Deposits and when are they ok to ask for it?

[Phil Wagner]

So I’ve been running into a lot of people clients trying to book me but they live a state or two away. I ask them for a simple donation of $50 to insure that the booking is legit and not a waste of time and fake. I’ve gotten replies like, “I don’t send deposits anymore because I’ve been burnt too many times by previous guys who never showed up and just took my money” or “ I don’t feel comfortable sending money to someone I haven’t met yet.” I get it, but why should I be punished for other people’s miscues and their issues with other people that doesn’t involve me? If they were in my position they would ask the same thing. I mean who would drive states away without some kind of instance policy to make the appointment secure. Not to mention the travel costs. Am I doing something wrong by asking a client to put up $50 to make it legit? Can someone help me understand this….

[56harrisond]

Some deposit threads:

 

[BuffaloKyle]

2 hours ago, Phil Wagner said:

So I’ve been running into a lot of people clients trying to book me but they live a state or two away. I ask them for a simple donation of $50 to insure that the booking is legit and not a waste of time and fake. I’ve gotten replies like, “I don’t send deposits anymore because I’ve been burnt too many times by previous guys who never showed up and just took my money” or “ I don’t feel comfortable sending money to someone I haven’t met yet.” I get it, but why should I be punished for other people’s miscues and their issues with other people that doesn’t involve me? If they were in my position they would ask the same thing. I mean who would drive states away without some kind of instance policy to make the appointment secure. Not to mention the travel costs. Am I doing something wrong by asking a client to put up $50 to make it legit? Can someone help me understand this….

If someone is asking you to travel from out of state to visit them I don't know how they could even think you'll travel all that way with zero upfront payment. If this is a regular issue for you put right in your ad something like "If requesting an outcall and are further than 1 hour away this will require part of the donation to be sent beforehand to cover travel expenses".

[pubic_assistance]

2 hours ago, Phil Wagner said:

why should I be punished for other people’s miscues

Because that's how life works.

 

[bigdipper]

If a provider advertises or is upfront about requiring deposits, I’m ok with it. But I’ve encountered a couple providers that spring the need for a deposit a couple hours before an already confirmed appointment. That just rubs me the wrong way.

[Rudynate]

why does it matter?  If the deposit is in addition to what he's going to charge for the session, I can see why one would be upset.  But if the deposit is an advance of a portion of the agreed-on fee, why does it matter when it is paid? Everybody has credit cards, debit cards, paypal, venmo.  It doen't even need to be an inconvenience. The only reason I can see for somebody not liking it is that it's unequivocal proof that the provider doesn't fully trust you.   But it is a transaction, after all.

[Simon Suraci]

Here we go again. Please check the threads @56harrisond referenced. Deposits have been covered many, many, many times before in previous threads, even on threads that are not about deposits. @Phil Wagner check out the search function. That will shortcut you to all the best topics covering what you are asking about here, and you can contribute to those threads as well.

The short answer is: do whatever makes sense for your business. You don’t have to cave to what clients want or expect. If you get enough business from clients who conform to your policies, great. Be upfront with everyone, and when they say no, move on…and please don’t ever complain about not getting enough business as a result of your own business policy decisions.

OR take on clients without deposits at your own risk…and please don’t ever complain about flaky clients you engage as a result of your own business policy decisions.

There is no perfect solution that works for every client or provider. I recognize there is plenty of room for nuance, but I won’t get into it here. The big issue is whether to require deposits or not. How much, and under what circumstances, etc is just details. You choose what works for you and ignore others who insist on their way of doing things.

Either way, choose the best policies for your business and don’t complain. Take the compatible clients, weed out the incompatible clients. If your policies aren’t working out for you, change them, and stick consistently to them. Love long and prosper.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

Here we go again. Please check the threads @56harrisond referenced. Deposits have been covered many, many, many times before in previous threads, even on threads that are not about deposits. @Phil Wagner check out the search function. That will shortcut you to all the best topics covering what you are asking about here, and you can contribute to those threads as well.

