Deposits and when are they ok to ask for it?

[SouthOfTheBorder]

1 hour ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

I can’t sit around and be fixated about what other providers are doing or not doing to make it easier for clients.

If a provider has been burned repeatedly by flakes, no-shows, cancellations etc - it’s easy to understand why they would try a deposit only model.  But, that will cause a loss of potential clients who just won’t contact that provider.  Then it’s up to the provider to decide if the deposit model is worth it vs the loss of potential clients.  

I checked out your RM profile. Super sexy & handsome with many 5 star reviews.  Yet, no mention of any deposits in your profile.  If that’s a requirement, and is a dealbreaker for you - why not mention it there ?  

 

[Midwest_Man]

It's amazing after all this time you still think people aren't paying deposits because they don't know how.  Yes it's 2 buttons but that doesn't change the fact that I'm not paying a deposit.  It's not a surprise you had your slowest month ever last month when you refuse to admit that your business model is preventing a vast majority of potential clients from even reaching out to you in the first place. I met 3 providers last month.  One local, one visiting my city and one when I was traveling. None charged deposits and all were very busy.  

[myophile]

16 hours ago, Arab said:

It depends on your financial availability. Every provider I've seen so far asked for a security deposit

In the five or so years I’ve been doing this, out of the two dozen or so guys I’ve hired, I have only been asked for a deposit maybe three times, and the only one I actually paid was to a provider making a special trip from another city  — and that was possibly the best money I’ve ever spent on this hobby (IFBB pro bodybuilder, unexpectedly eager to have me fuck him, YEEHAW!!!)

[+ purplekow]

I fail to understand the issue any longer:

You may ask for a deposit.

The client can refuse.

End stop.  

Badgering the client is not going to change his mind or at the best it places the visit on an adversarial basis.  So continue to ask and continue to get a certain percentage of rejections and stop wondering why or don't ask.  

Edited November 21, 2023 by purplekow

[Jarrod_Uncut]

9 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

Yet, no mention of any deposits in your profile.  If that’s a requirement, and is a dealbreaker for you - why not mention it there ?  
 

I’m going to tell you why in a moment, but: I DO mention deposits in my profiles and my website. You may not see it on RentMen because they don’t allow rates, but on RentMasseur and Adam, I have mentioned this. 
 

I believe however, last time I tried to update my profile mentioning anything about pay/deposit verbatim it wasn’t included. However I have often mentioned something like a % is asked to confirm. And didn’t have any issues posting.

7 hours ago, Midwest_Man said:

It's amazing after all this time you still think people aren't paying deposits because they don't know how.  Yes it's 2 buttons but that doesn't change the fact that I'm not paying a deposit.  It's not a surprise you had your slowest month ever last month when you refuse to admit that your business model is preventing a vast majority of potential clients from even reaching out to you in the first place. I met 3 providers last month.  One local, one visiting my city and one when I was traveling. None charged deposits and all were very busy.  

Who said people don’t pay deposits because they don’t know how? It certainly wasn’t me. I was just letting someone know that it’s NOT a matter of it being difficult, and that it’s easy to do so with a number of apps or transfer services like Zelle. Now if it’s a factor or it being difficult due to the other things I mentioned: I don’t have much control over that. Just like I have no control over deposits that hotels and apartments want when I want to host clients 🤷🏾‍♂️ 

And don’t try to take comments I make, and try to use that in a way to make a point. Just because I said what I said, has nothing to do with deposits. I don’t know the providers you mentioned or where they are based, so I can’t compare. You just mentioned 3 variables that likely don’t compare: your local market, another visiting and one when you were traveling and you don’t even mention what cities they are. So how can I even compare that to anything? If they’re not in my specific area, dealing with the specific type of market I’m dealing with: then there’s no reason to bring it up at all. And slowest month ever, doesn’t mean I didn’t just see $1,000 in 2 days last weekend ☝

The problem is: I can’t make that kind of money anymore in my own region. I had to travel 5-6 hours to the next state just to do it. It seems like many of the gay population here is broke and on a budget, and like I told a client buddy of mine yesterday who lives in the area: there’s more and more fly by night guys keep advertising in this area. Yet 99% most of all inquiries here is a flake or a phony. It’s the perfect storm: few clients, too much competition. Deposits probably only have like 0.5% to do with it because, I try to book people without deposits on alternative sites, and they still don’t want to pay for anything. Or they want to pay $100-$120. 

