Titanic Submarine Situation

[Archangel]

Am I insensitive that I don’t understand why everyone is so exercised over this titanic submarine? Honestly if they are found I hope they are handed a BILL! The amount of money and resources being devoted to finding five RICH people who engaged in reckless behavior vs the 500 people who were left to callously die off the coast of Greece is shameful.

[BuffaloKyle]

So instead of trying to find them they should have just said oh well I'm sure their families will be fine with them suffocating to death? 

[Guest]

While I agree that these billionaires should be billed (their estates, that is, assuming the rescue proves unsuccessful), I do agree with the rescue attempt. I'm not familiar with the Greek story you mentioned previously. If people were left to die, I agree that the situation would be atrocious and unforgiveable. Two wrongs don't make it right. I also agree that the billionaires' trip was foolhardy. Even if money were of no object (which I guess is the case for these people), it's crazy to put oneself in such a dangerous situation--in which there's almost no hope if something goes wrong. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Unicorn

[Luv2play]

It's been a big news story here in Canada and I think I understand why. First its like climbing Mt. Everest or helicopter skiing in BC or any other high risk adventure. It's normally well educated, affluent people who engage in these activities and some die every year. You just hope the odds are with you. 

These people have a high tolerance to risk. The billionaires on this trip were two Pakistani's, a father and son and the British businesman-explorer.  The other two were a French-American undersea expert and the CEO of the company that owned the vessel. But people like to scoff at billionaires and the successful.

And the lure surrounding the Titanic and its mythic reputation draws a certain type to want to get up close and is not satisfied in just watching some 3D film of the shipwreck.  

So yes, it all seems a bit extravagent to focus on this human tragedy when many other more mundane tragedies are playing out every day in the world. Such as the hundreds of migrants on the ship that foundered off the coast of Greece.

But people get caught up in these stories, just like the story of Amelia Erhardt. Its just human behavior.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Luv2play
Additional info.

[Jamie21]

It’s the human spirit to explore and push boundaries. We wouldn’t have survived without that drive. It’s also the human spirit to empathise with the people stuck in that sub. Imagine what you would feel if you were down there. You’d also hope that someone would try to rescue you. If they are saved then I’m sure they’ll be grateful and will compensate those who save them. If they don’t do that then they’ll deserve contempt. When we start deciding who deserves saving and who doesn’t then we’re on a very slippery slope. Who decides where that line is drawn? That’s also what makes us human: compassion. 

[samhexum]

43 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

But people get caught up in these stories, just like the story of Amelia Erhardt. Its just human behavior.

Think of the endless press coverage there will be when she's found alive.

[+ Lucky]

RIP those who were in the submersible.

[Archangel]

1 hour ago, Jamie21 said:

When we start deciding who deserves saving and who doesn’t then we’re on a very slippery slope. Who decides where that line is drawn?

Oh we’ve long ago decided that. We have “started.” 

The Titanic and the mythos around it is sexy. That’s why this story was in the headlines and likely, to some degree, why it solicited so much support.

Would that the same effort were poured into the fighting going on in Uganda right now. Or the humanitarian crisis in Yemen. But…resources are limited. We make choices every minute of every day who’s getting them. The victims of political violence in Uganda and civil war in Yemen didn’t court disaster like these billionaires did. It happened to them. Should we folks looked for the billionaires? Absolutely. But they also understood the risk. It’s tragic something went wrong, but it shouldn’t be something seen as unexpected or pitiful. Imagine if we poured resources into rehabilitating the previously incarnated? Instead people act like such folks deserve their hard life. Or addicts who end up ODing. We say, “How tragic,” and move on. We say they should know better. These men knew there was risk and took it. Sad, yes. But they knew. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Archangel

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Archangel said:

... The victims of political violence in Uganda and civil war in Yemen didn’t court disaster like these billionaires did....

Well, I would never quite scoff at those billionaires. That being said, I do shudder when I see massive sums of money being spent on "look at me" activities or luxury items, when the money could be spent helping the less fortunate. When I die, I'd like to be remembered for my generosity and philanthropy rather than for partaking in some expensive, risky activity, or for my ownership of luxury goods. Living where we do, my fiance will often comment that someone is wearing an outfit costing 5 figures. Quite frankly, I find these expenditures crass and insensitive to the plight of others. (We did get my partner some fake designer stuff when we were in Turkey last month, though). If someone's going to talk about me, I would rather they say "Unicorn really cares for others. Last month he held a fundraiser for the International Rescue Committee at his house," instead of "Did you hear Unicorn went into outer space last month?". I would be embarrassed rather than proud to spend money on useless crap meant only to show off. I'd rather spend any extra cash on the IRC, Rainbow Railroad, Feeding America, Oxfam, and supporting the arts. 

The IRC

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[Luv2play]

I've been struck by the fact that while there have been many submersibles that have descended to the shipwreck since it was discovered (including this ill-fated one), that it was one named the Titan came to grief visiting the Titanic.

