Is going to college still worth it?

[+ WilliamM]

21 hours ago, Ali Gator said:

As an employee in a prestigious business university, I will answer a bit differently...it's not a question of 'whether college is still worth it' ; it's a question of whether the potential student 'is worth college'. 

I hate to keep saying it, but the majority of this current generation who are ready to enter college or currently attending college is not mature enough nor responsible enough to attend college. So the answer is - no, college is not 'worth it' because this generation is not capable of getting any worth out of college. 

I would love to invite all of you to work by my side for one day. You wouldn't believe what I - and my colleagues - have to deal with on a day to day basis. And yes, I blame the parents - for coddling them and babying them. 

I audited classes at the University of Pennsylvania after I retired. There were several Wharton students in a some of the classes. Don't agree with your comments 

[Ali Gator]

On 1/5/2024 at 6:20 PM, WilliamM said:

I audited classes at the University of Pennsylvania after I retired. There were several Wharton students in a some of the classes. Don't agree with your comments 

You give no indication of when you audited these classes, but apparently it was in the past. I'm talking of the future and the present. As I said, "the majority of this current generation who are ready to enter college or currently attending college". 

What you saw in the past has nothing to do with what I'm talking about today.

Edited January 7 by Ali Gator

[+ WilliamM]

29 minutes ago, Ali Gator said:

You give no indication of when you audited these classes, but apparently it was in the past. I'm talking of the future and the present. As I said, "the majority of this current generation who are ready to enter college or currently attending college". 

What you saw in the past has nothing to do with what I'm talking about today.

It was just a few years ago, four or five

Sorry, I strongly disagree with you

I  audited many  coursey  and participated by doing all the reading  and getting to know the students 

[Ali Gator]

5 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

It was just a few years ago, four or five

Sorry, I strongly disagree with you

I  audited many  coursey  and participated by doing all the reading  and getting to know the students 

4 - 5 years ago ? That was pre-pandemic, which was an eternity ago in education. It has nothing to do with today's students. The pandemic changed everything. You may want to consider auditing a class today for a taste of the new reality.

[+ WilliamM]

1 hour ago, Ali Gator said:

4 - 5 years ago ? That was pre-pandemic, which was an eternity ago in education. It has nothing to do with today's students. The pandemic changed everything. You may want to consider auditing a class today for a taste of the new reality.

In your opinion

 

[pubic_assistance]

On 1/5/2024 at 9:05 AM, soloyo215 said:

now you were able to read the minds of the student population of a vocational high school in the early 80s, so you can assert that they "declared" that they don't want to go to college.

You seem to be an adult who cluelessly entered a vocational program without understanding what you were getting into.

So ...YES.

By entering a vocational program in high school you've declared you're NOT going to college...because a vocational program doesn't provide the academics necessary to pass your  college entrance exams.

Sorry but your parents really didn't explain much of anything to you. That's sad. But as I said...water under the bridge. Lots of peope have alcoholic losers for parents. They seek out other people for advice because they know they can't rely on their parents. I think you missed the boat on that one.

[Just Chuck]

Being mature enough for college to get the benefit from it is very important.  

I thought I was going to spend a career in the military.  Then, when I was disqualified for military service because I I was asthmatic, I had no idea what to do.  

My parents talked me into trying college.  I went to college but didn't really take it seriously.  I drank, partied, and just did enough work to get by.  I shouldn't have been there. I got a degree in public administration but, didn't get my money's worth from an education.  I went to work in a field that didn't require a college education after that.

With some experience in the workforce, I gained some maturity and realized that I actually did have the aptitude and discipline to try something harder and actually commit to it.  I went back to school and got an engineering degree.  That's been very worthwhile for me.

At the same time, when I first went to college, straight out of high school, the national average for tuition, room, and board was far less expensive than it is today.

 

 

 

[soloyo215]

9 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

You seem to be an adult who cluelessly entered a vocational program without understanding what you were getting into.

So ...YES.

By entering a vocational program in high school you've declared you're NOT going to college...because a vocational program doesn't provide the academics necessary to pass your  college entrance exams.

Sorry but your parents really didn't explain much of anything to you. That's sad. But as I said...water under the bridge. Lots of peope have alcoholic losers for parents. They seek out other people for advice because they know they can't rely on their parents. I think you missed the boat on that one.

 

[Luv2play]

For me going to university meant the opportunity to cultivate my mind. Perhaps a quaint notion these days but my having attended 8 years of post high school education gave me the foundation to pursue the career I wanted. 
 

