Sensitive topic - race and rates

[Danny-Darko]

On 4/5/2023 at 9:02 PM, DrownedBoy said:

I have a question that I really need to ask providers.

Is their an informal "tier" of different rates in the U.S. due to race? And how open are people in discussing that?

I ask because I've read comments here about Caucasians making more than minorities. Likewise, I had an Asian provider flat out say that as an Asian, he makes much less than other providers.

I'm not calling anyone racist for their preferences when hiring. I'm just curious, as the vast majority of my partners (hires or dating) aren't Caucasian.

I wouldn't say that. I've seen how Hispanics and other Latins like Brazilians have flooded the market in most US, Canada and Europe and they charge the same high prices as the others! They are in demand so I can't agree with the generalization of "minorities". In California I saw in my 15+ years of living there Asians very much in demand and charging same as everybody else. In Florida, Latins from all over and Jamaicans and Haitians seem to be in demand and their prices aren't cheap either!    

[Danny-Darko]

On 4/6/2023 at 12:06 PM, José Soplanucas said:

People of Color have to work harder and for less money than their White brothers and sisters in most professions, not only in escorting. 

The stereotype of the minorities/coloreds/blacks/women/etc... working harder for less money is an erroneous one spread from different eras of past history and from certain select high level professions where it can and probably has happened. In my lifetime, never have I worked in any job anywhere where anybody of any race or color or sex was offered a different salary than I or whites! Similar jobs got paid exactly the same to all who did it in the same capacity. On the contrary, I've seen and has also happened to me in the past several decades where "they" got promoted or hired over "us" being less qualified, experiences, educated and given jobs and tasked way above their qualifications. Minority new-hires and just out of school while not considering those already in the company and field! We all know why and no reason to get into political discussions nor being about how to right the wrongs of history none of us had anything to do with. Outside of escorting which I have never seen myself and I'm not saying it hasn't happed (I've lived in many different places and been hiring since I tuned 19yo), it is illegal to pay somebody a lower salary for same job because of race. Companies and businesses would be sued all the time for type these behaviors. Sorry but I can't agree with you on this. If I'd seen it anywhere I certainly would say so and been in agreement with those of you that make these claims. Stereotypes and reputations die hard and don't change easily because the myths are so perpetuated. And of course, are those that use them to their advantage and/or to promote and agenda. Sensitive topic I know but every coin has its flip side. 

[Danny-Darko]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:41 PM, José Soplanucas said:

What about Philipinos, Eskimos, Native American Indian ethnicities, Polynesians, (keep filling in your forgotten ethnicities)

Polynesians refer themselves as Pacific Islanders in profiles and I have seen few, though several Hawaiians. I've found Filipinos are considering themselves Asian and almost all Native Americans are really not! Some foreigners think the term refers to those "born and raised in America" so add it to their profiles, LOL. Some have added it to their profile because they know of some Native American ancestry in their blood especially in our southern states. I've seen a few Latin American state Native American (and rightly so) because of their indigenous roots from their country which is in The Americas. I honestly wish there would be more Native American male escorts!! I have been lucky enough to have been with several, 3 full-blooded from the USA (and not for pay either) and a few from Canada (for pay) and they have ROCKED MY WORLD each and every one!! The BEST sex I've ever had! 

[Danny-Darko]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:59 PM, José Soplanucas said:

Agreed, they can be stupid and not racist!

Or simply not have that ugly chip on their shoulders and not paying attention to other problems! Life is hard for everybody, and yes some more that others and this has nothing to do with race. People in general go about their lives. Should we think about others more? Yes of course we all should! And not just white or born Americans thinking about minorities, but EVERYBODY should! People these days are so concerned about how those considered "non-minorities" (yes some of us are and don't flaunt it) behave. Yet I've yet to see people of ANY minority concerned about the plight and welfare of any other minority group other than their own and those they identify with for identity or solidarity purposes. So why are all other so bad? How often have we seen Blacks fight for the rights of Asians or Hispanics or immigrants and other way around any other combination you like? I remember in California, Mexican immigrants complaining to me about other Hispanic immigrants saying they should "go home" because they were taking their job opportunities away. I had a Filipina coworker in Florida trash the Mexicans and Hispanics and thought herself above the lowly Latinos even though she herself was a country girl from the provinces and an immigrant herself! People in general look after their own, family, then community and maybe some look beyond. For the most part everybody does the same. Think about it before vilifying those that don't sympathize with you!  

[Danny-Darko]

6 hours ago, TonyDown said:

I book 2 or 3 massages a month.

