Titanic Submarine Situation

[marylander1940]

1 minute ago, arnemgreeves said:

I didn't know the people in the sub. I have nothing against them.

But the media are blowing this up to such a high degree. 

There are tragedies where people are dying in wars, are refugees, losing everything in natural disasters, etc. 

The people in the sub knew the risks. And going down thousands of feet in the Atlantic is highly risky. 

this isn't to denigrate them, but the case of the man dying from a shark attack in Egypt was a bigger tragedy than this. 

 

Or the boat full of refugees capsizing near Greece.

 

[+ sync]

The one loss of life that spikes above all the others for me is the 19-year-old who was coerced into taking part in the dive.  😥

[pubic_assistance]

People are always more interested in what some rich asshole is doing. How do you think Kim Kardashian got rich ?

[+ jeezopete]

7 hours ago, sync said:

The one loss of life that spikes above all the others for me is the 19-year-old who was coerced into taking part in the dive.  😥

Just like every other story, it depends on the version we get:

 

In her first interview, Mrs. Dawood said she had planned to go with her husband to view the wreck of the Titanic, but the trip was cancelled because of the Covid pandemic. "Then I stepped back and gave them space to set [Suleman] up, because he really wanted to go," she said.

"I was really happy for them because both of them, they really wanted to do that for a very long time," she said.

Teenager on sub took Rubik's Cube to break record, mother tells BBC

WWW.YAHOO.COM

---

Christine Dawood told the BBC she lost hope of her son being found alive when the 96-hour mark passed.

 

[Guest]

It's horrifying to realize that the news organization I follow, the NBC Nightly News, didn't even mention the disaster in Greek waters while giving all of the coverage to the billionaires. I agree that there's as much condemnation to be given to the press as to the Greek Coast Guard. Hopefully this will be a wake-up call for both Coast Guard authorities and to the press. One can only hope. That being said, a Mexican billionaire did rescue a hundred of the refugees. 

A Superyacht Gave a Lifeline to 100 Migrants Thrown Into the Sea - The New York Times

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

---

A $175 million vessel responded to a distress call and helped rescue survivors in one of the Mediterranean’s worst wrecks in decades, reflecting the new inequality of...

"...The superyacht Mayan Queen IV was sailing smoothly in clear weather through the dark and calm Mediterranean in the early hours of June 14 when it received a call about a migrant ship in distress four nautical miles away. About 20 minutes later, shortly before 3 a.m., the towering $175-million yacht, owned by the family of a Mexican silver magnate, arrived at the scene. The distressed boat had already sunk. All the four-person crew could see were the lights of a Greek Coast Guard vessel scanning the water’s inky surface. But they could hear the screams of survivors.

“Horrible,” said the Mayan Queen’s captain, Richard Kirkby, who described the sea as “pitch black” on that nearly moonless night. In a few hours, the 305-foot Mayan Queen, more accustomed to pleasure boating to Monaco and Italy with billionaires and their friends aboard, was filled with 100 desperate, dehydrated and sea-soaked Pakistani, Syrian, Palestinian and Egyptian men, as it played an unexpected role in one of the deadliest migrant shipwrecks in decades...".

Thank goodness for the magnanimous magnate. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Unicorn

[Guest]

Further examination into this disaster reveals the migrant boat's "captain" could be the biggest villain in this tragedy:

At least 79 migrants die in Greece shipwreck as 100 rescued by superyacht

WWW.THENATIONALNEWS.COM

---

Emergency operation complicated by strong winds

"...Coastguard authorities announced that the boat had previously declined several assistance offers. Both the coastguard and nearby merchant ships began their rescue efforts on Tuesday, according to an official statement. The ship's captain, it was stated, expressed an intention to proceed to Italy. Contrary to the coastguard's account, Alarm Phone, an activist network operating a hotline for distressed migrant boats, stated that it had been communicating with people presumed to be passengers on the capsized vessel. These passengers conveyed an urgent need for aid, in stark contrast to the ship captain's earlier refusal...".

