Getting tired of Flakes

[+ JamesB]

3 hours ago, williamv said:

If YOU seek out a provider and want to meet them, you should do it on their terms.

While it’s reasonable to consider a provider’s terms when seeking their services, your statement is overly rigid and ignores the mutual nature of professional relationships. Meeting a provider should involve mutual agreement, not unilateral demands. Both parties have needs, clients seek services, but providers benefit from the engagement too. Insisting on only the provider’s terms dismisses the client’s side. A fair arrangement balances both sides, fostering respect and collaboration rather than one party dictating terms.

 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

3 hours ago, williamv said:

If YOU seek out a provider and want to meet them, you should do it on their terms. They ask me for a $100, $250, $500 deposit all of the time. If they have good reviews and they seem accomodating then be willing to send it or don't waste your time. It's a risk, I get it. But how you mitigate that risk is by checking reviews and feeling them out a little.

Not to open this can of worms, but you're new here, so I would say I'm happy to make a deposit to prove I'm serious. I am not willing to send more than $50. And that's assuming everything else has already checked out. Most people who are going to send $50 are serious. And the two times I've gone over that, the deposit was not returned even though I needed to change plans for reasons beyond my control. 

We're all human and there are excellent providers. I try to see them, give them reviews and, when possible, send them business.  We recently had a great provider who was visiting from London. I recommended him to a friend who frequently goes to London for business, and he's seen him twice. Then there are shitty providers, who won't return a deposit when you need to change plans and it's 72 hours or more in advance. And the same applies to clients. 

But based on any time spent on Grindr, etc., I would guess clients flake a lot more than providers. Because I see how guys act when there's no money on the table. 

[Luv2play]

1 hour ago, Whoisyourdaddy said:

Hi, Luv2play. A few will host. A majority won't. 

It might have something to do with the kind of guys I pursue (young twink/twunk types).

In my experience the majority will host in the their  hotels. But they are professionals that I hire, in the 25 to 45 or older age group. I think they are the majority in this business as they stick with it for many years. The young ones come and go. 

Edited Sunday at 12:12 AM by Luv2play

[italianboyph]

Trust me I fully relate and understand completely, as it’s happened to me quite often. It’s exhausting and really annoying honestly. Making plans and them either not showing up or even responding ghosting. People get off on playing games.

[mrkileen]

11 hours ago, maninsoma said:

The problem with that advice is that there are a lot of legitimate clients who won't pay a deposit unless it's for an extended booking, so that strategy will likely result in far fewer clients.

You do have a point. However it's done on a case by case basis. If a client ghosts you when you ask for a deposit then they weren't a match anyway. Anytime after 1130pm, a deposit should be expected and respected for outcalls. 

[mrkileen]

4 hours ago, Luv2play said:

I notice you joined this forum less than a month ago. That’s great that you want to join the discussions here. I don’t know if you were a lurker before joining but in any case we have a long history of the deposit issue. The general consensus is  not to pay a deposit except in certain limited circumstances such as extended multi day engagements.

I have no idea of what market you hire in but being always asked for deposits in the 200 to 500 $ range as you assert is not the norm in any market I am aware of and over the last 30 years or more I have hired throughout North America and many times in Europe. I have rarely if ever been asked to pay a deposit. I only once paid an airfare for someone from San Francisco to meet me in Montreal. And that worked out fine as we were together for 3 days. 

But then I am a premium client on RM and even before then was always seen as a reliable client by the way I presented myself. I always conduct myself in the same way in other commercial transactions. Being trustworthy engenders trust. 

A deposit shows you have skin in the game. Imagine you're a provider and 10 people a day try to get you to come to a hotel or location, let's say half get cold feet, are pranking you etc. You wouldn't do that job for very long. There are serious clients who can't send money due to privacy concerns. I understand that. And a 250+ deposit would be for an overnight and a $500 deposit would be for a weekend. 

You want someone to agree to meet you, fulfill your wishes, set time aside for you, be mentally and physically ready to see you and be able to focus on providing you a service and you expect them to just trust the word of a complete stranger? When you book an Uber, it charges your card before you get the Uber. Ever been to a chiropractor? They charge a deposit. Fly on an airline? You pay before you fly. Its that way because it keeps things running smoother. 