 

I made a list with ethnicity of each provider (black, asian, Pashtun, Persian, Morrocan, latino, white, etc) then checked the current rate for all of these providers I've booked over the last several years.

The highest 3 rates are for 2 asian guys and one black guy.   All three are younger, masculine guys with very nice physiques, nice smile and so on.    That alone will probably trigger some of you, but it is what it is.  We like what we like.

So there could be other factors besides race that determine different tiers of pricing. 

Looking at the lowest rates from my list, most tend to be older providers.  That said, many of us know some awesome choices that are older 

I remember moving to Cali years ago and  seeing all these cute Asian guys.  An Asian friend pulled me aside and explained how some of these Asian guys I was noticing, prefer to date other Asian guys.  Yeah, I wished it wasn't true but that's life.  

Back to the OP, I do not doubt that providers have to deal with racism.  When I read in this thread about racism and about clients that want to haggle on price, I am reminded how important to treat providers with the utmost respect.

 

THANK YOU!!! See, stereotypes and myths die hard. Everybody has their tastes! In my current state a Haitian that identifies as a Top and bi/straight has a higher asking price and are much in demand than the pushing 30 white gay versatile man escorting. Who's are the racist and who's the underpaid escort???  

[+ DrownedBoy]

@Danny-Darko , that was very funny. Your impression of a racist moron was spot on, and I'm sure we've all heard such nitwits use the exact phrases you poke fun of here.

As OP, I should clarify that I can't see any change in this behavior - I have no illusions about human nature. 5 minutes on Grindr shows that. @DWnyc I know you don't agree with the phrase "that’s the way it is," but there's sharp limits on what anyone here can do.

[musclestuduws]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:59 PM, José Soplanucas said:

Agreed, they can be stupid and not racist!

Although one might say that all forms of racism are ultimately a sign of human stupidity. I’ve never met a truly intelligent, worldly person who was racist. 

[TonyDown]

5 hours ago, DWnyc said:

(Btw I’m super impressed you found a Pashtun) 

It’s a combo of factors;, race isnt the only one but it could be significant, all else being equal. 

I recall an obnoxious post on Grindr on the lines of “if you’re above 40 or ethnic you better be hot or have a big dick”.

He was going home for a visit and the conversation revealed he was Pashtun.  Handsome!

[Danny-Darko]

59 minutes ago, musclestuduws said:

Although one might say that all forms of racism are ultimately a sign of human stupidity. I’ve never met a truly intelligent, worldly person who was racist. 

I dare say you haven't then travelled much nor moved in very many upper circles then. Racism and discrimination is something everybody to some or another degree have and nobody nor any culture is immune. I personally have experienced the most and worst discrimination AND racism in my life precisely from others or should I say certain "minority groups" that scream bloody racism! Racism, prejudice and discrimination happen to many. We move on as best we can.  

Edited April 9, 2023 by Danny-Darko
Clarified sentence meaning.

[+ José Soplanucas]

2 hours ago, Danny-Darko said:

The stereotype of the minorities/coloreds/blacks/women/etc... working harder for less money is an erroneous one spread from different eras of past history and from certain select high level professions where it can and probably has happened. In my lifetime, never have I worked in any job anywhere where anybody of any race or color or sex was offered a different salary than I or whites! Similar jobs got paid exactly the same to all who did it in the same capacity. On the contrary, I've seen and has also happened to me in the past several decades where "they" got promoted or hired over "us" being less qualified, experiences, educated and given jobs and tasked way above their qualifications. Minority new-hires and just out of school while not considering those already in the company and field! We all know why and no reason to get into political discussions nor being about how to right the wrongs of history none of us had anything to do with. Outside of escorting which I have never seen myself and I'm not saying it hasn't happed (I've lived in many different places and been hiring since I tuned 19yo), it is illegal to pay somebody a lower salary for same job because of race. Companies and businesses would be sued all the time for type these behaviors. Sorry but I can't agree with you on this. If I'd seen it anywhere I certainly would say so and been in agreement with those of you that make these claims. Stereotypes and reputations die hard and don't change easily because the myths are so perpetuated. And of course, are those that use them to their advantage and/or to promote and agenda. Sensitive topic I know but every coin has its flip side. 

Bull shit.

/econres/notes/Social_Default_Image.jpg

The Fed - Wealth Inequality and the Racial Wealth Gap

WWW.FEDERALRESERVE.GOV

---

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington DC.

 

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

7 minutes ago, Danny-Darko said:

I dare say you haven't then travelled much nor moved in very many upper circles then. Racism and discrimination is something everybody to some or another degree have and nobody nor any culture is immune. I personally have experienced the most and worst discrimination AND racism in my life precisely from others or should I say certain "minority groups" that scream bloody racism! Racism, prejudice and discrimination happen to many. We move on as best we can.  

