"Nobody loves you when you're old and gay"

[+ Charlie]

I wonder if there is anyone else here who is dealing with a situation similar to mine. I am now basically the fulltime caregiver for a spouse who is several years older than I am, and in steady decline, both physically and mentally (advanced Alzheimer's). He comes from a large family, which includes a younger brother, a married nephew and an unmarried niece, all of whom are both able and willing to assume responsibility for him if anything were to happen to me. However, I have no family; I was an only child, so I not only have no siblings, I also have no nieces or nephews; my closest blood relations are a couple of younger cousins whom I barely know, no one from a younger generation to take care of me if I become unable to care for myself. If I should need care while my spouse is still alive, I have no doubt his brother, niece and nephew would take care of both of us. But there is a good possibility that I will outlive my spouse, possibly for many years. My spouse and I have been together for 55 years, so his brother has known me since he was a college kid (he's now 75);  his children have known me all their lives, and sometimes even refer to me as "Uncle Charlie." Nevertheless, I wonder if they would feel the same kind of  responsibility to to take care of me after their brother and uncle is gone, even though it would probably not impose a financial burden on them. I like them and trust them, but I don't think I should expect the same commitment from them that I would expect from my own family members, if I had any.

If anyone here is in a similar situation, what kind of plans have you made for a future in which you might no longer be able to care for yourself?

 

[soloyo215]

First, my heart goes to you and  your spouse. I am not in the same situation, as I do have siblings, but I cannot count on any of them. I have a great relationship with my inlaws and I feel comfortable that they can or will help me if I lose my husband.

Have you considered having a conversation with your spouses relatives? Bringing that subject might not be easy, and it's ambarassing, but having clarity might help you make the necessary plans for the future. I'm also glad that you are bringing that subject up now, not at the time when you are already alone. I think this might be the time to start making plans and having conversations with key people (I imagine that after 55 years, many of your matters around the business of life are in order).

It is scary for many of us being old, sick and alone. That's particularly terrifying for gay men of the older generation, especially looking at the way the so-called "community" is now. I think reaching out to people now might be useful for you to have a clue of what you could expect should you find yourself alone.

[+ jessmapex]

Your post made my eyes tear up.

I am probably 15-20 yrs away from this (most likely much less than that) and my situation is different. I have never been able to find a spouse, let alone a bf. I have an older brother, but i can not count on him or my niece or nephew in my old and frail days. I had a couple of gay best friends and my hope was they would be around to at least keep an eye on me even if I could not expect them to take care of me. But they too drifted apart during Covid stresses.

My only hope is with my retirement savings i will be able to afford some elder care or a nursing home. I am also researching into options to make it financially attractive to a younger gay man to keep me alive and well. Life insurance alone would make a caretaker want me to pass away sooner than later.

In my 50s itself i am feeling discarded enough to dread what life would be like when i am frail. I am also actively looking in to options to end my life on a high note before i reach a point where i am unable to physically take care of myself.

Meanwhile my gay 'community' at work is fighting with the corporate IT to allow the company chat system to display a person's preferred pronouns.

Edited November 13, 2023 by jessmapex

[+ BobPS]

2 hours ago, Charlie said:

I wonder if there is anyone else here who is dealing with a situation similar to mine. I am now basically the fulltime caregiver for a spouse who is several years older than I am, and in steady decline, both physically and mentally (advanced Alzheimer's). He comes from a large family, which includes a younger brother, a married nephew and an unmarried niece, all of whom are both able and willing to assume responsibility for him if anything were to happen to me. However, I have no family; I was an only child, so I not only have no siblings, I also have no nieces or nephews; my closest blood relations are a couple of younger cousins whom I barely know, no one from a younger generation to take care of me if I become unable to care for myself. If I should need care while my spouse is still alive, I have no doubt his brother, niece and nephew would take care of both of us. But there is a good possibility that I will outlive my spouse, possibly for many years. My spouse and I have been together for 55 years, so his brother has known me since he was a college kid (he's now 75);  his children have known me all their lives, and sometimes even refer to me as "Uncle Charlie." Nevertheless, I wonder if they would feel the same kind of  responsibility to to take care of me after their brother and uncle is gone, even though it would probably not impose a financial burden on them. I like them and trust them, but I don't think I should expect the same commitment from them that I would expect from my own family members, if I had any.

