Deposits and when are they ok to ask for it?

[Simon Suraci]

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

I would never up-front a chunk of cash and tell the escort he can make his own arrangements.

I hear you on that point @Unicorn. If I were a client hiring a provider for the first time, I wouldn’t do it. Usually in this situation the client and provider have more than one successful meet prior to establish rapports and trust. That makes a big difference.

When a new client really wants me, and for me to travel far away for them, and they demonstrate their seriousness by taking a risk to pony up, I do it for those clients. The rest I turn down because the risk is not worth it to me. I take a much more generous approach with long established clients I trust.

In my experience, the further the client is and the longer they want to hire me for, the more likely it is that they will cancel, often the day before or even the day-of. That’s the biggest reason why I won’t risk my time and $ for a first time client far away.

Also, I prefer to make my own arrangements for privacy and security reasons. Handing over all my personal information to someone I don’t know is bonkers to me.

Any other providers with more experience in long distance travel hires? I’d love to hear your perspectives and policies. 

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

...Handing over all my personal information to someone I don’t know is bonkers to me...

So people will actually fork over a wad of cash to you without even knowing your real name? I would never make that kind of commitment to someone unless we had enough rapport to share each others' personal data. I've taken a lot of men on trips/extended hires. Yes, it's all men I've known from either a private hire, or from seeking arrangements (such as the Colombian men). I wouldn't expect them to say yes without knowing who I am, and I can't imagine forking out big $$ for a trip with a man whose real name I don't even know. That seems a bit crazy, foolish, and embarrassing. 😲

[Simon Suraci]

21 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

I don’t think there’s an answer to/not to complain. The ultimatums presented don’t really give much solace to the fact that: as you said, there’s a risk in both.

We providers can’t have it all our way. We can’t eliminate risk. Correct, there is no solace in that. It’s not all bleak though. When things don’t go my way, I don’t blame the system or demand the system conform to my expectations, however reasonable those expectations may be. Rather, I try my best to reduce risk rather than eliminate it.

In an ideal world, our profession would be legal and all clients would either a) be willing to pay deposits or b) show up and fulfill their commitments without deposits. We do not live in that world. We can’t change human nature or force the nature of hiring to work that way. 

Our expectations are reasonable, but clients are often unreasonable. Maybe moreso in your market, but it’s a problem everywhere. It’s not fair, but the system works that way. Legalization would certainly help change the dynamic, but we are very far from that in the US.

I hear you want to create a more favorable hiring world for us by educating clients. I think you’re an idealist in that sense, whereas I am a realist and a pragmatist. I accept the world as it is and make the best decisions I can to work with it rather than against it. 

Try as we may, our efforts only go so far. We shouldn’t give up doing important work to change hearts and minds on forums like this and elsewhere. However, our conversations won’t change the whole system.

There will always be a majority (or significant percentage) of clients that will never pay deposits under any circumstances, and there will always be some percentage of flakes when we don’t require deposits. There’s no getting around that. Complaining about people being dickheads doesn’t advance our cause or earn us any more money. It doesn’t change the world in which we live. The dickheads will continue to be dickheads.

We can’t control how people behave, but we can control how we run our businesses. When we find the right systems and policies that work for us, the right people find us and hire us. The rest fall away. Weigh the pros and cons and make decisions that work for you.

When things don’t go your way, you can either consider it a cost/risk of doing business and cope, or decide the cost/risk is too great. If you land on the latter, consider changing your approach and policies to reduce risk. There is always some level of risk in doing what we do. Find your level of risk tolerance and let the rest go. We can’t win every bet, but we can arrange the game (i.e. business model, business decisions) to favor the house.

It’s a matter of weighing which options work better for you. You could:

1) require deposits and accept the fact that your pool of potential clients is going to be much smaller…and you’re ok with that and don’t complain about the consequences of your own choices.

2) don’t require deposits and you accept the fact that some clients are going to flake…and when they do, you don’t complain about the consequences of your own choices.

3) figure out some other risk mitigation strategies you haven’t explored yet. At least be willing to try something different if you want different outcomes.

4) complain when the world doesn’t work the way you want it to and continue to do business as usual.

