Tony_tx Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I trusted this client and he made me believe that he would pay me made himself seem sincere and just ghosted me. Thanks to this man I will only accept payment upfront from now on. He just made me realize that I just cannot trust anyone. I took time out of my day on a Friday to drive 30 min to meet with him. I should’ve seen the red flags when he kept asking for a special rate because he didn’t need an hour and made it seem like he was ok to pay for the hour when I did he him. He made me rush out after fucking me because “his family member was about to arrive to pick him up and I know it’s important to protect a clients privacy so I rushed out and it seemed legit because he was so nervous and he kept telling me he would never do something like not pay… pubic_assistance and Jarrod_Uncut 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmichaeliii Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 2 hours ago, Tony_tx said: I trusted this client and he made me believe that he would pay me made himself seem sincere and just ghosted me. Thanks to this man I will only accept payment upfront from now on. He just made me realize that I just cannot trust anyone. I took time out of my day on a Friday to drive 30 min to meet with him. I should’ve seen the red flags when he kept asking for a special rate because he didn’t need an hour and made it seem like he was ok to pay for the hour when I did he him. He made me rush out after fucking me because “his family member was about to arrive to pick him up and I know it’s important to protect a clients privacy so I rushed out and it seemed legit because he was so nervous and he kept telling me he would never do something like not pay… Red flags galore. I am very friendly with my top provider, but I would never take advantage of that and ask him for special treatment. Despite our friendliness toward each other I fully get this is his business and he expects to get paid. I also would never jerk him around with "special circumstances". If doing things the right way in that moment is a problem, reschedule for a time that isn't a problem. I am sorry that happened to you. My provider would trust me also in that scenario..difference is I'd never do what your client did. + APPLE1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ robear Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I'm sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately, in this hobby there are creeps, scammers and cons on both sides of the exchange, comes with the territory I guess. The topic of prepayment or deposits to providers has been extensively chewed over on this forum. You're new here (welcome!). I suggest searching and reading some of the many many threads on the topic. The takeaway, I think, is that in the M4M world of hiring, many prospective clients consider a request for prepayment a major red flag and won't do it. Requiring payment upfront may significantly impact your business. Johnrom, Danny-Darko, musclestuduws and 7 others 3 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie21 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Sorry it happened. But there were far too many red flags, starting with the discount request. Be strict, have your rules and never break them even if it’s tempting. Njguy2, Jarrod_Uncut, Dolman and 5 others 1 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ DrownedBoy Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 There will always be bad clients. Here - the moment the guy asked for a "special rate" you should have put your foot down. However, I and many other clients have been robbed by paying first. After you see a thief grab the cash and run off without doing anything, we learn the same. The best option is to have the money in an envelope, out in the open during the session, and the provider can grab it on the way out. pubic_assistance and Saabster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monarchy79 Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Question, If out of all of your bookings, this is the first time you were stiffed out of payment, why would you change your entire business model (imposing upfront payments), based on that singular experience? Have you considered the potential drop in future bookings as most potential clients do not like paying up front? Danny-Darko, Bokomaru, DWnyc and 8 others 3 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny-Darko Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I personally don't like paying upfront. But I always have the payment visible in the dresser for him to see and I'm quick to point it out to him if he doesn't notice upon entering. Yes, many times, the escort just then and there collects it and puts it away and then we begin the session. Some do count it out to make sure they weren't shortchanged. The more gentlemanly and worldly have an eye for what a fair payment looks like in all kinds of bill combinations to just trust it's all there. I'm sure they count it in the bathroom before leaving and I appreciate the manners and fineness of not counting it out in from of me. I also tend to stick to regulars who know