If anyone here is in a similar situation, what kind of plans have you made for a future in which you might no longer be able to care for yourself?

 

I’m pretty much in the same situation except I don’t have a spouse. I really haven’t thought about it as much as I should because I think, subconsciously, I’ve been avoiding the subject. I have given two good friends, power of attorney with regard to my medical treatment and finances if I become incapacitated. 

[+ nycman]

First, I want to thank @Charlie for bringing up a difficult topic that most of us would just rather avoid. Unfortunately, I’ve seen the results of ignoring this topic. Spoiler alert: it doesn’t end pretty. Planning and open honest discussions are everything. 

For context, I have an older brother…useless. Two nephews….both very kind, both very useless. 

The best advice I can give is to work closely with an estate planner to ensure you have the resources available to provide care for yourself. As always talking with your accountant and lawyer about these things is a good idea. They’ve seen hundreds of scenarios (the good, the bad, and the ugly) play out over their careers. Listen to them, even if what they’re telling you sounds harsh and/or unpleasant. They know what works, and what doesn’t work.

Also, make sure everyone around you knows your exit plan. It’s different for all of us. So far, knowing I have an escape hatch, has brought me great calm and helped me survive life’s inevitable rough spots. As they say in disaster planning: during a disaster, nothing will go the way you planned, but at least you had a plan

Finally, go out of your way to engage with people younger than you. Yes, this can be incredibly difficult. You will have to endure listening to them talk about things that you find banal and/or that to which you can’t even remotely relate. You will worry about your relationship being a "burden" on them. They will have to endure listening to you bitch about how much you hate getting older (hint: don’t do it. No one cares and they will start avoiding you if you do.). Be exceedingly kind, generous, and patient with them. In other words, be the friend you want to have. Nothing more, nothing less. At first it may feel strained or artificial. Do it anyways. Bonds develop over time. Most of us sell ourselves short on what we bring to the table for a younger generation. The friends I have watched "grow old gracefully" were the ones who mastered this step most of all. 

On a funny note, the other day I was musing out loud about this topic with my trainer. He unexpectedly piped in with “don’t worry about it bro, that’s what you have me for". I shot back with "I’m talking about the hard part, like having someone to wipe my ass, not someone to count to ten at my bedside". His response?…"the only hard part is going to be keeping you from grabbing my ass while I’m wiping yours." We both had a good laugh and got back to the work out. He’s not my Plan A, but it’s nice to know he wants to be there. 

[+ Charlie]

At least we do have some things settled--on paper, that is. My brother-in-law is executor of our estate and has both financial and health care power of attorney for both of us, with his daughter as the back-up. (She is a high-powered lawyer, which is reassuring.) But whenever I have brought up my concerns, he always simply says, "Don't worry, I can always get on a plane and come to deal with things quickly." The lawyer daughter always says the same thing: "Don't worry, we can deal with whatever happens," and I'm sure they believe that. But they live a thousand miles away, and I suspect that their way to deal with things will be the way that is most convenient for them, which probably means moving one or both of us close to them, in a place where neither of us knows anyone else. I don't blame them for that--I would probably do the same in their shoes--but that is not where I want to spend the rest of my life.

I have always had close friends, the kind of people to whom I would feel safe giving control of my financial affairs, but the problem with old friends is exactly the fact that they are old, and the likelihood that they would be capable of taking care of me in the future gets more tenuous every day. It's all very well to say one should engage more with younger people, but that is easier said than done, especially when one lives in a geriatric community and is tied down as a fulltime caregiver for another old person. I have only one good friend who is much younger than I am, and although she is very understanding of my situation, she has a very busy life of her own, and I don't feel justified in asking more of her than sympathy and advice (her own mother died last year of Alzheimer's).

