Expressing a concern for Guy Fawkes/daddy

[Luv2play]

I also assumed the DNR was for someone who was terminally ill and in a medical setting, not for EMRs who had been summoned to a home in an emergency. That seems to me to put an unfair burden on the EMRs, who would not have expected to have to make that kind of decision.

I don't see it that way. I would think the DNR relieves the EMRs from having to make the decision since the decision is made before hand by the person who wrote it.

 

I also think that if a DNR is not followed, then if the person is brought back to life but suffers irreparable brain injury, the medics could be held accountable.

[Guest]

I don't see it that way. I would think the DNR relieves the EMRs from having to make the decision since the decision is made before hand by the person who wrote it.

 

I also think that if a DNR is not followed, then if the person is brought back to life but suffers irreparable brain injury, the medics could be held accountable.

...

The only reason they had done the DNR on the fridge was on account of her daughter, who was a physician and had advised them 6 months earlier. As a result, my step-mother's wishes were carried out.

That was the wrong form taped to the fridge. Advanced Directives/DNR wishes are for hospital staff. Paramedics are under standing orders and cannot really go by Advanced Directives. POLST forms are physicians' orders, done with the patient's consent, which direct paramedics what to do once they arrive. Paramedics have orders to resuscitate unless there are contrary (POLST) orders. This video explains the difference:

https://polst.org/

Paramedics are not trained or licensed to evaluate or change their orders according to Advanced Directives. If someone calls paramedics and there is no POLST order to show them, they are required by law to resuscitate the patient.

[Luv2play]

That was the wrong form taped to the fridge. Advanced Directives/DNR wishes are for hospital staff. Paramedics are under standing orders and cannot really go by Advanced Directives. POLST forms are physicians' orders, done with the patient's consent, which direct paramedics what to do once they arrive. Paramedics have orders to resuscitate unless there are contrary (POLST) orders. This video explains the difference:

https://polst.org/

Paramedics are not trained or licensed to evaluate or change their orders according to Advanced Directives. If someone calls paramedics and there is no POLST order to show them, they are required by law to resuscitate the patient.

I understand POLST orders are relatively new but in any case they did not exist in Canada 20 years ago. The DNR order as I said was done by my stepmother's daughter, who was a physician. Since my step mother was in cardiac arrest and not breathing, once they read the order, they stopped from applying an electric charge to try to start the heart. They had only got to the stage of putting on the electrodes to her upper chest.

 

I arrived at their home 20 minutes after this happened and the coroner and police were already there. I had pre-arranged with my father to pick him up to take him on a one week trip. If we had decided to leave one hour earlier, she would have died alone. My dad called 911 which was the right thing to do. As it was, I had to answer a few questions as to why I was there. A few minutes later the coroner signed the death certificate stating she had died of natural causes.

[Guest]

I understand POLST orders are relatively new but in any case they did not exist in Canada 20 years ago....

Yes, obviously I was talking about US law, since we were talking about Daddy. In California, the coroner almost never signs the death certificate, unless there are suspicious circumstances the coroner needs to investigate. When patients passed away at home or before being hospitalized, I would have to inquire as to the circumstance of the death and make my best guess.

[Guest]

My suggestion with planning docs like DNR’s and Healthcare POA’s is that you submit copies with your PCP and local hospitals in the event of emergency.

[former lurker]

I understand POLST orders are relatively new but in any case they did not exist in Canada 20 years ago. The DNR order as I said was done by my stepmother's daughter, who was a physician. Since my step mother was in cardiac arrest and not breathing, once they read the order, they stopped from applying an electric charge to try to start the heart. They had only got to the stage of putting on the electrodes to her upper chest.

 

I arrived at their home 20 minutes after this happened and the coroner and police were already there. I had pre-arranged with my father to pick him up to take him on a one week trip. If we had decided to leave one hour earlier, she would have died alone. My dad called 911 which was the right thing to do. As it was, I had to answer a few questions as to why I was there. A few minutes later the coroner signed the death certificate stating she had died of natural causes.

 

Your post prompted a tangential thought: the legalities are much smoother when medical professionals pronounce death, usually in a hospital setting. My brother took his life in a one-car crash. His cause of death was obviously suicide, but it took months to sort out with the medical examiner, his body had to be identified, blood tests were run to rule out a chemical cause of the crash, etc. My father died in the hospital. My mom died at home, in my presence, but as her breathing started to halt I called 911. The EMTs attempted to revive her, then took her to the hospital where she was pronounced. My parent's deaths were logistically smoother because they were pronounced in hospitals.

[Luv2play]

Yes, obviously I was talking about US law, since we were talking about Daddy. In California, the coroner almost never signs the death certificate, unless there are suspicious circumstances the coroner needs to investigate. When patients passed away at home or before being hospitalized, I would have to inquire as to the circumstance of the death and make my best guess.

I think in my dad’s case the coroner was called because they might have suspected foul play, because of his wife’s sudden death with no apparent trauma but a pillow would have sufficed. I was surprised to see him there actually, but as a lawyer, I could see what they were trying to establish. Was I in on a plan with my father?

He had already given his version of events before I arrived and when they questioned me, my version coincided with his.

[+ LS299B]

How did this thread get hijacked to discuss anyone else's health status except for Guy Fawkes/daddy?

 

Can we please keep this thread on point "Expressing a concern for Guy Fawkes/daddy."

 

If you'd like to talk about your own personal health, the laws and ethics around health care directives, etc., please create a new separate thread!

[Luv2play]

How did this thread get hijacked to discuss anyone else's health status except for Guy Fawkes/daddy?

 

Can we please keep this thread on point "Expressing a concern for Guy Fawkes/daddy."

 

If you'd like to talk about your own personal health, the laws and ethics around health care directives, etc., please create a new separate thread!