The short answer is: do whatever makes sense for your business. You don’t have to cave to what clients want or expect. If you get enough business from clients who conform to your policies, great. Be upfront with everyone, and when they say no, move on…and please don’t ever complain about not getting enough business as a result of your own business policy decisions.

OR take on clients without deposits at your own risk…and please don’t ever complain about flaky clients you engage as a result of your own business policy decisions.

There is no perfect solution that works for every client or provider. I recognize there is plenty of room for nuance, but I won’t get into it here. The big issue is whether to require deposits or not. How much, and under what circumstances, etc is just details. You choose what works for you and ignore others who insist on their way of doing things.

Either way, choose the best policies for your business and don’t complain. Take the compatible clients, weed out the incompatible clients. If your policies aren’t working out for you, change them, and stick consistently to them. Love long and prosper.

 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Phil Wagner said:

So I’ve been running into a lot of people clients trying to book me but they live a state or two away. I ask them for a simple donation of $50 to insure that the booking is legit and not a waste of time and fake. I’ve gotten replies like, “I don’t send deposits anymore because I’ve been burnt too many times by previous guys who never showed up and just took my money” or “ I don’t feel comfortable sending money to someone I haven’t met yet.” I get it, but why should I be punished for other people’s miscues and their issues with other people that doesn’t involve me? If they were in my position they would ask the same thing. I mean who would drive states away without some kind of instance policy to make the appointment secure. Not to mention the travel costs. Am I doing something wrong by asking a client to put up $50 to make it legit? Can someone help me understand this….

It's OK to ask up-front for compensation for any costs involved in your getting to the client, unless they're insignificant. For example, the last time I hired an escort, I was attending a medical conference at the Rosemont Convention Center, staying at a hotel in Rosemont, Illinois (near O'Hare Airport). The escort lived near Boystown, so I did charge the Lyft ride to my account, and had him picked up (about $27 each way). The other situation is usually for long-term hires, such as a couple of escorts I hired to spend the week with me from Colombia to Puerto Vallarta. In those cases, I paid up-front for transportation to the airport, and their airfare, of course. 

I don't know what you mean by "a state or two away." It may not mean too far if you live in Rhode Island or Delaware, but here in Los Angeles that usually means air travel. If $50 is what you'd pay in gas to go there, then I agree that it would be foolish not to require that to be paid in advance. If the client can't find anyone closer to him, then you must be special to him, so he should pay, and I'd be wary if he won't. Significant up-front costs such as airfare or hotels should be pre-paid by the client. 

However, if you require deposits for local hires, you'll obviously lose a lot of customers. There are tons of scammers out there. If and escort or scammer gets money from Zelle or Venmo, or even by credit card, there's really no recourse if the scammer takes off with the money without doing anything. If a legal business doesn't deliver a good or service I paid for with a CC, I can dispute the charge. That won't apply for escorts. And of course, money sent by Zelle or Venmo is gone with the wind if the receiver takes off. Any business I pay with Zelle (housekeeper, handyman, appliance repairman, and so on) doesn't ask for money until the job is done, unless parts are needed first. In that case, I just pay for the parts up-front. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Unicorn

[+ DrownedBoy]

7 hours ago, bigdipper said:

If a provider advertises or is upfront about requiring deposits, I’m ok with it. But I’ve encountered a couple providers that spring the need for a deposit a couple hours before an already confirmed appointment. That just rubs me the wrong way.

That's not a request - it's a scam. When they pull that on me, I cancel immediately.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

20 hours ago, arnemgreeves said:

Depends on the escort in question. They should state such in their profiles. 

Some escorts do demand a deposit pre-session. Sure, they could be scammers, but more often than not it's reputable escorts who do this. 

