Client Etiquette: Don’t ask how much, and then say it’s too much…

[Jarrod_Uncut]

2 hours ago, MikeBiDude said:

I guess I don’t understand @Jarrod_Uncut:

1) client describes himself, and requests info

2) you send him link to your website, he checks it out 

3) after viewing your site…he determines you are not in his price range/budget

What’s the issue here? The “too expensive” comment?  Why should a client disclose his budget range in an exploratory message?

I’ll explain the issue, once again:

#1: MY PRICES ARE ON MY AD/WEBSITE

#2: Asking me in the first place, shows the person didn’t bother to read my profile, he probably sends the same message to 10 other providers.

#3: Yes, saying I’m too expensive for HIM…is essentially undervaluing my service. Even If he didn’t send the same message to 10 other guys, then why waste my time sending me a long drawn out message, IF you aren’t prepared to pay whatever price. If a price is that much of a burden for you, then don’t step up to the plate so assertively as if you are interested in my services. Why did I even need to read all that bullshit, instead of him just saying what he can afford.
 

If he was going to be that audacious, he should have just included: I read your site and seen your ad but I can’t afford it. Can you offer me a lower price? I would have said fuck off, or: let me see what I can do for you.

Thats akin to clients saying they get annoyed when a provider asks for a deposit and doesn’t say it upfront in his ad. It’s just the reverse. 
 

How would you like, if I walked up to your house…said I love it, want to buy it, and plant a nice yard: how much are you selling it for? Then I say: never mind, too expensive. Thanks.

 

 I’m not stupid and I wasn’t born yesterday. I know bullshit when I see it. 

1 hour ago, DWnyc said:

All I take away from your asking him, how much he can afford, and what I presume most people would take away, is that your rates aren’t actually sacrosanct.

And if you offer discounts as you’ve said elsewhere, or if you say you were willing to hear him out to see if his counter offer was lower than something you’d be willing to accept (implies you would actually accept something lower price than your published rate) why shouldn’t someone try to have a conversation about price?

No. again; you’re operating in the affirmative. You ASSUME that me asking that is an opening to negotiation.

I’m not saying, “oh you think it’s too much? Maybe I can lower it for you”. I’m simply saying: “If you have the balls enough to say I’m overpriced, you should be man enough to say how much you can afford”.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[+ nycman]

2 hours ago, MikeBiDude said:

I guess I don’t understand @Jarrod_Uncut:

[+ APPLE1]

5 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

I’ll explain the issue, once again:

#1: MY PRICES ARE ON MY AD/WEBSITE

#2: Asking me in the first place, shows the person didn’t bother to read my profile, he probably sends the same message to 10 other providers.

#3: Yes, saying I’m too expensive for HIM…is essentially undervaluing my service. Even If he didn’t send the same message to 10 other guys, then why waste my time sending me a long drawn out message, IF you aren’t prepared to pay whatever price. If a price is that much of a burden for you, then don’t step up to the plate so assertively as if you are interested in my services. Why did I even need to read all that bullshit, instead of him just saying what he can afford.
 

If he was going to be that audacious, he should have just included: I read your site and seen your ad but I can’t afford it. Can you offer me a lower price? I would have said fuck off, or: let me see what I can do for you.

Thats akin to clients saying they get annoyed when a provider asks for a deposit and doesn’t say it upfront in his ad. It’s just the reverse. 
 

How would you like, if I walked up to your house…said I love it, want to buy it, and plant a nice yard: how much are you selling it for? Then I say: never mind, too expensive. Thanks.

 

 I’m not stupid and I wasn’t born yesterday. I know bullshit when I see it. 

No. again; you’re operating in the affirmative. You ASSUME that me asking that is an opening to negotiation.

I’m not saying, “oh you think it’s too much? Maybe I can lower it for you”. I’m simply saying: “If you have the balls enough to say I’m overpriced, you should be man enough to say how much you can afford”.