Would you mind sharing what your ethnicity is, and an example of when you were a victim of racism?

[Danny-Darko]

28 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

Would you mind sharing what your ethnicity is, and an example of when you were a victim of racism?

Because it NONE of your business and you are NOBODY to judge if I deserve or not the same victimhood status you demand! And which I have never claimed either! Not all wear their problems of life on their shoulder and boohoo about them to all who will or won't listen! I've found interesting that of all the people claiming racism that aren't indigenous to our country, NONE seem to have considered moving somewhere where they aren't minorities, discriminated against or get paid less for harder work. Not that they should by any means, but it is food for thought.  Among their own they have nothing to worry and complain about, right? 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Danny-Darko
Typo

[Marc in Calif]

3 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Just for the record ...although I rarely hire escorts...

😴😴😴

Edited April 9, 2023 by Marc in Calif

[musclestuduws]

11 hours ago, Danny-Darko said:

I dare say you haven't then travelled much nor moved in very many upper circles then. Racism and discrimination is something everybody to some or another degree have and nobody nor any culture is immune. I personally have experienced the most and worst discrimination AND racism in my life precisely from others or should I say certain "minority groups" that scream bloody racism! Racism, prejudice and discrimination happen to many. We move on as best we can.  

You entirely miss my point. You’re equating intelligence with race and “upper circles.” Truly smart people have nothing to do with “upper circles” or with belonging to a “minority” themselves. Truly smart people are found in any social class, circles, and ethnicity. Some of the smartest people I’ve met only went to elementary school. Some of the most racist people I met consider themselves “minorities” with top universities education, even though they surely benefited from the many privileges they enjoy as WASPS.  Deep intelligence and worldliness have little to do with upper circles or labels. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by musclestuduws
Clarification.

[jt30331]

3 hours ago, Danny-Darko said:

The stereotype of the minorities/coloreds/blacks/women/etc... working harder for less money is an erroneous one spread from different eras of past history and from certain select high level professions where it can and probably has happened. In my lifetime, never have I worked in any job anywhere where anybody of any race or color or sex was offered a different salary than I or whites! Similar jobs got paid exactly the same to all who did it in the same capacity. On the contrary, I've seen and has also happened to me in the past several decades where "they" got promoted or hired over "us" being less qualified, experiences, educated and given jobs and tasked way above their qualifications. Minority new-hires and just out of school while not considering those already in the company and field! We all know why and no reason to get into political discussions nor being about how to right the wrongs of history none of us had anything to do with. Outside of escorting which I have never seen myself and I'm not saying it hasn't happed (I've lived in many different places and been hiring since I tuned 19yo),

Quote

it is illegal to pay somebody a lower salary for same job because of race. Companies and businesses would be sued all the time for type these behaviors.

Sorry but I can't agree with you on this. If I'd seen it anywhere I certainly would say so and been in agreement with those of you that make these claims. Stereotypes and reputations die hard and don't change easily because the myths are so perpetuated. And of course, are those that use them to their advantage and/or to promote and agenda. Sensitive topic I know but every coin has its flip side. 

You sound like you're on drugs.  There's so much wrong with your ramblings that I won't endeavor to speak to everything now.  I'd be typing all night.  However, I'll start here: 

Quote

The stereotype of the minorities/coloreds/blacks/women/etc... working harder for less money is an erroneous one spread from different eras of past history and from certain select high level professions where it can and probably has happened.

Clearly, you are ignorant to many things associated with this topic, including decades of research, legal actions, and news reports that immediately speak to the disparities that POC face within the workplace; and it gets even worse when you break it down by race and gender.  Stop talking out of your ass, please.  It's insulting to the intelligence of everyone reading your bullshit.  It's clear that you know this because you didn't bother once trying to include anything beyond your own ramblings to support your weak ass claim (i.e. statistics, research, etc.). 

Quote

In my lifetime, never have I worked in any job anywhere where anybody of any race or color or sex was offered a different salary than I or whites!

Again, another bullshit ass claim.  You haven't been in a position to know the salaries of everyone with whom you've worked alongside since you've been in the world of work and career.  Therefore, it is an absolute impossibility for you to say that NONE, not one, of your colleagues was paid less due to their race and/or sex.  

Quote

I've seen and has also happened to me in the past several decades where "they" got promoted or hired over "us" being less qualified, experiences, educated and given jobs and tasked way above their qualifications.

Given your extreme stupidity, and your willingness to share and display it publicly, it is no wonder that "they" have been passed over your ignorant ass.  I suspect IQ had much more to do with this than race.  

