Have you ever refused to pay?

[pubic_assistance]

When you go to a restaurant and the food sucks do you eat and refuse to pay ?

 

[tenderloin]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

When you go to a restaurant and the food sucks do you eat and refuse to pay ?

 

If the food brought to the table wasn't what I ordered, or they tried to rush me out before dessert, I would certainly reduce the check. 

[+ Charlie]

The only time I can remember was an appointment at a provider's apartment. He seemed rather tired when I arrived, and he suggested that we start with me giving him a blow job. I was doing my best to get him aroused, when I heard a light snore and looked up to see his eyes closed and his mouth open. So I stopped, quietly got dressed, then shook him awake, and told him I was leaving. He just gave me a sheepish look, but didn't object, as I walked out the door.

[former lurker]

10 hours ago, tenderloin said:

If the food brought to the table wasn't what I ordered, or they tried to rush me out before dessert, I would certainly reduce the check. 

If the meal is not what you ordered, request the one you did.  As for rushing you, it's rude to occupy a table for a lengthy post-meal hangout without ordering.  If you need a lengthy post-feeding digestive period to be able to have dessert, that's on you.  If such is the case, either forgo dessert or find a way to compensate for tying up the table. 

The point here is you can't have your cake intact and eat it too.  If you eat the meal, you owe what it costs.

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, former lurker said:

The point here is you can't have your cake intact and eat it too.  If you eat the meal, you owe what it costs.

That's my point

I've eaten in restaurants where I was very displeased with the food or the service but it never occurred to me to just walk out and not pay. I just don't repeat. Same goes with male personal service  providers. My expectations aren't always going to be satisfied. I don't blame the provider. Everyone has their own business model. Some work for repeat customers and some just go from random to random. Others are just clueless

[Wolfer]

7 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

That's my point

I've eaten in restaurants where I was very displeased with the food or the service but it never occurred to me to just walk out and not pay. I just don't repeat. Same goes with male personal service  providers. My expectations aren't always going to be satisfied. I don't blame the provider. Everyone has their own business model. Some work for repeat customers and some just go from random to random. Others are just clueless

Okay but let's say your order steak with fries and they bring you mussels with Brussels sprouts. I certainly would talk to the waiter and ask for the correct order. If the waiter would then inform me that it's impossible for them to make the food I ordered, I would leave without paying.

I've never refused to pay a provider, even though I do think a client is within his rights when the provider has grossly misrepresented himself and his services. 

8 hours ago, former lurker said:

 As for rushing you, it's rude to occupy a table for a lengthy post-meal hangout without ordering.  

I would rather compare it to me having reserved the table for two hours and a four course dinner and the manager then saying after 1 hour and 2 courses that my time is up and need to leave but still expect me to pay for the full 4 courses. 

[former lurker]

10 hours ago, Wolfer said:

Okay but let's say your order steak with fries and they bring you mussels with Brussels sprouts. I certainly would talk to the waiter and ask for the correct order. If the waiter would then inform me that it's impossible for them to make the food I ordered, I would leave without paying.

I've never refused to pay a provider, even though I do think a client is within his rights when the provider has grossly misrepresented himself and his services. 

I would rather compare it to me having reserved the table for two hours and a four course dinner and the manager then saying after 1 hour and 2 courses that my time is up and need to leave but still expect me to pay for the full 4 courses. 

That doesn't really fit any scenario I've seen discussed.  As for your earlier point, I'm still not sure you're addressing the point raised by Public Assistance.  If you order steak and fries -- the mussels add nothing to the hypo -- and they inform you they ran out, you can either order something else or leave.  Of course, the scenario is trickier if you ask for delivery and give a general idea of what you want.  In any event, if you ordered the steak, got something else and ate it, it'd be unreasonable for you to dine and dash just because you really wanted a steak.

[IamAdamRose]

This is why I always collect payment before anything goes down, & if its a long distance drive i get a deposit upfront, I’ll be goddamned if I let a client stiff me

[+ MakeMeCowboy]

18 hours ago, former lurker said:

I've never refused to pay a provider, even though I do think a client is within his rights when the provider has grossly misrepresented himself and his services. 

For me, this speaks to the core issue. Liars are hustlers and I don't hire hustlers. From now on I will ask the provider to agree that if he doesn't look like his photos, I get to walk away without paying. In the past, I've paid and walked away. Hustlers are trouble and I don't need that problem lurking.  

[TorontoDrew]

I made a 2 hour appointment with a news provider.  I knocked on the door and he didn't answer.  I should have taken that as my cue to leave but I was horny.

