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for providers - the thing nobody talks about


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for providers - serious question, how do you take care of your sexual health with the current standard of unprotected sex ?  I’m not talking about hiv because that’s almost irrelevant w Prep and most positive gay men on meds.  But that leaves a lot of STIs that can still cause major problems/discomfort.

for me, condoms aren’t a moral question or decision but rather a practical one.  I just don’t want to spend unnecessary time going to the doctor, testing & then meds if I should be exposed to an sti.  
i can remember a phone call from a provider years ago saying he had an sti and I should go get tested.  I appreciated the call & sure enough - I had it too.  Ever since then it’s been condoms for me - it just seems that mixing with so many people it would be statistically difficult to manage sexual health.

Im wondering how working providers who routinely engage in unprotected sex w multiple partners can stay healthy ?   Most guys say they are tested every 2-3 months, but is that even enough ?

My understanding of DoxyPep is that it’s useful after occasional unprotected sex, but not meant as a routine - maybe I’m misinformed on that - and that really only treats Chlamydia & Syphilis, not gonorrhea and all the others.

if the providers have any tricks of the trade used to mitigate, I’d like to know that.  And is there any sort of discreet visual inspection that can be done of potential partners ?  do providers ever decline clients if something doesn’t look right ?

I don’t think anyone actually likes condoms - some people are just more risk averse than others.  And almost nobody discusses or acknowledges contracting an STI.  Honestly, this is my biggest hangup about sex.  
My sense is established professional providers are more on top of their sexual health than the average person - just another reason why I avoid the apps and prefer paid encounters.  

I’ve found almost nobody wants to discuss this subject in personal terms - it’s always in the abstract and seemingly unrealistic w very little acknowledgement of the real world. It could be my fears are unfounded - and if that’s the case, I’d like to get perspective on that too

Ive seen references in other threads about having conversations w providers about sexual health & practices - I’d like to know how that ideally goes from a providers perspective 

  And yes - I know all things carry some risk - it’s about making better choices, maybe not perfect ones.

Edited by SouthOfTheBorder
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8 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

And almost nobody discusses or acknowledges contracting an STI.  Honestly, this is my biggest hangup about sex.  

I don’t know much about you, but the providers we see are open about their STI history. 

I have friends that speak openly about STI scares. We’ve had a couple of scares but haven’t had one yet. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

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2 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I don’t know much about you, but the providers we see are open about their STI history. 

I have friends that speak openly about STI scares. We’ve had a couple of scares but haven’t had one yet. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

I think that it’s too difficult to track test results,  as once you take the test, the moment you touch someone else, your current status expires…. For example…. You’re feeling great, and you get a full panel of blood work on Monday . Tuesday afternoon you hook up with someone who has the clap and they give it to you. On Friday, you get your results that come back all negative, so you believe you have your license to ditch the condoms and hav a nice hot time over the weekend. You have naively exposed your weekend partners to the clap, but not intentionally. 
 

Test results are only impactful if the tested individual abstains from sex from the date they’ve been tested until The date they have sex with you. Otherwise, test results are pointless. 
 

This is also why testing has holes in it, in the porn industry. Once the circle of actors (who may have negative test results), have sex outside of their circle of tested peers, they all can get exposed. 
 

Edited by Monarchy79
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28 minutes ago, Monarchy79 said:

Test results are only impactful if the tested individual abstains from sex from the date they’ve been tested until The date they have sex with you. Otherwise, test results are pointless. 
 

Exactly!

This is why I don't understand all the "recent experience?" questions in the Deli, when there are reviews provided from 6 months earlier on the same thread.  If a man is going to bareback with a stranger, wouldn't it make sense to look for someone who DOESN'T have any reviews from the past 6 months so maybe that's a sign they've been celibate and their test results might be current?!  For safety, someone shouldn't want to hookup with someone else who has been reviewed in the past month, lest they won't have had time for testing and treatment! 😇

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4 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

Exactly!