You would surprised how many lookers DON’T read ads 🤦🏾‍♂️ like I literally have it in writing, in my ad and still get people talking about “cash only”. I even had to go as far as removing my number, and making sure they clicked my website and understood. I think some of the inquiries are just straight up scammers themselves because it’s like, how do people manage to contact me when my number is removed, and still act like they didn’t know I asked for a deposit?? 🤦🏾‍♂️ 

 

 

 

20 hours ago, BuffaloKyle said:

If someone is asking you to travel from out of state to visit them I don't know how they could even think you'll travel all that way with zero upfront payment. If this is a regular issue for you put right in your ad something like "If requesting an outcall and are further than 1 hour away this will require part of the donation to be sent beforehand to cover travel expenses".

You’d be surprised. Had a client last month in Columbus who wouldn’t even send a deposit for a $400 visit, even though he knew I had to travel from St. Louis and stop in Ohio to meet him, on my way to DC.

And the kicker is, he wanted me to host which means spending hotel money out of my pocket. But he was more than happy to write me a whole letter about how interested he was, and his prostate issues 🤦🏾‍♂️ 

People like that are the real scammers. All he has to do, is not show up: and I’m out of hotel money and possible other work. Luckily enough, I booked a different client in Cincinnati who did send a deposit.
 

15 hours ago, bigdipper said:

If a provider advertises or is upfront about requiring deposits, I’m ok with it. But I’ve encountered a couple providers that spring the need for a deposit a couple hours before an already confirmed appointment. That just rubs me the wrong way.

Maybe they do that because they don’t want to lose the client right up front. So they probably rather wait to see if they can get them to commit beforehand 

13 hours ago, Rudynate said:

why does it matter?  If the deposit is in addition to what he's going to charge for the session…

I agree except, even if someone did add the deposit: hotels do it all the time, and get away with it. (didn’t take long to find this and it’s just an example). 

 

Yet many guys expect us to travel to a city AND pay for a hotel, along with possible fees and deposits, before getting cash in hand. How is that fair (not questioning you, just the overall principle). 
 

So in some cases, the deposit could be added by an escort for that reason. How is it fair for a provider to spend $100-200-300 on a room, and then have that amount subtracted from their earning…Unless they are seeing multiple clients, which these days seems uncommon unless in the ideal market 🤷🏾‍♂️ 

 

 

10 hours ago, Unicorn said:

It's OK to ask up-front for compensation for any costs involved in your getting to the client, unless they're insignificant. For example, the last time I hired an escort, I was attending a medical conference at the Rosemont Convention Center, staying at a hotel in Rosemont, Illinois (near O'Hare Airport). The escort lived near Boystown, so I did charge the Lyft ride to my account, and had him picked up (about $27 each way). The other situation is usually for long-term hires, such as a couple of escorts I hired to spend the week with me from Colombia to Puerto Vallarta. In those cases, I paid up-front for transportation to the airport, and their airfare, of course. 

I don't know what you mean by "a state or two away." It may not mean too far if you live in Rhode Island or Delaware, but here in Los Angeles that usually means air travel. If $50 is what you'd pay in gas to go there, then I agree that it would be foolish not to require that to be paid in advance. If the client can't find anyone closer to him, then you must be special to him, so he should pay, and I'd be wary if he won't. Significant up-front costs such as airfare or hotels should be pre-paid by the client. 

However, if you require deposits for local hires, you'll obviously lose a lot of customers. There are tons of scammers out there. If and escort or scammer gets money from Zelle or Venmo, or even by credit card, there's really no recourse if the scammer takes off with the money without doing anything. If a legal business doesn't deliver a good or service I paid for with a CC, I can dispute the charge. That won't apply for escorts. And of course, money sent by Zelle or Venmo is gone with the wind if the receiver takes off. Any business I pay with Zelle (housekeeper, handyman, appliance repairman, and so on) doesn't ask for money until the job is done, unless parts are needed first. In that case, I just pay for the parts up-front. 

Bingo, 100%…

and people and clients need to just understand: IT IS NOT FREE TO BE AN ESCORT. Sometimes I just want to tell “cash only” guys, “take that cash and shove it up your ass”. However I know that would be unprofessional and rude, but it’s just the principle.