they can trust me as long as they live up their end of the bargain. I always do, but if they don't, I don't see them again. There is no "I'll cum next time" or "I'll make it up to you next time" for me. I know "next time" never comes. viewing ownly, dbar123, pubic_assistance and 8 others 3 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viewing ownly Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 The guy who did this to you is less than scum, but he does not at all represent any kind of majority of clients. I would block further contact from this individual and not take out your anger at this 1 situation on all other perspective or repeat clients. Unless you've advertised a special in the past, it is automatically outrageous to try to barter a lower rate with a provider. As one person on this forum would say, how would you like it if your employer attempted to barter paying you less at your job? You wouldn't. Exactly. + Pensant, jusmeinbr, josh282282 and 3 others 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie21 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Here’s the red flags which I’ve learned from years of experience. All of them are an automatic ‘no’. Say ‘sorry no’ to these clients and do not be tempted to give them the benefit of the doubt. Decide your rules and stick to them regardless. If you don’t do that the work will destroy you. 1. I’m not able to afford it, would you do me a discount? Top 🚩 2. I’m a student / temporarily unemployed are there special rates for me? These might come with a ‘sob story’. Very sad. But still it’s a ‘no’. 3. Do you do half hour sessions? (Anything less than your minimum advertised session….and if you’re advertising anything less than an hour minimum why are you doing that?) 4. Any reference to ‘I’ll be a regular client’ in the discussion. Big 🚩 You’ll never see him again. 5. Any reference to them being so hot that you’ll not want to charge. Run a mile from these. Run a mile. 6. Opening with ‘I’m very inexperienced / a virgin etc’. Don’t waste your time (if this comes up after he’s booked it’s less of a 🚩 but he’s likely to cancel on the day. 7. Any contact that opens with ‘hey, what’s up, how are you’ etc will be a waste of time. You decide whether you have the spare time to engage with a window shopper. 8. Any contact that opens with a dick pic (or ass). Delete and block. Don’t waste your time. It’s probably not his dick anyway. 9. Any sex chat during the booking conversation (unless it’s a genuine question about activities included). It will be obvious if the booking process is being used for sex chat. Big 🚩 Disengage immediately. 10. Last minute or urgent bookings. “Free now? I’m desperate” Always trouble. Just answer ‘no sorry’. Even if he offers premium payment don’t accept the booking. The common theme? These clients don’t value you. If you accept them at their terms then you’re agreeing with their valuation. That can’t be the start of a good meeting. + Pensant, Act25, + Vegas_Millennial and 14 others 4 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viewing ownly Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, Jamie21 said: Here’s the red flags which I’ve learned from years of experience. All of them are an automatic ‘no’. Say ‘sorry no’ to these clients and do not be tempted to give them the benefit of the doubt. Decide your rules and stick to them regardless. If you don’t do that the work will destroy you. 1. I’m not able to afford it, would you do me a discount? Top 🚩 2. I’m a student / temporarily unemployed are there special rates for me? These might come with a ‘sob story’. Very sad. But still it’s a ‘no’. 3. Do you do half hour sessions? (Anything less than your minimum advertised session….and if you’re advertising anything less than an hour minimum why are you doing that?) 4. Any reference to ‘I’ll be a regular client’ in the discussion. Big 🚩 You’ll never see him again. 5. Any reference to them being so hot that you’ll not want to charge. Run a mile from these. Run a mile. 6. Opening with ‘I’m very inexperienced / a virgin etc’. Don’t waste your time (if this comes up after he’s booked it’s less of a 🚩 but he’s likely to cancel on the day. 7. Any contact that opens with ‘hey, what’s up, how are you’ etc will be a waste of time. You decide whether you have the spare time to engage with a window shopper. 8. Any contact that opens with a dick pic (or ass). Delete and block. Don’t waste your time. It’s probably not his dick anyway. 9. Any sex chat during the booking conversation (unless it’s a genuine question about activities included). It will be obvious if the booking process is being used for sex chat. Big 🚩 Disengage immediately. 