I waited around for 20 minutes calling him (I'm aware that was a mistake).  He finally answered and he had overslept.  He had a quick shower and let me in.

He rented a room in a house so I was a bit uncomfortable.  Yes, another red flag.  He then proceeded to tell me that we couldn't use the bed as it would collapse. 

We blew each other and I rimmed him.  It was over in 40 minutes.  I paid for one hour and not two with no argument from him.

Moral of the story, it shouldn't matter how horny you are, if the red flags start to fly you leave.

He did look like his pics and was muscular and handsome.  I noticed his ad is gone now.

[coriolis888]

2 hours ago, MakeMeCowboy said:

For me, this speaks to the core issue. Liars are hustlers and I don't hire hustlers. From now on I will ask the provider to agree that if he doesn't look like his photos, I get to walk away without paying. In the past, I've paid and walked away. Hustlers are trouble and I don't need that problem lurking.  

I am not so harsh with providers when contracting and I do not refer to them as "hustlers".

It is possible that a provider does not feel he is deceiving a client by using old photos or less weight or age for his advertisement!  The provider might believe he still looks as he did several years ago.  

Many years ago a famous writer named Robert Burns wrote a poem that is appropriate to this situation, even after all these years since the poem was written. 

The poem cleverly describes how a person could see themselves as they want to be seen rather than how the person is actually perceived by others.    

The original writing (many years back and in old Scottish English) was: 

 "O wad some Power the giftie gie us / To see oursels as ithers see us!"
 

Basically, most people do not see themselves as others see them.  It is a form of "denial" of how we perceive ourselves.    

With respect to hiring from rentmen advertisements, unless the photos are clearly of another person (other than of the provider) I do not fault the provider if he does not meet all of the good looks that are shown in the photos of the advertisement of the provider.

To make it easier to understand, it is a gift to see ourselves as others see us.  However, many of us lack that gift.    

If anyone is interested in reading the original poem by Robert Burns here it is:

 

"To a Louse" - A poem by Robert Burns:

As Burns concludes, "Oh wad some power the giftie gie us / To see oursels as 

ithers see us!"  Such a power or ability would save us a lot of bother and foolish

notions; but we cannot see ourselves as others see us. - - -- "

 

 

[Guest]

On 3/16/2023 at 1:50 PM, Archbishop said:

I’ve only ever had providers ask to be paid upfront, never at the end. I’ve never had an issue, so I have assumed it is the norm. What is the norm for providers asking for payment… at the start or finish?

The times when I cancel without paying are (1) fraudulent photos (either someone else's or photos which are clearly over 3 years old), or (2) asking for payment up-front. I got burned with up-front payment requests, and it's never turned out well for me. That being said, the few escorts who ask for upfront payments usually do so before meeting. Big red flag (like not answering a text for over 3 hours). 

[Guest]

On 3/19/2023 at 8:20 AM, pubic_assistance said:

When you go to a restaurant and the food sucks do you eat and refuse to pay ?

 

It's either refuse to eat & pay, or eat and pay. If the food's just OK, I'll eat, pay, and not come back. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Unicorn

[Guest]

On 3/17/2023 at 6:09 AM, Jamie21 said:

... I finished him off ...
 

[Guest]

On 3/21/2023 at 6:19 PM, coriolis888 said:

I am not so harsh with providers when contracting and I do not refer to them as "hustlers".

It is possible that a provider does not feel he is deceiving a client by using old photos or less weight or age for his advertisement! ...

Sorry, but providers know how old they are and how much they weight. If they feel they look younger than their age or that their weight doesn't show, they can certainly submit recent photos and let the customer decide. Posting fake ages and weights constitutes fraud. In any other business, a deceived customer could receive compensation for the fraudulent act, and possibly punitive damages. Whatever delusions the provider has in his mind are irrelevant. I've definitely turned tail when ads have provided false information. 

[SirBillybob]

I have hired from ads about 3 times in the past 10 years, having moved on to curated settings where the checks and balances offset the possibility of hesitancy about paying up, and where baseline prices are low and tips are incentivizing and similarly very financially manageable. Two of these ad hires were very recent. One extremely embarrassing because I mistakenly underpaid  (less familiar currency) and later he simply texted me afterwards. He was absolutely correct and just indicated he was disappointed, but was not accusatory. Naturally I swung by, not at all convenient due to my itinerary, to deliver the balance and a substantial extra gratuity. Apart from feeling mortified I wanted to stay in his good books. I did not subsequently suggest he should have counted the currency at the time, the dynamic being one of mutual trust. The fee was absurdly low relatively speaking and I had beat off to his Twitter feed for free several times for a few years even before knowing face-to-face would eventually transpire. 

