Titanic Submarine Situation

[BSR]

1 minute ago, Lucky said:

I think it is reprehensible that you inject the politics here. Hunter Biden has nothing to do with the submersible failure. Where are the moderators who complain that posts get too political?

Feel free to report my post if you feel so strongly about it.

Again, the entire diving community, including the US Navy, knew that the sub was gone.  So why did the US government maintain the grotesque charade that there was still hope of rescuing the 5 men on board?

[CuriousByNature]

6 minutes ago, BSR said:

Feel free to report my post if you feel so strongly about it.

Again, the entire diving community, including the US Navy, knew that the sub was gone.  So why did the US government maintain the grotesque charade that there was still hope of rescuing the 5 men on board?

In times of crisis, I think there is a responsibility for those in charge to retain at least a semblance of hope, even if they personally believe that all hope is gone.  Nobody wants to write anyone off completely as long as there is the slightest possibility of a rescue.  Some people have been rescued from disasters long after they have been presumed dead, but as soon as there was proof of a debris field the searchers indicated there was no hope for survival.  

[TonyDown]

Now that it's over it was certainly a sad outcome.

But back to the OP

No you are not insensitive.  

I recognized how the lamestream media was dishing up continual content about the incident and I chose to turn away or click away.

Continual speculation and rehashing the likely outcome did not appeal to me yet I get how many are drawn to it.  Gawkers are gonna gawk.

At the point where a famous film director weighed in on the incident seemed a stretch.  Honestly don't know why his opinion mattered because I wasn't paying attention but apparently to many it did.

From an engineering standpoint one might ask how the design integrity was ever proven in the first place.  Or more to the point, how they failed to understand time-to-failure was far less than whatever factor is expected for such a design.

As someone stated above, at that depth it crushed like a bug.

 

 

[CuriousByNature]

3 minutes ago, TonyDown said:

Now that it's over it was certainly a sad outcome.

But back to the OP

No you are not insensitive.  

I recognized how the lamestream media was dishing up continual content about the incident and I chose to turn away or click away.

Continual speculation and rehashing the likely outcome did not appeal to me yet I get how many are drawn to it.  Gawkers are gonna gawk.

At the point where a famous film director weighed in on the incident seemed a stretch.  Honestly don't know why his opinion mattered because I wasn't paying attention but apparently to many it did.

From an engineering standpoint one might ask how the design integrity was ever proven in the first place.  Or more to the point, how they failed to understand time-to-failure was far less than whatever factor is expected for such a design.

As someone stated above, at that depth it crushed like a bug.

 

 

I was put off by James Cameron weighing in on this - in my opinion he didn't add any value to the conversation for anyone but himself.  Yes, he has been down to the Titanic more than 30 times and probably knows more than many people about deep dives.  I have flown at 30,000 feet more than 30 times and I understand quite a bit about flight, but I would never presume to be an expert on aviation or expect people to take my words any more seriously than any other airplane passenger.  It's his ego that is truly titanic.

[CuriousByNature]

1 hour ago, Rudynate said:

Does anybody know if there was insurance?  There are carriers who specialize in coverage of very high-risk scenarios.

If any insurance companies were willing to cover something that was not certified as being seaworthy, I imagine the premiums would have been extremely expensive.  Given that the company used a modified $30 joystick to maneuver the craft, I would be surprised if they were willing to spend additional money on something like insurance.  Without certification in place, I think every passenger who ever descended in that thing was little more than a guinea pig with deep pockets to the company leadership.

[BSR]

7 minutes ago, CuriousByNature said:

Not trying to attack anyone - just pointing out that for me, Cameron has far less credibility than a true expert, even if his views matched their own opinions.  And I think it would have been irresponsible for authorities to declare the submarine destroyed until there was some tangible proof that it had occurred.  As others have commented, there are other things that can cause banging sounds in the deep ocean - a large bang and then loss of contact and tracking may certainly point to an implosion on the balance of probabilities, but more than that is needed to make a firm conclusion. 

"Not trying to attack anyone" ... except you just did, LOL.  You backpedaled only after I called you out for it.

Let me ask the question I asked earlier but no one has answered:  can you find one expert, outside the *coughlyingsackofshitcough* US government, who believed that in light of the loud bang + simultaneous loss of comms and tracking, there was a chance that the sub was still viable and its passengers were alive?

 

[mike carey]

2 hours ago, mike carey said:

A reminder to stay on topic. We've deleted some posts but left others that make relevant points and also include off-topic points. Don't reply to them unless what you are saying is in response to one of the relevant points.