10. Last minute or urgent bookings. “Free now? I’m desperate” Always trouble. Just answer ‘no sorry’. Even if he offers premium payment don’t accept the booking. The common theme? These clients don’t value you. If you accept them at their terms then you’re agreeing with their valuation. That can’t be the start of a good meeting. I agree with 90% of this. #3 is what I have a difference of opinion on, as I've tried (without success) to do that myself. There are those precious few providers that offer a "quickie" half hour rate, and typically it is 75% of an hour rate for up to 30 minutes of time. This is offered for a couple of reasons by the few that do it. The main one is for the client that's looking to get off very soon and leave. The other is the slim hope that their skills are so great, you'll opt to extend the time if you're enjoying yourself and donate accordingly. Danny-Darko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie21 Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 2 hours ago, viewing ownly said: I agree with 90% of this. #3 is what I have a difference of opinion on, as I've tried (without success) to do that myself. There are those precious few providers that offer a "quickie" half hour rate, and typically it is 75% of an hour rate for up to 30 minutes of time. This is offered for a couple of reasons by the few that do it. The main one is for the client that's looking to get off very soon and leave. The other is the slim hope that their skills are so great, you'll opt to extend the time if you're enjoying yourself and donate accordingly. It’s because the cost to the provider of doing a half hour job isn’t half the price of an hour booking. There’s a minimum rate that he will have, usually for an hour. Anything less than that, even if it’s for only half an hour of time, isn’t worth the hassle. Say if my min rate is £150 for the hour, I’m not interested in £75 for half an hour. The amount of preparation time, hassle etc means anything starts at £150. If you want a quickie then book the hour, pay for the hour, and leave early. liubit, Rod Hagen, + Pensant and 3 others 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrod_Uncut Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) On 6/8/2024 at 1:15 AM, Tony_tx said: I trusted this client and he made me believe that he would pay me made himself seem sincere and just ghosted me. Thanks to this man I will only accept payment upfront from now on. He just made me realize that I just cannot trust anyone. I’m so glad that you had the courage to come here and tell your story. I think many of us, have had something similar happen. That said, is there any possibility he may have forgotten to pay? I would reach out to him again, and of course if no action (sounds like you said he ghosted) blacklist him. This is essentially the shoplifting version of rape (you did not consent to time without pay), and that’s ethically wrong. I used to live in San Antonio way back when. However over the years, I’ve learned deposits, upfront and generally whatever makes me feel safe as a sex worker, is what matters. Not what random guys on the internet think or say. There’s 6 billion people on this earth, with a lot less of them gay and willing to pay, in the same town you’re in. However, you have to be faithful and confident. Nobody wants to relive a bad experience. Even when clients talk about being robbed, they may only hire every so often. We on the other hand, are dealing with clients every day. Phone calls, everyday. Meeting strangers, everyday. If I listened to every person who doesn’t do this, or doesn’t do that…idk where I would be right now. Let this be something to encourage more screening, and deposit or something upfront upon arrival in the future. There will be other clients who can respect you as deserved . Edited June 10 by Jarrod_Uncut HottieAdmirer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenerousGent Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) Whatever happened to laying the money on the dresser in plain sight in advance!?! It doesn't have to be one or the other. A lot of illegitimate sex workers like to grab and go, and or do very little for 10 min and leave once $ is in their pocket. $ on the dresser evens the playing field for both. Usually the provider is younger, faster, stronger so actually that's more than enough assurance they won't be robbed in an exchange. ***And why didn't I see everyone else said similar things before replying? I must have just seen tail end of the thread, lol. Edited June 10 by GenerousGent + Vegas_Millennial, Danny-Darko and + DrownedBoy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmichaeliii Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 47 minutes ago, GenerousGent said: Whatever happened to laying the money on the dresser in plain sight in advance!?! It doesn't have to be one or the other. A lot of illegitimate sex workers like to grab and go, and or do very little for 10 min and leave once $ is in their pocket. $ on the dresser evens the playing field for both. Usually the provider is younger, faster, stronger so actually that's more than enough assurance they won't be robbed in an exchange. ***And why didn't I see everyone else said similar things before replying? I must have just seen tail end of the thread, lol. I have never paid a provider in cash, only venmo or cash app. Only one time I was asked to pay before the session which I did, and no issues. Not a fan of it though. Normally after the session we have some small talk while I scan his code and make payment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blck37 Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 My golden