Non-Tipper

[Guest]

Questions for providers. Is not tipping a masseur you see on a regular basis bad form? I have been booking a guy on and off for about 2 years. I'm unable to tip, because his normal rate is on the high end. Lately, it's been difficult to schedule with him. I suspect that he's annoyed at the lack of tips, but doesn't want to come right out and tell me.

[pubic_assistance]

If you're hiring an independent contractor, with a significant rate and no extras were added, then tipping is optional.

[CuriousByNature]

2 minutes ago, PickyGuy said:

Questions for providers. Is not tipping a masseur you see on a regular basis bad form? I have been booking a guy on and off for about 2 years. I'm unable to tip, because his normal rate is on the high end. Lately, it's been difficult to schedule with him. I suspect that he's annoyed at the lack of tips, but doesn't want to come right out and tell me.

I'm not a provider, but maybe it depends on whether or not you are able to afford a tip.  If you can afford to give a tip but are not doing so because you think he's getting enough at his regular rate already, to me, that is like going to a fancy restaurant and not tipping because the dishes are already expensive.  In that case perhaps it is bad form. 

But if his normal rate is at a level that makes tipping a financial burden, that is a different story.  You could let him know that you feel bad that you cannot afford to tip because it's too difficult financially for you.  And that not being able to provide a tip is no reflection on the quality of his massages or the time you get to spend together.  Maybe bring something along for him that you have made yourself, like something you cooked or baked just for him, and tell him that while you are unable to tip him financially at this time, you really want to express how much you appreciate him and his services.  His response to that will tell you a lot.

Just make sure you don't give him anything he is allergic to, so that you don't inadvertently kill him 🤣   That wouldn't be much of a tip....

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CuriousByNature said:

I'm not a provider, but maybe it depends on whether or not you are able to afford a tip.  If you can afford to give a tip but are not doing so because you think he's getting enough at his regular rate already, to me, that is like going to a fancy restaurant and not tipping because the dishes are already expensive.  In that case perhaps it is bad form. 

But if his normal rate is at a level that makes tipping a financial burden, that is a different story.  You could let him know that you feel bad that you cannot afford to tip because it's too difficult financially for you.  And that not being able to provide a tip is no reflection on the quality of his massages or the time you get to spend together.  Maybe bring something along for him that you have made yourself, like something you cooked or baked just for him, and tell him that while you are unable to tip him financially at this time, you really want to express how much you appreciate him and his services.  His response to that will tell you a lot.

Just make sure you don't give him anything he is allergic to, so that you don't inadvertently kill him 🤣   That wouldn't be much of a tip....

Ok. Thx. The "fancy restaurant" analogy you gave makes sense.

[maninsoma]

13 minutes ago, PickyGuy said:

Ok. Thx. The "fancy restaurant" analogy you gave makes sense.

Actually, I was going to say that the restaurant analogy does not make sense for this reason:  At the fancy restaurant, any excess revenue goes to the business owner.  Unless that owner is generous with his staff, the employees might not be getting paid that well when tips are omitted, so getting those tips is a significant part of the waiter's salary.

A masseur sets his own prices (unless he's an employee at a salon).  If he has already set a top-of-the-market rate for himself, he's the one benefiting financially from that.  If you don't tip him, he's still getting paid well.

I'm not posting this to argue that clients shouldn't tip masseurs or escorts, and I generally do myself unless I end up feeling disappointed with the service, but if you cannot afford to pay more than this masseur's already high rate I wouldn't sweat it.  If he's become so popular that he no longer needs your business because you don't tip him, you can either chose to start paying him more if you like him that much or look for someone else within your price range.

[Monarchy79]

Independent masseurs absorb 100% of their rates, and usually scale their rates to bake in gratuity. Although they may be flattered by the tipping, I don’t believe they are bothered if they’re not.  Making an average of $180 an hour isn’t a bad deal at all.

 

 

[marylander1940]

1 hour ago, PickyGuy said:

Questions for providers. Is not tipping a masseur you see on a regular basis bad form? I have been booking a guy on and off for about 2 years. I'm unable to tip, because his normal rate is on the high end. Lately, it's been difficult to schedule with him. I suspect that he's annoyed at the lack of tips, but doesn't want to come right out and tell me.

You are overthinking!

You're paying him what he expects to receive and you are a regular and reliable client, that seems fair to me. 

Just out of curiosity how much is his rate?

[Oakman]

1 hour ago, PickyGuy said:

I suspect that he's annoyed at the lack of tips, but doesn't want to come right out and tell me.

Some people (you?) have a strange addiction to guilt. They give themselves reasons to feel guilty about inconsequential things. 
Your massage guy keeps booking you. It would seem he’s fine with the rate you are paying. Enjoy your massage and don’t pollute your joy with unnecessary guilt. 

[viewing ownly]

You should not have to feel that it's mandatory. However, there are providers who will not give you the time of day further if you don't. See how their ad is worded. If they bring up a gratuity, either that it's appreciated or not necessary, they're looking for one, so do so. When I'm in a financial crunch and therefore looking for an inexpensive option at the time, I don't have much to spare - but I also don't hear back!

