Consumer Push back?

[SirBillybob]

I rarely weigh in on purchase costs so this post is lengthy and I’m likely not influenced by a counter position because my logic is dug in.

I don’t see why there should be a relation between structured posted erotica and session price. Why would one be a lucrative cash calf and the other a lucrative cash cow, in the event of profit differential, simply due to the existence of two products? Why would two cash cows inflate the value and cost of each on its own?

It would be like buying iPhones in a hypothetical situation where Apple gets directly paid to advertise as opposed to marketing costs reflected in purchase price. My big head doesn’t buy into what the little one may recklessly do backflips over. 

We don’t need in advance product user manuals on the simplicity of genitals’ positions in orifices. 

Although 3rd party platform erotica may substantiate an ad’s content and blur out red flags otherwise, it’s a moneymaker not an added ad expense in attracting session biz. The escort role delineation can often be obscure, should that be a provider’s preference.

My two regular meetup guys this year so far are buff OF creators whose presentation got me obsessing about in-person appointments. One a Caribbean nation fellow in Canada, $259 USD equivalency with no upcharge for travel to my hotel; the other a South American in BCN Spain’s Eixample hosting at his very decent lodgings, $162 USD equivalency. There is nothing unique about me in terms of appearance (that they get previewed), no complex negotiating dynamic. The experiences are great, no more or less bespoke in my view than others’ descriptions of other hires, and the price seems commensurate.

I am not aroused or smug by savings because I don’t think I got a special deal. Neither has an overblown name for himself. 

Edited February 21 by SirBillybob

[+ Pensant]

13 hours ago, DrownedBoy said:

Around Chicago at least, demand for hiring seems to have gone down, and rates have remained in the 300/500 1/2 hour range, usually lower.

For the first time since the pandemic,  I've had providers message me on RM without any prompting on my part (I hide my RM browsing history).

So here at least, supply and demand is working properly. 

I’ve seen the same thing: providers reaching out. One asked if I were in “client” mode yet? When I asked who he was he replied “just a rent boy who hasn’t given up on you”.

[PileDriver]

oh brother, lol. just curious about other's experiences. not interested in naming (shaming?) providers. the price jumps are a recent phenomenon. too many seem not incremental. and we are not talking about buying a loaf of bread. the nature of the purchase is a bit different. is it being driven by supply/demand issues? maybe clients are driving up prices? have no idea. the market will decide the price in the end. it always does. 

[marylander1940]

40 minutes ago, PileDriver said:

oh brother, lol. just curious about other's experiences. not interested in naming (shaming?) providers. the price jumps are a recent phenomenon. too many seem not incremental. and we are not talking about buying a loaf of bread. the nature of the purchase is a bit different. is it being driven by supply/demand issues? maybe clients are driving up prices? have no idea. the market will decide the price in the end. it always does. 

Shaming? Asking for $700 or $900 because some are paying that is not shameful, how many escorts wish they could charge as much for an hour. 

I don't think clients are driving up prices. Yes, the market will decide and some guys might lower their rates, get a sugar daddy, move on or do anything else.. 

[maninsoma]

I don't think the problem is that some providers charge too much.  It's easy enough to say "no, thanks" if the price is too high for you and let the man in question get his income from other people.  The biggest problem is the waste of time involved.  When rates were posted with ads, it was easy to weed out people above one's budget without having to contact them first.  It doesn't help that some guys really aren't interested in working as escorts but instead are using Rentmen to drive OF/JFF subscriptions.  Who knew that back in the early 2000s that that would be the golden age for escorts and clients to be able to find one another online with more information available and more websites to use.

[marylander1940]

57 minutes ago, maninsoma said:

I don't think the problem is that some providers charge too much.  It's easy enough to say "no, thanks" if the price is too high for you and let the man in question get his income from other people.  The biggest problem is the waste of time involved.  When rates were posted with ads, it was easy to weed out people above one's budget without having to contact them first.  It doesn't help that some guys really aren't interested in working as escorts but instead are using Rentmen to drive OF/JFF subscriptions.  Who knew that back in the early 2000s that that would be the golden age for escorts and clients to be able to find one another online with more information available and more websites to use.

Not taking this out of subject but it was a golden age for providers because of so little competition compared to nowadays. 

Yes, I also miss Rentboy, unfortunately they went too far and got caught. 

I don't mind sending texts asking: "Hi, nice pictures. How much do you charge for outcalls in the DuPont Circle area?". I don't think that's much of an effort, but I'd rather have the rates available right in the ad like it used to be. 

[+ azdr0710]

4 hours ago, PileDriver said:

 the price jumps are a recent phenomenon

not at all.....the forum has been wringing hands and agonizing about rates since Hooboy days (the early 'aughts)........

I'd like a dime for every time the forum has had to explain Econ 101

 

Edited February 21 by azdr0710

[Your Man in Arlington]

3 hours ago, maninsoma said:

It doesn't help that some guys really aren't interested in working as escorts but instead are using Rentmen to drive OF/JFF subscriptions.

