Getting tired of Flakes

[Sam Lankton]

I'm a provider and I have to be honest one of the worst parts of doing this is the consistent leading on and fake-outs. How are you going to talk to me for over an hour about making plans, then talk to me the entire way through the douching process, and then go MIA the second you're supposed to come over. I'm confused, is it to embarrass us or waste our time? Is it malicious? I don't get it. I'm exhausted. I'm douching my ass out, like that isn't a natural bodily process I really try not to do it unless I have to. 

Either follow through or don't waste provider's time. It's cruel. If you aren't ready to actually meet up with a provider please stop putting us through this.

Edited Friday at 06:12 AM by Sam Lankton

[hungry4darkmeat]

You’re not wrong. I’m a pretty reliable regular client but freely admit to having flaked on many dates both professional and not- and feel terrible about it. I’m not actually an asshole (which is what an asshole would say right) but do have some relativrly serious health issues plus I’m married and discreet so it’s not always easy for me to make everything work despite my best intentions.

I’m known for sending providers a generous cancellation fee but it’s still fucked up. No excuses definitely doing better now but it’s been a long road. 

I probably flaked on someone here and many more  out there in the universe, and sincerely apologize for being that guy.  In fact let me apologize for all the other flaky clients who  probably never intended  to disrespect you, waste your time or lead you on, but end up doing exactly that. 

karma sorts it all out - having personally paid karmically and financially for my past violations, and having made substantial progress in not being flaky by being honest and upfront about my situation with potential providers and making all plans a couple days in advance (which some providers seem to hate but works better for me). When I book a date a couple days beforehand it gives me the time to get myself together without having to rush, and since my dates usually involve me getting a room,  can take a couple hours to get myself ready. It’s just easier for me with a few days notice.

Btw If more providers could host in the city it would be a game changer but back to the topic.

Should someone build a website that allows everyone who uses hookup sites or adult services to rate their experience with other users anonymously so you can lookup their username from any site like Adam sniffies friendboy or rent men and see legit feedback from others who have been with them? Can it use photos as well so changing names won’t be like starting over?

anyway sorry to all the providers for the punks like me who talk you up and then leave you hanging. Don’t take it personal cause it’s not - they feel bad but if it’s not gonna work then there’s no arguing with the truth. I’ve flaked on providers before and then subsequently hired them for multiple sessions and tipped them well for being patient or forgiving, so you never really know. Just something to consider.

[+ PhileasFogg]

I can’t tell you how many times I hear of this happening.  I would never do that to someone - frankly, I don’t have the time to waste even thinking about it.   But I think there’s a more pervasive psychological issue here because it’s not limited to escorting.   I’ve experienced it in spades in activities as mundane as selling on FaceBook Marketplace.   Someone comes on hot and heavy wanting to buy something, beg you to ‘take it off the market,’ only to ghost you when it’s time to complete the sale.

Here’s the reality, people sometimes say “yes” in low-friction online spaces because the commitment costs them nothing in the moment.

• Low accountability: No deposits, no contracts, no face-to-face interaction.
• Present bias: They want to “lock it in” while the excitement is fresh, but when the time comes to follow through, effort or logistics outweigh the initial desire.

This is why some providers ask for deposits. While I’m generally unwilling to make a deposit,  I do try to be sensitive to the reality of a provider’s concern. This is also why I nearly always try to arrange a video call in advance of committing to an appointment.  There’s something about eye to eye contact that validates legitimacy or suspicion. 

And BTW, welcome to the forum!  Having providers here helps us all!

Edited Friday at 07:15 AM by PhileasFogg

[+ Jamie21]

1 hour ago, Sam Lankton said:

I'm a provider and I have to be honest one of the worst parts of doing this is the consistent leading on and fake-outs.

It’s the worst part. But you can learn to spot the signs of a flake. They all have them. Long chats for over an hour on the plans is a definite red flag for flakiness. If the chat goes on for ages about what they want to happen then basically I discount the booking as being unlike happen and I won’t do anything to prepare or commit to it. When the time comes to commit (last minute to douche or travel or whatever) I send a message asking him to confirm and if I get no response then I take it as a cancellation. Nothing lost on my side except the time chatting. 