I’ve been retired for 25 years after taking an early retirement and continue to cultivate my mind. Learning in different environments has given me new skills and competencies. I currently hold top positions in three organizations on a volunteer basis and write a regular newspaper column. 
 

I could never have succeeded at these and other posts I have held during my so called retirement if I had’t gone to university and learned how to learn. 

[pubic_assistance]

13 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

I could never have succeeded at these and other posts I have held during my so called retirement if I had’t gone to university and learned how to learn. 

Different Era.

Today, many Universities teach WHAT to think, not HOW to think.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

For me going to university meant the opportunity to cultivate my mind.

Absolutely. 

[Guest]

Just now, pubic_assistance said:

Today, many Universities teach WHAT to think, not HOW to think.

I think this also is true. But a discerning student knows the difference. While obtaining my professional degree, the curriculum was jam-packed with courses pushing various ideological agendas that were: cause oriented, presented a singular point of view (the professor’s), relevant only for a snapshot in time, and more about making the professor than the student. I’m not against some offerings of the WHAT, but the less discerning student could obtain a degree solely on the WHAT and none of the HOW. Those that did have not fared well.

Soon after graduating, I worked for one those WHAT students. He was critical of me because I was all about the HOW and in his view could not be committed enough to the cause to be effective, i.e., the ideological litmus test.  I explained to him that because I was a HOW student, I could be far more effective in advancing his cause (and frankly the counter-cause); my personal beliefs were entirely irrelevant. Fast forward 30 years and I’ve had a brilliant career because I know HOW; his was a dumpster fire because he only knew WHAT.

I can figure out the WHAT on my own; just teach me the HOW. If you can’t teach HOW, you shouldn’t be teaching.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

2 hours ago, Luv2play said:

. I currently hold top positions in three organizations on a volunteer basis and write a regular newspaper column. 
 

I could never have succeeded at these and other posts I have held during my so called retirement if I had’t gone to university and learned how to learn. 

That's awesome!

I currently hold bottom positions in three-way orgies on a volunteer basis.  I can't give credit to my success at this for going to university.

[Luv2play]

12 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

That's awesome!

I currently hold bottom positions in three-way orgies on a volunteer basis.  I can't give credit to my success at this for going to university.

Just to keep some balance in my life, I also love assuming the bottom position in my extra- curricular activities involving escorts where I am the volunteer with some hired help. 

[+ WilliamM]

2 hours ago, WilliamM said:

Are you a professor?

Or a teaching assistant 

[marylander1940]

5 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Different Era.

Today, many Universities teach WHAT to think, not HOW to think.

And despite that most college students think how to become a billionaire instead of how to change the world like so many did in the 60's and 70's....At least that's what I thought before I saw so many colleges going crazy supporting Hammas.... 

Sorry for taking this slightly off subject! 

[ShortCutie7]

I’m a millennial and I knew EXACTLY what I wanted to do by the time I was 12 or so.  My issue was that I chose the wrong college for what I wanted to do (I was considering transferring out my freshman year but thought it would get better after I got required courses and prerequisites out of the way… it did not).  It wasn’t until I went to grad school (which I loved) that I truly realized how poor of an experience college was.  I think more emphasis should be placed on finding the RIGHT college/program… I only chose the one I did because it was known to be a good school and I was ensured as such by administration at my high school (and was offered some financial aide).  And it was and is a good school… just not for me or what I wanted to do.

[Luv2play]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

Just can't discuss the Ivy League's pro Hammas stance here without delving straight into politics.

But yes. In general, such subjects should presented as a global QUESTION requiring dialdialog, supported as an overly simplistic answer.

 

Agree we can’t discuss the question of Hamas in this forum but we could at least get the spelling correct. Lol

[marylander1940]

3 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Just can't discuss the Ivy League's pro Hammas stance here without delving straight into politics.

But yes. In general, such subjects should presented as a global QUESTION requiring dialdialog, supported as an overly simplistic answer.

 

Agreed and it was barely an example of how "idealism" can turn people stupid. 

I hope most college students are still interested in starting a company/app, or making a killing in the stock market instead of "fighting windmills" with misguided grasp on reality. 

2 hours ago, Luv2play said:

Agree we can’t discuss the question of Hamas in this forum but we could at least get the spelling correct. Lo

Thanks 

Edited January 8 by marylander1940

[pubic_assistance]

4 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

Sorry for taking this slightly off subject! 

Just can't discuss the Ivy League's pro Hamas stance here without delving straight into politics....

These types of subjects should presented as QUESTIONS requiring dialog, not supported with overly simplistic answers.

Edited January 8 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[BSR]

10 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Today, many Universities teach WHAT to think, not HOW to think.

