Discussion: Stop Slander:Rejected Clients Smearing Providers

[Spikeguy]

Maybe the PNP tag means he doesn’t object if the client uses.  Although I think most would view power bottom as a compliment.

[Coloradoguy]

How on earth is a moderator supposed to determine the true from the false?  Give the guy a drug test?  I’d be hesitant to hire someone with a review like that, but even more hesitant with the vehement response from the provider.  Sure, correct any misconceptions, but me think the lady doth protest too much.

[+ PhileasFogg]

Emotions aside:

1) as stated, the offending post about meth is potentially libelous and made my someone who’s not active on this forum.  I suspect any of us would have taken that with a grain of salt until this thread came along.

2) meth is the “sex drug” leading to unquenchable and compulsive appetite for sex and also endurance for bottoming referenced in the OP’s ad on RM

3) read the OP’s ad if you haven’t.  It describes a voracious appetite for sex, anywhere, anytime, the more the merrier.   It also says PnP which, despite seeing comments made by us here, the OP has chosen to not remove as of a few minutes ago.  He doesn’t need to remove it…his verbal commentary implies it anyway  

In the end, libel is a civil complaint determined based on the preponderance of evidence.

I’m not in a position to judge the OP or to know the facts leading to the offensive post.  BUT, I am in a position to have an opinion on what I see.  Since the OP - newly joined here to respond on his grievance - came out not just defending himself but attacking as well, so I feel inclined to offer my opinion based on what I see.

I’m glad he’s well educated and standing up for himself.  I don’t see anything in that profile that refutes the offensive assertion or makes me want to hire this guy when sobriety and maturity are two of the three most important things I seek from guys.   His response in this thread is a double edged sword but does not make a rational case, in my opinion, suggesting merit to warrant deleting posts or refuting the observation of the poster.

There are two issues here:

1) Should we treat everyone with respect?  IMO - absolutely. 
2) Has this guy been wronged? IMO - I’m not sure, but he probably has gotten a lot of inquiries from the rough sex, PnP crowd since making this thread..

Edited yesterday at 09:12 AM by PhileasFogg

[DLEroticProv12]

Honestly, if this site really wants to be above-board, it would require that a provider consents to being posted about before allowing posts about them. I get it that it's free speech and all that, but the very personal topic and the ways in which it can be misconstrued make it where it would behoove everyone if this were the policy.  Not trying to be boring here... just my take on it. Providers do this work for all different reasons. The posts here often forget there is a person  there. The fact that anyone can just post anything they want and that it so directly affects someone''s livelihood is really just not responsible. 

[+ PhileasFogg]

24 minutes ago, DLEroticProv12 said:

Honestly, if this site really wants to be above-board, it would require that a provider consents to being posted about before allowing posts about them. I get it that it's free speech and all that, but the very personal topic and the ways in which it can be misconstrued make it where it would behoove everyone if this were the policy.  Not trying to be boring here... just my take on it. Providers do this work for all different reasons. The posts here often forget there is a person  there. The fact that anyone can just post anything they want and that it so directly affects someone''s livelihood is really just not responsible. 

Well, there goes Yelp…

one time, I had a guy with a huge number of 5 star reviews show up at my house for a massage, crawl on top of me and say “I’ll move into this house and make you my bitch”.  Hmmm,  yeah…I should have asked his consent to tell that story here. 🙄

Edited yesterday at 10:16 AM by PhileasFogg

[+ Jamie21]

The OP asked providers if they have experienced clients posting bad reviews because things didn’t go their way. I’ve never had that happen, not knowingly anyway. I guess there could be unflattering reviews or comments out there about me (if anyone finds any please tell me!). Tbh I don’t care. Clients can post whatever they like. You can’t please everyone and those posting vituperative comments will be seen for what they are by most sensible people, and will only influence those clients who I’d prefer didn’t come to me anyway - that’s a positive outcome! 

By the way, the OP mentions the comments were slanderous. Not so. Slander is spoken not written. If it’s written as a record then the term is libellous (if it’s not true of course). If you say PNP in your adverts / profile then it’s more likely that the dissatisfied client’s comments are true than if your advertising says ‘no drugs’.

Personally I have never used drugs because I prefer to be present during sex but I’ve no problem with others using them. They just need to be prepared to be criticised for it. Just like I’m fine to be criticised for doing sex work. People with narrow or closed minds will always do that. Their problem not mine. 
 

[+ Pensant]

2 hours ago, PhileasFogg said:

I don’t see anything in that profile that refutes the offensive assertion or makes me want to hire this guy when sobriety and maturity are two of the three most important things I seek from guys.

Yes!

[Hen]

8 hours ago, Spikeguy said:

Maybe the PNP tag means he doesn’t object if the client uses.  Although I think most would view power bottom as a compliment.

That's what I always assumed Spike, but that could also be my naivety. 