This is why I don't understand all the "recent experience?" questions in the Deli, when there are reviews provided from 6 months earlier on the same thread.  If a man is going to bareback with a stranger, wouldn't it make sense to look for someone who DOESN'T have any reviews from the past 6 months so maybe that's a sign they've been celibate and their test results might be current?!  For safety, someone shouldn't want to hookup with someone else who has been reviewed in the past month, lest they won't have had time for testing and treatment! 😇

1. Bold to assume all clients left a review

2. Safest approach would be stop bareback with escorts or strangers altogether

3. Hiring is a risky game; bareback and hiring is a conscious choice

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1 minute ago, Your Man in Arlington said:

While it's one less transmission route, unless your using condoms for oral, aren't you still putting yourself at risk for exposure to STIs?

My thoughts exactly, and the main reason I’ve only had two hookups in the last year (one escort, one via Grindr).  I have become increasingly terrified of STIs since the pandemic, and despite having never barebacked in my life (and barely fucked at all), I’m reluctant to start using condoms for oral.  And on top of things, I’m a makeout monster (can’t fathom having a hookup without heavy kissing), and back when I was hooking up with slightly more regularity, I would get strep throat at least once a year… lord knows what I would get now.

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31 minutes ago, ShortCutie7 said:

My thoughts exactly, and the main reason I’ve only had two hookups in the last year (one escort, one via Grindr).  I have become increasingly terrified of STIs since the pandemic, and despite having never barebacked in my life (and barely fucked at all), I’m reluctant to start using condoms for oral.  And on top of things, I’m a makeout monster (can’t fathom having a hookup without heavy kissing), and back when I was hooking up with slightly more regularity, I would get strep throat at least once a year… lord knows what I would get now.

But COVID hasn't made STIs more plentiful or different. Gonorrhea is indeed becoming treatment-resistant, which is a concern, but if you're working with guys who are careful about their health, you're probably going to be fine. We've had two instances in the past five years where a provider contacted us to say they tested positive for an STI. So we went and got tested. Neither time did we have the STI. 

Now, I'm an anxious person, so I understand that fear is irrational, but I think the odds are in your favor. 

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This is an important topic and one which deserves serious consideration.Thanks for raising it! 

I guess I’m having a lot more sex with different guys than someone who doesn’t do sex work so one might assume that I’d catch things. Especially because the majority of the sex I have is condom less. Most people I see don’t want to use a condom for sex and certainly in the porn I do it’s never with a condom. I think what people see on porn is what they like or want to do in sessions so that ‘no condom’ thing transfers over. Those clients that might want to use a condom because of concerns about STD’s tend to go for action that doesn’t include penetration (oral obviously doesn’t count as penetration!).

However, in the years I’ve been doing sex work I can’t think of any occasions when I’ve caught something from a client, and two occasions when I’ve caught something from another porn performer. It’s actually quite rare and in my check ups (every 3m) I’m clear. 

I think the chances of catching something are far higher when attending sex parties or sex clubs / saunas. The reason? People who do sex work are fastidious about sexual health check ups because if they catch something then they’re unable to work for 2 weeks. Guys that go to these parties and clubs are less careful and get tested less frequently.

So whatI think is that if you see a professional then it’s probably a lot safer than if you see someone off a hookup app or at a sauna or club. 

 

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39 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

But COVID hasn't made STIs more plentiful or different. Gonorrhea is indeed becoming treatment-resistant, which is a concern, but if you're working with guys who are careful about their health, you're probably going to be fine. We've had two instances in the past five years where a provider contacted us to say they tested positive for an STI. So we went and got tested. Neither time did we have the STI. 

Now, I'm an anxious person, so I understand that fear is irrational, but I think the odds are in your favor. 

Absolutely!  The relationship to COVID is that it has made me more fearful of sickness in general.

 

18 minutes ago, Jamie21 said:

 

So whatI think is that if you see a professional then it’s probably a lot safer than if you see someone off a hookup app or at a sauna or club. 

 

Agreed, that’s one of the main reasons I started looking into seeing professionals.

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29 minutes ago, Jamie21 said:

This is an important topic and one which deserves serious consideration.Thanks for raising it! 

I guess I’m having a lot more sex with different guys than someone who doesn’t do sex work so one might assume that I’d catch things. Especially because the majority of the sex I have is condom less. Most people I see don’t want to use a condom for sex and certainly in the porn I do it’s never with a condom. I think what people see on porn is what they like or want to do in sessions so that ‘no condom’ thing transfers over. Those clients that might want to use a condom because of concerns about STD’s tend to go for action that doesn’t include penetration (oral obviously doesn’t count as penetration!).