I will absolutely agree with you on on 1 and 2, and half of 3. In general, I find people lazy and not assertive enough to be up front about many things.

He obviously devalued your service. Different values people assign to goods and services is precisely the reason there's a McDonald's less than 1.5 miles from Ocean Prime in Kansas City. Some people value a cheeseburger at $22, and some people reduce its value to $2. I don't see that either restaurant is advertising that they are going out of business, so I have to assume that Kansas City has a enough people at both ends, and middle, of that value scale to support both.

Please keep in mind that is not just about food quality and atmosphere either. I don't want any one to feel like I have reduced them a McDonald's cheeseburger. Some people view eating out as wonderful event worthy of a high payment. Others view as a necessary evil because of social engagements and time constraints, and are content to pay the least they can.

Assumptions about the how's and why's of people's actions are never so cut and dried. Maybe, he did message 10 others, and maybe, one of them said "$125."

Maybe, he was playing a "game" and waiting for you to lower the price.

Having potential customers look, question, accept, decline, and give reasons, including made up ones, is integral to sales. I also understand it's probably one of the most, if not THE most unpleasant parts of selling, especially selling one's self.

I full well assume that if I listed my house on the market, I would have lookie loos, people who could in no way afford my house, people who were already waiting to hear back on a previous offer, and even people who loved the house, and the price, and the neighborhood, but tell me they just couldn't buy it because the mailbox was the wrong color. I would accept that leaving my house and rearranging my schedule/life, was part of the work I signed up for when I hung the "for sale" sign.

Edited April 22, 2023 by APPLE1
Punctuation

[DWnyc]

2 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Thats akin to clients saying they get annoyed when a provider asks for a deposit and doesn’t say it upfront in his ad. It’s just the reverse. 
 

No it’s not. That issue of deposits has loaded into it a host of other factors such as disclosure of the clients identity and prepayment for service that may not end up being delivered as promised or at all with no recourse, and plenty of clients have horror stories of provider bad behavior on these issues. 

 

2 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

How would you like, if I walked up to your house…said I love it, want to buy it, and plant a nice yard: how much are you selling it for? Then I say: never mind, too expensive. Thanks.

You just described the typical American open house. Happens all the time, my friend. Its not a question of if I like it or not; it’s a recognized part of the sales process. 

You use the word “respect” quite a lot. If you really find this process disrespectful (and capitalism can seem that way, depending on how one fares out of it), there are likely ways you can take more control. If you’re really not prepared to have a discussion on price (though now you’ve now more than once said you basically are …), and are particularly sensitive to the issue of your rates being available and people needing to see that material before contacting you, how about then starting with “before we discuss anything further I’d like to confirm you’ve been on my website and are comfortable on the pricing there. Are you?”. If they say no, and that’s a problem for you, and the disrespect you feel outweighs a salesperson’s instinct for any meaningful net revenue that may arise, end the conversation there and then. The time spent would be less than venting and reliving the experience to this degree.

[+ APPLE1]

I think leading the response with the website is an excellent idea. Although @Jarrod_Uncut  has prices in the ad, I can certainly say in that platform, and others, I have reached out, and the first reply from the provider was 'here's my website. It has more details. If you are still interested Ina meeting after you check it out, message me again.'

Edited April 22, 2023 by APPLE1
Punctuation

[Jarrod_Uncut]

26 minutes ago, DWnyc said:

If you’re really not prepared to have a discussion on price (though now you’ve now more than once said you basically are …), and are particularly sensitive to the issue of your rates being available and people needing to see that material before contacting you, how about then starting with “before we discuss anything further I’d like to confirm you’ve been on my website and are comfortable on the pricing there. Are you?”.

Thanks for letting me know you didn’t read the first post. But since you asked: I’ll say it again:

 

See where I did that? That was the first response I sent. I even have it in my initial text template. So yes, there is an instant questioning of confirming they’ve read my site. 