5) expect, ask, hope, beg, and try to convince the world to change and then continue to be upset when it doesn’t.

6) is there an option I’m missing?

The way I do things will not be the right solution for everyone else, but here’s my approach for reference. I choose the no deposit path, but I also make other business decisions to support that one, like not being on the road all the time, and being strategic about trips when I do travel, among other things. I set up the game to favor the house. At the end of the day, I lose some, but I win more than I lose, and I’m successful because of the decisions I made. I don’t complain when I lose. I move on and focus on the majority wins. When there are not enough consistent wins to outweigh the losses, I change strategies until I find the right mix to favor the house. 

If you want ideas and are actually open to implementing them, ask. You have a lot of smart, helpful, compassionate people here who care about you and your success.

[Simon Suraci]

4 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I would never make that kind of commitment to someone unless we had enough rapport to share each others' personal data.

That’s what I am saying. I AGREE with you. The policy is for first time clients who want to hire me anyway.

[Simon Suraci]

Regarding the personal data comment@Unicorn mentioned, I don’t need everyone knowing my middle name. I’m sure many clients would feel the same way if the positions were switched.

The date of birth item I don’t care about since I use my real one to match what I  advertise. Other hired guys frequently age shave, sometimes by a lot, and I’m sure many of them wouldn’t want to share this info with their clients - in particular new clients they’ve never met before.

I am a registered known traveler, which helps me get me through security faster at most domestic airports. I use a Known Traveler Number when I book air travel, which, in the wrong hands, could be used to hack for lots of other information.

How would you clients feel if I were booking travel for you? Would you feel comfortable sharing your information with me? I know that’s not how it works, but the same concerns you might have about sharing your information apply in the reverse.

Clients use assumed names, share inaccurate ages, and other fabricated info with me all the time. I know their real names and ages through various means, but I don’t let on because I want them to feel comfortable. I would never do something to violate their privacy or discretion because I have a lot to lose by doing so. A client, however, has very little to lose by doing the same to me.

By the way, I seek out client information firstly for personal safety and secondly to get a sense of whether the client is reliable. The rest I don’t care about. I’m not going to shame someone or blackmail them or anything like that.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Simon Suraci
Changed “they’re” to “their”

[+ Pensant]

18 hours ago, Rudynate said:

I have debit cards for personal expenses and business expenses. 

Aren’t debit cards much more susceptible to hacking? There’s no recourse if there’s a dispute, unlike credit cards. I only use mine for ATM purposes.

[+ Pensant]

I’d say less than 5% of providers have ever asked for a deposit. In two cases, I sent $50 and both flaked. One always pings me when he’s in my area and offers a discount, but you know the old adage! Once I paid airfare for a little blondie with whom I had a hot time in the past, also with a prepaid flight. He never showed, so I just shrugged and decided never to do that again. Small risks in retrospect compared to all of the delightful experiences over the years!

[Rudynate]

3 hours ago, Pensant said:

Aren’t debit cards much more susceptible to hacking? There’s no recourse if there’s a dispute, unlike credit cards. I only use mine for ATM purposes.

I don't know - mine get hacked from time to time, but my husband uses credit cards and his get hacked way more than my debit cards do.  My bank's fraud algorithm is outstanding - it rarely misses a spurious charge and hardly ever has false positives.  Im very careful with the card for my business because it's really a pain if I have  to block the card. I also have two paypal accounts - business and personal and I use venmo to pay quite a bit on the personal card. Providers don't seem to like venmo.

[Rudynate]

On 10/17/2023 at 12:12 AM, Phil Wagner said:

So I’ve been running into a lot of people clients trying to book me but they live a state or two away. I ask them for a simple donation of $50 to insure that the booking is legit and not a waste of time and fake. I’ve gotten replies like, “I don’t send deposits anymore because I’ve been burnt too many times by previous guys who never showed up and just took my money” or “ I don’t feel comfortable sending money to someone I haven’t met yet.” I get it, but why should I be punished for other people’s miscues and their issues with other people that doesn’t involve me? If they were in my position they would ask the same thing. I mean who would drive states away without some kind of instance policy to make the appointment secure. Not to mention the travel costs. Am I doing something wrong by asking a client to put up $50 to make it legit? Can someone help me understand this….

