say, I disagree. 

I believe a college education is an important part of being an intelligent professional.

"Fast track physicians" end up being mental and social morons.

[soloyo215]

3 hours ago, BSR said:

Of course, doctors need university education.  Writers, entrepreneurs, computer programmers can be self-taught.  But a surgeon?  Eek!

My micro-rant about educating physicians is that we should do away with the traditional model of 4 years undergrad + 4 years medical school and switch over to the European model of a straight shot in 6 years.  That way kids save 2 years of pricey tuition (even state universities can be hella expensive nowadays) plus room/board/etc. while gaining 2 years of earning an income + being a productive member of society.  Dental schools, optometry, and law schools should also switch over to the 6-year model.

True, kids run the risk of realizing that their chosen field isn't right for them, but that's a risk they run with the 4+4 model as well.  Another argument against is that kids won't get a well-rounded undergrad education, but guess what?  If you teach kids how to think instead of what to think, they can study Heigel and read Camus on their own.  Why tack on 2 extra but in the end unnecessary years of university?  Just so that doctors can wax poetic about that Shakespeare class in undergrad??  F*ok that!

By saving aspiring doctors/dentists/optometrists 2 years of staggering loans (just 1 year for lawyers, but still a savings), the vast majority of them will end up far better off </endmicrorant>

I agree about that model, and many others that are more convenient. Unfortunately, in the USA the model is not the problem. Regardless of the model we have in place, they are always going to find ways of making it pricey, racist and difficult to access. The American culture is anti-education, anti-critical thinking and anti-equitable access. The model that we use doesn't matter in that respect.

The moment we start admitting how we in USA do things, then we will start having real solutions.

Edited April 5 by soloyo215

[pubic_assistance]

42 minutes ago, nycman said:

Let’s just say, I disagree. 

I believe a college education is an important part of being an intelligent professional.

"Fast track physicians" end up being mental and social morons.

I find the majority of young college graduates lack anything resembling the kind of classical education I received. But I blame this partially on lowered standards at the high school level in an effort to make everyone more "equal' and tests easier to pass, they've abandoned college-bound students to merely memorizing enough information to pass their test without actually becoming a sophisticated thinker.

As they say ...taught what to think, not HOW to think. Universities inheriting these weak minds, do nothing but continue the brainwashing and coddling. Instead of graduating mature adults with creative minds we end up with young men and women with graduate degrees who know less about the real world than I did by the 10th grade of high school

.

[Ali Gator]

According to an article in Fortune Magazine this week (sorry - it's paywalled),  there's a growing number of Gen Zers choosing vocational schools over college. They're learning to be plumbers, mechanics, electricians, etc - and jumping into these skilled careers where they can earn a six figure salary starting out.  Good for them. 

[pubic_assistance]

6 minutes ago, Ali Gator said:

According to an article in Fortune Magazine this week (sorry - it's paywalled),  there's a growing number of Gen Zers choosing vocational schools over college. They're learning to be plumbers, mechanics, electricians, etc - and jumping into these skilled careers where they can earn a six figure salary starting out.  Good for them. 

I agree. Bravo on the practicality of this choice.

[Rudynate]

2 hours ago, Ali Gator said:

According to an article in Fortune Magazine this week (sorry - it's paywalled),  there's a growing number of Gen Zers choosing vocational schools over college. They're learning to be plumbers, mechanics, electricians, etc - and jumping into these skilled careers where they can earn a six figure salary starting out.  Good for them. 

My plumber is a little older than Gen Zer - maybe young Gen X.  He has a BFA and was/is an artist.  

[+ Charlie]

The problem with trying to answer whether "going to college is worth it" is that you will never really know until long after you have made the choice. It turned out to be worth it, for me, when I made the choice in the middle of the last century. Who knows whether it will be worth it for a particular individual trying to decide today? So much about the world can change within a lifetime, not to mention the changes within the individual. The important things to consider are what you know about yourself and your goals,  and what you know about the choices that are available to you.

Edited April 5 by Charlie

[BSR]

10 hours ago, nycman said:

Let’s just say, I disagree. 

I believe a college education is an important part of being an intelligent professional.

"Fast track physicians" end up being mental and social morons.

How do you know that "fast track physicians" end up being mental and social morons?  What magical things happen in that extra 2 years of university that so transforms students?

[BSR]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

The problem with trying to answer whether "going to college is worth it" is that you will never really know until long after you have made the choice. It turned out to be worth it, for me, when I made the choice in the middle of the last century. Who knows whether it will be worth it for a particular individual trying to decide today? So much about the world can change within a lifetime, not to mention the changes within the individual. The important things to consider are what you know about yourself and your goals,  and what you know about the choices that are available to you.

I think it all boils down to whether you learn critical thinking in college, or not.  Kids who learn what to think are useless.  But kids who learn how to think will be able to adapt their critical thinking skills to many fields and many different career paths.  Unfortunately, universities today are churning out way too many of the former and precious few of the latter.

[+ purplekow]

23 minutes ago, BSR said:

How do you know that "fast track physicians" end up being mental and social morons?  What magical things happen in that extra 2 years of university that so transforms students?

Having been in medical education for 40 years, yikes I am old, the cuts in the time spent in basic medical education alone are startling and the quality of graduates we are seeing now compared to even 10 years ago has dropped precipitously.  Medicine has become lots of algorithems and unnecessary testing. The art has been sucked out of it.  

Shortening the university education would only add to the lack of general knowledge and interactive skills of out future care providers.  Most physicians who take the traditional path have completed medical school at 26, those taking the 6 year course are 24.  Fairly good data shows brain development, especially in males, decision making and maturity, is not complete until at least 25.  The problem is not the length of training, the problem is the cost of training.  Albert Einstein School of Medicine recently received a billion dollar endowment and all tuition is free.  Without the burden of that debt, graduates can face their future without the cloud of untenable debt for years to come.  Two years more of training to allow maturity and a full broad based educated and well trained professional is, for me, preferable to a student who has rushed though medical school, with no other diversity in their education.  Give me a debt free individual who can speak with clarity and concern perhaps in more than one language and who understands medical ethics as well as other classic principles.  This is  who I want taking care of me.