Part of the concern we have about Daddy’s condition is also related in addition to his health the steps that can be taken to try to avoid falling into his situation when one lives alone and has a health crisis. There have been several suggestions that have been very useful in knowing how to prepare oneself. All of life is a learning experience if we are open to discussing things openly and with good intentions.

 

Of course we are deeply concerned about Daddy but there is precious little we can do about it in the current circumstances.

[+ WilliamM]

Part of the concern we have about Daddy’s condition is also related in addition to his health the steps that can be taken to try to avoid falling into his situation when one lives alone and has a health crisis. There have been several suggestions that have been very useful in knowing how to prepare oneself. All of life is a learning experience if we are open to discussing things openly and with good intentions.

 

Of course we are deeply concerned about Daddy but there is precious little we can do about it in the current circumstances.

With respect, we could start another thread on the subject you suggested

Edited March 12, 2021 by WilliamM

[bostonman]

Please let's just get back to Daddy and his hopeful recovery.

[rvwnsd]

o

Please let's just get back to Daddy and his hopeful recovery.

My sentiments exactly!

 

While threads, like in-person conversations, often drift, let's use our heads (big or little - whichever one gets the job done) and keep THIS one on the topic of how Guy is doing.

[Cooper]

Update Friday, March 12th. I sent the social worker a few additional names of associates of daddy’s. Hopefully, these leads can turn up someone related to him or someone who might have POA. Thanks to those sending me this information.

 

Daddy’s condition remains the same. No change from Wednesday’s report.

 

It’s now over 2 weeks since the police found daddy on the floor of his home. Other than keeping him in our thoughts, prayers, or sending good karma, we just have to patiently wait for the healing/recovery process to kick in.

 

I truly appreciate all the concern and love you’ve shown for daddy/Guy Fawkes. He means a lot to us. I’ll do my best to keep you posted.

 

Cooper ❤️

[orville]

I truly appreciate all the concern and love you’ve shown for daddy/Guy Fawkes. He means a lot to us. I’ll do my best to keep you posted.

Thanks for the updates @Cooper.

I've heard that unconscious patients who were treated with very high doses of Vit D experienced faster recoveries.

Not trying to hijack this thread but if they're not trying this on Daddy, can someone suggest it to the medical staff?

It's supposed to be a highly efficient and cheap way of treatment.

 

[+ purplekow]

Redent studies show no benefit with Vitamin D in Cvid. After an initial Cvid test is positive it may stay positive for many months. CDC does not suggest a repeat for 3 months. Daddy is diabetic and was found lying on the floor, there is a lot more going on than just Cvid even if he has that. Hope is all we have left when there is nothing else to hang onto. I will be hoping for a dramatic recovery for him.

[Guest]

...

I've heard that unconscious patients who were treated with very high doses of Vit D experienced faster recoveries.

...

Thanks for the updates, @Cooper. Although there have been associations between low vitamin D levels on admission and poor prognosis, a recent randomized clinical trial comparing high-dose vitamin D with placebo showed no difference:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776738

As always, associations do not imply causation. There appears to be another explanation for the association of low vitamin D levels and poor prognosis, probably related to socioeconomic status or other health behaviors of the patient prior to admission...

Even remdesivir has recently shown in more robust studies not to be helpful. The most helpful interventions that have passed scrutiny are immune suppressing medications (i.e. dexamethasone), blood thinners (such as Eliquis), and prone (on the stomach) positioning. Lung transplants have saved some lives, and I hope that's on the table if Daddy will benefit.

Edited March 14, 2021 by Unicorn

[+ tassojunior]

Was this mostly diabetes or covid?

[Guest]

Was this mostly diabetes or covid?

One does not go on a ventilator due to diabetes, especially for this amount of time. At the risk of being told to shut up again, I must confess to feeling anger towards the nurse who appears to have given Daddy bad advice and put his life in jeopardy. Just my personal feelings.

[+ WilliamM]

One does not go on a ventilator due to diabetes, especially for this amount of time. At the risk of being told to shut up again, I must confess to feeling anger towards the nurse who appears to have given Daddy bad advice and put his life in jeopardy. Just my personal feelings.

To be fair, we don't know the nurse's side of the story. For example, was she/he an actual nurse, or an assistant

Edited March 14, 2021 by WilliamM

[wayout]

Keeping good thoughts and sending all my best wishes and hopes his way for his improvement, leading to a full recovery.

[Guest]

To be fair, we don't know the nurse's side of the story. For example, was she/he an actual nurse, or an assistant

Yes, that's why I wrote "appears to." That being said, giving medical advice when one is not a physician, RN, or PA-C isn't just "wrong," it's illegal. Obviously, I'm just hearing things second-hand and I realize that. I'm simply expressing the way I feel.

[Cooper]

Update: 3.15.21. Called the hospital @ 8:30am NY time to inquire about daddy’s/Guy Fawkes condition. There has been no change. He remains sedated, on a ventilator, with a feeding tube. There have been several unsuccessful attempts to wake him. The hospital said they “don’t want to sugar coat his condition”. Simply put, it doesn’t look good.

 

I’ll contact the social worker later today and see if she’s had any luck locating a family member or someone who can act as his legal guardian.

 

Cooper

[Guest]

Thank you for the update Cooper, it doesn't sound good. Right now my hope is the social worker can find family or a legal guardian. But there have been stories where people in the same condition pulled through after doctors said it looked hopeless. Let's keep positive thoughts.

[liubit]

Thank you for the update, @Cooper, even if the picture is far from encouraging. Let’s keep our hopes up anyway.

[+ keroscenefire]

Thanks for the update Cooper. Not looking good, but I am going to keep on hoping and sending good thoughts that Daddy can come out of this.