Encouraging Providers to Participate more on Forums.

[+ PhileasFogg]

I think the constructive contribution of providers is important.  

Not unique to any public gathering, the challenge comes with the intersection of an uncivil provider, an uncivil client, or both.   Replace “uncivil” with “immature” and my observation is more typical.  

But there’s more upside to providers being heard than downside.  Combine that with great moderation like we have here, and it’s a strong net positive. 

Edited yesterday at 11:32 AM by PhileasFogg

[Mark_fl]

What's also been nice is that you can more easily determine which providers respect the clients and which are condescending. 80% of the providers who post here are great. Sadly those who are anonymous are anonymous for a reason. If we knew who they were, we would stay far away.

Edited 23 hours ago by Mark_fl

[DznNYC]

This forum could be a real asset to providers.  Being newer to RM, I only have 500 characters to communicate who I am and what I offer.  This offers a chance to communicate more thoughtfully and give guys on the other side of this industry a more complete view of who I am. 

But this can be a treacherous place for providers!  Many of us have scaled back participation for that reason. 

There's some really dominant toxic voices.  There's a loud peanut gallery that seems to make a hobby of comments ranging from critical to derogatory about providers they've never met or hired.  ("Needs to hit the gym," "Terrible tattoos," "Too girlie!" "Looks older than he lists,"  "PNP means he's a junkie!" "Smoker!")  There's a strong risk of slander, against which it's all but impossible to defend yourself.  (I've watched it happen to providers I know well and trust!)  And there's some known scammers - about whom we all warn each other - regularly contributing as though they're legitimate clients.  

If there were more to be gained here for us to participate, it would probably draw more of us back.  A sub-forum to promote ourselves?  Would anyone actually take advantage?  Maybe not. 

Worth noting: Every client I've met who uses this site - contributor or lurker - has been a top notch guy, just doing their research a bit more thoroughly.  So the issue really does just seem to be the loudest most toxic voices.  

[+ KensingtonHomo]

22 minutes ago, DznNYC said:

There's some really dominant toxic voices.  There's a loud peanut gallery that seems to make a hobby of comments ranging from critical to derogatory about providers they've never met or hired.  ("Needs to hit the gym," "Terrible tattoos," "Too girlie!" "Looks older than he lists,"  "PNP means he's a junkie!" "Smoker!")  There's a strong risk of slander, against which it's all but impossible to defend yourself.  (I've watched it happen to providers I know well and trust!)  And there's some known scammers - about whom we all warn each other - regularly contributing as though they're legitimate clients.  

And we all know who they are. My question is, why do the moderators tolerate this behavior? 

[Nightowl]

14 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

And we all know who they are. My question is, why do the moderators tolerate this behavior? 

I’ve wondered the same thing.

[Mark_fl]

1 hour ago, DznNYC said:

 ("Needs to hit the gym," "Terrible tattoos," "Too girlie!" "Looks older than he lists,"  "PNP means he's a junkie!" "Smoker!") 

With the exception of the accusation of being a junkie (although even that as you wrote it) these are all opinions. I'm sure all providers realize that they have characteristics that will not appeal to everyone. You can add "too muscular", "too thin" "too tall" and anything else to the list.

Are any of these comments necessary? Of course not. People can and should just move along if they don't like something (although I don't see anything wrong with a comment such as "he's georgious, but really hate tattoos).

If a provider gets bent out of shape by this sort of opinions, he's probably in the wrong line of business. Its an obvious part of putting yourself out there for sale. And you know if you weren't attractive in general, you wouldn't be hired in the first place. So you're likely pretty hot.

[+ Jamie21]

5 minutes ago, Mark_fl said:

So you're likely pretty hot.

Yeah I know. Thanks for confirming it for me.
<<stands back awaiting abuse>>
 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

16 minutes ago, Mark_fl said:

Are any of these comments necessary? Of course not. People can and should just move along if they don't like something (although I don't see anything wrong with a comment such as "he's georgious, but really hate tattoos).

If a provider gets bent out of shape by this sort of opinions, he's probably in the wrong line of business. Its an obvious part of putting yourself out there for sale.

The comments create an atmosphere of nasty bitterness. It's not just providers who have tattoos or nose rings or are feminine, fat or thin. Clients also present a wide range and are, very likely, less conventionally attractive than providers. What offends my sensibilities is that it assumes all clients are shallow, abs-obsessed, judgmental A-holes. 

We saw a provider over the weekend. On paper, he's "too short" for me. He also lacks abs but is otherwise attractive and quite fit. We initially saw him with another provider who had recommended him. The other provider (B) is more conventionally attractive than the one we fired this weekend (A). But, we ended up hiring provider (A) solo this weekend because it fits Dan Savages three Gs of a good sex partner: Good, Giving, and Game. Meanwhile, Provider B was decent in terms of sexual technique but not particularly giving or game. 

[d.anders]

1 hour ago, KensingtonHomo said:

why do the moderators tolerate this behavior?