rule: never ask for a discount. Its either I can afford it or not. I would only do upfront pay with my trusted regulars, who in turn would (in separate occasion) in faith allow me to pay day after the fact (due to some technical error). One query from my regulars which always put in an awkward position is 'tell me what $$$ that you would be comfortable to pay' - for a multiple days booking. I cant never decide..... + Vegas_Millennial and jmichaeliii 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSR Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) Assh*les are often masters of manipulation. That's how they manage to treat people like sh*t yet get away with it time and again. In the moment, you were unable to respond to the red flags because he pressured you with tricks like the family member who was (never) coming to pick him up. I can understand why in the wake of this con, you respond by switching to a policy of payment upfront. Plenty of escorts say the same thing during initial communication and even in their ad. But as many here have advised, doing so will turn off a significant number of prospective clients. Maybe take a breath, or even a brief break from escorting, and when the anger fades, come up with your list of rules, e.g., no discounts, no haggling, money on the dresser, etc. @Jamie21's list is a great starting point. The next time and every time you see a red flag, just stick to your rules come hell or high water. In other words, to state the obvious, ignore the client's attempts to distract or manipulate you. Hopefully such measures filter out 98% of the schmucks while avoiding the turnoff of payment upfront. Edited June 10 by BSR Wording + nycman, Jamie21, + robear and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYXboy Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) this is absolutely a definition of rape. If he didn't pay you, he didn't have your consent. You have been raped. On 6/8/2024 at 3:26 PM, DrownedBoy said: However, I and many other clients have been robbed by paying first. After you see a thief grab the cash and run off without doing anything, we learn the same. Have you been fucked without your consent? SHAME on you for replying with this comment. On 6/8/2024 at 5:08 PM, Monarchy79 said: Have you considered the potential drop in future bookings as most potential clients do not like paying up front? the people in this thread telling him he should 'worry about this business model'. SHAME. @Tony_txI know you are in Texas, but I would look up legal avenues, and tell him you are doing so. Police often will NOT prosecute a victim of sexual violence. This may make him rethink and send you the money. Also, Here is a contact details for RAINN, they have a national hotline number you can call and speak with a professional and get some advice. National Sexual Assault Hotline: Confidential 24/7 Support | RAINN WWW.RAINN.ORG RAINN is the nation's largest anti-sexual violence organization. RAINN created and operates the... I am so sorry this happened to you. Edited June 10 by NYXboy added link Bokomaru, Jarrod_Uncut, Lohengrin1979 and 2 others 1 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarrod_Uncut Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 4 hours ago, NYXboy said: this is absolutely a definition of rape. If he didn't pay you, he didn't have your consent. You have been raped. Have you been fucked without your consent? SHAME on you for replying with this comment. the people in this thread telling him he should 'worry about this business model'. SHAME. @Tony_txI know you are in Texas, but I would look up legal avenues, and tell him you are doing so. Police often will NOT prosecute a victim of sexual violence. This may make him rethink and send you the money. Also, Here is a contact details for RAINN, they have a national hotline number you can call and speak with a professional and get some advice. National Sexual Assault Hotline: Confidential 24/7 Support | RAINN WWW.RAINN.ORG RAINN is the nation's largest anti-sexual violence organization. RAINN created and operates the... I am so sorry this happened to you. I also think a possible more low key solution would be to perhaps reach out directly to RentMen admin, state the case and see what they may be willing to do. I know they don’t get involved with personal disputes much, but they may be willing to hold the person’s profile, accountable. Also, there’s the alternative: having someone else contact the client and let them know, “he/she will be coming to collect the payment today, otherwise you can mail/bring it to me in person” (and I’ve known people to actually have handlers do that) especially if that is the client’s place that occurred. Better hope the next one doesn’t send a brick 🧱 thru his window lol. But again, with “innocent until proven yadda yadda”, it might be imperative to ensure the client didn’t just forget and maybe thought he gave the money earlier. Having not been there to know either side, always best to start off with the least resistant before going to the deep end lol. Edited June 10 by Jarrod_Uncut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socurious Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 