However, in the years I’ve been doing sex work I can’t think of any occasions when I’ve caught something from a client, and two occasions when I’ve caught something from another porn performer. It’s actually quite rare and in my check ups (every 3m) I’m clear. 

I think the chances of catching something are far higher when attending sex parties or sex clubs / saunas. The reason? People who do sex work are fastidious about sexual health check ups because if they catch something then they’re unable to work for 2 weeks. Guys that go to these parties and clubs are less careful and get tested less frequently.

So whatI think is that if you see a professional then it’s probably a lot safer than if you see someone off a hookup app or at a sauna or club. 

 

Thanks for this.  I have to admit I am taking a risk, but I only do that with one provider.  I have seen him for over a year and he has assured me he stays on top of things, so I am trusting what he tells me.  Nevertheless, I get that I am rolling the dice.

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19 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

for me, condoms aren’t a moral question or decision but rather a practical one.  I just don’t want to spend unnecessary time going to the doctor, testing & then meds if I should be exposed to an sti.  
i can remember a phone call from a provider years ago saying he had an sti and I should go get tested.  I appreciated the call & sure enough - I had it too.  Ever since then it’s been condoms for me - it just seems that mixing with so many people it would be statistically difficult to manage sexual health.

I know I'm not a provider, but I've done plenty of work in non-profits dedicated to the physical and mental well-being of men, especially gay men, including a sector of the provider community that is typically at higher risk, so something that can be mentioned is that yes, condoms definitely help reducing the chances of an STIs, but does not eliminate them. Some STI's can be acquired orally by just kissing, and there are other things that are not necessarily considered STIs that can also be acquired with sexual contact, such as a the flu, crabs, and others.

My point with this is that it's important to remember that there's always risk, and what we can do is reduce the level of risk, not eliminate it. Yes, condoms help and are recommended for those who want to use protection, but we should keep in mind that all they do is resuce risk. It's a false sense of security to think that using condoms will not require ongoing testing if you are sexually active.

Also, there is a sector of the provider community that takes good care of themselves, which also reduces the risk of spread and transmission. I imagine you are greateful that the provider who called you did so. There's another sector of the provider community that is at a higher risk since they just work on the streets. Of course, that provides a higher health and personal safety risk.

Regardless of the use or non-use of condoms, as a sexually active person, I still make sure that everything is ok and get tested for things. I have a good relationship with my doctor, and (now a) she has conversations with me where I am candid about who/what I've done, for her to determine the appropriate testing recommendations.

My concern is that some people might just feel that they don;t need to test or that they are completely safe because they use condoms.

Just my two cents.

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2 hours ago, Your Man in Arlington said:

While it's one less transmission route, unless your using condoms for oral, aren't you still putting yourself at risk for exposure to STIs?

Not as much of a risk. 
barebacking during anal has a significantly higher transmission risk of infections than condomless oral, for various reasons. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Jamie21 said:

. I think what people see on porn is what they like or want to do in sessions so that ‘no condom’ thing transfers over

one of the reasons I started this thread is that I always feel like the odd man out - when I’m requesting a top use a condom or I choose to use one as top.  
as @Jamie21 says - the discontinuation of condoms in porn in seems to carry over into real life.  That combined with new morning after pills (DoxyPep) appears to have been a game-changer.  Among younger people and providers - the default now is no condoms.

Truth to be told - I don’t want to use condoms either.  I much prefer the intimacy & no-fuss of condomless sex.  The thing is I’m outside of the US (my home country) about 75% of the time and I can’t imagine dealing with STI testing & treatment in foreign places.  It’s definitely doable - but at what cost in finding healthcare, language barriers & general frustration ?

31 minutes ago, soloyo215 said:

that some people might just feel that they don;t need to test or that they are completely safe because they use condoms.

And as @soloyo215 rightly points out, condoms are not 100% effective either, although they do significantly mitigate the probability of STI transmission.

I love sex.  I’d have a lot more of it if not for my anxiety around STIs.  I have a partner & we have a fulfilling & robust sex life still going after 16 years.  And I still like some variety now & again by way of providers.  For me, it’s about making better choices to reduce the chances of STI transmission for me & my partners.  Condom use is my default,  but I’m not 100% perfect on that.  There are times when I’ve made a different decision for one reason or another.  It’s also about context - I’d never go bareback in a sauna or in a public setting.  I might choose to do it with a provider who I’ve known over time.