[SirBillybob]

I pay one-third to one-half of my income to income tax depending on yearly fluctuations and I assume, perhaps unfairly at times or in unique cases, that the providers I hire do not declare any or most of the cash I give to them. Therefore, after I have drawn from my remaining net income following heavy deductions in order to pay him (them) he (they) get(s) let off with a substantial bonus by keeping earnings under the radar, in spite of signage all over my STI testing go-to clinic that states “sex work is work”. In fact, my income tax goes towards funding services like STI clinics that providers also access with little or no contribution themselves to the public coffers in spite of making bank well above income averages. The concept of gratuities is baked in for this reason along with others referenced upthread.

Edited January 24 by SirBillybob

[maninsoma]

26 minutes ago, SirBillybob said:

I pay one-third to one-half of my income to income tax depending on yearly fluctuations and I assume, perhaps unfairly at times or in unique cases, that the providers I hire do not declare any or most of the cash I give to them. Therefore, after I have drawn from my remaining net income following heavy deductions in order to pay him (them) he (they) get(s) let off with a substantial bonus by keeping earnings under the radar, in spite of signage all over my STI testing go-to clinic that states “sex work is work”. In fact, my income tax goes towards funding services like STI clinics that providers also access with little or no contribution themselves to the public coffers in spite of making bank well above income averages. The concept of gratuities is baked in for this reason along with others referenced upthread.

I'm not sure I buy the argument that most providers don't declare "any or most" of their income.  I could be convinced that a lot of providers (and other people who get paid in cash) don't declare all of their income.

[SirBillybob]

45 minutes ago, maninsoma said:

I'm not sure I buy the argument that most providers don't declare "any or most" of their income.  I could be convinced that a lot of providers (and other people who get paid in cash) don't declare all of their income.

Obviously there is no uniformity, but this actually supports my point and the idea that whatever is not declared is spared the higher marginal income tax rate at whatever tier into which it would otherwise land. But surely it’s wise to submit tax returns to avoid eventual default hassles from taxation entities, even if to declare up to basic personal tax exemption amounts. This is one tip I am happy to provide. It’s not my business to nose into others’ financial affairs but it’s my prerogative to second-guess factors that underpin justification for not tipping. 

Edited January 24 by SirBillybob

[BrooklynIrish]

I tip and not a huge amount for truly exceptional experiences, where I feel they've undersold themselves. Otherwise, they are setting their rate. When I do certain types of work, I set my rate and do not expect to be tipped. 

[56harrisond]

See some previous tipping discussions:

On 4/10/2024 at 6:08 AM, 56harrisond said:

 

 

[Bokomaru]

*If* you feel he deserves a tip but you can’t afford to, the simple solution is wait until you have enough money to tip him. Say you tip 20%. You only have to book him a bit less often and you’ll come out about even. And he’ll be happy to have you as a client. 

$200+40 tip x 4 sessions =$960

$200 + no tip x 5 sessions = $1,000

[la_connor]

3 hours ago, maninsoma said:

I'm not sure I buy the argument that most providers don't declare "any or most" of their income.  I could be convinced that a lot of providers (and other people who get paid in cash) don't declare all of their income.

About ten years ago, a provider told me he was being audited by the IRS because of his undeclared income. 

[Nightowl]

I always tip generously because I want to send the message that I value the masseur’s time and appreciate what he does for me.  In my case—an older but not decrepit man—I want to keep the door open to return, especially when the masseur is in young and in demand and could easily turn down future appointments from a guy who is no longer as hot as his younger clients.  I don’t consider his taxpaying practices at all.  If a big tip makes me stand out as a desirable client, I’ll keep doing it.

[+ Jamie21]

My regular clients mostly don’t tip. I don’t consider it bad form. This is the UK, where tipping is not such a cultural phenomenon. I have regular US clients though (regular visitors to London) and mostly they don’t tip. It doesn’t matter to me. I’m grateful for tips but it doesn’t make any difference to my approach. Maybe I’ll be a little more flexible in trying to make myself available for a high tip clients preferred booking time but that’s all. The biggest compliment is that clients return if they enjoyed their session. 

Edited January 24 by Jamie21

[pubic_assistance]

9 hours ago, CuriousByNature said:

that is like going to a fancy restaurant and not tipping because the dishes are already expensive.

No, it's not.

The waiter is an EMPLOYEE and very often underpaid.

Unless a masseur is working for a spa, he's pocketing the whole fee.

[CuriousByNature]

17 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

No, it's not.

The waiter is an EMPLOYEE and very often underpaid.

Unless a masseur is working for a spa, he's pocketing the whole fee.

I agree from that perspective, and I know it isn't a perfect analogy by any stretch (pun intended).   But my comment was meant to highlight a customer or client's attitude, not the effect tipping or not tipping has on the employee or masseur.   The idea that because the product is already pricey, there is no need to give an extra tip for good services.  This sort of attitude does not make much sense to me, but maybe that's just me.

Edited January 25 by CuriousByNature

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, CuriousByNature said:

The idea that because the product is already pricey, there is no need to give an extra tip for good services. 