[+ José Soplanucas]

14 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

It's horrifying to realize that the news organization I follow, the NBC Nightly News, didn't even mention the disaster in Greek waters while giving all of the coverage to the billionaires. I agree that there's as much condemnation to be given to the press as to the Greek Coast Guard. Hopefully this will be a wake-up call for both Coast Guard authorities and to the press. One can only hope. That being said, a Mexican billionaire did rescue a hundred of the refugees. 

A Superyacht Gave a Lifeline to 100 Migrants Thrown Into the Sea - The New York Times

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

---

A $175 million vessel responded to a distress call and helped rescue survivors in one of the Mediterranean’s worst wrecks in decades, reflecting the new inequality of...

"...The superyacht Mayan Queen IV was sailing smoothly in clear weather through the dark and calm Mediterranean in the early hours of June 14 when it received a call about a migrant ship in distress four nautical miles away. About 20 minutes later, shortly before 3 a.m., the towering $175-million yacht, owned by the family of a Mexican silver magnate, arrived at the scene. The distressed boat had already sunk. All the four-person crew could see were the lights of a Greek Coast Guard vessel scanning the water’s inky surface. But they could hear the screams of survivors.

“Horrible,” said the Mayan Queen’s captain, Richard Kirkby, who described the sea as “pitch black” on that nearly moonless night. In a few hours, the 305-foot Mayan Queen, more accustomed to pleasure boating to Monaco and Italy with billionaires and their friends aboard, was filled with 100 desperate, dehydrated and sea-soaked Pakistani, Syrian, Palestinian and Egyptian men, as it played an unexpected role in one of the deadliest migrant shipwrecks in decades...".

Thank goodness for the magnanimous magnate. 

I bet you it was scheduled.

[+ José Soplanucas]

8 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Further examination into this disaster reveals the migrant boat's "captain" could be the biggest villain in this tragedy:

At least 79 migrants die in Greece shipwreck as 100 rescued by superyacht

WWW.THENATIONALNEWS.COM

---

Emergency operation complicated by strong winds

"...Coastguard authorities announced that the boat had previously declined several assistance offers. Both the coastguard and nearby merchant ships began their rescue efforts on Tuesday, according to an official statement. The ship's captain, it was stated, expressed an intention to proceed to Italy. Contrary to the coastguard's account, Alarm Phone, an activist network operating a hotline for distressed migrant boats, stated that it had been communicating with people presumed to be passengers on the capsized vessel. These passengers conveyed an urgent need for aid, in stark contrast to the ship captain's earlier refusal...".

That is for sure. He and the guys who, I am sure, billed a lot of money to the victims to get on board. 

[CuriousByNature]

2 hours ago, José Soplanucas said:

That is for sure. He and the guys who, I am sure, billed a lot of money to the victims to get on board. 

I wonder how many escorts he had onboard?  Maybe they helped pull people to safety - oh, but billionaires don't hire providers - oops, I'm conflating two threads....  😜

[BSR]

20 hours ago, Unicorn said:

What's so difficult to understand? "In all likelihood" doesn't equate to "there's no hope." How would you like it if a building collapsed on you or a loved one, and no attempt at rescue was made because it was unlikely you or your loved one survived? 

With a sub at 3500 feet deep, a collapse of the sub means instant death because no human can withstand the water pressure at that depth whereas people survive building collapses all the time.  Poor analogy.

For example, as catastrophic as the Surfside FL condo collapse was (98 dead), 3 people did survive.

Edited June 27, 2023 by BSR
Added 2nd paragraph

[BSR]

On 6/25/2023 at 10:30 AM, mike carey said:

There was still doubt about whether that was conclusive. Many Monday morning quarterbacks say that it was.

This is classic government coveryourass-speak bullshit.  Note the lack of a subject in the first sentence (no accountability, a government trademark) and the platitude ("Monday morning quarterbacks") in the second.

No response as to who exactly doubted that the sub was gone, nor any alternative scenarios to explain the simultaneous loud bang+loss of comms+loss of tracking.  Why not?  Because no one doubted and because everyone knew that the loud bang/no comms/no tracking could mean only one thing:  the sub was gone.

