Yet another kissing thread. Why is it a big deal?

[viewing ownly]

I'm taking the reverse angle here. Why do so many providers of penetrative sex, rim jobs, and blow jobs draw a firm line with mouth to mouth contact? They are being seen for a small amount of time, and are acting interested with everything else it is that they do. If they're lucky, and I'm sure the situations are rare but do exist, they may have a mutual attraction in the person that hired him.

Having sex and providing oral pleasure are intimate acts, regardless of how tender or rough they are being performed. It is simply insanity to feel that mouth-to-mouth contact is any more or less homosexual of an act with another man than doing these other things. There's many different threads from the client's perspective of why men won't kiss them, and it is more so of feeling less manly or "too gay" than having anything to do with the client's breath. I think of a kiss as a sensual hello of sorts, since typically that's where intimacy begins with people of all sexes. 

[maninsoma]

Your last sentence answers your question.  A kiss is sensual and typically the beginning of something intimate.  For some that sense of intimacy is something they'd rather avoid, and getting one's dick sucked doesn't elicit the same feelings of intimacy (at least for some).

[Wings246]

Just like you, I can never understand why some providers are so repelled by it.  My theory: kissing involves a higher level of emotional and psychological component that is not as "easy" as the mechanical actions of anal, rimming, and oral activities.  Maybe the emotional / psychological investment is too much to ask for.

[DMonDude]

It's because everyone has different lines of comfortability. It's not always about what is more or less manly/gay. Some people very much do see certain acts as more intensely sexual or romantically intimate than others. It is not insanity to feel that way, it's just different to how you feel (which is insanity to feel your way to feel is the only way to feel). It's the other side of the spectrum of the clients like many here who can't feel any connection unless kissing is involved. And that's specifically because it's generally a more intimate/romantic associated action. The flip side of that for some providers means kissing is too close/crossing a boundary for a "work" interaction. It's really that simple.

The order of what actions/areas of your body are less or more intimate to interact with are not objective. They are different for everyone. There's plenty of people who don't see kissing as that intimate, many will be at a club and make out on first flirtation just for fun, or someone may cheat on a partner and go "it was just a kiss". It's just not the same for everyone.

So just because a provider may be ok letting any client interact with their genitals doesn't mean they should automatically be comfortable with kissing. Yes, even for people in this line of work. I think you are greatly underestimating the emotional/psychological investment that Wings246 mentioned, that is required to do the job.

I'd also add. That by your own logic here, you should also be asking, why aren't providers who top also ok with bottoming or vice versa. And that's clearly silly because they don't have to provide something they aren't comfortable or ok with providing. Just because kissing isn't genital based or penetrative doesn't make it different to that.

Edited Tuesday at 11:13 PM by DMonDude
added comparisons, adjusted paragraphs

[jeezifonly]

The reason it strikes me as odd, is that a large portion of the general population either has, or would be willing to, make out with a first date, or even a with a complete stranger at a club or a party, and not even consider it cheating on a partner not in attendance, because it's just kissing... 

Random lines drawn around intimacy to suit internal conflicts. 

[viewing ownly]

1 hour ago, DMonDude said:

It's because everyone has different lines of comfortability. It's not always about what is more or less manly/gay. Some people very much do see certain acts as more intensely sexual or romantically intimate than others. It is not insanity to feel that way, it's just different to how you feel (which is insanity to feel your way to feel is the only way to feel). It's the other side of the spectrum of the clients like many here who can't feel any connection unless kissing is involved. And that's specifically because it's generally a more intimate/romantic associated action. The flip side of that for some providers means kissing is too close/crossing a boundary for a "work" interaction. It's really that simple.

The order of what actions/areas of your body are less or more intimate to interact with are not objective. They are different for everyone. There's plenty of people who don't see kissing as that intimate, many will be at a club and make out on first flirtation just for fun, or someone may cheat on a partner and go "it was just a kiss". It's just not the same for everyone.

So just because a provider may be ok letting any client interact with their genitals doesn't mean they should automatically be comfortable with kissing. Yes, even for people in this line of work. I think you are greatly underestimating the emotional/psychological investment that Wings246 mentioned, that is required to do the job.

I'd also add. That by your own logic here, you should also be asking, why aren't providers who top also ok with bottoming or vice versa. And that's clearly silly because they don't have to provide something they aren't comfortable or ok with providing. Just because kissing isn't genital based or penetrative doesn't make it different to that.

Note that I indicate many, and not all pertaining to kissing. As for topping and bottoming preferences, position varies from guy to guy, so I see your point there to lump kissing in with personal preference, so I see where you're coming from for me to be much less judgemental.

However, I truly enjoy seeing men (of course only going by watching porn, so in a way a terrible example) who had highly limited resumes on what they were willing to do end up letting their guard down over time - and as a result, they are FAR more fun to watch. Someone willing to do more is probably going to get more business. If a guy is willing to lock lips, it's astonishing how many more men would be interested in his company. 

[DMonDude]

2 hours ago, jeezifonly said:

The reason it strikes me as odd, is that a large portion of the general population either has, or would be willing to, make out with a first date, or even a with a complete stranger at a club or a party, and not even consider it cheating on a partner not in attendance, because it's just kissing... 

Random lines drawn around intimacy to suit internal conflicts. 

It's almost as if it's based on mutual attraction (or lack thereof) and individual choice.

Edited Wednesday at 02:15 AM by DMonDude

[+ KensingtonHomo]

I love kissing. If a provider isn't only down to kiss but is also a good kisser. That said, some people do consider kissing more intimate than giving head or fucking. It's just their point of view, and there's a degree to which I agree with it. 