Rather than seeing it as non-escorts (or never-escorts) using RM to promote their fan pages, I'd speculate the fan sites are disrupting the total economy of sex work pulling people from one to one meetings into a safer, less time and work per dollar business model, with a recurring revenue component, as well.

This would lead to higher prices for those that go the creator route (why not charge $1k or more to meet, when its optional income), and likely drive up prices for other sex workers who don't want the exposure or lifestyle that being a creator requires.

Related, I've felt that the quality of commercial porn has deteriorated since the start of the pandemic, which both limited shooting for a while and coincided with rise of fan sites. I figure it's the erosion of the talent pipeline?

[marylander1940]

56 minutes ago, Your Man in Arlington said:

Rather than seeing it as non-escorts (or never-escorts) using RM to promote their fan pages, I'd speculate the fan sites are disrupting the total economy of sex work pulling people from one to one meetings into a safer, less time and work per dollar business model, with a recurring revenue component, as well.

This would lead to higher prices for those that go the creator route (why not charge $1k or more to meet, when its optional income), and likely drive up prices for other sex workers who don't want the exposure or lifestyle that being a creator requires.

Related, I've felt that the quality of commercial porn has deteriorated since the start of the pandemic, which both limited shooting for a while and coincided with rise of fan sites. I figure it's the erosion of the talent pipeline?

Without a doubt!

Austin Wolf was one of my regulars in NYC, he gave up escorting because of OF. He made more money while having fun! He was also tired clients being flaky! 

Edited February 21 by marylander1940

[Simon Suraci]

On 2/21/2024 at 11:29 AM, marylander1940 said:

Without a doubt!

Austin Wolf was one of my regulars in NYC, he gave up escorting because of OF. He made more money while having fun! He was also tired clients being flaky! 

^This, exactly. The phenomenon described here removes a lot of the top talent doing online work from the in-person market. exceptions being the tippy top of the iceberg clients willing to pay $1k/hr etc. vast majority of the market either can’t afford or won’t pay astronomical rates regularly. 

What you have left are the not-so-famous men willing to do in-person work. Those guys are competing for rates in the ballpark of $200-$500 / hr (ish) depending on geography and many other factors.

That gap between 500 and 1000 per hr there is almost no market for because clients willing to pay 3/4/500 can have their pick of the litter among many good options. There is no reason to pay $700/ hr. for someone who will make you just as happy as another charging $400/hr. But you might pay $1k+/hr for a once or twice in a lifetime blowout experience with a well known, highly in demand porn/fans star. That gap keeps rates in check. Sure you will have the odd demand for $700/hr fishing for who bites, but almost nobody who isn’t already in the $1k/hr category is making a living doing regular in person work full time for that “gap” rate.

[rvwnsd]

Like @SirBillybob, I rarely weigh in on the pricing debate because I know what I am willing to pay and when a guy quotes a higher rate, I politely decline without being outraged by the guy's rate. I don't see that as pushing back, much like deciding not to eat at a restaurant whose prices are outside my budget is not pushing back. 

That said, I don't let a provider's OF status influence my decision to accept/decline a rate that's over my threshold. Firstly, not every provider who says they are in the top 1%, 0.0625%, or whatever can possibly be at that level. The math just doesn't work. Secondly, I don't find most providers' content to be particularly interesting, so I'm not really looking for the scene they enact in their vids. Thirdly, (and I've said this many, many, many times before) some of my most lackluster hires were guys who were acclaimed, vaunted, and beloved by Forum members and popular among the porn-watching public. 

I guess the summary is "If you don't like the rate, take a pass." When enough prospective clients do this, rates will come down.

[+ glutes]

I don't find a $600+ / hour provider a good value.

And I have the money.

[viewing ownly]

The higher the rate asked, the higher likelihood of higher class clientele to be seen by. Makes sense to me. Also, the lower the rate, coupled with the honesty of being around for a good long while, enable the provider to have the "gig" be the "job". Fly-by-night guys asking insane rates aren't to be taken seriously, as they're rarely taken.

 

 

[SirBillybob]

On 2/21/2024 at 12:55 PM, azdr0710 said:

not at all.....the forum has been wringing hands and agonizing about rates since Hooboy days (the early 'aughts)........

I'd like a dime for every time the forum has had to explain Econ 101

 

But where’s the 3rd variable, ie, the diva gradient, on the Econ 269 credit course PowerPoint chart? I’ll give you a nickel for now.😉

Edited February 23 by SirBillybob

[marylander1940]

10 hours ago, viewing ownly said:

The higher the rate asked, the higher likelihood of higher class clientele to be seen by. Makes sense to me. Also, the lower the rate, coupled with the honesty of being around for a good long while, enable the provider to have the "gig" be the "job". Fly-by-night guys asking insane rates aren't to be taken seriously, as they're rarely taken.

 

 

Agreed!

Some clients want the illusion of exclusively and they would rather hire someone who only has a client per week.