In case it wasn't obvious, attributing political motives to how the Canadian and US authorities handled the situation is political and therefore outside the scope of discussion in the Lounge.

[+ augustus]

@BSR has a valid point.   The USA has an ocean floor submarine detection system called the Sound Surveillance System, or SOSUS.  Developed to detect Soviet nuclear submarines, SOSUS relies on a network of listening devices called hydrophones fixed to the sea floor all along both coasts.  It is being reported that the US Navy detected the implosion of the Titan and reported it to the US Coast Guard right away.  

[mike carey]

6 minutes ago, augustus said:

@BSR has a valid point.   The USA has an ocean floor submarine detection system called the Sound Surveillance System, or SOSUS.  Developed to detect Soviet nuclear submarines, SOSUS relies on a network of listening devices called hydrophones fixed to the sea floor all along both coasts.  It is being reported that the US Navy detected the implosion of the Titan and reported it to the US Coast Guard right away.  

Indeed, it's reported that they did, and also that there were assessments in certain circles as to whether that meant that the submersible was lost. There was still doubt about whether that was conclusive. Many Monday morning quarterbacks say that it was.

[+ FrankR]

Just now, mike carey said:

Indeed, it's reported that they did, and also that there were assessments in certain circles as to whether that meant that the submersible was lost. There was still doubt about whether that was conclusive. Many Monday morning quarterbacks say that it was.

Indeed - the Coast Guard was in a no win situation. If they dont conduct search and rescue the post game quarterbacks would say they are useless and neglecting their duty. If they conduct search and rescue they are accused of wasting tax payer dollars and conducting a grotesque charade. 

[marylander1940]

27 minutes ago, augustus said:

@BSR has a valid point.   The USA has an ocean floor submarine detection system called the Sound Surveillance System, or SOSUS.  Developed to detect Soviet nuclear submarines, SOSUS relies on a network of listening devices called hydrophones fixed to the sea floor all along both coasts.  It is being reported that the US Navy detected the implosion of the Titan and reported it to the US Coast Guard right away.  

Interesting how some trust the deep state only when it's convenient...

2 hours ago, CuriousByNature said:

In times of crisis, I think there is a responsibility for those in charge to retain at least a semblance of hope, even if they personally believe that all hope is gone.  Nobody wants to write anyone off completely as long as there is the slightest possibility of a rescue.  Some people have been rescued from disasters long after they have been presumed dead, but as soon as there was proof of a debris field the searchers indicated there was no hope for survival.  

Exactly! 

They only stop searching when they found physical debris. 

Most people tend to be hopeful, unfortunately that doesn't apply to those who see the world in mean and paranoid way where conspiracy theories thrive because everyone is out to get them.

[BSR]

20 minutes ago, FrankR said:

Indeed - the Coast Guard was in a no win situation. If they dont conduct search and rescue the post game quarterbacks would say they are useless and neglecting their duty. If they conduct search and rescue they are accused of wasting tax payer dollars and conducting a grotesque charade. 

One shade of gray I mentioned previously:  the US government acknowledges the universal consensus in the deep-dive community is that the loud bang + simultaneous loss of comms and tracking mean that in all likelihood the sub is gone, but that search efforts will continue until the 96 hours lapses.  At least that way the government isn't feeding false hope to the friends & family of the 5 men.

@mike carey said, "There was still doubt about whether that was conclusive."  OK then, who exactly doubted?  Name names and list their credentials.  And if this expert or experts doubted, what alternative scenario did they suggest could have caused the loud bang coupled with simultaneous loss of comms & tracking?

Edited June 25, 2023 by BSR
Clarity

[marylander1940]

2 hours ago, Lucky said:

I think it is reprehensible that you inject the politics here. Hunter Biden has nothing to do with the submersible failure. Where are the moderators who complain that posts get too political?

 

[BSR]

57 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

 

Feel free to report my post.

[BSR]

Who here actually thinks that misleading the family & friends of the 5 men was the right thing to do?  If you know that my husband/brother/son is gone, just tell me, even if you don't have proof yet.  But don't make me cling to bullsh*t false hope for a few days because I'll be so much more devastated when I hear the truth.  Plus I will explode with rage once I figure out that you fed me a lie.

How is it a good idea to feed desperate, distressed people false hope?  What am I missing here?

[marylander1940]

2 minutes ago, BSR said:

Feel free to report my post.

Not the first time you say that. You've been reporting this thread several times using @. 

3 hours ago, BSR said:

Feel free to report my post if you feel so strongly about it.