What happens is like @PhileasFoggsays. They book when horny. When the time comes they’re no longer horny and the prospect of a real situation freaks them out. It’s usually guys on the down low. They watch porn, think it will be fun, build up a fantasy while booking and then come the day it’s all too much so they go quiet and ignore you like you’re just some loser who doesn’t deserve the respect of a message saying ‘sorry I changed my mind’. I keep their number, because sure enough in a years time they’ve forgotten, it all happens again and this time when they message me I can say ‘last time you no showed so I’m not dealing with you, goodbye’. 
 

[mike carey]

14 minutes ago, PhileasFogg said:

And BTW, welcome to the forum!  Having providers here helps us all!

I second that, @Sam Lankton. It's always good to have providers weigh in here, especially when they don't have to come here only to call out disrespectful clients. It's good for some of us to hear your advice, and your reflections on things that make interacting with clients a happier experience than the ones you cite above.

The interactions you receive here will probably be similar to those that we see other providers receive, they can be petty, judgmental and condescending. But they can also be warm, empathetic and encouraging. Ignore the bad, engage the good. You don't owe trolls a reaction.

[+ Pensant]

Besides Mr Number, I believe there’s another site where providers like @Sam Lankton can check up on flakes. I had a superb session in OC about ten days ago with a provider who wanted a deposit but I declined. He decided to drive down from WeHo since he checked me out on some site and I had great reviews from providers. I’ll have to check which site he used.

[jmichaeliii]

I get it is frustrating, but it is a two way street.  I have never flaked on a provider.  There have been times I have needed to cancel or reschedule (not often though), but I go out of my way to be as considerate as possible by notifying early or providing options to reschedule.

What I have seen is when those situations have come up, I have gotten either ignored or completely blocked even though I have presented alternate options.  I have also been no-showed at least a half dozen times.  Not in my local area, but when I have been in Vegas and LA.

I also recently booked a meet with a rather famous provider in Vegas, he took my deposit (yes I know, don't make deposits) then completely canceled his Rentmen account which was the only means to communicate with him.

With that said, the majority of my experiences have been positive and I have met some wonderful providers.  I factor these situations in as a risk when you partake in a hobby like this and are dealing with many types of personalities.

[+ PhileasFogg]

1 hour ago, Pensant said:

Besides Mr Number, I believe there’s another site where providers like @Sam Lankton can check up on flakes. I had a superb session in OC about ten days ago with a provider who wanted a deposit but I declined. He decided to drive down from WeHo since he checked me out on some site and I had great reviews from providers. I’ll have to check which site he used.

The other side is that @Sam Lankton can also leave a review on MrNumber as well.   I surely have on the providers who flaked out on me and/or ghosted me.   It's worth the $6/mo.   If all providers used it, the flakes would fade into oblivion quickly.   I also use a number registered to my name so they can google me and see I'm legit.

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 12:27 PM by PhileasFogg

[Nightowl]

32 minutes ago, PhileasFogg said:

 I also use a number registered to my name so they can google me and see I'm legit.

 

 

 

I do the same thing.  I also am more inclined to give my business to providers who use their own numbers unless I know something about them from another source such as this site.  

[Nightowl]

5 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

 

What happens is like @PhileasFoggsays. They book when horny. When the time comes they’re no longer horny and the prospect of a real situation freaks them out.
 

I’m just the opposite.  Not usually horny when I book since I do it weeks in advance, but raring to go when the real situation rolls around!😂

[mrkileen]

23 hours ago, Sam Lankton said:

I'm a provider and I have to be honest one of the worst parts of doing this is the consistent leading on and fake-outs. How are you going to talk to me for over an hour about making plans, then talk to me the entire way through the douching process, and then go MIA the second you're supposed to come over. I'm confused, is it to embarrass us or waste our time? Is it malicious? I don't get it. I'm exhausted. I'm douching my ass out, like that isn't a natural bodily process I really try not to do it unless I have to. 

Either follow through or don't waste provider's time. It's cruel. If you aren't ready to actually meet up with a provider please stop putting us through this.

Get a deposit my man, for some amount they dont want to lose. Value your time and respect yourself. 