Best to have the whole picture, before making statements that you don’t have all the info on. Slowest month is in regards to my home area of Kansas City. And even before I started charging deposits here, people were still not reliable, flaking on appointments, cancelling as I was about to walk out the door…any and everything. Then I would have to regularly travel long distances for appointments to other regions, and I didn’t want to take the risk going to places just based on a couple flirty texts. It’s not eharmony. It’s escorting. All of my clients all understand and have no issue with deposit. 

And don’t compare me to other providers. You keep making anecdotal comments, which can’t be verified. And anybody can lie and tell you they’re busy, to make you feel however they want you to feel. The real world is talking totally different:

 

Also:

5 hours ago, purplekow said:

I fail to understand the issue any longer:

You may ask for a deposit.

The client can refuse.

End stop.  

Bdgtering the client is not going to change his mind or at the best it places the visit on an adversarial basis.  So continue to ask and continue to get a certain percentage of rejections and stop wondering why or don't ask.  

The issue is: people are asking questions, yet people keep bringing up how they never have to, how others don’t, etc etc. Is  it really end stop if people can’t just agree: “some providers will, some providers won’t. It does not imply in any way anything other than a personal preference, and each escort has the option to do whichever method they choose to do”. Simple as that.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

6 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

Yet, no mention of any deposits in your profile.  If that’s a requirement, and is a dealbreaker for you - why not mention it there ?  

Back to your question (and I’m not trying to prove you wrong), I just want people to UNDERSTAND WHY. It’s not as easy as it seems.

And lookie, that was faster than I thought:

[Simon Suraci]

Here’s how I get around it. Who knows how long this will fly, but you could try some clever version of it. Imperfect solution I admit, and it’s at the bottom of the page in a less obvious location, but at least one way to get by.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

12 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

Here’s how I get around it. Who knows how long this will fly, but you could try some clever version of it. Imperfect solution I admit, and it’s at the bottom of the page in a less obvious location, but at least one way to get by.

Good point, I have it all mentioned in my site as well that’s fairly easy to navigate. I just wouldn’t want to risk getting scolded for not following the rules. Just the other day I wrote something that I think said appointments, and the whole paragraph got wiped out

[Simon Suraci]

@Jarrod_UncutOuch, that sucks.
 

Note for clients: sometimes we can’t present information in the way you want us to because of the limitations of a certain platform or out of sensitivity to legal concerns. It’s not always an oversight or a deliberate omission, but sometimes it is. Providers and platforms vary.

[Guest]

Keep it simple. Simplicity in design is genius, simplicity in humans is divine and velvet ropes work. 

[Guest]

Everyone is entitled to go about their business as they see fit and we all do it a bit differently.... and while I don't claim to know it all, I certainly have figured out a formula that has worked for me and continues to work for me.  I continue to be as busy as I want to be and this is all coming from someone that rarely runs an active visible ad ( my ad is probably hidden 90% of the year ) NONE of this would be possible if I charged for a "consultation" , demanded a deposit ( I've already mentioned in other posts the two RARE exceptions for a deposit being warranted ) or if I chased people for a cancellation fee....  just last night, someone who I was going to see in Palm Springs next week cancelled on me because of a death in his family that requires him to leave the state, he asked for my  Venmo information so he could pay for the session he had to cancel... I'm not going to post the screenshot of the conversation because it's my personal opinion that doing so is in poor taste ( those are private conversations ) but I basically said that the fact that he offered was plenty and after expressing my condolences, I told him there was no way I could accept that money... Under certain and different circumstances that might have not been the case, for instance, if it  was a last minute cancellation where I couldn't recoup the time or if I had driven1-2 hours only to be cancelled on, but accepting cancellation money is very circumstantial and is not the norm. Would I bend over backwards for someone who's paid or offered cancellation money, you better believe it! There are certain unwritten rules and a code of ethics among us in what I would consider to be long time and successful providers; things like asking for deposits, asking for the "honorarium" prior to the session and counting money in front of people unless asked to do so, otherwise it's all just in poor taste.  I speak from years of experience and I've always been the first to get out of my own way, ask for opinions and advice from people who I have high regard for, loads of respect and who I consider voices of reason and to do the opposite of what has been advised and expect different results would justifiably and appropriately render me both a fool and insane. Take this all for what you will but it comes from years of experience from a guy who could only gripe about one thing.... OCCASIONALLY getting stuck in traffic. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Vin_Marco