[mike carey]

8 hours ago, BSR said:

This is classic government coveryourass-speak bullshit.  Note the lack of a subject in the first sentence (no accountability, a government trademark) and the platitude ("Monday morning quarterbacks") in the second.

No response as to who exactly doubted that the sub was gone, nor any alternative scenarios to explain the simultaneous loud bang+loss of comms+loss of tracking.  Why not?  Because no one doubted and because everyone knew that the loud bang/no comms/no tracking could mean only one thing:  the sub was gone.

You don't give up, do you. You can spout wild generalities to advance your various arguments, and some retrospective analysis here of what had been suspected (strongly suspected in some cases I accept) but later confirmed as having been accurate suspicions. You are entitled to, and do cite Expert Witness A to support your case. You are not entitled to demand, as you regularly do, that those who disagree tick every box in a list of criteria that you deem necessary for them to make their case, nor to demand that others produce a list of their own of who said what and when. The review of the incident time line, which the US and Canadian authorities will undertake when not under the pressure that a critical incident generates, will determine what could have, or should have (not the same thing) been understood from the available data. Sometimes there is confusion in the heat of the moment, sometimes through lack of information, at other times through timidity in interpreting the information at hand. But for you, it's always evidence of some grand political conspiracy, and you don't hesitate to assert here that that is the case.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BSR said:

With a sub at 3500 feet deep, a collapse of the sub means instant death because no human can withstand the water pressure at that depth whereas people survive building collapses all the time.  Poor analogy.

For example, as catastrophic as the Surfside FL condo collapse was (98 dead), 3 people did survive.

As you said previously, with 98 out of 101 dead, in "all likelihood" if you were caught in that building, you died, the survival rate being less than 3%. The fact that the sub had collapsed wasn't known until the wreckage was found (at which time the rescue operation ceased). Underwater noise plus loss of communication does not prove the sub had completely imploded. Less catastrophic damage was obviously considered a possibility. Of course, once pieces of the wreckage were found, then, yes, it was obvious that "unlikely" became "impossible." 

[+ sync]

11 hours ago, jeezopete said:

Just like every other story, it depends on the version we get:

 

In her first interview, Mrs. Dawood said she had planned to go with her husband to view the wreck of the Titanic, but the trip was cancelled because of the Covid pandemic. "Then I stepped back and gave them space to set [Suleman] up, because he really wanted to go," she said.

"I was really happy for them because both of them, they really wanted to do that for a very long time," she said.

Teenager on sub took Rubik's Cube to break record, mother tells BBC

WWW.YAHOO.COM

---

Christine Dawood told the BBC she lost hope of her son being found alive when the 96-hour mark passed.

 

Agreed.  An attempt to gloss over any suggestion of a fatal coercion would not be surprising.

[BSR]

4 hours ago, mike carey said:

You don't give up, do you. You can spout wild generalities tho advance your various arguments, and some retrospective analysis here of what had been suspected (strongly suspected in some cases I accept) but later confirmed as having been accurate suspicions. You are entitled to, and do cite Expert Witness A to support your case. You are not entitled to demand, as you regularly do, that those who disagree tick every box in a list of criteria that you deem necessary for them to make their case, nor to demand that others produce a list of their own of who said what and when. The review of the incident time line, which the US and Canadian authorities will undertake when not under the pressure that a critical incident generates, will determine what could have, or should have (not the same thing) been understood from the available data. Sometimes there is confusion in the heat of the moment, sometimes through lack of information, at other times through timidity in interpreting the information at hand. But for you, it's always evidence of some grand political conspiracy, and you don't hesitate to assert here that that is the case.

In this video, James Cameron details how he came to the conclusion on Monday morning that the sub was gone.  When he sends out emails to all his contacts in the deep-dive community, note that he doesn't mention any contradictory responses.  In other words, everyone knew the sub was gone.  That's why I am so convinced.  Go ahead & buy into government propaganda (always a good source, uh huh) if you so choose.  I choose to believe the deep-dive community.