 

 

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

8 hours ago, Danny-Darko said:

Because it NONE of your business and you are NOBODY to judge if I deserve or not the same victimhood status you demand! And which I have never claimed either! Not all wear their problems of life on their shoulder and boohoo about them to all who will or won't listen! I've found interesting that of all the people claiming racism that aren't indigenous to our country, NONE seem to have considered moving somewhere where they aren't minorities, discriminated against or get paid less for harder work. Not that they should by any means, but it is food for thought.  Among their own they have nothing to worry and complain about, right? 

The crystal ball tells me she is a White victim of racism.

[+ José Soplanucas]

7 hours ago, jt30331 said:

Given your extreme stupidity,

I would say extremely passionate stupidity. His White God bless him.

[+ José Soplanucas]

On 4/7/2023 at 12:18 PM, Shawn Monroe said:

A lot of these comments are reminding me why i stopped coming in here as much. 

Please, stay and fight.

[Cooper]

Administrator’s Message

Gentlemen, Let’s stop with the personal attacks and remain on topic. All unrelated replies will be removed. 

[+ Lucky]

9 hours ago, jt30331 said:

You sound like you're on drugs.  There's so much wrong with your ramblings that I won't endeavor to speak to everything now.  I'd be typing all night.  However, I'll start here: 

Clearly, you are ignorant to many things associated with this topic, including decades of research, legal actions, and news reports that immediately speak to the disparities that POC face within the workplace; and it gets even worse when you break it down by race and gender.  Stop talking out of your ass, please.  It's insulting to the intelligence of everyone reading your bullshit.  It's clear that you know this because you didn't bother once trying to include anything beyond your own ramblings to support your weak ass claim (i.e. statistics, research, etc.). 

Again, another bullshit ass claim.  You haven't been in a position to know the salaries of everyone with whom you've worked alongside since you've been in the world of work and career.  Therefore, it is an absolute impossibility for you to say that NONE, not one, of your colleagues was paid less due to their race and/or sex.  

Given your extreme stupidity, and your willingness to share and display it publicly, it is no wonder that "they" have been passed over your ignorant ass.  I suspect IQ had much more to do with this than race.  

 

 

 

Why use this color for your post? I skipped it.

[pubic_assistance]

19 minutes ago, Lucky said:

 I skipped it.

Wise choice.

[+ José Soplanucas]

23 minutes ago, Lucky said:

Why use this color for your post? I skipped it.

He may be using the dark mode. Yellow characters over a dark background are easy to read.

[+ Lucky]

7 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

He may be using the dark mode. Yellow characters over a dark background are easy to read.

Not for me.

(BTW_ Aren't you supposed to be having fun in Rio right now?)

[+ jessmapex]

21 hours ago, DWnyc said:

Serious question. If you have rejected on race, why is it hurtful to face the same treatment? I understand being rejected is never fun, but aren’t you being played by your own rules?  

Yes, I am, that's why I said I don't blame anyone.  But it hurts more when you get shot vs when you shoot someone. That's all I meant to say there.

[+ DrownedBoy]

On 4/6/2023 at 12:04 PM, LostUpstate said:

I’m surprised, I would expect to pay the same rate regardless of race. 

You shouldn't.  At least not according to what I've seen.

I won't give exact numbers and names, but it seems like there's an unspoken racial hierarchy. Casually, I'd say, from highest to lowest:

1. Caucasian and light skinned Latino

2. Black and dark skinned Latno

3. Asian

Obviously, there are many other races and factors that go into it (muscle, looks, skills, personality). But I'd challenge anyone to say that Asian men are treated nicely on Grindr. Likewise, from conversations with providers, this seems to be how it is in the Midwest (California and New York are foreign countries to me).

In case anyone thinks I'm trying to start a fight,  I will give another confession from my past. Every high school has a pecking order, and I remember the racial order at mine was:

 

1. Northern European/Asian (there were very few of the last, but they tended to attend honors courses)

2. Chicago ethics (Italian , Irish, etc.).

3. Latinos / Black (again, very few of the latter)

4. Recent Eastern European immigrants 

 

Again, there are exceptions (I fell into #2 but attended honors courses). But there it was. Italians and Mexicans were always getting into fights. Mexicans would cruelly administer "citizenship tests" to newly arrived Polish kids. A black guy got beaten up for dating a white girl from my own neighborhood. The Latin Kings were still a concern (this was pre-00s).

 

Unfortunately,  it seems few people grew out of their high school mindsets. That transcends gender or sexuality. But I'd like to know who else sees these patterns.