[Jarrod_Uncut]

1 hour ago, Vin_Marco said:

Everyone is entitled to go about their business as they see fit and we all do it a bit differently.... and while I don't claim to know it all, I certainly have figured out a formula that has worked for me and continues to work for me.  I continue to be as busy as I want to be and this is all coming from someone that rarely runs an active visible ad ( my ad is probably hidden 90% of the year ) NONE of this would be possible if I charged for a "consultation" , demanded a deposit ( I've already mentioned in other posts the two RARE exceptions for a deposit being warranted ) or if the I chased people for a cancellation fee....  just last night, someone who I was going to see in Palm Springs next week cancelled on me because of a death in his family that requires him to leave the state, he asked for my  Venmo information so he could pay for the session he had to cancel... I'm not going to post the screenshot of the conversation because it's my personal opinion that doing so is in poor taste ( those are private conversations ) but I basically said that the fact that he offered was plenty and after expressing my condolences, I told him there was no way I could accept that money... Under certain and different circumstances that might have not been the case, for instance, if it  was a last minute cancellation where I couldn't recoup the time or if I had driven1-2 hours only to be cancelled on, but accepting cancellation money is very circumstantial and is not the norm. Would I bend over backwards for someone who's paid or offered cancellation money, you better believe it! There are certain unwritten rules and a code of ethics among us in what I would consider to be long time and successful providers; things like asking for deposits, asking for the "honorarium" prior to the session and counting money in front of people unless asked to do so, otherwise it's all just in poor taste.  I speak from years of experience and I've always been the first to get out of my own way, ask for opinions and advice from people who I have high regard for, loads of respect and who I consider voices of reason and to do the opposite of what has been advised and expect different results would justifiably and appropriately render me both a fool and insane. Take this all for what you will but it comes from years of experience from a guy who could only gripe about one thing.... OCCASIONALLY getting stuck in traffic. 

I respect that all, however…in the case you mentioned about the guy offering you a Venmo cancellation, I had someone just last week cancel because of some complications involving the same you mentioned. But did he offer me a Venmo cancellation? No. Basically brushed it off and then gave some comment about he can’t afford it and “maybe next time in town”.  
 

Because of his cancellation, I had to cancel a dermatology appointment I scored at the last minute, because it was in the same city the client was, in St. Louis which is 4 hours from me. But because my part-time roommate in St. Louis also had a death in the family, he had relative staying with him on emergency, and I couldn’t afford to drive out, and get a hotel for two days without assurance of an appointment.

So let’s first acknowledge: clients cancelling PERIOD, has the possibilities of messing up an escorts ENTIRE PLANS. Once people get that in their heads, they can stop minimizing the importance of deposits. Get why first, some charge deposits, then we can discuss all the other stuff.
 

I respect you as a provider, however at the end of the day I think you may forget a fact called “White privilege” (and that is a blanket description regardless of what ethnic background one may be from). Even though I won’t get deep into the factors of that, I think you sometimes post from a point of privilege, and don’t always see things from an alternative perspective. Acknowledging the fact that perhaps, certain providers may receive different treatment from people depending on where they are based at: is not going to be the same as you, a provider who’s set up in an affluent area of the country. 
 

At the end of the day, I think a person can have their preferences without necessarily criticizing another’s decision. I ask consultations for a reason. It’s not like I just woke up and said, “ooo let me charge $20 for consultations”. No. I did it because I was spending time after time after time, responding to people who never give anything back for my time.
 