 

[CuriousByNature]

2 hours ago, BSR said:

In this video, James Cameron details how he came to the conclusion on Monday morning that the sub was gone.  When he sends out emails to all his contacts in the deep-dive community, note that he doesn't mention any contradictory responses.  In other words, everyone knew the sub was gone.  That's why I am so convinced.  Go ahead & buy into government propaganda (always a good source, uh huh) if you so choose.  I choose to believe the deep-dive community.

 

Mr. Cameron is but one voice, and if I was a family member of the missing people I would HOPE that the authorities would not gear their efforts based on his advice.  It is of no consequence or help to the families that he weighed in AFTER the wreckage was located anyway.   This tragedy was an opportunity for him to grab some of the spotlight and and come off looking like he knows more than those who actually undertook the search.

[MikeBiDude]

2 hours ago, CuriousByNature said:

Mr. Cameron is but one voice, and if I was a family member of the missing people I would HOPE that the authorities would not gear their efforts based on his advice.  It is of no consequence or help to the families that he weighed in AFTER the wreckage was located anyway.   This tragedy was an opportunity for him to grab some of the spotlight and and come off looking like he knows more than those who actually undertook the search.

 I think you seriously underestimate Mr. Cameron’s expertise and experience in this field.

[CuriousByNature]

5 minutes ago, MikeBiDude said:

 I think you seriously underestimate Mr. Cameron’s expertise and experience in this field.

Possibly

[pubic_assistance]

I think @Unicorn makes the best point in his "98 out of 101 dead" logic.

When tragedy strikes humans will typically cling to hope until absolutely certain there is nothing to cling to.

I don't doubt Mr. Cameron was 99.9% sure the vessel had a catastrophic failure.  But for the family - assurance of that .1% will be necessary to bring closure.

I've seen people keep loved ones on life support long after brain activity has shut down, never to return. Just on the slightest of chances a miracle will happen.

People spend too many years listening to fairy tales as children and end up as adults who believe in miracles.

Edited June 27, 2023 by pubic_assistance

[Archangel]

On 6/25/2023 at 8:13 AM, robberbaron4u said:

Folly? Perhaps. Then again, they punched their tickets to the greatest adventure life affords us: Death.

Sounds like something Wilde would say!

[marylander1940]

On 6/26/2023 at 12:24 AM, Coolwave35 said:

I miss the politics forum. It had been a great catch all, dumping ground cesspool of posts that was easy to ignore. 

Even if the forum is gone some folks MUST bring politics to all other subjects. 

On 6/27/2023 at 11:28 AM, CuriousByNature said:

Possibly

Agreed! 

if there's a 1% chance of survival efforts must be made. I'm sure Mr. Cameron in a similar situation would you like the US Navy not to give up. As I said before, the company should get the bill. 

On 6/27/2023 at 6:01 AM, BSR said:

In this video, James Cameron details how he came to the conclusion on Monday morning that the sub was gone.  When he sends out emails to all his contacts in the deep-dive community, note that he doesn't mention any contradictory responses.  In other words, everyone knew the sub was gone.  That's why I am so convinced.  Go ahead & buy into government propaganda (always a good source, uh huh) if you so choose.  I choose to believe the deep-dive community.

 

Trust in science and facts goes on and off according to convenience and in order to spread conspiracy theories. 

Some are praising Cameron now and will make fun of his opinions later. 

Now some of the families will have closure! 

Human remains likely recovered from wreckage of Titan submersible, Coast Guard says

WWW.USATODAY.COM

---

The U.S. Coast Guard announced it has likely recovered human remains from the Titan sub a week after it imploded, killing all five people on board.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by marylander1940

[CuriousByNature]

1 hour ago, marylander1940 said:

Even if the forum is gone some folks MUST bring politics to all other subjects. 

Agreed! 

if there's a 1% chance of survival efforts must be made. I'm sure Mr. Cameron in a similar situation would you like the US Navy not to give up. As I said before, the company should get the bill. 