What a jerk! It's good that you are exposing him. I had a bad experience with an RM user who made me travel 10 hours with no deposit and ghosted me. When I exposed him here my post was removed. There is a lot of people taking advantage of us the providers. MikeBiDude 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socurious Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 For me if they start asking for discounts or texting too much (asking for nudes or making too many questions), there are red flags of a bad client. Be strict and never treat the whole interaction as if it was a hookup. Don't be too nice. Be respectful but keep it professional, direct and short. I once had this kid that had the nerves to ask me for a discount when he saw I was too nice. He had the audicity to tell he could only pay me half the price once we were done. I was so disgusted. My guts were telling me something right before we finished. He was a really bad client. Jamie21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmichaeliii Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 48 minutes ago, socurious said: For me if they start asking for discounts or texting too much (asking for nudes or making too many questions), there are red flags of a bad client. Be strict and never treat the whole interaction as if it was a hookup. Don't be too nice. Be respectful but keep it professional, direct and short. I once had this kid that had the nerves to ask me for a discount when he saw I was too nice. He had the audicity to tell he could only pay me half the price once we were done. I was so disgusted. My guts were telling me something right before we finished. He was a really bad client. That all sucks and those things are huge red flags. It's ironic because I have been seeing one provider for almost a year, and we always do 2 hour sessions. I had some extra time one day and suggested 3 hours. He actually felt bad mentioning the extra money. I told him first, you don't need to mention it because I understand your terms and would never expect you to work for free, and second please never feel like to can't bring something up to me that you might be concerned about..we have known each other a year. I think he appreciated my respect about the subject because he showed me a time in that session that I will never forget! + robear, fancyboot, Jamie21 and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthOfTheBorder Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) at this point - if someone demands upfront payment, I’d leave immediately. It hasn’t happened much, but when it does, it usually means mediocrity since payment after services rendered is the norm, it should be noted in profile if they want payment in advance - of course, the scammers won’t reveal themselves that way. always cash - no electronic trail or names Edited June 10 by SouthOfTheBorder Medin, Jarrod_Uncut, NYXboy and 1 other 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYXboy Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said: Also, there’s the alternative: having someone else contact the client and let them know, “he/she will be coming to collect the payment today, otherwise you can mail/bring it to me in person” (and I’ve known people to actually have handlers do that) especially if that is the client’s place that occurred. Better hope the next one doesn’t send a brick 🧱 thru his window lol. I would offer to do this if I were in Texas. Jarrod_Uncut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ DrownedBoy Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said: having someone else contact the client and let them know, “he/she will be coming to collect the payment today, otherwise you can mail/bring it to me in person” (and I’ve known people to actually have handlers do that) especially if that is the client’s place that occurred. Better hope the next one doesn’t send a brick 🧱 thru his window lol. Finally a constructive solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ José Soplanucas Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 8 hours ago, NYXboy said: this is absolutely a definition of rape. If he didn't pay you, he didn't have your consent. You have been raped. Have you been fucked without your consent? SHAME on you for replying with this comment. the people in this thread telling him he should 'worry about this business model'. SHAME. @Tony_txI know you are in Texas, but I would look up legal avenues, and tell him you are doing so. Police often will NOT prosecute a victim of sexual violence. This may make him rethink and send you the money. Also, Here is a contact details for RAINN, they have a national hotline number you can call and speak with a professional and get some advice. National Sexual Assault Hotline: Confidential 24/7 Support | RAINN WWW.RAINN.ORG RAINN is the nation's largest anti-sexual violence organization. RAINN created and operates the... I am so sorry this happened to you. What an eloquence to make clear that you do not understand what sexual assault is. Lohengrin1979, + robear, BSR and 3 others 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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