When I dine at a five star restaurant in NYC, the bill can equal a minimum wage earner's entire weekly paycheck. But it's understood that my waiter just works there and isnt taking a cut of that action..so I still tip 18 to 20 percent on top of the outrageously high price.

If I visit a masseur or escort at their home, they are taking 100% of the fee.

I tip for exceptional service or extra service. But not for mere basic service.

Edited January 25 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[aiseeya]

12 hours ago, CuriousByNature said:

I agree from that perspective, and I know it isn't a perfect analogy by any stretch (pun intended).   But my comment was meant to highlight a customer or client's attitude, not the effect tipping or not tipping has on the employee or masseur.   The idea that because the product is already pricey, there is no need to give an extra tip for good services.  This sort of attitude does not make much sense to me, but maybe that's just me.

Do you tip your lawyer (on top of their hourly rate)? Doctor? vet? Therapist? 

[aiseeya]

On 1/24/2025 at 9:17 PM, PickyGuy said:

Questions for providers. Is not tipping a masseur you see on a regular basis bad form? I have been booking a guy on and off for about 2 years. I'm unable to tip, because his normal rate is on the high end. Lately, it's been difficult to schedule with him. I suspect that he's annoyed at the lack of tips, but doesn't want to come right out and tell me.

Move on. There are literally lotsa fishes in the sea....if you cant afford it, you probably shouldnt force it. No point putting yourself in a financial risks for this. 

[CuriousByNature]

13 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

When I dine at a five star restaurant in NYC, the bill can equal a minimum wage earner's entire weekly paycheck. But it's understood that my waiter just works there and isnt taking a cut of that action..so I still tip 18 to 20 percent on top of the outrageously high price.

If I visit a masseur or escort at their home, they are taking 100% of the fee.

I tip for exceptional service or extra service. But not for mere basic service.

Well @pubic_assistance, with all due respect, if your re-read the OP's post, he does not mention anywhere that the massage service is either exceptional or basic.  He says that this is a masseur he sees regularly.  And that he wonders if the masseur may not be as easy to schedule now due to annoyance over the lack of tips.  He asked the forum for opinions and I simply gave mine, and subsequently noted in reply to your reply that my restaurant analogy was not perfect.  It seems I might have inadvertently hit a nerve, which was not my intention.  I'm happy for you that you are able to dine at 5-star restaurants where the bill exceeds the weekly pay of a minimum-wage worker.  But thinking a masseur that has done a good job (which I assume is the case since he's a regular) should not receive some sort of tip because they keep 100% of their fee may be be short-sighted and based upon the assumption that masseurs make considerably more money when all is said and done.   

It's a physically demanding job which many clients may not appreciate.  A masseur has additional supply and equipment costs, and possibly overhead, that a waiter would not have.  There is the cost of advertising, and most masseurs probably have fluctuating incomes from week to week.  There may not be any clients for days, especially in the beginning.  If a diner cancels his reservation there are usually other diners already there to take the spot.  Even if the table is empty the waiter still gets paid, but absent the tip.  If a client cancels a massage, there goes the entire fee.  And possibly the entire day's income depending on how busy the masseur is.  Also, a waiter does not need to be alone with a stranger in a potentially intimate setting.  Consequently, masseurs may have to put themselves in uncomfortable and possibly threatening situations, depending on who is on their table.   This is not normally an issue for waiters.  I expect all of these considerations, and others I am ignorant of, come into play regarding massage fees.  That said, I see a tip as an appreciation of good service, or a way to help someone out without them feeling awkward.  It would not be something that should be expected, nor should it be given for sub-par service unless exceptional circumstances warrant it.

And in reply to @aiseeya, I do not tip my lawyer because it's a different sort of service that is provided and tipping a lawyer is neither common nor encouraged, but I do send her flowers periodically to express my appreciation for her work, and for sometimes not billing me for a quick call or email.  I do the same for my doctor, but with the currency of chocolate or gin.  I don't have a pet, so no tips for a vet.  And while I have been told MANY times to see a therapist, I have not yet done so!    

Edited January 26 by CuriousByNature

[pubic_assistance]

9 hours ago, CuriousByNature said:

I see a tip as an appreciation of good service, or a way to help someone out without them feeling awkward.  It would not be something that should be expected, nor should it be given for sub-par service ....

Correct.

Your explanation of business expenses has nothing to do with tipping. That's a matter of the provider setting their price for the service.

I do agree if you feel a provider has set the bar too low, for the quality of service, than a tip should be provided out of pity for their lack of business acumen.

I don't agree with your viewpoint that keeping 100% of the fee has no relationship to a business (such as a restaurant) where the tip is given to an EMPLOYEE.  Unless working st a spa, a masseur is a BUSINESS OWNER, not an employee. So ..NO...a tip is NOT a requirement for a business owner, unless you wish to thank them for EXCEPTIONAL service (or extras).

The exception, (as noted above) is IF you feel their price was undervalued. But then you are actually correcting their mistake, not really "tipping".  Giving them a "tip" in this case would be better if you handed them 30% more and SAID: "you should charge more for such wonderful service."