Trust in science and facts goes on and off according to convenience and in order to spread conspiracy theories. 

Some are praising Cameron now and will make fun of his opinions later. 

Now some of the families will have closure! 

Human remains likely recovered from wreckage of Titan submersible, Coast Guard says

WWW.USATODAY.COM

---

The U.S. Coast Guard announced it has likely recovered human remains from the Titan sub a week after it imploded, killing all five people on board.

 

It's amazing that any human remains might have been found - I would never have expected that.  But perhaps it's just traces of tissue - I doubt we'll ever be told one way or the other, which is not something we observers need to know anyway.

[marylander1940]

11 minutes ago, CuriousByNature said:

It's amazing that any human remains might have been found - I would never have expected that.  But perhaps it's just traces of tissue - I doubt we'll ever be told one way or the other, which is not something we observers need to know anyway.

Certainly! I am also surprised such a large piece of the submarine was found; I thought the implosion was so strong that only small pieces of debris would be left. 

Edited June 30, 2023 by marylander1940

[samhexum]

On 6/22/2023 at 2:55 PM, Luv2play said:

people get caught up in these stories, just like the story of Amelia Erhardt. Its just human behavior.

 

On 6/22/2023 at 3:39 PM, samhexum said:

Think of the endless press coverage there will be when she's found alive.

For dozens of explorers, Amelia Earhart is the one who got away — seemingly permanently.

However, a commercial real estate investor from Charleston, South Carolina, believes he might finally have found a vital piece of the 87-year-old puzzle.

The pioneering female aviator, a household name at the time, disappeared with her flight navigator on what was to be a record-setting trip around the world in 1937.

Despite many attempts and millions of dollars spent over nine decades, neither Earhart’s remains nor the wreckage of her plane have ever definitively been located.

But Tony Romeo, a pilot and a former US Air Force intelligence officer who sold all his commercial properties to pay for his search, told The Wall Street Journal he thinks he found part of Earhart’s plane resting on the ocean floor.

Romeo says that his sonar image of an aircraft-shaped object in the Pacific Ocean may well be Earhart’s Lockheed 10-E Electra — and experts who have viewed the image say it’s worth investigating.

“This is maybe the most exciting thing I’ll ever do in my life,” Romeo told the Journal.

“I feel like a 10-year-old going on a treasure hunt.”  

Romeo and two of his brothers, all pilots, felt they would have better luck finding Earhart than the slew of past adventurers, many of whom were sailors.

“We always felt that a group of pilots were the ones that are going to solve this, and not the mariners,” Romeo told WSJ.

They tried to game Earhart’s flight path by studying her direction, location and fuel levels based on radio messages received by Itasca, the US Coast Guard vessel stationed near Howland Island to assist Earhart in landing and refueling.

They then drew up a search area based on where they thought Earhart was most likely to have crashed. 

Romeo spent $11 million to fund the trip and the high-tech gear.

Key to the search was an underwater “Hugin” drone.

His 16-person expedition launched in early September from Tarawa, Kiribati, a port near Howland Island, aboard a research vessel. 

The team’s unmanned submersible scanned 5,200 square miles of ocean floor, and after about a month, it captured a blurry image of an airplane-like object 5,000 meters beneath the surface within 100 miles of Howland Island.

However, the Earhart hunters didn’t find the intriguing drone image until three months into their trip, and by then it wasn’t feasible to backtrack, Romeo said.

He told WSJ he plans to make another excursion to get better pictures to hopefully help experts solve the decades-old mystery.

Dorothy Cochrane, a curator in the aeronautics department of the Smithsonian Institution’s National Air and Space Museum, told the outlet the area where the image was taken lines up with where Earhart scholars believe she might have been before she vanished.

“Until you physically take a look at this, there’s no way to say for sure what that is,” Andrew Pietruszka, an underwater archaeologist who helms deep-ocean searches for missing military aircraft and their soldiers, told the Journal.