It's a business decision - if the cost/benefit analysis is favorable, keep doing it. If it isn't, figure out something else.

[+ ThroatCummer]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:38 PM, BuffaloKyle said:

A lot of places stopped taking cash though after the pandemic. The sporting arenas by me are now cashless payments only & our county fair was cashless.

I have a semi off-topic story here but it is hilarious. I think it was Dodger Stadium that did this right away but didn't completely think it through. 

No more ordering at lines at stands. You order your beer and food on your phone, it gives you a QR code, you walk up and show it, and they give you your food and beer. But they weren't scanning the QR codes just looking at them and asking you what you had. You said "two beers, two hot dogs, and popcorn" and they would give it to you and you walk away. 

Inning #3, repeat with same QR code for 2x more beers. Inning #4, repeat. You were just showing the same QR code from the first order but asking for whatever you wanted and they handed it over. You get the idea. 

Someone in the back office after like 2 or 3 games was like WOOOAHHHHHH. The inventory of hot dogs and beers was -100,000 but they only sold 1,000 of each. LOL. 

Lesson: People will find a way to get something for free. every. single. time. 

Okay, maybe it is on-topic after all. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by ThroatCummer

[+ Pensant]

21 hours ago, Rudynate said:

Providers don't seem to like venmo.

Agreed. They like cash or CashApp.

[Rudynate]

21 hours ago, ThroatCummer said:

I have a semi off-topic story here but it is hilarious. I think it was Dodger Stadium that did this right away but didn't completely think it through. 

No more ordering at lines at stands. You order your beer and food on your phone, it gives you a QR code, you walk up and show it, and they give you your food and beer. But they weren't scanning the QR codes just looking at them and asking you what you had. You said "two beers, two hot dogs, and popcorn" and they would give it to you and you walk away. 

Inning #3, repeat with same QR code for 2x more beers. Inning #4, repeat. You were just showing the same QR code from the first order but asking for whatever you wanted and they handed it over. You get the idea. 

Someone in the back office after like 2 or 3 games was like WOOOAHHHHHH. The inventory of hot dogs and beers was -100,000 but they only sold 1,000 of each. LOL. 

Lesson: People will find a way to get something for free. every. single. time. 

Okay, maybe it is on-topic after all. 

Manufacturing engineers know that no process is perfect straight out of the box. 

[ncc1701d]

This just happened to me today. I started a conversation with a provider. He wasn't very responsive (the initial text took 2 days to get a response). When he said that he was not that close to where I will be (even though he is listed under that city on RM), he asked for deposit. I have a rule of no deposit. So i thank him for his time and said I'll pass as I'm not comfortable providing deposit. This got me a 2 screens worth of text wishing me a bad day and why he with so many great reviews on RM should get a deposit if he is to travel (which would be a drive of under 1 hr). 

I'm totally ok with provider deciding what to do with their business, but please also respect my right to choose not to do what i'm not comfortable doing. There is no need to berate a person you have never even met about this. 

I'm also grateful that i dodge this bullet....if that's how he treats a perfect stranger who has only sent him 2 text message to inquire, then the session was unlikely to be a good one. Onwards and upwards to find some other nicer ones.....

[Jarrod_Uncut]

2 hours ago, ncc1701d said:

This just happened to me today. I started a conversation with a provider. He wasn't very responsive (the initial text took 2 days to get a response). When he said that he was not that close to where I will be (even though he is listed under that city on RM), he asked for deposit. I have a rule of no deposit. So i thank him for his time and said I'll pass as I'm not comfortable providing deposit. This got me a 2 screens worth of text wishing me a bad day and why he with so many great reviews on RM should get a deposit if he is to travel (which would be a drive of under 1 hr). 

I'm totally ok with provider deciding what to do with their business, but please also respect my right to choose not to do what i'm not comfortable doing. There is no need to berate a person you have never even met about this. 