People can’t reasonably expect that a provider is going to always be willing to shoulder the full burden of risk: commuting and/or booking accommodations on the “hope” that the client will show up and they’ll make back their expenses. 
 

The escort is generally the person with the greater need for money. A client may not want to be scammed and lose $50-$100, but an escort stands the chance of losing hotel ($75-$250 on average) plus, PLUS…PLUSSSSS, the payment from the client AND from potential other client. 
 

So a cancelled/flaked session may cost an escort $90 hypothetical hotel+ $300 hypothetical rate = $390. At a Loss. What escort is asking for a $390 deposit to cover that potential loss?
 

Every time I think about stopping deposits, someone does something else to make me keep asking them. Someone who can’t understand why a provider with a website, multiple good reviews, established in the biz for years is asking for a deposit: the person is a scammer, potential scammer, or likely scammed a provider in the past. I even had a regular who was anti-deposit, he admitted to booking a popular provider for two hours, who was visiting Kansas City and cancelled on him to see me instead. I told him, I appreciate it but: I don’t normally condone stiffing another provider. 

It’s 2023. Things change. Businesses change. People used to pay cash to cabs: look at Uber and Lyft. Clients who can’t get with the program are going to frustrate a lot of providers, and be using their own right or left hand (or mouth if they can get that far 😆 

And for providers who take deposits and don’t show: that can happen with or without deposit. I have seen/heard escorts scam clients right before their eyes, even with cash. If someone really wanted to rip a client off, they could take your cash and gun you down or have someone ready to jump out the other room or closet. So it’s no fool proof method for not being ripped off. The whole concept about not sending a deposit being safer, is just ludicrous and ignorant. The opposite is true. 
 

If they wouldn’t walk around with cash normally for safety, they shouldn’t use cash as a safety mechanism because they “been scammed before”. I should say, “well I been robbed before so, I don’t walk around with cash, you need to pay with etc etc”

I think people who say that anyway are just full of crap and won’t show anyway. They know they’re playing games, they aren’t fooling me or anybody else with the nonsense paranoia. 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[acks0104]

As a client, I wouldn't pay a deposit for an in call, but honestly for an outcall where the provider has to drive an hour or more, it definitely makes sense to provide some kind of compensation. I think your best bet is to let them know that up front if you're traveling.

 

"Hi there, I'd be happy to do an out call at your location but do request an up front travel fee of _____. Please let me know if that works for you." 

 

If they say no, move on. If yes, then you're good to go.

[Guest]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... IF I decide to respond to somebody who I've never met that didn't keep their commitment. ( yes I store ALL the FLAKES because they will always reach out again and again  ) 99% of the time I will not respond however if I do I might remind them that I recall them not keeping their commitment and if they would like to see me, I would require not just a deposit but the full payment upfront before I saw them..... if they do or  don't it's still win win for me because they either pay it or they leave me alone.... many have agreed and we've never spoken about the unreliable behavior.... that's really the only time I've ever asked for a deposit or to be paid in full prior to "spending time" other than that I don't bother asking for a deposit. People aren't wild about deposits because of the hustlers who've been disingenuous,  untrustworthy, who have taken advantage of people and burned people. I believe there are two types who might require deposits... those that really need the business and those that do not. This is all coming from my own experience over the years and my methods might not work for everyone but I waste very little energy with unreliable folks. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Vin_Marco

[Jarrod_Uncut]

19 hours ago, Phil Wagner said:

So I’ve been running into a lot of people clients trying to book me but they live a state or two away. I ask them for a simple donation of $50 to insure that the booking is legit and not a waste of time and fake. I’ve gotten replies like, “I don’t send deposits anymore because I’ve been burnt too many times by previous guys who never showed up and just took my money” or “ I don’t feel comfortable sending money to someone I haven’t met yet.” I get it, but why should I be punished for other people’s miscues and their issues with other people that doesn’t involve me? If they were in my position they would ask the same thing. I mean who would drive states away without some kind of instance policy to make the appointment secure. Not to mention the travel costs. Am I doing something wrong by asking a client to put up $50 to make it legit? Can someone help me understand this….