Checking off Bucket-list guys from afar, trekking to them, can be extremely impractical to operationalize and one wants to blow it not blow it. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by SirBillybob

[SirBillybob]

59 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Sorry, but providers know how old they are and how much they weight. If they feel they look younger than their age or that their weight doesn't show, they can certainly submit recent photos and let the customer decide. Posting fake ages and weights constitutes fraud. In any other business, a deceived customer could receive compensation for the fraudulent act, and possibly punitive damages. Whatever delusions the provider has in his mind are irrelevant. I've definitely turned tail when ads have provided false information. 

Right, I wouldn’t conflate an image portfolio representing how one wished to appear with that of one’s internal perceptual distortion of one’s objective appearance. I want them to be able to distinguish a condom from a sandwich baggie, a tenofovir-emtricitabine tablet from a lozenge, my pie-hole from my arse.

Some guys look better than their pics; the theory doesn’t hold if it’s universal, as a gradient of self-delusion doesn’t easily fit it. Who wants to have to drill down to assess the disparity between a provider’s images and his wishfulness, followed by quantifying the degree of license afforded to him?

Edited March 27, 2023 by SirBillybob

[Lookin]

On 3/16/2023 at 2:49 PM, GTMike said:

Another time I had a gent who after brief appropriate small talk couldn't help himself talking about people he met through parties and work and he was naming names. I live in LA and he was name dropping known gay celebs and it wasn't scandalous like outing or saying bad stuff about them . . . but he was gossipy.

I don't suppose you still have his number. 

[Bargara Leatherboy]

I have paid upfront a couple of hot gentleman, but they have always said on their websites and adds and in their convos with me that they request the fee upfront.  

Both times it worked out.  One I saw many times and he still wanted the $$ upfront - shame as I would have tipped him after almost all of our session. he was hot and the sessions we had were even hotter 

However I prefer to pay at the end of the session.

 

 

[+ Coolwave35]

I hosted a house party for 5 providers in the Hollywood hills two years ago. The requests were simple. Be verse. No drugs. Don’t get shitfaced. Be on time Friday anfternoon and expect to stay through Sunday. 
 

4 guys arrived sober at 5 pm on Friday night. 
 

The 5th guy was a Tik tok star not doing the OF thing at that point. It took a lot of work to get his representatives to agree to let him participate as this was his first gay for serious pay offer he had taken.  He was flown in from Texas the day before.  After allegedly not responding to any communication from his handler, he shows up at the front door of the house at 9:45pm. He is stumbling drunk, and high. He fell off the front step and rolled down the hill in the front yard. He climbed back up to the door and I told him that he wasn’t honoring what he committed to, and that the dynamic had already formed between myself and the other 4 guys that were there to make money. I gave him a $1,500.00 show up fee, wished him well and sent him on his way. The camera man was pissed but it felt like the right thing to do.
 

 

[Daniel84]

On 3/16/2023 at 4:50 PM, Archbishop said:

I’ve only ever had providers ask to be paid upfront, never at the end. I’ve never had an issue, so I have assumed it is the norm. What is the norm for providers asking for payment… at the start or finish?

I require my clients to pay upfront if they are partying. I don't partake in any of that ( seen 1 friend lose everything in 6 months. Not fucking worth it) 

I had a client that booked me for 2 hours after the session we go to the bank that was in a mall. He brought me to a public place to tell me he doesn't have any money and he's not paying me. He said " I wanted to have a great time which I did but I have no money to pay you, I brought you here so you can't make a scene" 

Ever since then if it's a new client which booked multiple hours they have to pay by the hour for every hour that passes. 

[Jamie21]

1 hour ago, Daniel84 said:

Ever since then if it's a new client which booked multiple hours they have to pay by the hour for every hour that passes. 

Does that mean after an hour they pay, then after another hour they pay again etc for however many hours the session lasts? I’m intrigued…is there a bell or something sounding after an hour? What if at that point your cock is in him? Do you pull out and sort the money then stick it back in once the fee is done? It’s like there’s a card reader in your ass crack the client has to swipe his card through whenever you stop pumping. “Ugh he’s stopped and I’m at my limit on the Visa, I wonder if he takes Amex?…swipe…great! …started again”😂

I only had one client try to pull a fast one on me. I always collect payment afterwards. The guy was dressed and ready to walk out without offering payment so I said “how would you like to pay?”. He makes some move to his wallet and says “oh I don’t have the cash”….in a surprised way. I think he expected or hoped I’d say “oh you were so hot and I had such fun that you don’t need to pay me, we’re now friends…this was a hookup etc”.