In defense of clients: I have emailed RentMen and told them: when people click on our NUMBER, let us customize a message to include, instead of the standard “ask for XXX and say you seen me on rentmen” I want to be able to write a whole paragraph and make sure they check a box after every . to understand fully my ad before contacting me. That way I’m not having to do all the extra stuff. It would look something like this:

BEFORE TEXTING, PLEASE AGREE TO ALL TERMS BELOW:

#1: Please be ready to give me 1 to 2 hours minimum notice or preferably day in advance. ✅

# 2: I require a deposit unless you are hosting and have a profile/pic ✅

#3: My rates are $200-$300 per session ✅

4. Please check this box again to agree you have read all terms. Any visits cancelled last minute subject to $50-$100 cancellation fee ✅

5. Check this box again to agree you will not argue/be passive aggressive about my deposit or booking policy ✅

Thanks for following directions valued client. I can’t wait to meet you! Here’s my number (xxx) xxx-xxxx

Edited April 22, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[+ APPLE1]

15 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Thanks for letting me know you didn’t read the first post. But since you asked: I’ll say it again:

 

See where I did that? That was the first response I sent. I even have it in my initial text template. So yes, there is an instant questioning of confirming they’ve read my site. 

In defense of clients: I have emailed RentMen and told them: when people click on our NUMBER, let us customize a message to include, instead of the standard “ask for XXX and say you seen me on rentmen” I want to be able to write a whole paragraph and make sure they check a box after every . to understand fully my ad before contacting me. That way I’m not having to do all the extra stuff. It would look something like this:

BEFORE TEXTING, PLEASE AGREE TO ALL TERMS BELOW:

#1: Please be ready to give me 1 to 2 hours minimum notice or preferably day in advance. ✅

# 2: I require a deposit unless you are hosting and have a profile/pic ✅

#3: My rates are $200-$300 per session ✅

4. Please check this box again to agree you have read all terms. Any visits cancelled last minute subject to $50-$100 cancellation fee ✅

5. Check this box again to agree you will not argue/be passive aggressive about my deposit or booking policy ✅

Thanks for following directions valued client. I can’t wait to meet you! Here’s my number (xxx) xxx-xxxx

I can only speak for myself, obviously. Because "to schedule..." started a new paragraph, combined with the black line, I assumed you sent 2 messages in a row. I didn't understand it was 1 long message.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

7 minutes ago, APPLE1 said:

I can only speak for myself, obviously. Because "to schedule..." started a new paragraph, combined with the black line, I assumed you sent 2 messages in a row. I didn't understand it was 1 long message.

No, I censored out some of the conversation where I included rates in the same email

[DWnyc]

22 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Thanks for letting me know you didn’t read the first post. 

Actually I did … 

But I don’t agree that what you did there is the same as what I was suggesting. 

You didn’t ask as your initial response if he had already seen your materials and if he was comfortable with terms and shut it down if he said or you realized he hadn’t.

You send him details of your website. Fine so far. He reviews and replies it’s not for him in response. Are you saying once someone visits your website that is a contractual obligation on their part to make a booking at the rate listed and anything else is wasting your time with such traumatic consequences?

I would actually say him not following up to your question on how much would he be willing to pay might have been respectful behavior on his part knowing this wasn’t going to work and he didn’t want to waste your time further. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

Speaking of prices and wine: I was at a restaurant the week before last, and ordered the larger ounce choice of Chardonnay from the bar while my food was waiting. I was trying not to ask, “how much” but I wish I did. When the bill came, it was $19 😆 I coulda swore I was getting half bottle, because it wasn’t like rare vintage per se. Just a popular upper shelf grocery-available wine. I was charged for the whole bottle plus some.

So I understand sticker shock. And I’ve said before: Sales and people trying to sell me stuff is not in my nature, if I want something I’ll buy it. Coming to me making me feel like I need something, just isn’t me.
 

And I never want to make clients feel that way. I want them to feel relaxed and okay with my rates and UNDERSTAND that I need to charge such prices because: $50-$125 is only enough to pay a bill and leaves nothing to keep myself invested in the biz and sustainable.
 