I wish I could help you understand this but the only understanding is, they’re cheap. 1 or 2 guys scammed them, with 0 reviews and probably didn’t even show their face, just a dick sitting on a toilet, and now every provider on RentMen is a scam.

They want to sit back and let you do all the work for them, while you give them the “option” to keep (or not) their end of the arrangement. 

What I would say each time someone says what you said is: “I’ve also been burned and scammed as well, and I pay $79+ a month to advertise on the site you viewed me on. If you’re not able to pay the deposit, you’ll have to pay/book the hotel and travel for me.”
 

Or if they are local add: if you cancel and I meet without a deposit, there’s a $75 cancellation fee you’ll need to bring to me. Watch the flakes run for the 🏜️ or watch them meet you in  a parking lot and bring the money.

But I got tired of fighting and bill collecting from clients like that. It’s too stressful, and ruins the relationship (that was never had because they never made it to first base in the first place). Rather just get deposit ahead and if something comes up, at least I get something for my effort.

9 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

please don’t ever complain about not getting enough business as a result of your own business policy decisions.

OR take on clients without deposits at your own risk…and please don’t ever complain about flaky clients you engage as a result of your own business policy decisions.

 

I agree up to the extent that it almost sounds like the “if you don’t vote…you can’t complain”. I guess if you do vote and don’t win, you can do what a certain group of people, who thought a certain political figure “told them” to do, I guess 🤷🏾‍♂️ 

I don’t think there’s an answer to/not to complain. The ultimatums presented don’t really give much solace to the fact that: as you said, there’s a risk in both. Taking deposits may take a hit to one’s income , not taking deposits may mean being stranded or out $400. Non of that is something someone “shouldn’t” complain about.

I think instead of playing devil’s advocate, we can talk about what are some ways a client can properly verify a provider before sending deposit and/or get money back from someone IF and only IF, they didn’t show and out right ghosted. 
 

Or we can talk about why clients shouldn’t be flaky, educate them on how to arrange bookings and not fear providers asking for a deposit. Perhaps educate providers on WHEN it’s necessary to take a deposit, so they can avoid being stiffed or stood up. 

If a provider is spending money to host a client (hotel/air bnb): get a deposit. Doesn’t matter if it’s an incall or if other clients booked that day. 
 

If you’re traveling a distance that could be inconvenient if a client cancels, get a deposit too. Trust and believe when I say; every situation you can name: I’ve had it happen. Every situation. All of the above. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Vin_Marco said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again.... IF I decide to respond to somebody who I've never met that didn't keep their commitment. ( yes I store ALL the FLAKES because they will always reach out again and again  ) 99% of the time I will not respond however if I do I might remind them that I recall them not keeping their commitment and if they would like to see me, I would require not just a deposit but the full payment upfront before I saw them..... if they do or  don't it's still win win for me because they either pay it or they leave me alone.... many have agreed and we've never spoken about the unreliable behavior.... that's really the only time I've ever asked for a deposit or to be paid in full prior to "spending time" other than that I don't bother asking for a deposit. People aren't wild about deposits because of the hustlers who've been disingenuous,  untrustworthy, who have taken advantage of people and burned people. I believe there are two types who might require deposits... those that really need the business and those that do not. This is all coming from my own experience over the years and my methods might not work for everyone but I waste very little energy with unreliable folks. 

Perspective 😎

 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

2 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

FLAKES will always reach out again and again

 

facts 🤦🏾‍♂️ 

[Jamie21]

I love it when flakes reach out again, sometimes years later. They’ve forgotten but I haven’t (yes like @Vin_Marco I also keep the records!). All the same red flag signals are there in the message too…do they never change?

I string along the chat for a bit if I’m bored, and just in case they are genuine. Then when and if it gets to confirming a booking I say “when you last booked you didn’t turn up / you messaged last minute saying you couldn’t make it etc so on this occasion I need full payment in advance please”.