 

 

1 hour ago, FrankR said:

Indeed - the Coast Guard was in a no win situation. If they dont conduct search and rescue the post game quarterbacks would say they are useless and neglecting their duty. If they conduct search and rescue they are accused of wasting tax payer dollars and conducting a grotesque charade. 

Damn if they do and damn if they don't!

Either the Coast Guard was sent to look for a submarine he knew had imploded to distract from the president's prodigal son, or he didn't to make Fox complain he left 5 people in the bottom of the ocean die out of oxygen. 

[BSR]

6 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

Not the first time you say that. You've been reporting this thread several times using @. 

Wow, and you accuse other people of buying into conspiracy theories, LOL.  1) I have not reported anyone or any post in this thread.  2) It's just basic Internet courtesy to use the @ when mentioning another forum member so that they are aware you cited them.

Sorry for so rudely interrupting your paranoia.

[marylander1940]

3 minutes ago, BSR said:

Wow, and you accuse other people of buying into conspiracy theories, LOL.  1) I have not reported anyone or any post in this thread.  2) It's just basic Internet courtesy to use the @ when mentioning another forum member so that they are aware you cited them.

Sorry for so rudely interrupting your paranoia.

you reported it while calling @mike carey using @ he's a moderator and has intervened in this thread several times after you brought politics to exploit this tragedy! 

[Luv2play]

It was interesting to me that we had a similar tragedy around the same time here in Canada when a military helicopter crashed into the Ottawa River during a night training exercise. There were four crew members on board but only two emerged from the water right after the accident and were taken to hospital with non life threatening injuries.

The other two crew members were not found even by the next morning. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau publically acknowledged their loss that morning while the armed services was still calling it a rescue and not recovery operation.  

Maybe the navy in the US had the same mindset as ours. They don't acknowledge loss until they have irrefutable evidence. Most of us civilians are realistic and can draw appropriate conclusions when presented with enough evidence. 

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

The US government hid the truth because the submarine was destroyed by one of the lizard-men secret ships. Biden is a reptilian.

[KeepItReal]

5 hours ago, BSR said:

Who here actually thinks that misleading the family & friends of the 5 men was the right thing to do?  If you know that my husband/brother/son is gone, just tell me, even if you don't have proof yet.  But don't make me cling to bullsh*t false hope for a few days because I'll be so much more devastated when I hear the truth.  Plus I will explode with rage once I figure out that you fed me a lie.

How is it a good idea to feed desperate, distressed people false hope?  What am I missing here?

I would be fascinated to hear how you know the families were mislead. Please provide source or are is that just your assumption?  From what I heard, they acknowledged the various noises as they were detected and determined they were inconclusive. Until they found wreckage.  That is what you are missing.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/21/titanic-sub-search-underwater-noises-picked-up-by-canadian-plane-us-coast-guard-says

[BSR]

46 minutes ago, KeepItReal said:

I would be fascinated to hear how you know the families were mislead. Please provide source or are is that just your assumption?  From what I heard, they acknowledged the various noises as they were detected and determined they were inconclusive. Until they found wreckage.  That is what you are missing.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/21/titanic-sub-search-underwater-noises-picked-up-by-canadian-plane-us-coast-guard-says

The US government should have told the families on Monday morning that the simultaneous loud bang + loss of comms + loss of tracking meant that the sub was gone.  Anything other than that would be misleading.

Maybe they did tell the families behind closed doors that the sub was gone, no chance of survivors.  But the very public narrative was that there was still a chance of rescue.

[+ Coolwave35]

I miss the politics forum. It had been a great catch all, dumping ground cesspool of posts that was easy to ignore. 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, BSR said:

... in all likelihood the sub is gone..

What's so difficult to understand? "In all likelihood" doesn't equate to "there's no hope." How would you like it if a building collapsed on you or a loved one, and no attempt at rescue was made because it was unlikely you or your loved one survived? 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Unicorn

[marylander1940]

6 hours ago, Unicorn said:

What's so difficult to understand? "In all likelihood" doesn't equate to "there's no hope." How would you like it if a building collapsed on you or a loved one, and no attempt at rescue was made because it was unlikely you or your loved one survived? 

Damn if you do and damn if you don't. 

If the Coast Guard hadn't looked for the submarine, some folQs would say 5 billionaires where left to die in the bottom of the ocean out of social resentment, laziness, lack of money because of the "Defund the Coast Guard" movement, etc. There might even be record of them texting their relatives from the bottom of the ocean asking for help, etc.