[hungry4darkmeat]

I have had several providers flake on me as well so it cuts both ways 

[maninsoma]

10 hours ago, mrkileen said:

Get a deposit my man, for some amount they dont want to lose. Value your time and respect yourself. 

The problem with that advice is that there are a lot of legitimate clients who won't pay a deposit unless it's for an extended booking, so that strategy will likely result in far fewer clients.

[maninsoma]

10 hours ago, hungry4darkmeat said:

I have had several providers flake on me as well so it cuts both ways 

Same here.  I think it's worse for the party that's planning to bottom -- all of that prep for a no show is irritating.  Not that it isn't irritating anyway, but to have spent time preparing to bottom only to be ghosted is so frustrating.

[DMonDude]

I agree with others that the annoyance of dealing with flakes cuts both ways, but to me it's obviously worse for the provider. As when a client flakes on them they are losing money, which they obviously use to pay their bills and rent. A flaking client at the wrong time could mean a missed rent payment or other bill for the provider. For us clients, a flaking provider just means "ugh i got ready to bottom for nothing" (even though you could just go get on Grindr/Sniffies or go wake your husband up) or "ugh, i'm still horny, i guess i just have to get myself off tonight instead". They run a business and we're just having fun. So this is worse for one party than the other, it doesn't cut both ways equally.

Edited 21 hours ago by DMonDude

[+ Jamie21]

8 minutes ago, DMonDude said:

So this is worse for one party than the other, it doesn't cut both ways equally.

Agree. I’ve declined other clients in the past because I’ve got a booking and I’ve made a commitment. I’ve travelled to the clients hotel, or place, spent time preparing, making myself mentally and physically ready to see him….and then I either get ‘oh I changed my mind’ or some what sounds like a lame excuse or worse just complete ghosting. I feel like a fool for having taken someone seriously. I’ve lost business and wasted my time. But I’ve learned and now I can tell with 95% confidence who is a flake. 

What I do agree with some clients comments is when unscrupulous and unprofessional providers accept bookings, even deposits and then flake on the client. That’s totally unacceptable. But my advice to clients is to book with your head, not your dick. If he responds lackadaisically, wants a deposit without good justification, seems too good to be true, is evasive with details, has few reviews or they are too unrealistic, or he’s suddenly appeared on platforms, then use your common sense. Good providers will be professional in all their dealings with you. You won’t see any of these red flags if you book a good guy. 
 

[+ PhileasFogg]

3 hours ago, maninsoma said:

The problem with that advice is that there are a lot of legitimate clients who won't pay a deposit unless it's for an extended booking, so that strategy will likely result in far fewer clients.

Maybe, maybe not.   I can think of a case or two where I’ve gone along with no resistance 

- well reviewed BOTH here and on RM

- confirmed legitimacy with a video call prior to booking

- I’ve also offered to refer them to other guys to be comfortable with me 

90% of my engagements involve travel, so generally, the risk is ultimately on me and not the provider since I’m booking hotels and plane tickets.  

Edited 18 hours ago by PhileasFogg

[Whoisyourdaddy]

As a client, it's frustrating when I'm in a hotel room, and a provider doesn't show up. It takes time and coordination to get a last-minute room.

I'll never understand why providers won't host in their hotel rooms when they're visiting my city.

[maninsoma]

2 hours ago, DMonDude said:

I agree with others that the annoyance of dealing with flakes cuts both ways, but to me it's obviously worse for the provider. As when a client flakes on them they are losing money, which they obviously use to pay their bills and rent. A flaking client at the wrong time could mean a missed rent payment or other bill for the provider. For us clients, a flaking provider just means "ugh i got ready to bottom for nothing" (even though you could just go get on Grindr/Sniffies or go wake your husband up) or "ugh, i'm still horny, i guess i just have to get myself off tonight instead". They run a business and we're just having fun. So this is worse for one party than the other, it doesn't cut both ways equally.

1.  A client might also lose money if the escort flakes -- travel expenses and hotel expenses if he is hosting but cannot host where he lives.  You might argue that losing money you already earned is not as bad as not getting income you were promised, but they're basically the same thing in the sense that both are losing money.  The main difference would be for a provider that has no savings so the loss of income might result in him not being able to pay his bills.  