At that point they usually either go quiet, or come up with some reason to say they aren’t quite ready to book but they ‘definitely intend to’. Then I don’t hear from them for another year or so until they come across my profile again…

I know the signs of a flake, they’re so obvious. Most of them never get to actually book because I’ve screened them out. If they do book a session I always do a check in with them 24 hours before the sessions and if they don’t confirm at that point it’s cancelled and I don’t make any commitments for it. I don’t do last minute bookings unless I’m already at the venue and it’s immediately following another client. If they don’t turn up then I’ve lost nothing. Last minute late evening bookers are usually flaky. 

For my modus operandi a deposit is not necessary. I don’t travel out of my home city, out calls are at the client’s hotel or home, and for in calls if the client doesn’t show up I don’t incur cost. I do agree to front up cost (for a few clients I pay for the hotel or venue)  for trusted regulars and I just include the costs in my rate. 

Here’s the crux of it: I think those ‘clients’ who think all sex work is somehow low rent and done by people who are desperate are the ones who are most likely to flake. If you appear like this in how you run your business then they’ll definitely try to take advantage of you.

However if you present and take a professional approach to the work (which in my view it 100% deserves) then you will attract respectable clients who will be reliable. Those clients are the best and they become regular. Run things professionally, have a consistent business model (including deposits if necessary), communicate properly and business like, have clear pricing and policies about what you do, be on time. All these things tell the client that they’re dealing with someone reliable and it makes you much less likely to be treated badly. You’re doing a job most people simply can’t do, so know your value and don’t let anyone disrespect that. 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jamie21 said:

I love it when flakes reach out again, sometimes years later. They’ve forgotten but I haven’t (yes like @Vin_Marco I also keep the records!). All the same red flag signals are there in the message too…do they never change?

I string along the chat for a bit if I’m bored, and just in case they are genuine. Then when and if it gets to confirming a booking I say “when you last booked you didn’t turn up / you messaged last minute saying you couldn’t make it etc so on this occasion I need full payment in advance please”.

At that point they usually either go quiet, or come up with some reason to say they aren’t quite ready to book but they ‘definitely intend to’. Then I don’t hear from them for another year or so until they come across my profile again…

I know the signs of a flake, they’re so obvious. Most of them never get to actually book because I’ve screened them out. If they do book a session I always do a check in with them 24 hours before the sessions and if they don’t confirm at that point it’s cancelled and I don’t make any commitments for it. I don’t do last minute bookings unless I’m already at the venue and it’s immediately following another client. If they don’t turn up then I’ve lost nothing. Last minute late evening bookers are usually flaky. 

For my modus operandi a deposit is not necessary. I don’t travel out of my home city, out calls are at the client’s hotel or home, and for in calls if the client doesn’t show up I don’t incur cost. I do agree to front up cost (for a few clients I pay for the hotel or venue)  for trusted regulars and I just include the costs in my rate. 

Here’s the crux of it: I think those ‘clients’ who think all sex work is somehow low rent and done by people who are desperate are the ones who are most likely to flake. If you appear like this in how you run your business then they’ll definitely try to take advantage of you.

However if you present and take a professional approach to the work (which in my view it 100% deserves) then you will attract respectable clients who will be reliable. Those clients are the best and they become regular. Run things professionally, have a consistent business model (including deposits if necessary), communicate properly and business like, have clear pricing and policies about what you do, be on time. All these things tell the client that they’re dealing with someone reliable and it makes you much less likely to be treated badly. You’re doing a job most people simply can’t do, so know your value and don’t let anyone disrespect that. 