You mean, obsessing over where a post should go isn't stressful enough? 😈  Moderating behavior? Have you ever tried that? Would you do it for free? If you start moderating what people write and how they write, in short time the board will be empty. Careful what you wish for.

Most internet forums are archaic. Young people don't and won't participate. God forbid you try to get someone under 30 use to email anymore. Writing takes time, and nobody has time. That's why the HE fraudsters can do so well.

I know from my former hairdresser partner that this question is a longtime conundrum in the intimate service industry. Is it appropriate to socialize with customers? He always said an emphatic no. My partner said it's OK to be friendly with a customer, but never assume they are your friend.

Forums like these are social environments. Some people think it's easy to mix business with social pleasure. It's not. Some guys know how to navigate challenging waters. Others turn into gold fish when facing a shark.

A review site, especially about sex, can't be a friendly place for providers by default. Who is good at accepting criticism? Do you know any actors who love their critics, and want to be social with them? Let's get real.

I've discovered several new masseurs thanks to this forum. I have also learned more about escorting. I would hate for the candid review-speak to end. If there are smart providers who wish to use the forum to self-promote and socialize with customers, then I support that. But they have to know, or learn, what they can do and what they can't do. It's kind of like joining any social club. Human nature sets the rules.

[Mark_fl]

3 hours ago, d.anders said:

 God forbid you try to get someone under 30 use to email anymore. Writing takes time, and nobody has time. 

No. It doesn't take time, and young people have nothing but time, if you look at the amount of time spent gaming and online. Not being afraid of being portrayed as a grumpy old man (I've been old since childhood), I can say what they don't have are the language skills to communicate intelligently.  A generation of texting has removed that skill. 

Edited 23 hours ago by Mark_fl

[d.anders]

1 hour ago, Mark_fl said:

No. It doesn't take time, and young people have nothing but time... A generation of texting has removed that skill. 

I was trying to be less cynical. I agree, young people have plenty of time, but far too many have no interest in what grandpa says or does. I think the "text only" and "photo required" trend, especially with gay sex workers, is only going to get worse before it gets better. The texting generation can skirt by with a failing grade in English, and attractive providers who learn how to do OnlyFans can make millions without ever seeing or visiting with a customer. Times, they are a changing. 

As for the OP's question, moving forward, I imagine trying to get anyone to join a board like this will become less and less easy.

 

[HockeyMan]

The Deli and Spas & Masseurs are not good sub-forms for providers. Review focused discussions benefit clients. This Questions About Hiring sub-forum is better for providers.

[mike carey]

11 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

Yeah I know. Thanks for confirming it for me.
<<stands back awaiting abuse>>
 

Your advantage is you could abuse them back, and they won't realise it or better, think you were being complimentary.

[SecretProvider]

I agree with everything the providers have said here, with the exception that we don't advertise here - every post here is an advertisement and a work of PR. Intentionally or not. 

I started this moniker after long time reading posts and thinking - what if I contribute and said out loud what we are thinking without the restrictions of worrying how it will affect my brand? And so many questions on threads are asked, where to me the answer seems so obvious. I wanted to participate and not be burdened by having to PR manage myself. 

For eg. One thread asked 'Would providers would prefer a nice time with a booking, or a tip'. Well, we like both, but if we had to pick one, I replied we would prefer a tip.  What followed was someone admonishing me 'instead of wanting a tip why don't you just raise your price' I replied - "well, because that wasn't an option in the question that was posed." He replied "you didn't answer my question and you are not a moderator so BUZZ OFF'.

How lovely. 

So this ignited another curiosity - what would be the result if I spit the same venom back at the people who post it here so regularly? Would it make people sit back and think 'oh this is how i sound?' Would I get pleasure ticking them off? (how many times, in ANY industry, have we wished we could tell a customer or collegue how silly we think they are. There is not one person in the world who hasn't wished they could tell their boss to go suck it.)

The experiment was doomed to fail because we are all our own hero in our own story and it often went straight over their heads. I never posted a mean comment unless it was in reply, yet the vitriol comes at me in spades. One time I even copy/pasted a comment they themselves had previously made and the person still never realized this but were of course- incredibly offended. There has also definitely been an element of 'you don't even go here!'. 'A real provider would NEVER think this!' 'My paid friends told me so, so you must be lying!' I have received some private messages of encouragement though so I guess it balances out in the end?

Anyway -  I am not surprised more providers haven't participated. You just need to read the threads and see the way providers are spoken about to see why. I can't say it better than people who are providers already have. 

SIDE NOTE-

My real life experiences with clients are for the most part, incredibly lovely. 99% of the people I actually meet are fantastic. I have had some really special and intimate moments, helped people through hard and personal times in their lives in a way that only a provider can. I have had some incredible sex with clients and even with actual porn stars, travelled to cities I otherwise would not been able to. I have clients that have become good friends. Sometimes in my head I say "man i am so lucky, I would do this for free!" I work hard and I look after myself but I am blessed that I am also attractive enough to be in the industry. I don't ever forget that, and that I am lucky and am grateful. I am not arrogant about the fact that I get to do this. I don't walk around thinking 'i deserve this'.