Some guys have this fantasy that they’re on a date, maybe I made him feel like that and of course that’s what I’m aiming to do, that’s the job… but occasionally you come across those that think ‘oh maybe it’s real?’.

I think he was one of those rather than someone trying to not pay. I felt quite awkward for him because he clearly hadn’t read the situation. Looking back on the messages we exchanged before he booked I could see he had assumed a familiarity with me despite my saying the rate and time duration etc so it clearly was a client session.

I said “oh it’s ok I have a card reader, you can pay by card”. At this point he ‘found’ some money in his wallet but it was still short of about half the fee. I’m sure he expected me to say “oh that’s enough don’t worry about the balance” but I said “there’s a cash machine 5 minutes walk away, I have to walk past it so let’s go there and you can get the balance out”. So I got dressed and walked with him…very closely..to the machine where he withdrew the balance of what he owed me. 

He’s been back a couple of times since and always had the cash. I do think I’m his situation he hopes that we’ll end up mates and I’ll see him off the clock because he often messages to hookup etc. With clients like that it’s very difficult to make sure they’re clear about the nature of the relationship. If he wasn’t paying I wouldn’t see him. Some people really struggle to understand that unfortunately and I don’t want to have to explicitly explain it. 



 

[Daniel84]

5 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

Does that mean after an hour they pay, then after another hour they pay again etc for however many hours the session lasts? I’m intrigued…is there a bell or something sounding after an hour? What if at that point your cock is in him? Do you pull out and sort the money then stick it back in once the fee is done? It’s like there’s a card reader in your ass crack the client has to swipe his card through whenever you stop pumping. “Ugh he’s stopped and I’m at my limit on the Visa, I wonder if he takes Amex?…swipe…great! …started again”😂

I only had one client try to pull a fast one on me. I always collect payment afterwards. The guy was dressed and ready to walk out without offering payment so I said “how would you like to pay?”. He makes some move to his wallet and says “oh I don’t have the cash”….in a surprised way. I think he expected or hoped I’d say “oh you were so hot and I had such fun that you don’t need to pay me, we’re now friends…this was a hookup etc”.

Some guys have this fantasy that they’re on a date, maybe I made him feel like that and of course that’s what I’m aiming to do, that’s the job… but occasionally you come across those that think ‘oh maybe it’s real?’.

I think he was one of those rather than someone trying to not pay. I felt quite awkward for him because he clearly hadn’t read the situation. Looking back on the messages we exchanged before he booked I could see he had assumed a familiarity with me despite my saying the rate and time duration etc so it clearly was a client session.

I said “oh it’s ok I have a card reader, you can pay by card”. At this point he ‘found’ some money in his wallet but it was still short of about half the fee. I’m sure he expected me to say “oh that’s enough don’t worry about the balance” but I said “there’s a cash machine 5 minutes walk away, I have to walk past it so let’s go there and you can get the balance out”. So I got dressed and walked with him…very closely..to the machine where he withdrew the balance of what he owed me. 

He’s been back a couple of times since and always had the cash. I do think I’m his situation he hopes that we’ll end up mates and I’ll see him off the clock because he often messages to hookup etc. With clients like that it’s very difficult to make sure they’re clear about the nature of the relationship. If he wasn’t paying I wouldn’t see him. Some people really struggle to understand that unfortunately and I don’t want to have to explicitly explain it. 



 

I only do this with clients if they're partying. I don't party with clients as I need to give 100% and need to be in control of the situation and take care of the client if something happens. 

I once had a client that did some extreme stuff that I wasn't aware of. His body temperature rose to where he was sweating profoundly even with the room set at 60°. I realized you could have a heat stroke from heat exhaustion and needed to take measures to protect him and keep him alive. I wound up putting him in an ice bath for 4 hours to bring his core temperature down until he came back. 

Now if a client ask if they can slam I say I'm sorry no thank you.  I had very scary experience and I'm glad that I was there to take care of him. I actually quit escorting for a few months because it shook me to the core. 

But one of the sweetest things that happened couple weeks later he sent me this beautiful letter thanking me for saving his life and he realized that he has a problem and now he's seeking to help that he needs. I'm glad that he's on a New journey and New path.

[+ Lucky]

@Daniel84 Did you not consider getting medical help for this very ill client?

[Daniel84]

1 hour ago, Lucky said:

@Daniel84 Did you not consider getting medical help for this very ill client?

I studied nursing and knew what to do. If he didn't get better I would have called 911 of course. 

As soon as I put him in a ice bath he stopped sweating profoundly and felt better. He booked me a hour but stayed 4 hours to make sure he was ok. I called him a few hours to see how he was feeling.