 

100% Not only true but put beautifully! @Jamie21

[soloyo215]

On 10/17/2023 at 3:12 AM, Phil Wagner said:

So I’ve been running into a lot of people clients trying to book me but they live a state or two away. I ask them for a simple donation of $50 to insure that the booking is legit and not a waste of time and fake. I’ve gotten replies like, “I don’t send deposits anymore because I’ve been burnt too many times by previous guys who never showed up and just took my money” or “ I don’t feel comfortable sending money to someone I haven’t met yet.” I get it, but why should I be punished for other people’s miscues and their issues with other people that doesn’t involve me? If they were in my position they would ask the same thing. I mean who would drive states away without some kind of instance policy to make the appointment secure. Not to mention the travel costs. Am I doing something wrong by asking a client to put up $50 to make it legit? Can someone help me understand this….

My two cents: I have seen an immense amount of discussions about the deposit thing. The thing is that there is risk on both sides regarding  the money part. Clients have gotten ripped off, and providers have gotten ripped off. I don't think that there is an definite answer or course of action that can be satisfactory for both the client and the provider, so a "hram-reduction" approach might be more suitable. My suggestion will be, as others have mentioned, if the request involves additional expenses, such as traveling and more time, a deposit seems fair to ask. If you prefer a deposit in every booking, the way you communicate it to the client might influence their agreeing or disagreeing. Probably showing undertanding of people being ripped off in the past might help the client see that not all providers have that intention (of getting something for nothing). I'd remove the [somewhat] victim mindset ("...why should I be punished for other people’s miscues and their issues with other people that doesn’t involve me"). That seems to deny your clientele and where they come from. What they have to say matters, and at the end of the day, they do have to protect their money.

As a client, when I'm asked for a deposit, I immediatelly see it as a potential red flag, but I keep the conversation going to get a sense of the level of money safety I'm dealing with. It's always going to be a risk for all parties involved.

[Simon Suraci]

5 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

For my modus operandi a deposit is not necessary. I don’t travel out of my home city, out calls are at the client’s hotel or home, and for in calls if the client doesn’t show up I don’t incur cost.

This is how I operate too, and why I almost never charge deposits either. When a client flakes, I only lose the time I spent waiting for them, and potentially another booking I had to turn down because the flake client occupied a slot on my calendar. 

IF I agree to travel to a city an hour or more away (and that’s a big IF), I would request a travel deposit up front, or at least charge the client a travel fee, even if it’s in the total and not in the form of a deposit paid in advance.

If there is air travel involved or the client is multiple driving hours away, I would absolutely require a sizable deposit in advance to cover flights, gas, etc. I arrange my own travel. I don’t allow clients book flights or accommodations on my behalf. That way I can control cancellations, refunds, and rebooking things if necessary.

For outcalls in my local area, I have a new policy: I only travel for clients booking services totaling $300 or more. I don’t charge a travel fee or deposit, but the total fee makes it worth my while to travel.

For massage outcalls, I spend extra time setting up and taking down, which is unpaid, by the way, along with travel time in both directions, and gas, and most clients don’t appreciate ANY of this. The higher total fee incentivizes me to give away all this time for free. Also, I refuse the booking if the client doesn’t have space for my massage table and room to move freely around it (approx 9’x12’ clear area)

My new policy means any of the following, that the client is:

1) Hiring me for outcall escort service. The client is owning that, and not trying to pretend they’re only getting a massage and then demanding full service on their own turf for the price of a massage. This is all too common 🙄 

2) Hiring me for couples massage. For example, I massage one partner for an hour for $150, followed by the second partner for an hour for $150. I did this just the other day and the couple loved it.

3) Hiring any combination of multiple services totaling $300 or more.

4) Not getting a bed massage. I don’t do this. I can’t give a proper massage on a bed, and calling it a “massage” doesn’t change what the client really wants and expects. The client needs to hire me for escort service in that case, and pay the respective rate for it.

I totally understand why others charge deposits. When you’re on the road traveling far to a client, spending money on accommodations, and taking only 1 client a day, or 2 at the most, it makes total sense. Personally, I couldn’t make that business model profitable for me, even if every client showed up and paid me my rate. So I don’t run my business that way. More power to providers who can make business sense of it and profit enough to keep going.