2.  For some of us, we don't have partners and it might not be that easy to open a hook-up app to find someone who interests us and is interested in us.  Even the suggestion that a client can just hire another escort at the last minute isn't really true as lots of providers aren't available at the drop of a hat.

[DMonDude]

2 hours ago, PhileasFogg said:

Maybe, maybe not.   I can think of a case or two where I’ve gone along with no resistance 

- well reviewed BOTH here and on RM

- confirmed legitimacy with a video call prior to booking

- I’ve also offered to refer them to other guys to be comfortable with me 

90% of my engagements involve travel, so generally, the risk is ultimately on me and not the provider since I’m booking hotels and plane tickets.  

Agreed, i have no problem doing a deposit if they're a provider who's fairly reputable/trustworthy and it's needed for them to go book the hotel room I'm meeting them at. I only really even need the first point you listed to be fine doing a deposit.

 

34 minutes ago, Whoisyourdaddy said:

As a client, it's frustrating when I'm in a hotel room, and a provider doesn't show up. It takes time and coordination to get a last-minute room.

I'll never understand why providers won't host in their hotel rooms when they're visiting my city.

I know one provider i hire whenever he's in my city. He saves money on a hotel by staying with an old friend he knows who lives in my city. So he does not host there. I don't host either, so he and i always get a room somewhere for our meets. Only other reason i can think of is certain providers maybe travel with a lot of personal or expensive belongings (one regular of mine always brings a decent amount of his jewelry for when he dresses up to go out places when he isn't seeing clients) and they don't trust having new clients over in the room with their stuff. My favorite traveling provider always does AirB&B instead of hotel though, so he hosts, has places he can put his personal/valuable stuff, can make sure there's parking for the client, no having to deal with everyone seeing us in a lobby together or dealing with front desk staff, etc. It's a really great way to do it.

 

19 minutes ago, maninsoma said:

1.  A client might also lose money if the escort flakes -- travel expenses and hotel expenses if he is hosting but cannot host where he lives.  You might argue that losing money you already earned is not as bad as not getting income you were promised, but they're basically the same thing in the sense that both are losing money.  The main difference would be for a provider that has no savings so the loss of income might result in him not being able to pay his bills.  

2.  For some of us, we don't have partners and it might not be that easy to open a hook-up app to find someone who interests us and is interested in us.  Even the suggestion that a client can just hire another escort at the last minute isn't really true as lots of providers aren't available at the drop of a hat.

1. True, but like you said in the last sentence, in their scenario the money is for things they need. A client wasting (what should be) extra fun money they can afford to spend, or lose if a provider flakes vs a provider losing out on actual needed income from their job (whether they have savings or not) if a client flakes, these are not equal or basically the same thing at all.

2. Yeah that is also true (I'm one of those people too), but again, us missing out on a little fun which isn't necessary for us to support our basic needs is not the same as providers losing income.

No matter how you split it, the burden is on the provider more than it is on us. That doesn't mean we can't be annoyed when a provider flakes on us though! It's annoying, but that's all it is. They're the ones losing more when they get flaked on.

Edited 18 hours ago by DMonDude

[williamv]

If YOU seek out a provider and want to meet them, you should do it on their terms. They ask me for a $100, $250, $500 deposit all of the time. If they have good reviews and they seem accomodating then be willing to send it or don't waste your time. It's a risk, I get it. But how you mitigate that risk is by checking reviews and feeling them out a little. They do this for money so if you want all these things for them, you should be willing to do it their way. They don't have to see you. I know from my experiences in talking with providers that the ones that send a deposit no problem usually always have a much better experience. When you make the person you want to hire feel at ease that generally equates to a much better experience for you. Yeah, it's a risk. But so is anything, never been to Atlantic City or Vegas? Never lost $100 in the casino before? It's not that serious. A real provider with good reviews probably won't burn you. If he does then report him. Any one that values their reputation isn't gonna risk it on cheating you out of 50, 60, 100 bucks. 

I can tell from what I've read on this site that some of these guys never book a provider, they're bored at home or just want a way to get off over the phone, or they're window shoppers and bargain hunters. My advice to you (which you won't take) is that quality items have a premium cost. 