We do have a dependable financial advisor, so I am sure that we have the financial resources for our care, but I do like your advice of meeting with a professional estate planner to possibly get another perspective on things we may not have thought about.

[Rudynate]

My husband and I talk about it with each other, but we haven't talked with any friends or family members about it.  My family is utterly useless.  My husband's sibs are our age or older. We had  named my sister as our attorney in fact, our trustee and our executor,  but I just don't think she will be reliable,  so I'm having our plan amended.  My investment adviser is really solid and I want to bring it up with him, but havent yet.  Living with an autoimmune problem for the last 18 months has convinced me that I won't live forever, so we definitely nned to take more positive steps than we have. 

[ericwinters]

9 hours ago, jessmapex said:

Your post made my eyes tear up.

I am probably 15-20 yrs away from this (most likely much less than that) and my situation is different. I have never been able to find a spouse, let alone a bf. I have an older brother, but i can not count on him or my niece or nephew in my old and frail days. I had a couple of gay best friends and my hope was they would be around to at least keep an eye on me even if I could not expect them to take care of me. But they too drifted apart during Covid stresses.

My only hope is with my retirement savings i will be able to afford some elder care or a nursing home. I am also researching into options to make it financially attractive to a younger gay man to keep me alive and well. Life insurance alone would make a caretaker want me to pass away sooner than later.

In my 50s itself i am feeling discarded enough to dread what life would be like when i am frail. I am also actively looking in to options to end my life on a high note before i reach a point where i am unable to physically take care of myself.

Meanwhile my gay 'community' at work is fighting with the corporate IT to allow the company chat system to display a person's preferred pronouns.

I am right there with you... Thinking about a "its my party" kind of ending. While that movie moved me to tears, it is what I think I want at 52.

[+ Pensant]

8 hours ago, nycman said:

Most of us sell ourselves short on what we bring to the table for a younger generation.

I heartily agree. I have many younger friends. The best ones are straight. They seem more centered and reliable than my younger and, sadly, flakey gay ones.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Pensant

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Pensant said:

I heartily agree. I have many younger friends. The best ones are straight. They seem more centered and reliable than my younger and, sadly, flakey gay ones.

One of the big mistakes a lot of gay men seem to make is isolating themselves from the real world. Going to gay bars, gay restaurants, gay cruises and only keeping up with their gay friends.

Straight people have large family affairs, weddings and children. One of the great joys in life (for me) is seeing those kids grow up. I just attended a wedding last weekend for my niece. Being "Uncle" whether by blood or friendship is certainly a resource for late-in-life love and support when you spend your early years being a supportive "family" member for the younger generation.

 

[+ jessmapex]

2 hours ago, Pensant said:

I heartily agree. I have many younger friends. The best ones are straight. They seem more centered and reliable than my younger and, sadly, flakey gay ones.

100% . When i was a 20something gay man, i remember wanting to be only with guys around my age. Older men were invisible to me. Now the tables have turned. But judging from own attitude back then I expect to be invisible to the younger gay men.

Str8/bi guys do make for a better company and i feel less judged by them. 

The 1998 film Gods and Monsters based on James Whale's life portrayed the bond between an older gay man and his str8 muse quite well.

[CuriousByNature]

You know what it's like to be a caregiver - you know the fatigue, the worry, the loneliness of it.  In your kindness it's clear that you do not want to be a 'burden' on anyone, but in a sense, you're generosity of heart may inadvertently stand in the way of allowing others to extend graciousness towards you.  I mean this in the best possible way and I apologize in advance if anything comes across as judgemental.  It can be easy for caregivers, especially those who may not have an avenue for venting their own pain and frustrations, to want to protect others from a similar caregiving situation when it comes to needing care yourself.  It isn' easy.  But I would only hope that your spouse's family loves you, and would want to see you safe and secure in your later years. 