I just feel like this whole topic is something very confusing. The messaging we receive is condomless sex is now the standard & everybody is doing it that way.  Yet, when I visit my doc in NYC w a primary gay practice, he tells me that some STIs are showing signs of abating & others are skyrocketing (gonorrhea).  I also understand that I am responsible for my choices & my sexual health - nobody else.

My worst STI experience over the years has been parasites from rimming. I had it 2x.  Incredibly painful & not easy to diagnose or know what’s happening unless you’ve had it before.  To diagnose properly it requires a stool sample.  It’s easily curable once you get the diagnosis and right meds (Flagyl).  But in general - a horrible experience.  Needless to say, rimming is off the table for me now based on those 2 experiences.

im really interested in “tricks of the trade” to reduce STI transmission.  One very well known provider I hired arrived with a gym bag full of his personal cleansing routine for after session.  I noticed antibacterial soaps, mouthwash, etc - he spent about 30 minutes in a hot shower in a complete scrubdown. I’ve also been told it’s very important to pee right after sex to help in clearing any bacteria.  I’m wondering if after rinse in the butt would help too ?  I’ve seen blogs by female providers saying they do “dick checks” on clients as one way to mitigate - not foolproof of course, but maybe a way to see something obvious.  As mentioned - these are the things nobody talks about.

 

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My tactics: visual inspection of clients, care about the kind of clients I take on (no last minute late night requests for ‘half hour’ sessions…that kind of thing), doxy prep occasionally, fastidious about regular check ups, vaccination (hep c, monkey pox), prep daily (obviously), mouthwash and pee afterwards, douche after bottoming (if practical), no drugs, no alcohol , no poppers (not for me anyway, clients can). But at the end of the day there’s risks with everything, I’m not going to be silly but I’m also not a monk…(happy to dress up as one and role play it though if that’s any client’s  thing 😂).

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I have regular checks (every month or 2, depends of how often I have unprotected sex)plus my body always have symptoms if something is wrong.

Your question is understandable towards us providers but keep in mind that an average gay in a big city have unprotected sex with multiple partners daily.

Personally I have less casual sex (grindr, bars, clubs, parties, orgies) and I focus mainly on my health and status so I'm more comfortable clients that ask me if we can do bb (if we do both have tested recently, on prep and "feel" healthy).

Yes, I do a visual inspection and yes it happened that I insisted on wearing a condom or refused to be breeded.

If you don't wanna catch STI then use condoms, if you wanna do bb then that's a risk. If you have a wife at home it's on you having unprotected sex with risk of bringing home something.

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1 hour ago, boyfriend_experience said:

Your question is understandable towards us providers but keep in mind that an average gay in a big city have unprotected sex with multiple partners daily.

agree - the question was to providers because the job depends on being healthy.  my assumption was providers would be more likely to engage in safer practices & mitigation than the average city person on the apps.

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2 hours ago, boyfriend_experience said:

keep in mind that an average gay in a big city have unprotected sex with multiple partners daily.

^This!!!

Here is my two cents in typical long form fashion.

Firstly, thank you @SouthOfTheBorder for posting this topic. Clients don’t want to talk or think about these things. So many people are immature when it comes to discussing sexual health. Our culture stigmatizes people for wanting - and having - sex. Our culture looks down on sex workers and treats us as scapegoats. We’re the “dirty” ones, the irresponsible, the depraved. But that’s just not true. If anything, professional sex workers are much more responsible and informed than the average person with regard to managing risks, maintaining good sexual health, communicating with their partners, and guarding their personal safety.

For every sketchy provider story I hear about on here, there are half a dozen experienced working men doing the right things and handling business professionally, not doing drugs or extorting people or behaving recklessly. The negative stories stick out more so we tend to focus on those. In between the horror stories are many good guys doing good work.

I’ll share the following because I know that many of you respect honesty and straight talk. A lot of providers don’t want to share this type of stuff openly because many clients are uneducated and carry around unfair biases and misinformation around sex and sexual health and use it to demonize us. The concern is clients will hold such information against us thinking “So-and-so had such and such last year. Ohhh better not hire him because I might catch the same thing”. It’s not fair because your average msm bareback hookup is going to be a much higher risk to you than hiring a professional. Hiring an experienced pro with a head on his shoulders is going to be relatively much safer for you than random sex in the wild. Clients on this platform are more educated than average on such matters, so perhaps I am preaching to the choir - still stigma persists no matter what we share or keep silent on. That’s why we don’t talk about this stuff very often. Also, it’s not sexy. But it’s important just the same.