In fact I had stopped doing it for awhile until last week: waited around for an hour at 10-11 p.m. for a client when I was already about on my way home, only to tell me he’s not going to be ready to meet. Then I go and find a bunch of shit that other providers have wrote saying he did the same thing to them. I could have went home an hour ago that night, but I had a small amount of trust he would meet, considering we met before and he sent me the hotel address 🤦🏾‍♂️ 

Privilege exists when one group has something of value that is denied to others simply because of group membership and not based on what a person or group has done or failed to do

Understanding Race and Privilege

WWW.NASPONLINE.ORG

---

Across the nation, children of all backgrounds are experiencing a time in which discussions about...

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[SouthOfTheBorder]

8 hours ago, myophile said:

In the five or so years I’ve been doing this, out of the two dozen or so guys I’ve hired

I’ve been doing this for 35 years, hundreds of meetings, in many countries around the world.  
I’ve been asked for a deposit exactly one time.  It was in NYC and with a provider I knew well who had just switched to a deposit business model.  Since I knew him well, I went along with it knowing there was zero risk on my part and he was testing out the deposit model.  Guess what ? He no longer requires deposits because he lost income - new clients wouldn’t do it.

The main point is that in the provider/client context - deposits are not customary and very very few providers operate on that model.  So, to decide to operate outside the customary model, the provider will get push-back. It’s baked it - meaning its absolutely going to happen.  If the provider is ok with the push-back & loss of potential clients & corresponding income - then by all means, go for it.  Try to change the industry.

Just my opinion - but I think the only time a deposit model would work is if there is a very famous & known provider where the demand for appointments is so high and the rate is corresponding high - so deposits would be a way to minimize lost opportunity if people flake when there are others waiting in line to pay for same appointment time.  That would only happen in NYC, London, LA, Las Vegas or Miami. 
It doesn’t work in small markets where demand is less and clients don’t want to pay at all. Creating barriers in small markets with people that don’t want to pay, is a recipe for frustration & no money.

This isn’t complicated - it basic economics re: supply/demand & marketing online services given known human behavior in context of markets, clients & competition.  It could be for any sort of business - same sort of analysis. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[MikeBiDude]

48 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

So let’s first acknowledge: clients cancelling PERIOD, has the possibilities of messing up an escorts ENTIRE PLANS

The inverse is certainly true as well.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

1 hour ago, Vin_Marco said:

 I speak from years of experience and I've always been the first to get out of my own way, ask for opinions and advice from people who I have high regard for, loads of respect and who I consider voices of reason and to do the opposite of what has been advised and expect different results would justifiably and appropriately render me both a fool and insane.

wise words. everything you post is spot-on.  I’d say there is alot to be learned from your wisdom and willingness to share.  the guys who are starting out and/or struggling can make it so difficult, yet you make it look easy.  Of course, it’s not easy and that’s what sets you apart from the rest, IMO

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

wise words. everything you post is spot-on.  I’d say there is alot to be learned from your wisdom and willingness to share.  the guys who are starting out and/or struggling can make it so difficult, yet you make it look easy.  Of course, it’s not easy and that’s what sets you apart from the rest, IMO

Thank youuuu. I sincerely appreciate what you said 🫂 🙏🏽

[SouthOfTheBorder]

1 minute ago, Vin_Marco said:

I sincerely appreciate what you said

because I mean it & it’s true .

[Jamie21]

1 hour ago, Vin_Marco said:

There are certain unwritten rules and a code of ethics among us in what I would consider to be long time and successful providers; things like asking for deposits, asking for the "honorarium" prior to the session and counting money in front of people unless asked to do so,

Yes, I agree with these unwritten rules. No deposits (but I don’t travel for longer than an hour), no payment up front, no counting the money unless asked to. I’d add no last minute late night bookings, no client gets to book a session if they’ve previously no showed (I give one chance, if there was a reasonable excuse).