If that isn't practical for whatever reason, I would suggest speaking with a social worker sooner than later.  Let them know your situation and your concerns - they have seen it all.  It's invaluable having an advocate who knows the ins and outs of the system and has the resources and time to be of assistance.   

In Canada we have tiered senior's care at some residences, with sections for those who essentially live independently, and other sections for those who need to transition into supportive living (often with a bug bump in monthly fees, of course).  More and more jurisdictions are coming to realize the importance of aging in place, and the 'continuum of care' approach to elder care.  There may also be other resources available through local churches or senior centres.  In any case, I know you are not seeking praise, but as a dedicated care giver, you are an unsung hero, and I sincerely hope everything works out well for you and your spouse.

[pubic_assistance]

I am recently dealing with a situation involving an elderly gay friend.

One of my long time clients retired and moved to Florida ten years ago. He's now in his 90s' and all of his friends down there have since passed away. He moved into an elder-care facility which is lovely and well run, but he's extremely lonely. He reached out to me a couple months ago, hoping I could give him some advice. I've been back and forth a few times searching for a facility that has other gay men for him to socialize with because he is of that generation who spent so much of their time only hanging around gay bars, and gay friends that he is uncomfortable being around straight people. They show him pictures of their grandchildren and talk about their family as part of their social life.  I noticed this makes him feel inferior, no matter how much I keep telling him, that he doesn't need to be the same as everyone else, and he can share the joy without showing pictures he doesn't have. He just can't do it.  It's a missed opportunity for him to be happy in a very nice facility, but you can't change a tiger's stripes so late in life. I think perhaps he never planned to live to 90 because there seems to be little planning for who's going to manage his needs and how his social life is going to function. Hopeful, I can find a facility that is more familiar with some Appletinis in the lounge and a piano bar where everyone sings show tunes.

Edited November 13, 2023 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[Rudynate]

Many years ago, in law school, I took an elective in healthcare law.  One of the factoids I gleaned from that course was that our preference for the institutional model of senior care doesn't make any sense because home care costs far less and most seniors prefer to age in place.  When my husband's mother needed care, they literally had to sell the family farm to pay for it. Two years of care in a high-end facility cost about $100k.  I have known two guys who owned nursing home companies and they both were VERY well off - not just comfortable but wealthy. Just recently, I read that home care costs about half of what intitutional care costs.  I have a friend who is 92 and he has someone who manages his financial affairs for him who he pays $50.00/hr and he has two  part-time care givers and a cleaning lady.  I keep a close eye on everything because I'm his attorney-in-fact and his trustee/executor. 

[Rudynate]

16 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

I am recently dealing with a situation involving an elderly gay friend.

One of my long time clients retired and moved to Florida ten years ago. He's now in his 90s' and all of his friends down there have since passed away. He moved into an elder-care facility which is lovely and well run, but he's extremely lonely. He reached out to me a couple months ago, hoping I could give him some advice. I've been back and forth a few times searching for a facility that has other gay men for him to socialize with because he is of that generation who spent so much of their time only hanging around gay bars, and gay friends that he is uncomfortable being around straight people. They show him pictures of their grandchildren and talk about their family as part of their social life.  I noticed this makes him feel inferior, no matter how much I keep telling him, that he doesn't need to be the same as everyone else, and he can share the joy without showing pictures he doesn't have. He just can't do it.  It's a missed opportunity for him to be happy in a very nice facility, but you can't change a tiger's stripes so late in life. I think perhaps he never planned to live to 90 because there seems to be little planning for who's going to manage his need and how his social life is going to function. Hopeful, I can find a facility that is more familiar with some Appletinis in the lounge and a piano bar where everyone sings show tunes.