I don’t herd enough cats in one day to make charging that price efficient for a first time, possibly one time client. I have met long time regulars as low as $150/200 for sessions that I’d normally ask $300 for. It’s not negotiating, it’s just weighing the costs and effort involved. If someone I’ve known for 10 years is a short distance away and is hosting, treating to dinner, etc etc and I know only wants 20-30 minutes AND let’s me ***k his partner…okay, maybe I can do something different then I normally would because: the dynamic is different and I know it’s likely to be repeat. But even they also know: normally it’s 250-300, but I used to stay at their air bnb for 2-3 days and get a paid the session so: I don’t mind being accommodating based on their changed circumstances. But that’s at my discretion versus: well I did XXX, so I don’t think you deserve XXX. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Simon Suraci]

We providers can have the clearest, most straightforward, well communicated rates and policies on our ads. That’s ideal. Doesn’t matter. There will always be a percentage of prospective clients asking bird brain questions they can easily answer for themselves by checking the website or reviewing the ad content.

The question asking behavior doesn’t necessarily mean the client has bad intentions, or that they’re trying to play a game or negotiate for a more favorable rate. Maybe some are, but a lot of people are simply not that good at reading the information and need some hand holding. Even so, if they decide not to proceed for whatever reason, that’s their prerogative. If you get angry at them for asking (admittedly) an unnecessary question, you’re alienating them from ever hiring you in the future. 

I agree, it’s annoying wasting time answering questions to which clients already have the answers if they bothered to look. A considerable number of these question askers follow through and become clients, and of those, some become regulars/repeat. You have to sift through a lot of silt and muck to find a few gold nuggets. It’s tedious work, and not every pan yields a valuable reward. Customer service is never glamorous or enjoyable, but it’s a necessary part of running a good business.

[Jamie21]

I think there’s a strong case for some kind of Preferred Client membership club, where we can admit clients who have been pre vetted to ensure that they are suitable to be clients (or in other words aren’t time wasters 🙂). I’m working on the following idea…

Dear <name of potential client>

Thank you for applying for membership of Provider Prime (just $99 per month!). Approved members (and their members…) will enjoy premium access to our list of exclusive top quality providers, preferential rates, exclusive services and many more benefits including more explosive cum shots, deeper penetration and fluffy towels.

Applicants are requested to complete the following steps:

1) Provider Prime undertakes a credit check using credit reference agencies. Please provide your full name and address history for the past 20 years. NO GAPS. 

2) Provider Prime takes the safety and security of our providers seriously. Please supply the name and address of two referees (not related to you) who have known you for at least 5 years. One of the referees must be a professional (minister of religion, accountant, doctor, lawyer…your psychiatrist is not acceptable).

Please answer the following questions by scoring 1 to 5 where 1 is ‘totally agree, 2 is ‘somewhat agree’, 3 is ‘neutral’, 4 is ‘somewhat disagree’ and 5 is ‘totally disagree’

1. I shower every day. 🔲🔲🔲🔲🔲

2. I have traveled to more than 2 countries (excluding Canada) 🔲🔲🔲🔲🔲

3. Slip on shoes are not acceptable wear in any situation 🔲🔲🔲🔲🔲

4. A Cappuccino can never be ordered in the afternoon 🔲🔲🔲🔲🔲

5. Dolly Parton’s version of ‘I will always love you’ was much better than Whitney’s (Dolly wrote the song FFS!) 🔲🔲🔲🔲🔲

Please send this form with your remittance for the $499 processing fee to the address at the bottom. 

Please allow 2 weeks for your application for Provider Prime to be processed. Unsuccessful applicants will not be informed. Application fees are non refundable. Provider Prime reserves the right to vary services. Multiple orgasms, ceiling hitting cum shots, ass destroying penetration and the fluffiness of towels is not guaranteed.