Imagine you were an electrician and some assholes wanted to play games with you and make you drive all over town to fuck with you. A deposit would stop that. Its out of respect for the provider. That goes along way. These guys deal with mental abuse on a daily basis. Its a stressful gig. 

All this time spend discussing something that should be a given.

And the fact of when I joined, I don't know why that would matter. Im not saying I'm right about everything.  Im offering something from my perspective. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt. Follow your heart. 

[williamv]

5 hours ago, Luv2play said:

I notice you joined this forum less than a month ago. That’s great that you want to join the discussions here. I don’t know if you were a lurker before joining but in any case we have a long history of the deposit issue. The general consensus is  not to pay a deposit except in certain limited circumstances such as extended multi day engagements.

I have no idea of what market you hire in but being always asked for deposits in the 200 to 500 $ range as you assert is not the norm in any market I am aware of and over the last 30 years or more I have hired throughout North America and many times in Europe. I have rarely if ever been asked to pay a deposit. I only once paid an airfare for someone from San Francisco to meet me in Montreal. And that worked out fine as we were together for 3 days. 

But then I am a premium client on RM and even before then was always seen as a reliable client by the way I presented myself. I always conduct myself in the same way in other commercial transactions. Being trustworthy engenders trust. 

A deposit shows respect for their time. Not all are capable and it's important to feel the person out for both ends. 

[williamv]

4 hours ago, JamesB said:

While it’s reasonable to consider a provider’s terms when seeking their services, your statement is overly rigid and ignores the mutual nature of professional relationships. Meeting a provider should involve mutual agreement, not unilateral demands. Both parties have needs, clients seek services, but providers benefit from the engagement too. Insisting on only the provider’s terms dismisses the client’s side. A fair arrangement balances both sides, fostering respect and collaboration rather than one party dictating terms.

 

It isn't a professional relationship. It's a professional service. If you seek them out I believe you should do it on their terms or they'll tell you no and you don't get to meet them. If you really want to meet some dreamy guy and he asks for 100 bucks to hold a spot for someone he's never met before, i think thats very fair. If you booked a clown for a birthday party, he would require a deposit. Shouldn't they get the same respect as a clown? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is mine.

[realestateguy75]

4 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

Not to open this can of worms, but you're new here, so I would say I'm happy to make a deposit to prove I'm serious. I am not willing to send more than $50. And that's assuming everything else has already checked out. Most people who are going to send $50 are serious. And the two times I've gone over that, the deposit was not returned even though I needed to change plans for reasons beyond my control. 

We're all human and there are excellent providers. I try to see them, give them reviews and, when possible, send them business.  We recently had a great provider who was visiting from London. I recommended him to a friend who frequently goes to London for business, and he's seen him twice. Then there are shitty providers, who won't return a deposit when you need to change plans and it's 72 hours or more in advance. And the same applies to clients. 

But based on any time spent on Grindr, etc., I would guess clients flake a lot more than providers. Because I see how guys act when there's no money on the table. 

Whats all the "you’re new here" bullshit. 

You mean the longer I sit on a computer in my underwear discussing guys ill never have the nerve or the money to see that will make my word worth more?

Thats ok, you can have that. I hire PREMIUM and while I read about guys whining about a 50 dollar deposit I just send a guy 200 and that will get his attention fast. Money does certainly talk. And bullshit walks. I get the idea some of you are just hobbyists sitting around criticizing providers who you cant afford to see or they'd never give you the time of day anyway.

Im a below average looking 53 year old. But i pay good and im very considerate and that's why I think I always have a great experience.

I say lots of great things about the guys I've seen. The reason is I only hire at the top of the food chain. I always go after the upscale Instagram model looking ones and I haven't been disappointed in 20 years. It pays to play. 

[hungry4darkmeat]

8 hours ago, Whoisyourdaddy said:

As a client, it's frustrating when I'm in a hotel room, and a provider doesn't show up. It takes time and coordination to get a last-minute room.

I'll never understand why providers won't host in their hotel rooms when they're visiting my city.