I'm also grateful that i dodge this bullet....if that's how he treats a perfect stranger who has only sent him 2 text message to inquire, then the session was unlikely to be a good one. Onwards and upwards to find some other nicer ones.....

That’s disheartening for sure. I don’t think it’s necessary to beat someone up over not willing to do a deposit. I could see where someone may want to defend their choice, or perhaps reference reviews to show that others have done so. 

But part of doing so is letting people know: it’s not a choice or something to be argued over. It’s a way of doing biz that works for me, regardless of how uncomfortable it may be for some clients. I know it’s more uncomfortable driving somewhere, and the client cancels mid-trip. I know it’s more uncomfortable booking a hotel room, and having people cancel and being unable to get a refund. 

On my most recent trip, I had 3 clients all send a deposit. Only one who didn’t, was someone I met before, however I almost wanted to because he lived about an hour away (and 6 hours  from where I actually reside) Except he hasn’t done flaky things yet, and I also reached back out to him first so I was open to be flexible.

[jeezifonly]

Any vendor of goods or services is free to set the terms of sale.

Any customer finding the offered terms-of-sale not to his liking can say “no thanks” and procure said goods and services through another more customer-friendly vendor. 

Capitalism depends on competition. Gotta have a gimmick. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

8 hours ago, jeezifonly said:

Any vendor of goods or services is free to set the terms of sale.

Any customer finding the offered terms-of-sale not to his liking can say “no thanks” and procure said goods and services through another more customer-friendly vendor. 

Capitalism depends on competition. Gotta have a gimmick.

Well asking a deposit shouldn’t be any less customer friendly than not asking for one. That should be fairly irrelevant. Besides I always say, if someone is going to pay anyway…what’s the issue? Assuming it’s not a scam but a verified, reputable provider with reviews and longevity. 
 

That said, this month alone I’ve had 3 clients who have sent deposits, and bailed on the booking. Thanks but, I’m not about to sit around and listen to people harp on about an escort scamming someone out of a deposit. If anything some people are scamming themselves out of a deposit 🤷🏾‍♂️ 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

On 11/16/2023 at 4:32 AM, ncc1701d said:

. He wasn't very responsive (the initial text took 2 days to get a response). When he said that he was not that close to where I will be (even though he is listed under that city on RM),

this happens a lot - providers posting ads in a city where they aren’t located and have no plans to go there.  And a delayed response of a day or more is also common.

the guys posting in other cities may be just to gauge client interest for a possible future trip.  Or, they just want the inquires to build a bigger list of contacts.  And I suppose some could be doing it in hopes of getting a deposit as a scam.  

On 11/16/2023 at 4:32 AM, ncc1701d said:

.if that's how he treats a perfect stranger who has only sent him 2 text message to inquire, then the session was unlikely to be a good one

an inquiry about availability, rate & location is not an obligation to schedule an appointment.  And I don’t think it requires any explanation if the client decides not to book.  I’ve decided not to book some providers after an initial inquiry just based on providers attitude & tone in the text.  If the rate is more than I want to pay, I respect the providers rate & don’t want to get into a bargaining session.  
A simple thank you is all that’s required if something in the providers response causes a client not to schedule.

If the text exchange inquiry is more than 1 or 2 texts from client, then an explanation is appropriate because now the client is wasting providers time. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[Arab]

It depends on your financial availability. Every provider I've seen so far asked for a security deposit

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Arab said:

It depends on your financial availability. Every provider I've seen so far asked for a security deposit

You joined the forum 18 minutes ago.............

welcome to the company of men

[jeezifonly]

13 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Thanks but, I’m not about to sit around and listen to people harp on about an escort scamming someone out of a deposit. If anything some people are scamming themselves out of a deposit 🤷🏾‍♂️ 

So, you stand while writing the pamphlets posted here? 
😂

[+ BobPS]

1 hour ago, Arab said:

It depends on your financial availability. Every provider I've seen so far asked for a security deposit

Really?? I’ve never been asked for a deposit.