[Monarchy79]

On 4/21/2023 at 6:21 AM, Jarrod_Uncut said:

This is become, and has always been: a pet peeve. RentMasseur is particularly prone to this, I find. But other sites like Adam can have more than their fair share of it. For example on my Twitter I posted:

#1 If you KNOW you have a budget, don’t ask what an escort/masseur charges. Save the guessing games and make an offer.

#2 My rate is in my ad OR website. Repeating it is extra work=fee

#3 I know my worth. Don’t gaslight me.

I know there was a recent discussion about haggling that I didn’t get to “in time”. But this isn’t about haggling. It’s about basic decency. I imagine most out there have common sense and an idea that a full service SWer is going to ask $200-$300. If someone isn’t prepared to pay that amount, they shouldn’t be approaching off the bat, asking what someone charges. They need to be saying right off the bat: I don’t know your prices (even though it’s on my site, which further proves some stupidity and inability to read), but I’m able to afford X, can you assist? Versus trying to be cunning and make me make the first move. 
 

Also, it’s not like I walked up to said person offering to sell him something. Said person came and DM’d me. If someone knows they can probably only afford a certain amount, common courtesy would be to simply INCLUDE an offer. For example:

 

Notice how he had time to say everything else, but didn’t have time to say what he could afford to pay. This is just time wasting and playing guessing games. 
 

Meanwhile, I’m supposed to be able to afford to visit a different city: spend on commuting, hotel and pay my bills at home, off some phantom amount less than what I charge. But I’m too expensive? Okay...

I feel my prices are decent because couple weeks ago, I had 4/5 back to back bookings in a couple days, who all paid what I asked without trying to talk me down or say it’s too much. And the other day, met a great first time client who sent deposit ahead, booked the room/session and was accommodating from before to after the appointment.

If they can do it, there shouldn’t be any excuses from others not to maintain proper etiquette. 

Always remember that you can’t impose your standards or beliefs of etiquette onto others. 

Carmax doesn’t haggle, 

Neiman Marcus doesn’t complain and never explains….

… and neither should you.

If you provide your pricing to a potential client and he responds with what he “can’t afford” and what he thinks you’re “worth”, simply don’t respond. 

 I wouldn’t even waste my time being offended. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Monarchy79

[SouthOfTheBorder]

5 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

We providers can have the clearest, most straightforward, well communicated rates and policies on our ads. That’s ideal. Doesn’t matter. There will always be a percentage of prospective clients asking bird brain questions they can easily answer for themselves by checking the website or reviewing the ad content

the same exact statement can be made for many goods & services marketed online.

when booking hotels as an example, customers can get dozens of online options with all the details, yet some will still call the hotel directly to ask basic questions answered in many other places.  It’s human nature and there’s no way around that.  then factor in that by nature of the escort services offered, there are always going to be timewasters making contact for some sort of cheap thrill/fetish - that, unfortunately goes with the territory too.

and - the mentality required for escort work is a little like professional salespeople, who routinely face rejection as part of the job.  If the rejection gets into a salespersons  head for whatever reason, it can be a short lived career. the best salespeople understand rejection is part of the game and it doesn’t phase them at all. 
 

[Marc in Calif]

3 hours ago, Monarchy79 said:

 I wouldn’t even waste my time being offended. 

But that's his entire MO here in these forums! 🤣

[Monarchy79]

12 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

But that's his entire MO here in these forums! 🤣

Be nice. 

These forums allow people to express their experiences, and in some cases allow people to vent. 

 

[Marc in Calif]

4 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

Be nice. 

These forums allow people to express their experiences, and in some cases allow people to vent. 

 

How did I suggest not allowing him to vent? I did no such thing.

[Monarchy79]

Just now, Marc in Calif said:

How did I suggest not allowing him to vent? I did no such thing.

Good word play. You obviously threw some passive-aggressive shade towards his comments and posts. 
 

Just own it.

I’m not judging you, and nor should you judge him. 