This is a great point. I tell providers that I need them to be on time- I’m not made of time or money so when I get a chance to get out, get the room sorted, get myself all cleaned up and do all the preparation only to have the provider either not show up at all or message me that they’re running really late and to wait or  keep coming up with excuses for the delay or worse yet just ghost me altogether.

it’s happened multiple times and there was one time that I didn’t even end up getting any action at all even though I had a great room for the whole night. So disappointing.

If a provider can host I am honestly more likely to follow through and also pay more since I don’t have to pay for a room.

[Walt]

32 minutes ago, realestateguy75 said:

You mean the longer I sit on a computer in my underwear discussing guys ill never have the nerve or the money to see that will make my word worth more?

 

You're definitely correct. No matter how long people with too much money think about something, they always miss the truth by a mile.

[+ Pensant]

11 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

Then there are shitty providers, who won't return a deposit when you need to change plans and it's 72 hours or more in advance. And the same applies to clients. 

I doubt if most would ever return the deposit if you changed your plans. Consider it gone.

[maninsoma]

The relevance of how long someone has been a member is simply that others here have little idea who you are.  For example, you could be someone who's been active on the site for a long time but decided to create a new profile simply to promote a specific point of view or specific provider while not having your posts tied to your well known identity.  

At the end of the day, this deposit or no deposit issue will never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.  It's clearly in the provider's benefit as long as he has sufficient business to make up for the loss of some clients who never pay a deposit.  For a variety of reasons (privacy and concerns about being scammed being the top two) some clients will never pay a deposit.  It isn't like either side is incorrect, even if some of the arguments for requiring a deposit are far off the mark.  But I think even the "no deposits ever" clients here will acknowledge that a provider can run his business how he wants to (charge a higher than market rate, require a deposit, require a face photograph, etc), and they can simply book a different provider if they don't like those policies.

[+ JamesB]

9 hours ago, williamv said:

It isn't a professional relationship. It's a professional service. If you seek them out I believe you should do it on their terms or they'll tell you no and you don't get to meet them. If you really want to meet some dreamy guy and he asks for 100 bucks to hold a spot for someone he's never met before, i think thats very fair. If you booked a clown for a birthday party, he would require a deposit. Shouldn't they get the same respect as a clown? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This is mine.

 

The argument that seeking a professional service, such as hiring a clown or meeting a "dreamy guy," requires agreeing to the provider’s terms, including a deposit, oversimplifies the dynamics of professional engagements and unfairly prioritizes the provider’s interests.

The claim that this is solely a "professional service" and not a relationship dismisses the mutual respect inherent in any professional interaction. Even in service based engagements, both parties, client and provider, have valid needs. My concern with deposits is that they solely benefit the provider and offer no protection to the client. A deposit secures the provider’s time but leaves the client vulnerable if the provider cancels, underperforms, or fails to deliver as promised. Additionally, there’s a privacy risk and the possibility of creating a paper trail that could come back to bite you later. The assertion that deposits are standard, like for a clown, ignores that most providers do not require them. Comparing a provider to a clown and arguing they deserve the same respect overlooks that respect is mutual. A clown’s deposit is part of a structured agreement, often backed by contracts or booking platforms, ensuring accountability. In contrast, a vague demand for $100 to “hold a spot” lacks transparency and accountability. Respect is earned through clear communication and fair terms, not blind compliance with one party’s demands.

While providers can set terms, clients are not obligated to accept them unquestioningly. A professional service should involve negotiation and transparency, ensuring both parties’ needs are met. Deposits may be reasonable in some very specific cases but since most providers operate without requiring one, clients should feel empowered to seek those who prioritize mutual trust over rigid demands.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

8 hours ago, realestateguy75 said:

You mean the longer I sit on a computer in my underwear discussing guys ill never have the nerve or the money to see that will make my word worth more?

 

Girl, I don't know who you think you're talking to, but this response reads as a TROLL. You come in swinging on someone who is among the first to advocate for providers and - as said above - am happy to pay a reasonable deposit. 

8 hours ago, realestateguy75 said:

I get the idea some of you are just hobbyists sitting around criticizing providers who you cant afford to see or they'd never give you the time of day anyway.