It isn't that he can't fit in, it's that he's stuck in a care facility.  My mother-in-law lived in one of those "very nice" facilities.  It looked like a luxury hotel, the food was terrific and they all hated it - they all just wanted to go home.   When my father's health failed, we started looking for a home for him.  We even had him try a one-week stay in a Prebyterian home - a "very nice" facility.  He said none of the residents ever left their rooms or socialized with each other needless to say, he hated it. 

[Rudynate]

47 minutes ago, jessmapex said:

100% . When i was a 20something gay man, i remember wanting to be only with guys around my age. Older men were invisible to me. Now the tables have turned. But judging from own attitude back then I expect to be invisible to the younger gay men.

Str8/bi guys do make for a better company and i feel less judged by them. 

The 1998 film Gods and Monsters based on James Whale's life portrayed the bond between an older gay man and his str8 muse quite well.

My husband and a couple of his friends are upset by the fact they they are invisible to younger men.   A long time ago, I faced the fact that it is a stage of life that everyone has to negotiate, so it doesn't bother me a bit. 

[Rudynate]

Dont forget - if there are no younger friends or family members, there are professional fiduciaries who can handle everything.

[Rudynate]

30 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

I am recently dealing with a situation involving an elderly gay friend.

One of my long time clients retired and moved to Florida ten years ago. He's now in his 90s' and all of his friends down there have since passed away. He moved into an elder-care facility which is lovely and well run, but he's extremely lonely. He reached out to me a couple months ago, hoping I could give him some advice. I've been back and forth a few times searching for a facility that has other gay men for him to socialize with because he is of that generation who spent so much of their time only hanging around gay bars, and gay friends that he is uncomfortable being around straight people. They show him pictures of their grandchildren and talk about their family as part of their social life.  I noticed this makes him feel inferior, no matter how much I keep telling him, that he doesn't need to be the same as everyone else, and he can share the joy without showing pictures he doesn't have. He just can't do it.  It's a missed opportunity for him to be happy in a very nice facility, but you can't change a tiger's stripes so late in life. I think perhaps he never planned to live to 90 because there seems to be little planning for who's going to manage his needs and how his social life is going to function. Hopeful, I can find a facility that is more familiar with some Appletinis in the lounge and a piano bar where everyone sings show tunes.

There are senior facilities for gays.  

[pubic_assistance]

13 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

It isn't that he can't fit in, it's that he's stuck in a care facility.  My mother-in-law lived in one of those "very nice" facilities.  It looked like a luxury hotel, the food was terrific and they all hated it - they all just wanted to go home.   When my father's health failed, we started looking for a home for him.  We even had him try a one-week stay in a Prebyterian home - a "very nice" facility.  He said none of the residents ever left their rooms or socialized with each other needless to say, he hated it. 

Yup. Same here. Nice facility, lovely dining room and good food. He hates the place. This one has a great social director and many people participate. His problem does very much revolve around being uncomfortable around a lot of straight people. Unfortunately, he has no family and all his friends have passed. He made no relationships with younger people outside of a few regular escorts. So now finds himself old and alone. Home health care wasn't an option as his eyesight and hearing are poor.

[pubic_assistance]

10 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

There are senior facilities for gays.  

Yes. I have been researching those. Seems like most are in the Fort Lauderdale area, and the one's I've visited so far are a bit "seedy". ( in my opinion )

[+ Charlie]

Like most people, I tend to look at friends and acquaintances in similar circumstances as models, both good and bad. My oldest and closest friend always lived alone. When he became terminally ill in his 50s, he had a younger gay friend who was a doctor, who took him into his own home and cared for him with professional helpers until his death. Unfortunately, I have no young friends like that. Another close friend of mine lost his younger partner to AIDS. He retired and moved across the country to a small town on the Oregon coast where he knew no one. When he developed Parkinson's disease in his 80s, a friendly straight neighbor took over management of his affairs (she even did his taxes!). She found a live-in caregiver so that he could eventually die at home in his own bed. I have  very friendly straight and gay neighbors, but I don't think I can depend on them for that much assistance.