These are rules I apply and my business model works fine 99% of the time for me. It’s my choice to work like this, I could travel but I choose not to. Other business models might require different policies but I like mine because they work for me and have done for 6 years. Over 70% of my clients are repeat business.  I don’t need or want to chase work, therefore I don’t need to make any compromises in how I do business. 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

58 minutes ago, Jamie21 said:

no payment up front,

I always pay upfront with new providers so there is no confusion or question. It’s my choice & always seem appreciated. Usually there is a look of surprise, which I enjoy.  I operate on slightly different norm & it works for me.  I try to pay in big bills so no reason to count it. I wouldn’t be offended if someone counted it tho.

If upfront money is requested or demanded, that’s a red flag and things probably won’t get better.

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[SouthOfTheBorder]

I think I need to see @Jamie21and @Vin_Marco

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I always pay upfront with new providers so there is no confusion or question. It’s my choice & always seem appreciated.

I don't need to tell you how many people you have automatically put at ease without them ever saying, it's a great gesture to put it visibly on a night stand but it's a big difference from someone asking for it prior to. You're a class act SOTB 🙌🏽

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I think I need to see @Jamie21and @Vin_Marco

 🧭 North, South, West, and or East of the border, anytime baby! 

[myophile]

2 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

Everyone is entitled to go about their business as they see fit and we all do it a bit differently.... and while I don't claim to know it all, I certainly have figured out a formula that has worked for me and continues to work for me.  I continue to be as busy as I want to be and this is all coming from someone that rarely runs an active visible ad ( my ad is probably hidden 90% of the year ) NONE of this would be possible if I charged for a "consultation" , demanded a deposit ( I've already mentioned in other posts the two RARE exceptions for a deposit being warranted ) or if the I chased people for a cancellation fee....  just last night, someone who I was going to see in Palm Springs next week cancelled on me because of a death in his family that requires him to leave the state, he asked for my  Venmo information so he could pay for the session he had to cancel... I'm not going to post the screenshot of the conversation because it's my personal opinion that doing so is in poor taste ( those are private conversations ) but I basically said that the fact that he offered was plenty and after expressing my condolences, I told him there was no way I could accept that money... Under certain and different circumstances that might have not been the case, for instance, if it  was a last minute cancellation where I couldn't recoup the time or if I had driven1-2 hours only to be cancelled on, but accepting cancellation money is very circumstantial and is not the norm. Would I bend over backwards for someone who's paid or offered cancellation money, you better believe it! There are certain unwritten rules and a code of ethics among us in what I would consider to be long time and successful providers; things like asking for deposits, asking for the "honorarium" prior to the session and counting money in front of people unless asked to do so, otherwise it's all just in poor taste.  I speak from years of experience and I've always been the first to get out of my own way, ask for opinions and advice from people who I have high regard for, loads of respect and who I consider voices of reason and to do the opposite of what has been advised and expect different results would justifiably and appropriately render me both a fool and insane. Take this all for what you will but it comes from years of experience from a guy who could only gripe about one thing.... OCCASIONALLY getting stuck in traffic. 

Thank you for lifting the tone of this conversation above the purely transactional, big guy 💪🏻😘

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

I respect you as a provider, however at the end of the day I think you may forget a fact called “White privilege”

I'm only going to speak on this one time  and one time only, never again. Please be cautious of who you accuse of being privileged in such a way.....  I am Mexican. I am an immigrant from Mexico. I am the son of immigrants. I didn't learn to speak English until I was six years old and being raised here in Southern California I was called "wet back" and "beaner"  more times than I can count. I  grew up a scrappy fighting kid as a result of that bigotry and prejudice ....  Are you meaning to say that my time in the gym ( my entire life ) my education, the way I treat people means nothing?  That it's more your perception of me being subject to some sort of white privilege??? That's utter nonsense! My parents lived on a boat for years and for part of my formative years I lived in a Sāmoan household.... I speak fluent Sāmoan ( ou te iloa gagana Sāmoa!!!!  ) 
Almost on a daily basis I'm asked of what ethnic origin I come from, obviously even strangers don't assume the same white privilege you ask if I'm aware of. I'm not mad, I'm not offended, and I say this all with informative good intentions. 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2023 by Vin_Marco

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, myophile said:

Thank you for lifting the tone of this conversation above the purely transactional, big guy 💪🏻😘

Thank you for saying that 🫂