[+ purplekow]

On 10/17/2023 at 3:12 AM, Phil Wagner said:

So I’ve been running into a lot of people clients trying to book me but they live a state or two away. I ask them for a simple donation of $50 to insure that the booking is legit and not a waste of time and fake. I’ve gotten replies like, “I don’t send deposits anymore because I’ve been burnt too many times by previous guys who never showed up and just took my money” or “ I don’t feel comfortable sending money to someone I haven’t met yet.” I get it, but why should I be punished for other people’s miscues and their issues with other people that doesn’t involve me? If they were in my position they would ask the same thing. I mean who would drive states away without some kind of instance policy to make the appointment secure. Not to mention the travel costs. Am I doing something wrong by asking a client to put up $50 to make it legit? Can someone help me understand this….

You assume the risk of a no show client because clients are afraid of no show escorts.  If you are not satisfied with that risk, don't take it and don't book the appointment.   Two states away seems a bit of a risky booking in any case.   You might try asking them to come to you.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

10 hours ago, Arab said:

It depends on your financial availability. Every provider I've seen so far asked for a security deposit

Sounds like you’re on the right track. 

I even talk to non escort friends about the deposit thing, and they all agree. Non of them would be driving to the next town or paying to book a room without a deposit.

I used to do stuff like that, but times have changed. Many sites have shutdown, hookup apps have affected the market, men are flakier. And too: my risk level has changed. I used to like the thrill of maybe getting 5 clients, maybe getting 0. But that’s too much gambling and speculation for me. I need to do things fair and sensible. I would be foolish to do that now.

It’s not necessary to get overly technical about it, but just the simple fact: the providers take a bigger risk in the situation and should be given assurance without feeling up against the wall to be a scam. 

10 hours ago, jeezifonly said:

So, you stand while writing the pamphlets posted here? 
😂

I want to laugh with you, but don’t get it 🤔 

22 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

this happens a lot - providers posting ads in a city where they aren’t located and have no plans to go there.  And a delayed response of a day or more is also common.

the guys posting in other cities may be just to gauge client interest for a possible future trip.  Or, they just want the inquires to build a bigger list of contacts.  And I suppose some could be doing it in hopes of getting a deposit as a scam.  

an inquiry about availability, rate & location is not an obligation to schedule an appointment.  And I don’t think it requires any explanation if the client decides not to book.  I’ve decided not to book some providers after an initial inquiry just based on providers attitude & tone in the text.  If the rate is more than I want to pay, I respect the providers rate & don’t want to get into a bargaining session.  
A simple thank you is all that’s required if something in the providers response causes a client not to schedule.

If the text exchange inquiry is more than 1 or 2 texts from client, then an explanation is appropriate because now the client is wasting providers time. 

Hard to tell in that specific exchange…and yeah some providers like myself, I may advertise in multiple cities. Some I’m WILLING to go to, others I actually will be passing thru. If I’m say: going to Phoenix and someone reaches out asking if I ever go to Las Vegas: it’s a chance the message may not have the urgency to immediately reply to. Or if it’s some place far out, I might bookmark it or reference my site instead.

As for the clients asking rates/availability/location: it’s a fine line. If a client gets rate, availability and my address and then flakes out: that’s not just an inquiry. At that point I’m expecting for something to happen.

 Issue is, many providers don’t have a “head hunter” handling all the inquiries. Or a madam. So I assume when a client reaches out, he’s done his part to read/review my ad and website with rates and ready to book. When someone comes empty handed with no idea of anything, and I take the time to walk them through and get no booking out of it: that’s when I want to start asking for a consultation.  
 

At the end of the day, the phone bill doesn’t get paid answering inquiries that go nowhere. The hotel, rent and car insurance don’t get paid when inquiries go unreplied to either. Escorts and providers are still relying on people to follow thru. Answering texts aren’t going to pay for those things if they’re not getting a booking out of it.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[SouthOfTheBorder]

54 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

So I assume when a client reaches out, he’s done his part to read/review my ad and website with rates and ready to book

I would not make that assumption.  
I’d bet the majority never make it your website & most don’t even bother to read your complete profile on RM.  It’s just typical online behavior.  It’s a major barrier to anyone (or company) selling anything online.  The people who would read your RM profile & then click thru to your website and read all of that is a very tiny percentage of users.  This is not unique to you & your ad - it’s just how people consume & comprehend online information.  And in the case of providers on RM, I’d also bet most users look at the pics only.