My mother moved into a retirement home with independent/assisted living/nursing sections, when it became difficult for me to care for her in my home; it was her own choice--she said she actually preferred to be around more people her own age. When my spouse was first diagnosed with Alzheimer's, I thought about doing the same thing, and we visited several multiple-tier retirement communities. The ones we thought we could comfortably afford for many years were always in areas where we knew no one and we had no already established medical support system. We decided instead to move into a local 55-plus gated community, which at least had organized social activities and exercise facilities, and was very gay-friendly. It served us well for several years, but now we need much more for him.

[Luv2play]

I'm old(ish) and gay but I think some of the people closest to me love me enough that they would look out for me if I became suddenly incapacitated.

My younger sister has my power of care attorney and is a retired health care professor from a top university in Canada. She is also gay but is in a long term relationship with a much older wonan who is not likely to outlast her and is already failing fast. If she were to outlast my sister, she would throw me in the street, of that I am certain. 

My two older brothers both married, are lijely to go before me, considering the shape they are in. They both have children and grandchildren so they are taken care of either way.

I have been independent all my adult life and find myself financially independent now with gold plated pensions that are fully indexed to inflation. I just got notification that they will increase by 4.7 percent in January.

If necessary I will go into some longterm facility at some point but hope to stay in my house till then. If I have to sell my house when I go into a facility, I will use the money to have escorts visit me there, under the guise of being nephews.😜

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

If it helps to lessen the fear and realize we're not alone, remember this concern is not limited to gays.  It is not even limited to single people or couples without children.  Some people have children, but their children are selfish and make lousy care-givers.

So, let's remember to pay it forward and look after that senior on our street who lives alone.  Whether gay or straight, male or female, parent or childless, they may experience loneliness.  Whether you believe in Karma, or just the opportunity to build relationships, it starts with actively maintaining mutual friendships with friends of all ages and health.

[Luv2play]

3 hours ago, Luv2play said:

I'm old(ish) and gay but I think some of the people closest to me love me enough that they would look out for me if I became suddenly incapacitated.

My younger sister has my power of care attorney and is a retired health care professor from a top university in Canada. She is also gay but is in a long term relationship with a much older wonan who is not likely to outlast her and is already failing fast. If she were to outlast my sister, she would throw me in the street, of that I am certain. 

My two older brothers both married, are lijely to go before me, considering the shape they are in. They both have children and grandchildren so they are taken care of either way.

I have been independent all my adult life and find myself financially independent now with gold plated pensions that are fully indexed to inflation. I just got notification that they will increase by 4.7 percent in January.

If necessary I will go into some longterm facility at some point but hope to stay in my house till then. If I have to sell my house when I go into a facility, I will use the money to have escorts visit me there, under the guise of being nephews.😜

On reflection, if down the line I enter a care facility, my escort friends will have to called my grand nephews, considering my nephews are already in their late 40’s and early 50’s, a bit too old for my tastes.

[+ Coolwave35]

My father passed away in May of 21 at 74. His health started declining in February and no one in my family wanted to look after him. We all had conversations about who to pawn him off on, and if anyone felt compelled to call the facility he was in that week. My mom and brothers were unmoved by his condition. He died the way he lived, miserable, alone and unloved. 

My grandma passed away 2 weeks after him. Her health started declining in February around the same time. We organized shifts to be with her, in her own home, 24 hours a day. We had home health aids, my cousin quit his job to be there, I made sure she could stay in her home where she was safe and comfortable as long as possible. A week before her death, we moved her to one of the most beautiful hospice care facilities I’ve ever seen. She was the most amazing woman that ever existed, and everyone in her life lined up to show her she was loved. 
 

I learned that the last few months of your life is quite indicative of how you live your life. I’d like to think that good people aren’t discarded and it’s the assholes who are left to rot. I’m only 40, with not much experience with death so I could be wrong. 
 

Your post was quite moving Charlie.