Unfortunately, this disgrace plagues every level of education, from preschool to university.  Narcissists who don't give a sh*t about their students because they care only about themselves ram narratives down kids' throats, and the difference between an A+ & a D- is simply how well the student parrots back what the so-called teacher wants to hear.  Sadder still is that society applauds these grotesquely selfish narcissists simply because they are called teachers.

We all know people who work in a field totally different from their college major.  I know an art history major who works as a transportation consultant, a PhD in anthropology who became a McKinsey partner, a Wharton finance major who ended up as a fine art buying agent, etc.  These people succeeded in fields very different from their major because they learned HOW to think.

Contrast that with the poor bastard who only learns WHAT to think.  Put them in an unfamiliar situation, and they're completely lost because they never learned critical thought.  The narratives & ideologies they learned in college might make them feel good (there is no chic like victim chic), but I wouldn't hire them to sharpen pencils.

[+ WilliamM]

12 hours ago, BSR said:

Unfortunately, this disgrace plagues every level of education, from preschool to university.  Narcissists who don't give a sh*t about their students because they care only about themselves ram narratives down kids' throats, and the difference between an A+ & a D- is simply how well the student parrots back what the so-called teacher wants to hear.  Sadder still is that society applauds these grotesquely selfish narcissists simply because they are called teachers.

We all know people who work in a field totally different from their college major.  I know an art history major who works as a transportation consultant, a PhD in anthropology who became a McKinsey partner, a Wharton finance major who ended up as a fine art buying agent, etc.  These people succeeded in fields very different from their major because they learned HOW to think.

Contrast that with the poor bastard who only learns WHAT to think.  Put them in an unfamiliar situation, and they're completely lost because they never learned critical thought.  The narratives & ideologies they learned in college might make them feel good (there is no chic like victim chic), but I wouldn't hire them to sharpen pencils.

In preschool we listened to Harry Truman's inauguration in the radio.

 

Education was quite helpful 

[marylander1940]

13 hours ago, BSR said:

Unfortunately, this disgrace plagues every level of education, from preschool to university.  Narcissists who don't give a sh*t about their students because they care only about themselves ram narratives down kids' throats, and the difference between an A+ & a D- is simply how well the student parrots back what the so-called teacher wants to hear.  Sadder still is that society applauds these grotesquely selfish narcissists simply because they are called teachers.

We all know people who work in a field totally different from their college major.  I know an art history major who works as a transportation consultant, a PhD in anthropology who became a McKinsey partner, a Wharton finance major who ended up as a fine art buying agent, etc.  These people succeeded in fields very different from their major because they learned HOW to think.

Contrast that with the poor bastard who only learns WHAT to think.  Put them in an unfamiliar situation, and they're completely lost because they never learned critical thought.  The narratives & ideologies they learned in college might make them feel good (there is no chic like victim chic), but I wouldn't hire them to sharpen pencils.

"Cult of victimhood", "most selfish people in the world", "narcissistic", etc. 

Critical thinking has nothing to do with repeating the same "trigger phrases". 

I do agree with you that most people end up working in a field similar and sometimes different than what they studied. 

Unfortunately, the some want things to go back to the 50's where someone would get a job after high school, work there for 35 years and retire to a nice comfortable life as long as he was white and preferably not Jewish or catholic. 

The world has changed, it always changes, and we must adapt instead of blaming others for all of our problems. 

Ask now what your country can do for you... ask what you can do for yourself would be an accurate motto nowadays. 

Edited January 8 by marylander1940

[+ WilliamM]

2 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

"Cult of victimhood", "most selfish people in the world", "narcissistic", etc. 

Critical thinking has nothing to do with repeating the same "trigger phrases". 

I do agree with you that most people end up working in a field similar and sometimes different than what they studied. 

Unfortunately, the some want things to go back to the 50's where someone would get a job after high school, work there for 35 years and retire to a nice comfortable life as long as he was white and preferably not Jewish or catholic. 

The world has changed, it always changes, and we must adapt instead of blaming others for all of our problems. 

Ask now what your country can do for you... ask what you can do for yourself would be an accurate motto nowadays. 

If one lived in  Catholic Massachusetts, it was not a huge problem. I remember all the Jewish students I met in  Massachusetts, especially in Brookline, near Boston 

[+ WilliamM]

I was never interested in making a lot of money.  My minor course in college  was German history.  I wrote about Pope Pius XII  and his friendship  with the German leaders in World War Two and his lack of interest in Jewish people, especially in Europe.

 

When I finished I decided to go grad school