When a I ask a provider for location in an initial inquiry, I’m not asking for an address. I’m asking for a general description of neighborhood so I can figure out how easy it is for me to get there.  If I’m in Upper Manhattan and a provider tells me they’re in specific neighborhood in Brooklyn, then no - I’m just not willing to travel that far and I couldn’t make that decision without knowing where provider is located.  If they tell me Hells Kitchen, that’s easy and location would not be an issue.  Some providers give general descriptions in profiles like “located in West Hollywood” and that eliminates the question about location for me….because I actually read the profiles. 

tbh - when I see a provider ad that has a heavy travel schedule, I don’t message those people because if they’re only in a place where I could meet them for 2 days, it’s just not worth the effort because of the general trend of providers not responding timely.  You may respond timely, but that’s not typical in my experience.  
It looks like much of your frustration seems to be because of moving around a lot in smaller cities with fewer people looking for providers, who don’t want to pay.  It makes sense to look for opportunities in smaller cities and less competition, it just brings a different set of issues than someone who may be permanently based in LA.

The deposit thing is not a right or wrong.  However, it creates a barrier for most potential clients who just won’t do it.  The key to successful marketing of any product or service is to make it easy for potential customers to buy the service.  And if the vast majority of your competitors make it easier for customers to buy their service, then your business will suffer in comparison.  It’s not about you, your ad, your skills as a provider - it’s just human behavior to take the easier option. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

24 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

tbh - when I see a provider ad that has a heavy travel schedule, I don’t message those people because if they’re only in a place where I could meet them for 2 days, it’s just not worth the effort because of the general trend of providers not responding timely.  You may respond timely, but that’s not typical in my experience.  

It looks like much of your frustration seems to be because of moving around a lot in smaller cities with fewer people looking for providers, who don’t want to pay.  It makes sense to look for opportunities in smaller cities and less competition, it just brings a different set of issues than someone who may be permanently based in LA.

The deposit thing is not a right or wrong.  However, it creates a barrier for most potential clients who just won’t do it.  The key to successful marketing of any product or service is to make it easy for potential customers to buy the service.  And if the vast majority of your competitors make it easier for customers to buy their service, then your business will suffer in comparison.  It’s not about you, your ad, your skills as a provider - it’s just human behavior to take the easier option. 

Well that sounds moreso of a personal preference versus actual facts. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with making available plenty of travel locations. Especially within close range of one another. Even if I don’t go to all of them, there may be someone in at least a couple who’s willing to connect. The best way to resolve that is by reaching out to the person ahead of time. Just because other guys may have taken a day or two to respond doesn’t mean everyone is the same. 
 

It’s not necessarily that I’m focusing on just small cities, it’s simply what I have to work with based on where I am and where I’m nearby. I’m not close enough to a megapolis to actively post up in those, so I try to focus on areas I can get to within a couple or so hours. One that’s not going to involve hundreds of dollars before I even get my first client, to visit. 
 

As for ease of deposit: you can’t sit here and tell me this is difficult:

 

There’s 2 buttons: pay/request and enter the amount. It’s not rocket science. A 5th grader can do it. There’s nothing difficult about a deposit, people do it very easily.

The ones who don’t want to deposit and comment about how difficult it is: are often either non-committal, not trustworthy, not trusting of the provider, too paranoid within their marriage (and plenty married clients do fine to send deposits), or they just don’t have the best intent. 
 

I can’t sit around and be fixated about what other providers are doing or not doing to make it easier for clients. There’s also guys giving it up for free, if I were to worry about them making it easier for people, I would be not even doing this at all 🤷🏾‍♂️ 

And as I’ve said before: I’ve not done deposits in the past, and people were still on the same ole games and BS. Only difference now, I’m not on the games and BS. I’m not a newbie anymore who’s willing to take risks going places or setting up hotels, just to be cancelled on. And time and time again, the ones who either don’t pay deposits or I forget to ask: usually end up bailing anyway. I have nothing to lose based on the things I’ve experienced.