Another factor for gay men is that we have been trained as men to objectify the people we have sex with. That's a training many of us - myself included, to some extent - have not unpacked. Layer on porn where everyone is perpetually hard, where there's often a lot of aggression even if it isn't a dom/sub scene, and the focus is not on kissing; it's on penetration. Another angle is that besides being intimate, kissing can be a bit overwhelming - especially if you're riding high on fucking or being fucked. For me, it took me a long time to appreciate the afterglow because in the few moments after orgasm, I'm often overstimulated. So being kissed or having someone - even my husband, who I love dearly - in my face can feel intrusive. 

Now add to that that this is work for the provider. They want to perform well. If you're a good client or they think you will be, they want repeat business, so maybe they're focusing on maintaining their erection, maybe they're trying to read you, maybe they're trying to hold off on cumming. 

Also, there are a lot of awful kissers out there, and people don't always have good hygiene. So if you're a provider who's had a bunch of bad kissers with questionable breath, which has fucked over your performance in the past, it may make you take kissing off the table. We hooked up with a guy in P Town, not a provider, and he was the worst kisser. Maybe he was nervous, but he was also somewhat stiff, and not far into it, we both lost our erections. He also didn't give good head. So it was a frustrating experience. 

So lots of reasons! 

[ACluelessGent]

I love kissing. But, as I experienced recently, sometimes, there is too much of a good thing. 

Edited Wednesday at 06:02 AM by ACluelessGent

[MscleLovr]

I can’t answer the OP’s question.
I just know that kissing forms a very important part of foreplay for me.

Indeed if someone before a date specified No kissing, there’d be No date.

[nomad]

I recently encountered a situation where prior to the meet they guy said he would kiss but not provide oral.  Was fine receiving but not giving.  So going in I had reduced expectations.  When we met up, the kissing was intense.  On his own he ended up giving and received oral.  He said he rarely does it because most of the clients don't vibe with him and he isn't into it.  Kissing is a way for him to see who he connects with. 

[+ Jamie21]

I think the difference is because when kissing you are both equal. Other acts like top or bottom one person is in a more dominant position. For many guys sex is about power; being submissive or dominant and that’s the dynamic that gets them going. With kissing there’s no dominant person, both are equal. That’s a different kind of sexual intimacy to the power dynamic of top / bottom sexual intimacy. I think that’s why kissing is seen by some as too much. 
Personally I find it difficult not to kiss if the session is progressing well. I’m slightly disappointed when clients decline to kiss….something seems missing. We still have a sexy time but kissing just makes a big difference. 

[PVink]

The last thing I want is for a partner consenting to kissing if he doesn’t want to. It will show in their performance and I don’t want someone doing something they don’t want to do.

Passionate kissing, and other things, is a necessary component to my fully enjoying the experience.

I have found providers who willingly provide the experience I’m looking for and I’ll repeat my visits with them. They are either really into all that, or they are great performers

For the ones I meet who don’t provide the full experience I’m looking for, I am appreciative and respectful of their time but I won’t meet them again. Why invest your resources if you are not completely satisfied, especially if you CAN have your needs met?  Nor do I point out the areas where s provider doesn’t meet my needs unless they ask, and they rarely do. What a provider won’t do is deeply personal to them and I won’t question that.

Bottom line: you will find providers out there who will meet your needs. For the ones that don’t, always be kind and nonjudgmental, but move on. It’s fundamentally about consent, free will and comfort level. All factors must be present for both partners for me to have an optimal experience. 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

7 minutes ago, PVink said:

I have found providers who willingly provide the experience I’m looking for and I’ll repeat my visits with them. They are either really into all that, or they are great performers

For the ones I meet who don’t provide the full experience I’m looking for, I am appreciative and respectful of their time but I won’t meet them again. Why invest your resources if you are not completely satisfied, especially if you CAN have your needs met?

I think this is the real answer. Rather than think about what certain providers don't do, find the ones who offer the experience you're looking for and stick with them. If someone says they don't kiss, that tells you it's not a fit. So move on. 

[Peter Eater]

15 hours ago, maninsoma said:

For some that sense of intimacy is something they'd rather avoid, and getting one's dick sucked doesn't elicit the same feelings of intimacy (at least for some).

Hiring (and being hired) often involves a determined avoidance of intimacy.

[DMonDude]

1 hour ago, PVink said:

The last thing I want is for a partner consenting to kissing if he doesn’t want to. It will show in their performance and I don’t want someone doing something they don’t want to do

I agree, but this is the interesting part of all this, to me personally. The cognitive dissonance needed by any of us to feel this way about the kissing aspect, but not about everything else we all hire providers to do. Knowing it's not something they'd want to do with most clients if they weren't being hired to do so. If that were really true, this hobby wouldn't exist. Clients are paying to circumvent the normal requirements for their consent to engage in what we engage in. That's why i think it's funny some here are so baffled by the lines in the sand some providers have.

Edited Wednesday at 01:50 PM by DMonDude

[Nue2thegame]

2 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

I think the difference is because when kissing you are both equal. Other acts like top or bottom one person is in a more dominant position. For many guys sex is about power; being submissive or dominant and that’s the dynamic that gets them going. With kissing there’s no dominant person, both are equal.

Most of the time, yes, but I’ve met a couple recently when I literally couldn’t get my tongue out of my mouth. But, who’s complaining?

[carnalvore]

I think one issue, particularly with traveling providers, is that they can get a cold or flu through kissing that could reduce the earning potential. It’s a bigger issue for travelers because you are being exposed to local infections that your body may not have as much natural immunity to.

As a client i sometimes avoid kissing for this reason, though lately i feel like it isn’t worth doing without kissing.