On July 2, 1937, Earhart and Fred Noonan, her navigator, took off from Lae, Papua New Guinea, and planned to refuel on uninhabited Howland Island. A runway and refueling station had been built for them so they could journey on to Honolulu and Oakland, Calif., their final destination.

The two encountered a strong headwind in Lae, and operators monitored Earhart’s radio messages as she flew toward Howland — until she went silent.

After 16 days, the US Navy and Coast Guard ended their search for the missing trailblazer, who was declared dead on Jan. 5, 1939.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/27/news/plane-shaped-sonar-image-may-be-vital-clue-in-amelia-earhart-mystery/

 

[CuriousByNature]

15 hours ago, samhexum said:

 

For dozens of explorers, Amelia Earhart is the one who got away — seemingly permanently.

However, a commercial real estate investor from Charleston, South Carolina, believes he might finally have found a vital piece of the 87-year-old puzzle.

The pioneering female aviator, a household name at the time, disappeared with her flight navigator on what was to be a record-setting trip around the world in 1937.

Despite many attempts and millions of dollars spent over nine decades, neither Earhart’s remains nor the wreckage of her plane have ever definitively been located.

But Tony Romeo, a pilot and a former US Air Force intelligence officer who sold all his commercial properties to pay for his search, told The Wall Street Journal he thinks he found part of Earhart’s plane resting on the ocean floor.

Romeo says that his sonar image of an aircraft-shaped object in the Pacific Ocean may well be Earhart’s Lockheed 10-E Electra — and experts who have viewed the image say it’s worth investigating.

“This is maybe the most exciting thing I’ll ever do in my life,” Romeo told the Journal.

“I feel like a 10-year-old going on a treasure hunt.”  

Romeo and two of his brothers, all pilots, felt they would have better luck finding Earhart than the slew of past adventurers, many of whom were sailors.

“We always felt that a group of pilots were the ones that are going to solve this, and not the mariners,” Romeo told WSJ.

They tried to game Earhart’s flight path by studying her direction, location and fuel levels based on radio messages received by Itasca, the US Coast Guard vessel stationed near Howland Island to assist Earhart in landing and refueling.

They then drew up a search area based on where they thought Earhart was most likely to have crashed. 

Romeo spent $11 million to fund the trip and the high-tech gear.

Key to the search was an underwater “Hugin” drone.

His 16-person expedition launched in early September from Tarawa, Kiribati, a port near Howland Island, aboard a research vessel. 

The team’s unmanned submersible scanned 5,200 square miles of ocean floor, and after about a month, it captured a blurry image of an airplane-like object 5,000 meters beneath the surface within 100 miles of Howland Island.

However, the Earhart hunters didn’t find the intriguing drone image until three months into their trip, and by then it wasn’t feasible to backtrack, Romeo said.

He told WSJ he plans to make another excursion to get better pictures to hopefully help experts solve the decades-old mystery.

Dorothy Cochrane, a curator in the aeronautics department of the Smithsonian Institution’s National Air and Space Museum, told the outlet the area where the image was taken lines up with where Earhart scholars believe she might have been before she vanished.

“Until you physically take a look at this, there’s no way to say for sure what that is,” Andrew Pietruszka, an underwater archaeologist who helms deep-ocean searches for missing military aircraft and their soldiers, told the Journal.

On July 2, 1937, Earhart and Fred Noonan, her navigator, took off from Lae, Papua New Guinea, and planned to refuel on uninhabited Howland Island. A runway and refueling station had been built for them so they could journey on to Honolulu and Oakland, Calif., their final destination.

The two encountered a strong headwind in Lae, and operators monitored Earhart’s radio messages as she flew toward Howland — until she went silent.

After 16 days, the US Navy and Coast Guard ended their search for the missing trailblazer, who was declared dead on Jan. 5, 1939.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/27/news/plane-shaped-sonar-image-may-be-vital-clue-in-amelia-earhart-mystery/

 

I still think she wanted a singing career and disappeared to undergo extensive plastic surgery, only to return in the 1960s as Keith Richards.   Though some sources speculate Richards was born before Earhardt.  😂