When I do tours, it’s to places I know the local demand will fill my days with multiple appointments, and I only accept incalls where I am staying, with very few exceptions. I think I did one outcall for one client out of a whole month of a multi-city tour.

Outside of the cases I mentioned, I stick to incall appointments in my home city. That is a profitable business model for me. This model allows me to not have to rely on deposits and travel fee requests to run my business well.

There are many ways to do business. I suggest each provider find the right one for him. If your business relies heavily on deposits, I stand by the comment about not complaining. You have the power to change how your business operates so that you don’t have to rely so much on deposits. If the deposit policy works well for you on the whole, there is no reason to complain. If it doesn’t work well for you, I suggest changing your business model. If you don’t want to change your business model, by all means, keep throwing punches into the wind! But don’t complain when you’re not hitting anything.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

On 10/17/2023 at 9:43 AM, Rudynate said:

Everybody has credit cards, debit cards, paypal, venmo. 

There's still about a quarter of the U.S. population that is "unbaked", meaning no credit cards, debit cards, etc.  It might be more or less in different cities.

During 2020 I stopped using credit cards and now only pay with cash.  My life has become so much simpler going cash only.  I have more money left over to spend each month because it is psychologically easier to overspend with a swipe of a card or tap of a telephone.

Back on topic:   I would not ask an escort to travel 50 miles to see me for a first meeting.  The escort has too much to lose.  Instead, I would offer to travel to him.

[BuffaloKyle]

17 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

During 2020 I stopped using credit cards and now only pay with cash.  My life has become so much simpler going cash only.  I have more money left over to spend each month because it is psychologically easier to overspend with a swipe of a card or tap of a telephone.

A lot of places stopped taking cash though after the pandemic. The sporting arenas by me are now cashless payments only & our county fair was cashless. I did switch to a higher cash back credit card to take advantage. I use it for everything. It helps in that regard to get more money back on my purchases.

[Rudynate]

54 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

There's still about a quarter of the U.S. population that is "unbaked", meaning no credit cards, debit cards, etc.  It might be more or less in different cities.

During 2020 I stopped using credit cards and now only pay with cash.  My life has become so much simpler going cash only.  I have more money left over to spend each month because it is psychologically easier to overspend with a swipe of a card or tap of a telephone.

Back on topic:   I would not ask an escort to travel 50 miles to see me for a first meeting.  The escort has too much to lose.  Instead, I would offer to travel to him.

I achieve something similar.  I have one credit card that I rarely use.  I have debit cards for personal expenses and business expenses.  Because the debit card represents real money in one of my accounts, I'm careful about how I use it. I'm thinking of shit-canning the credit card. It was issued by a credit union and I have used it with no problems for 25 years.  The credit union just suscribed with a new fraud control outfit and I had three transactions declined in a day.

[Jamie21]

3 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

4) Not getting a bed massage. I don’t do this. I can’t give a proper massage on a bed, and calling it a “massage” doesn’t change what the client really wants and expects. The client needs to hire me for escort service in that case, and pay the respective rate for it.

This is an interesting point. I agree a table massage is better but I don’t require clients to have it on the table. Often if I do an out call in London either the client’s hotel room isn’t big enough or it’s not possible for me to get my table there (as in there’s nowhere to park). So I’m fine to use the bed if the client is because otherwise he’d not be able to go ahead (assuming he can’t make my studio). 

I agree that a bed massage is more likely to develop into an escort style session than if a table is used, but I think that’s up to me to manage. 
 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

... I don’t allow clients book flights or accommodations on my behalf. That way I can control cancellations, refunds, and rebooking things if necessary...

I agree with most of what you say. However, I would never up-front a chunk of cash and tell the escort he can make his own arrangements. It's too easy for the escort to take the money and run, so I would advise other clients against being OK with such a practice. I'll put in on my card, or, more commonly, use my miles to get the air ticket. Otherwise, the escort might claim some "family emergency" at the last minute and keep the dough.