Non-provider men similar to me have WAAAY more unprotected casual sex than I do, and they only get checked every three months (at best!). Most of them are on PreP and bareback exclusively. Doctors in the US require quarterly testing for patients receiving a PreP regimen, so that’s normal. Some of my peers are not on PreP and don’t know their HIV status, much less whether they are spreading STIs around because they are not testing on any regular basis - perhaps only if/when they experience symptoms (and not everyone experiences symptoms). Many straight-curious and bi men fall into this category, but any type can. If they test, it might be only once or twice a year. Your best case scenario outside of hiring is a conscientious gay guy getting tested every three months.

I test every month because of my work. Not because I have more sex than others, but because I care a great deal about my clients, my own health, and my ability to work. Monthly testing only leaves a small window for anything to happen and me not know about it. Keep in mind when you test, you are not clear as of that date you test. You are clear as of 10-14 days or so prior to the date you test, perhaps less. Incubation periods take time for the infection to show up on a test and to be communicable to others. Verify this info with your healthcare provider, as I am not your doctor. I merely bring up the point to clarify testing is not an up-to-the-minute snapshot of what is in your body - rather a snapshot of what has developed in your body (or not) over a period of time since your last exposure up to the time you test.

For example, I had a session last year for a client with multiple providers in which I had unprotected sex (bottom) with one of the providers. I topped the client and another provider in that session. As it so happened, I tested on my monthly schedule the following day. A couple days later I got the test results and all was negative. Little did I know one provider I was exposed to during that encounter passed an STI on to me. Given my activities in the weeks surrounding the encounter, I was able to confirm by process of elimination who it was and when. I topped clients, as I typically do, in the following weeks without knowing any of this, and thankfully did not expose any of them to an infection since the infection was rectal only. On my next test, I caught the issue and immediately alerted a few people who may have been exposed based on the activities with which we had recently engaged. It was only a two week or so window that I potentially passed it on and was yet unaware I had an infection. Since I have much fewer clients engaging me for bottom and/or bottom-adjacent activities, it was pretty easy to identify the few that may have been exposed in that short window. Since I test so frequently, I fortunately had the opportunity to give them all quick notice to get tested and/or treated before an infection had enough time to develop, express symptoms, and/or be passed on to anyone else. Here is a client response:

IMG_0051.thumb.jpeg.099805a7a0dd5dc4398eac49aee5461c.jpeg
I love my regular clients. Most them are really good people.

Aside - the provider I got the infection from is married to another provider. Given they have frequent unprotected sex with one another and with all of their respective clients, the risks for them are necessarily higher than your average working guy. Keep this in mind when hiring a provider couple, or one of a pair of providers. Not to stigmatize, but to measure your risk.

I have a fraction of the sex of men similar to me, and it’s generally with people who a) are more conscious about the risks they are taking, b) have much less sex on average, and c) practice safer sex -maybe 10-20%.

Every provider is different. Some have more recreational sex, some have less. Some have riskier sex, some safer sex, perhaps some mix of both. I’d say that providers tend to have much less recreational sex than their peers, if not by intentional choice, than by the mere practical realities of being in this business. That’s me. One cannot be blowing loads recreationally right and left and expect to have any sexual energy left for his clients to enjoy. 

Sex carries some risk no matter how much or little sex you have, be it protected or unprotected. Having sex exposes you to the possibility of contracting sexually transmitted infections, full stop. How much risk you are willing to tolerate is up to you. We have many other threads in the forums on how to mitigate risks, like oral vs anal, top vs bottom play, using condoms, vetting your guys, etc, so I won’t get into all those here. My point is you have to be responsible for your own health and assess your own personal level of risk tolerance.