The experience of real life compared to this forum is like night and day.

There IS a reason more of us don't post. If people want that to change, some people here should really think about how they contribute to that.... or even dare I say it: why some of us only post anonymously?

 

[+ Jamie21]

5 hours ago, mike carey said:

Your advantage is you could abuse them back, and they won't realise it or better, think you were being complimentary.

Don’t tell everyone Mike! 😱

[Mark_fl]

5 hours ago, SecretProvider said:

5 hours ago, SecretProvider said:

SIDE NOTE-

My real life experiences with clients are for the most part, incredibly lovely.

 

If this is true, you either hide it well or focus on the 1%. On these boards I once commented that I was happy to talk to providers to ensure them that I was real and give them a sense of comfort before meeting a stranger in a strange place (as I will not send a deposit) and you immediately interpreted that and accused me of just wanting free time and getting off on some phone sex. Neither is something I want, and I don't even ask for additional pictures.

If that is your knee-jerk response, you can't convince me you have respect for potential clients. Maybe I'm wrong,  you had a bad day, and will apologize, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Edited 6 hours ago by Mark_fl

[+ BOZO T CLOWN]

21 hours ago, Mark_fl said:

With the exception of the accusation of being a junkie (although even that as you wrote it) these are all opinions. I'm sure all providers realize that they have characteristics that will not appeal to everyone. You can add "too muscular", "too thin" "too tall" and anything else to the list.

Are any of these comments necessary? Of course not. People can and should just move along if they don't like something (although I don't see anything wrong with a comment such as "he's georgious, but really hate tattoos).

If a provider gets bent out of shape by this sort of opinions, he's probably in the wrong line of business. Its an obvious part of putting yourself out there for sale. And you know if you weren't attractive in general, you wouldn't be hired in the first place. So you're likely pretty hot.

Exactly!
Based on some of the posts on this thread there are some members (both customers and providers) who don't want us to give our honest opinions. It seems that unless we are going to fawn, flatter, gush, and kvell all over these guys, we should be silent.
As long as our comments are sincere and within the bounds of fair play, as determined by the moderators, genuine and frank opinions should be encouraged. Not frowned upon or mocked.
As a wise man said, "If a provider gets bent out of shape by this sort of opinions, he's probably in the wrong line of business."

BTC
🤡

[+ Jamie21]

7 minutes ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

As long as our comments are sincere and within the bounds of fair play, as determined by the moderators, genuine and frank opinions should be encouraged. Not frowned upon or mocked.

Yes agree. I’d add however that if I genuinely wasn’t what someone thought they were hiring or my service wasn’t professional enough then I’d expect that they raised it with me privately first to give me a chance to explain or rectify it. I don’t mind fair criticism (call it feedback: which is a gift) but I’d rather it given to me first before it’s shared everywhere. The kind of review on here that says ‘x was good but for these things y and a which I raised with him and this was his reply’ is much more informative than ‘I didn’t like x’. 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

15 minutes ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

As long as our comments are sincere and within the bounds of fair play, as determined by the moderators, genuine and frank opinions should be encouraged. Not frowned upon or mocked.

But your comments are often unnecessarily unkind, shaming of providers bodies and so on. People can share their experiences and ask questions without calling the provider fat, ugly, or old. I don't find most of the guys you fawn over attractive so I keep it to myself. 

[+ BOZO T CLOWN]

9 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

But your comments are often unnecessarily unkind, shaming of providers bodies and so on.

 Simply not true.
Nothing else needs to be said other than this forum includes the sharing of opinions. If you don't agree, don't like, or don't share Bozo's opinion, you can comment or simply move on. That is what is so great about the COM site.
As an alternative to the above, you may want to put Bozo on "IGNORE". This way, you won't have to read his comments which seem to offend you so greatly. 

BTC
🤡

[+ KensingtonHomo]

18 minutes ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

Simply not true.

I don't have time to review your posts and provide a detailed assessment but it's 1,000% true. 

[d.anders]

6 hours ago, SecretProvider said:

every post here is an advertisement and a work of PR. Intentionally or not. 

This is true only if your working name is known to members. Anonymity can protect your business, but you lose the PR opportunity. However, with the private message option, you can reach out to favorite members and possibly extend your truth to them. If you are good at what you do, and you don't play silly games with members, I could see an up-side to this private club style word of mouth.

1 hour ago, Jamie21 said:

if I genuinely wasn’t what someone thought they were hiring or my service wasn’t professional enough then I’d expect that they raised it with me privately first to give me a chance to explain or rectify it. I don’t mind fair criticism

I would call this approach "professional." I would also call it mature and intelligent. Sadly, for many in the sex worker business, these words do not apply.