You message a guy for his rate and he tells you it's 500 and you try to talk him down to 300 or something and if they do agree to meet with you, they will not have the same enthusiasm as they would if you just paid them their rate. That's a less fulfilling experience for YOU, the client. You shouldn't be reaching out to providers if you don't have the extra money to spend. Imagine you owned a business and people were constantly wasting your time and trying to haggle with you. It would get old, a less patient provider might even develop a bad attitude and resentment towards people who reach out to them.

I get it, everyone wants the highest quality even if their money and respect isn't in alignment. But if you want a good experience, do your research, be respectful and accomodating for the entirety of the interaction and be willing to pay the requested rate. 

A little courtesy and human decency goes alooooooooooooong way.

[Walt]

29 minutes ago, williamv said:

If YOU seek out a provider and want to meet them, you should do it on their terms. They ask me for a $100, $250, $500 deposit all of the time. If they have good reviews and they seem accomodating then be willing to send it or don't waste your time. It's a risk,

NO.

29 minutes ago, williamv said:

A little courtesy and human decency goes alooooooooooooong way.

Yes!

[Luv2play]

2 hours ago, Whoisyourdaddy said:

As a client, it's frustrating when I'm in a hotel room, and a provider doesn't show up. It takes time and coordination to get a last-minute room.

I'll never understand why providers won't host in their hotel rooms when they're visiting my city.

Is that always the case? My experience is that visiting providers will always host in their hotel rooms. Why not? That is why they are travelling. 

[Whoisyourdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

Is that always the case? My experience is that visiting providers will always host in their hotel rooms. Why not? That is why they are travelling. 

Hi, Luv2play. A few will host. A majority won't. 

It might have something to do with the kind of guys I pursue (young twink/twunk types).

[Luv2play]

2 hours ago, williamv said:

If YOU seek out a provider and want to meet them, you should do it on their terms. They ask me for a $100, $250, $500 deposit all of the time. If they have good reviews and they seem accomodating then be willing to send it or don't waste your time. It's a risk, I get it. But how you mitigate that risk is by checking reviews and feeling them out a little. They do this for money so if you want all these things for them, you should be willing to do it their way. They don't have to see you. I know from my experiences in talking with providers that the ones that send a deposit no problem usually always have a much better experience. When you make the person you want to hire feel at ease that generally equates to a much better experience for you. Yeah, it's a risk. But so is anything, never been to Atlantic City or Vegas? Never lost $100 in the casino before? It's not that serious. A real provider with good reviews probably won't burn you. If he does then report him. Any one that values their reputation isn't gonna risk it on cheating you out of 50, 60, 100 bucks. 

I can tell from what I've read on this site that some of these guys never book a provider, they're bored at home or just want a way to get off over the phone, or they're window shoppers and bargain hunters. My advice to you (which you won't take) is that quality items have a premium cost. 

You message a guy for his rate and he tells you it's 500 and you try to talk him down to 300 or something and if they do agree to meet with you, they will not have the same enthusiasm as they would if you just paid them their rate. That's a less fulfilling experience for YOU, the client. You shouldn't be reaching out to providers if you don't have the extra money to spend. Imagine you owned a business and people were constantly wasting your time and trying to haggle with you. It would get old, a less patient provider might even develop a bad attitude and resentment towards people who reach out to them.

I get it, everyone wants the highest quality even if their money and respect isn't in alignment. But if you want a good experience, do your research, be respectful and accomodating for the entirety of the interaction and be willing to pay the requested rate. 

A little courtesy and human decency goes alooooooooooooong way.

I notice you joined this forum less than a month ago. That’s great that you want to join the discussions here. I don’t know if you were a lurker before joining but in any case we have a long history of the deposit issue. The general consensus is  not to pay a deposit except in certain limited circumstances such as extended multi day engagements.

I have no idea of what market you hire in but being always asked for deposits in the 200 to 500 $ range as you assert is not the norm in any market I am aware of and over the last 30 years or more I have hired throughout North America and many times in Europe. I have rarely if ever been asked to pay a deposit. I only once paid an airfare for someone from San Francisco to meet me in Montreal. And that worked out fine as we were together for 3 days. 

But then I am a premium client on RM and even before then was always seen as a reliable client by the way I presented myself. I always conduct myself in the same way in other commercial transactions. Being trustworthy engenders trust.