The ocean liner Titanic was sold as being " unsinkable" and this Titan was apparently promoted to rich tourists as being safe.

In tbe case of the Titanic, it was later discovered that there were many reasons to doubt it's safety, including the steps that were taken to cut costs in its construction. 

We have yet to find out if anything questionable was done to minimize the risks in promoting this submersible. Time will tell.

[pubic_assistance]

4 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

We have yet to find out if anything questionable was done to minimize the risks in promoting this submersible. Time will tell.

There are already articles stating that this was an disaster just waiting for it's first victim.

Strange that there weren't better regulations for such a business.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

...We have yet to find out if anything questionable was done to minimize the risks in promoting this submersible....

I've been hearing that yes, there were. 

[Luv2play]

30 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

There are already articles stating that this was an disaster just waiting for it's first victim.

Strange that there weren't better regulations for such a business.

But that was what the Titanic disaster uncovered. The government regulations were inadequate. For instance the number of lifeboats sufficient to cover everyone on board did not exist. There were other lacunae relating to communications and the construction standards of ships.

These were addressed following an enquiry the British held after the disaster. Perhaps some sort of enquiry will be held following this disaster.

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Luv2play
Corrections.

[pubic_assistance]

 

‘Titanic’ Director And Diving Expert James Cameron Explains Why The Titan Sub Imploded Underwater | The Daily Wire

WWW.DAILYWIRE.COM

Ironically James Cameron is well familiar with the craft and claiming he was aware of the safety hazards and lack over oversight.

Edited June 23, 2023 by pubic_assistance

[BuffaloKyle]

Here's one of the ads on the oceangate official youtube page talking about how safe it is right off the top and that the submersible is checked after each trip. 😢

 

[pubic_assistance]

56 minutes ago, BuffaloKyle said:

talking about how safe it is

Even Billionaires are susceptible to false marketing.

R.I.P.

Prayer for their families.

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[CuriousByNature]

2 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Strange that there weren't better regulations for such a business.

Agreed.  But this seems to be the case for any private enterprise taking place in international waters.  Had the Titanic sunk closer to the coast, and within the bounds of Canadian or American jurisdiction, that submersible would never have been making voyages to the deep.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

7 hours ago, Unicorn said:

While I agree that these billionaires should be billed (their estates, that is, assuming the rescue proves unsuccessful), I do agree with the rescue attempt.

I don’t agree at all - 5 people decided to go on a very risky undersea adventure & it will cost tens of millions in total costs to our government.  and this isn’t a unique situation - our government spends tons of money getting people out of situations they shouldn’t be in to begin with.  Remember the kid held hostage in North Korea ?  And the hikers in Iran ?  It goes on and on and on.

Our government has finite resources and those resources should not be spent on people putting themselves into high risk situations which require government rescue.  The price for the submarine adventure needs to include insurance to pay for all the rescue costs if something happens.  
The US government will never recover these costs. Not going to happen. 

[CuriousByNature]

2 hours ago, Luv2play said:

I've been struck by the fact that while there have been many submersibles that have descended to the shipwreck since it was discovered (including this ill-fated one), that it was one named the Titan came to grief visiting the Titanic.

And owned and operated by a man whose wife's ancestors apparently died in the Titanic disaster back in 1912...

[+ glutes]

The Coasties (US & Canadian) have always been my heroes. But, I cringe when their efforts, and safety, are squandered to save those that have more money than sense. The silver-lining to this story is that all our First-Responders returned safely.

[+ sync]

My understanding is that the design of the submersible made it able to be opened only from the outside.  That alone would have made me give up my seat.

[Guest]

Hopefully they'll drain every penny OceanGate has to at least refund part of the rescue costs. I guess the passengers can't be found liable. It would have been better for the passengers to spend their money helping Feeding America, which an e-mail just informed me is very LGBTQ+ positive!

[mike carey]

Moderator's note to stay on topic, we'll remove commentary that's not about the incident itself or the responses to it.

[pubic_assistance]

5 hours ago, sync said:

My understanding is that the design of the submersible made it able to be opened only from the outside.

There is no point in having it open on a deep dive. You'd be crushed immediately if you tried to leave the craft. Experts are saying the metal craft itself wasn't built with the durability necessary and was crushed. Imagine the pressures down there. You'd be instantly squished like a bug.

 

[+ sync]

16 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

There is no point in having it open on a deep dive. You'd be crushed immediately if you tried to leave the craft. Experts are saying the metal craft itself wasn't built with the durability necessary and was crushed. Imagine the pressures down there. You'd be instantly squished like a bug.

 

Of course, at or near the maximum depth exposure would have meant certain death, however, a report I read stated that contact with the submersible was lost less than 2 hours after the dive.  If there were unfavorable or warning instrument readings within the submersible at or around that time, perhaps they could have ejected if it had been possible to open the hatch from within.

I'm also curious to know if it can ever be determined if there was an engine failure.

Edited June 23, 2023 by sync
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