[marylander1940]

12 hours ago, glutes said:

I don't find a $600+ / hour provider a good value.

And I have the money.

If you "have the money" would you ever consider a keptman /sugar boy kind of situation? Something like "seeking arrangement"?

[+ DrownedBoy]

17 hours ago, viewing ownly said:

. Fly-by-night guys asking insane rates aren't to be taken seriously, as they're rarely taken.

This. A lot of guys who charge outrageous rates, for whatever reason, never keep their RM ad up more than a month. That's supply and demand too.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

On 2/20/2024 at 1:26 PM, BonVivant said:

One more thought: there are lots of providers who have only gone up a little (like $50) or not at all. So those asking for double the going  rate or more, better have a market differentiator; and better be very compelling.

That’s the level I’m at currently. I used to charge between 150-200-250 but now I’m at 200-250-300, although I want to push to 250-300-350 (I offer tier level sessions).

However, instead of chasing the price increase rat 🐀 race, I’m just offering add ons like 75 min, 90 min, Two Hours. At the end of the day, I’m still getting 250-500 for most appointments. Problem is, the bookings are fewer now even before the rate went up…so I’ve had to in turn, make sure I’m asking more.

One semi-regular I was seeing dropped me last year because I wouldn’t see him for $200. But I told him: you can’t just meet once every 6 months and expect a discount. I have to remind people this all the time. Stop popping up out the blue expecting me to charge the same rates as 2022 ✋🏾 

On 2/20/2024 at 4:19 PM, marylander1940 said:

I know a local escort who asked $300 for incalls in Minneapolis, some clients consented but he also had a lot of cancellations. 

He told me: "from now on 300 in call in DC and San Francisco, everywhere else in the middle of the country is 260". 

Well, I’ve noticed with Minneapolis in general: I’ve been trying to plan trips there lately and I keep having to not go myself because the level of commitment seems low there. I used to do well there but lately I haven’t been able to get enough serious clients and most seem scared to send a deposit (which I’m going to address more below). 
 

On 2/20/2024 at 4:22 PM, DrownedBoy said:

Around Chicago at least, demand for hiring seems to have gone down, and rates have remained in the 300/500 1/2 hour range, usually lower.

For the first time since the pandemic,  I've had providers message me on RM without any prompting on my part (I hide my RM browsing history).

So here at least, supply and demand is working properly. 

That’s because as I’ve said throughout the forum: business is slow. Especially in cities like Chicago because so many guys are posting on there. The big cities now are just chock full of ads, and now it’s anybody’s guess who’s a real client anymore. It used to be guys would contact and book. Now, every inquiry is a time waster (at least from my observations and experiences).

I sent RentMen FOUR (4) emails today basically roasting them over hot coals letting them know I’m sick and tired of having to micromanage clients from the site. Lately it’s become like a Grindr: people are hitting me up not talking about money at all, being unresponsive in communications, just basically being a big time waste. They’re doing minimal effort and collecting our money, while we have to do all the legwork to deal with the nonsense everyday. 
 

I just came back from Nashville and I have about 10-15 texts over a 1 week period of people contacting. Only 1 client managed to book out of all those. 
 

I have suggested solutions to them before and they refuse to take it. I deal with far less Timewasters on my own website than RentMen. When people go to my site, they know I mean business and I’m talking about money on every page. I feel RentMen is making it optional, and guys are getting away with wasting our time for free. I’m nipping that shit in the bud immediately. No phone numbers are going up, every communication is going to be automated and making them agree to my terms before any engagement occurs.

 

On 2/21/2024 at 8:55 AM, maninsoma said:

I don't think the problem is that some providers charge too much.  It's easy enough to say "no, thanks" if the price is too high for you and let the man in question get his income from other people.  The biggest problem is the waste of time involved.  When rates were posted with ads, it was easy to weed out people above one's budget without having to contact them first.  It doesn't help that some guys really aren't interested in working as escorts but instead are using Rentmen to drive OF/JFF subscriptions.  Who knew that back in the early 2000s that that would be the golden age for escorts and clients to be able to find one another online with more information available and more websites to use.

See above response. I’ve told RentMen they need to bring rates back. It’s become a Grindr and the pay seems optional. 

 

[Decatur Guy]

The bottom line is the bottom line. And mine is provider rate increases have been far outstripping my income increases. In fact, I make less now than 10 years ago, not more. The math is simply starting to collapse.

I'm probably looking at a big readjustment of my entertainment budget this year and will simply have to indulge my passions far less frequently or renew my efforts at making connections where no money changes hands. This hobby is a luxury I am increasingly unable to afford, especially at the frequency I've previously enjoyed. 

Edited February 28 by Decatur Guy

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

12 hours ago, Decatur Guy said:

This hobby is a luxury 

And this is something a lot of guys here forget or don't consider.

Edited February 28 by BenjaminNicholas

[Milo Janus]

When I have hired out recently, I simply asked, "How does X amount sound for a blow job?"  They either take it or leave it.