[Simon Suraci]

Play nice y’all. If we can’t exchange ideas and opinions here, where can we? It’s ok to disagree on stuff.
@Jarrod_Uncut gives us a less filtered view into a lot of provider experiences and concerns you wouldn’t hear otherwise. I don’t agree with all of his approaches, policies, and opinions, but I share some of his same frustrations. Take all of our contributions with a grain of salt.

[DWnyc]

@Jamie21 I was ready to sign up until you brought up the Dolly - Whitney thing. No way after that …

[+ nycman]

5 hours ago, Monarchy79 said:

Be nice. 

These forums allow people to express their experiences, and in some cases allow people to vent. 

 

[Decatur Guy]

Are you aware that potential clients can't see your rates in the United States on RentMen? They can't unless access via a VPN, apparently.  

[Simon Suraci]

22 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

5. Dolly Parton’s version of ‘I will always love you’ was much better than Whitney’s (Dolly wrote the song FFS!)

I thought this was just a fact, not a controversial statement…lol. I have Dolly and Whitney in my playlists, some originals and some remixes/collabs. Not that song though, it’s not great for massage IMO. I love them. I am so gay!

Fun facts: Elvis requested rights to sing this song. Dolly passed. It was a good business decision. She wrote the song when going through a rough professional breakup with Porter Wagoner, who sued her for breach of contract, which she paid back in the following years. Chump change in light of her legendary long solo career.

[Simon Suraci]

8 hours ago, Decatur Guy said:

Are you aware that potential clients can't see your rates in the United States on RentMen? They can't unless access via a VPN, apparently.  

This is true for RentMen. Even with VPN the ads that have rates at all are from five or more years ago, so they are not current reliable information.

Newer ads since then do not have a place to list rates, so even with VPN, many of the ads will not list rates because they were never input in the first place.

Not so for RentMasseur or MasseurFinder; they each list rates. RentMasseur gives the option for the provider to put “ask” instead of a dollar figure. I find this opaque and unnecessary, but other providers have their reasons.

FriendBoy uses the term “score” and omits the dollar sign. Other sites may say “tribute”, “donation”, or what have you.

Personal masseur and escort sites often list rates explicitly, like mine, @Jamie21’s or@Jarrod_Uncut’s. I refer clients to my website in my ad text, as do some others.

RentMasseur does not allow us to post URLs directly into our ads, but they do allow us to post it in our blog, which is a tab on the profile. It’s an extra step, unfortunately. My ad text directs clients to the blog, where they can link to my website and find all the relevant info clearly displayed at their fingertips, including pricing, service descriptions, reviews, and schedule availability. It also is an automatic self-booking tool. Seriously, the easiest thing ever. Getting clients to the personal website is a huge hurdle, but they do find it when they actually read the ad.

Many don’t read the ad, so I do the whole answering 20 questions bit, see the client, they like my work, and then I send them a link to my site for their next visit. That’s when the lightbulb flicks on in their mind and they book me much more conveniently the next time.

The savvy ones read the ad and don’t even need to text me for their first session unless it’s for a question not already answered in my ads or personal site. Those questions I am more than happy to answer. All the other questions I answer as a matter of general customer service. Not begrudgingly, but in the hopes my patience wins over enough of them to justify the time spent.

Clients don’t read ads. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. And then the horse says to you, “I’m thirsty.” 

[Jamie21]

1 hour ago, Simon Suraci said:

I thought this was just a fact, not a controversial statement…lol. I have Dolly and Whitney in my playlists, some originals and some remixes/collabs. Not that song though, it’s not great for massage IMO. I love them. I am so gay!

Fun facts: Elvis requested rights to sing this song. Dolly passed. It was a good business decision. She wrote the song when going through a rough professional breakup with Porter Wagoner, who sued her for breach of contract, which she paid back in the following years. Chump change in light of her legendary long solo career.

Yes it is a fact, absolutely! But some people believe the earth is flat so there’s that….

Dolly is the savviest business person there is, and the most generous benefactor 😍