For the married/attached guys out there regularly having sex with their significant other, it’s best to keep open communication with your partner/spouse about your hiring. I know many of you don’t share for various reasons, so you risk inadvertently passing an STI on to your partner, and that is a much more difficult conversation to have than discussing the boundaries of your relationship beforehand. I suppose, if you’re not having sex with your partner, you can manage your own sexual health without your partner needing to know anything about your hiring or hooking up habits. Assess and manage your personal level risk, and get tested regularly in proportion to that risk and treat infections promptly if/when they manifest. Simple as that. Better yet, if you’re able, get on PreP and follow the required testing regimen. I know many won’t for shared health record privacy concerns. Talk to your significant other. Sooner or later things will surface. One of my clients likes to bareback flip fuck and he regularly has sex with his wife. I am upfront with him about all of my sexual health and relative risks. He wants the sex anyway. Hey, to each his own.

This is our livelihood. It behooves us to stay healthy, obviously for our own sake, but also for the sake of our business. We can’t make money when we are recovering from a sexually transmitted infection. For masseurs like myself, I can’t offer escort service, but I can still massage, sans the extras I otherwise might offer during my recovery, nor can I offer combo massage / sex work service. It puts a damper on what I can earn in that 1-2 week period. For the full time escorts out there, they can’t earn a dime unless they are knowingly putting their clients at risk, which is not only problematic from an ethical and moral perspective, but also just doesn’t make business sense to do. We have too much to lose by damaging our reputations in this way.

So…in a sense, seeing a responsible, professional provider may actually carry, in many ways, less risk than having casual recreational sex with the average man who has sex with men. I don’t mean zero risk. Less risk.

I agree with much of the other posters on mitigating risk with visual checks, mouthwash, peeing after sex, washing, etc. Never a bad idea, but all of these are marginal at best in helping reduce your risk. If you have the sex at all, you already took on the risk. Very little in the form of after care will prevent you from getting STIs.

We sex workers take on this personal level of risk and manage that risk as best we can. That’s part of what you’re paying us for. Think like how much you pay an oil rigger vs a controlled environment factory line worker. One job is inherently more risky, so you compensate it more to account for that level of risk and damage control.

When your providers inform you that you may have been exposed to an STI, they are being responsible and doing the right thing. Please do not stigmatize them or punish them for doing their job or for taking on reasonable levels of risk that this job requires. Honor them and show them respect. Keep hiring us when we are well, because we are responsible and professional, and we care.

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11 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

I’ll share the following because I know that many of you respect honesty and straight talk. A lot of providers don’t want to share this type of stuff openly because many clients are uneducated and carry around unfair biases and misinformation around sex and sexual health and use it to demonize us. The concern is clients will hold such information against us thinking “So-and-so had such and such last year. Ohhh better not hire him because I might catch the same thing”. It’s not fair because your average msm bareback hookup is going to be a much higher risk to you than hiring a professional. Hiring an experienced pro with a head on his shoulders is going to be relatively much safer for you than random sex in the wild

@Simon Suraci thank you for this candid post.

my sense has always been sex w established providers is safer in all respects vs random guys in the wild.  

the reasons nobody wants to discuss STIs in personal terms are very complicated -  there’s the general shame one feels for having contracted an STI, potential shaming from healthcare providers, potential stigma by others and then there’s just not wanting to ruin the fantasy that is largely driven by unrealistic porn that almost everyone consumes these days.  

I’m lucky - I live in a big city with easy access to non-judgmental healthcare, but yet I still feel like I failed or did something wrong when contracted an STI in the past.  I don’t have much sex compared to the average person in a big city & don’t participate in the apps - I practice safer sex w condoms most of the time.  And yet - it has happened to me.  And if it’s happening to me, then it’s happening to many others as well.  They just don’t talk about it. 

Now, when hiring providers - the first in-person conversation is about sexual health and how we can proceed.  It’s not sexy, but it’s honest and can build trust immediately.  Trust & honesty = better sex.  Uncomfortable conversations are frequently the most necessary conversations.

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I really appreciate @Simon Suraci thoughtful and honest post. We have had two providers who alerted us following a session that they tested positive for an STI. In both cases, our response was similar to Simon's client. We're Gen X and used to testing for HIV and having the sharing of that information be urgent. 

So we are always grateful for providers being honest. We keep it to ourselves of course. And we've never actually had an STI from a provider. 

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15 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

That’s part of what you’re paying us for. 

This is a much more powerful justification for the building blocks of payment than typically presented. And I doubt every provider thinks this way - but 100% respect for those that do. 

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