You have totally gotten the wrong person. There may be people like that on here but I'm not one of them. Rather, I'm an excellent client with several regulars. 

8 hours ago, realestateguy75 said:

Im a below average looking 53 year old.

This part, I believe. I'm an above-average-looking, fit, and fun guy of a similar age. So our experiences are bound to be different. 

8 hours ago, realestateguy75 said:

The reason is I only hire at the top of the food chain. I always go after the upscale Instagram model looking ones

"The top of the food chain..." is exactly the kind of toxic thinking that leads clients to treat providers poorly. 

[+ BOZO T CLOWN]

3 hours ago, JamesB said:

The argument that seeking a professional service, such as hiring a clown or meeting a "dreamy guy," requires.........

In reality, those two terms are interchangeable!
Bozo never met a clown that wasn't a dreamy guy... unless it was a female clown.

BTC
🤡

[mrkileen]

6 hours ago, Pensant said:

I doubt if most would ever return the deposit if you changed your plans. Consider it gone.

Ive had every person return the deposit when they couldn't meet. If I end up not being able to meet that deposit is forfeited. 

[mrkileen]

4 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

Girl, I don't know who you think you're talking to, but this response reads as a TROLL. You come in swinging on someone who is among the first to advocate for providers and - as said above - am happy to pay a reasonable deposit. 

You have totally gotten the wrong person. There may be people like that on here but I'm not one of them. Rather, I'm an excellent client with several regulars. 

This part, I believe. I'm an above-average-looking, fit, and fun guy of a similar age. So our experiences are bound to be different. 

"The top of the food chain..." is exactly the kind of toxic thinking that leads clients to treat providers 

Not everyone in the industry is equal. Why aren't you a professional athlete? Some people have better skills and features than others. That doesn't make another worthless. But the premium is going to be more exclusive and more expensive. If you dont understand that then I'm not sure what to tell you. Its a fact of life. 

A Honda civic won't be the same price as a Bugatti.... Use your head.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

1 minute ago, mrkileen said:

Not everyone in the industry is equal. Why aren't you a professional athlete? Some people have better skills and features than others. That doesn't make another worthless. But the premium is going to be more exclusive and more expensive. If you dont understand that then I'm not sure what to tell you. Its a fact of life. 

A Honda civic won't be the same price as a Bugatti.... Use your head.

Okay, now I'm on to you. There have been a few long-time members who have recently stopped posting. I'm fairly certain you're one of them, as your writing style is nearly identical. A similar obsession with youth and beauty being the only currency in sex work. 

Why am I not a professional athlete? Maybe because I don't like sports. I also don't hire "Instagram models" because I don't find that type attractive. 

[Nightowl]

14 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

Okay, now I'm on to you. There have been a few long-time members who have recently stopped posting. I'm fairly certain you're one of them, as your writing style is nearly identical.

I think you’re on to something.  I’ve noticed the absence of a couple of very frequent posters as well.

[williamv]

33 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

Okay, now I'm on to you. There have been a few long-time members who have recently stopped posting. I'm fairly certain you're one of them, as your writing style is nearly identical. A similar obsession with youth and beauty being the only currency in sex work. 

Why am I not a professional athlete? Maybe because I don't like sports. I also don't hire "Instagram models" because I don't find that type attractive. 

Ok buddy. You should find a hobby. 

[williamv]

18 minutes ago, Nightowl said:

I think you’re on to something.  I’ve noticed the absence of a couple of very frequent posters as well.

Maybe they have things to do other than sit on here and critisize others. Maybe theyre out being productive and actually hiring instead of just gossiping. I'm not sure why the fact that other older members aren't posting has anything to do with me?

[mrkileen]

40 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

Okay, now I'm on to you. There have been a few long-time members who have recently stopped posting. I'm fairly certain you're one of them, as your writing style is nearly identical. A similar obsession with youth and beauty being the only currency in sex work. 

Why am I not a professional athlete? Maybe because I don't like sports. I also don't hire "Instagram models" because I don't find that type attractive. 

https://youtu.be/vuBWbpTJRqk?si=qT3ahiGxWZjhQXKq