[JacOB SESSION]

15 hours ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

Bozo has never met Jacob.  and as @Pd1_jap stated it is difficult to discern what is true these days. Without any other facts it really is a "he said/he said" situation. And both the member who wrote the positive review and the member who wrote the negative review have only a handful of posts between them. 

https://www.companyofmen.org/topic/161383-411-on-jacob_session-new-orleans/#comment-2474650

However, in general, when trying to deny that you are a drug user, it is not helpful to your case to write in your RM Bio that you are "Into PNP". That's not a good look:

from AI:

PnP stands for "Party and Play," a term primarily used within gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (GBMSM) communities to describe the deliberate combination of recreational drug use with sexual activity. Also known as chemsex, it involves high-risk behaviors and specific substances, often leading to significant mental and physical health risks. 

BTC
🤡

Doesn’t say I do. If the client wants to he can and just because someone like sex and can be a power bottom at times why then does that mean they automatically have to be on drugs. It’s so pathetic 

[JacOB SESSION]

16 hours ago, BOZO T CLOWN said:

Bozo has never met Jacob.  and as @Pd1_jap stated it is difficult to discern what is true these days. Without any other facts it really is a "he said/he said" situation. And both the member who wrote the positive review and the member who wrote the negative review have only a handful of posts between them. 

https://www.companyofmen.org/topic/161383-411-on-jacob_session-new-orleans/#comment-2474650

However, in general, when trying to deny that you are a drug user, it is not helpful to your case to write in your RM Bio that you are "Into PNP". That's not a good look:

from AI:

PnP stands for "Party and Play," a term primarily used within gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (GBMSM) communities to describe the deliberate combination of recreational drug use with sexual activity. Also known as chemsex, it involves high-risk behaviors and specific substances, often leading to significant mental and physical health risks. 

BTC
🤡

 

[Peter Eater]

11 hours ago, PhileasFogg said:

I wonder if he realizes that the negative comment would have faded into oblivion until he brought attention to it

The Streisand Effect?

[JacOB SESSION]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Appreciate the support and even the pushback at least we’re talking about it. I did have pnp on my rent.men profile. That was a dumb move, and I already took it down. The positive review in that thread even said “Didn’t notice any drug issues.” There’s a difference between being open to clients who party and getting called a “big time crystal meth addict” with zero proof. I’m not in denial or throwing a fit. I’m just tired of one bitter comment trying to trash a guy’s name when there’s a good review sitting right there saying the opposite. If someone has a real bad experience, fine.  post it. But making stuff up because you didn’t get your way? That’s not okay. Would I go to your job and publicly post lies that could mess with your livelihood, calling you names in front of all your coworkers and the whole internet? Probably not. So why is it fine when it happened here?Thanks to everyone who said my education background is impressive. Means a lot I try to be a stand-up guy who works hard at this. I’m Not looking for drama just want the reviews to stay honest instead of turning into petty revenge.Let’s keep it real.

[Peter Eater]

4 minutes ago, JacOB SESSION said:

The positive review in that thread even said “Didn’t notice any drug issues.” There’s a difference between being open to clients who party and getting called a “big time crystal meth addict” with zero proof. I’m not in denial

👏

[+ PhileasFogg]

42 minutes ago, JacOB SESSION said:

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Appreciate the support and even the pushback at least we’re talking about it. I did have pnp on my rent.men profile. That was a dumb move, and I already took it down. The positive review in that thread even said “Didn’t notice any drug issues.” There’s a difference between being open to clients who party and getting called a “big time crystal meth addict” with zero proof. I’m not in denial or throwing a fit. I’m just tired of one bitter comment trying to trash a guy’s name when there’s a good review sitting right there saying the opposite. If someone has a real bad experience, fine.  post it. But making stuff up because you didn’t get your way? That’s not okay. Would I go to your job and publicly post lies that could mess with your livelihood, calling you names in front of all your coworkers and the whole internet? Probably not. So why is it fine when it happened here?Thanks to everyone who said my education background is impressive. Means a lot I try to be a stand-up guy who works hard at this. I’m Not looking for drama just want the reviews to stay honest instead of turning into petty revenge.Let’s keep it real.

I applaud your response even in the face of my own push back.  Thank you for stating all of that respectfully as you righteously defend your reputation  

There are plenty here who can be petty.  Honestly, most here have been here a while and discount the validity of guys who join, make a couple of incendiary posts, and then move on.   Your offensive poster was one of those.

I think I’d speak for many here to say we’d love to have you as an active and contributing member of this group.   Your feedback and defense of the rights and respectability of providers is highly valued 

Edited 23 hours ago by PhileasFogg

[pubic_assistance]

49 minutes ago, JacOB SESSION said:

I did have pnp on my rent.men profile. That was a dumb move...

Good move.

PNP on a profile is a definite RED FLAG for many. I would immediately pass on anyone who lists it.  (Even with the very desirable description of "hungry power bottom". 🍑 )

In every business, where reviews are part of the formula, you encounter the occasional client who didn't get quite the experience, they wanted and will choose to blame the provider and exaggerate the situation. The answer to your question of how to prevent being slandered, is that you can only work to make sure the rest of your reviews stand in stark contrast.  For examole: most mature adults can see through the random restaurant review, where someone complained about bad food and bad service, when multiple others said the opposite. We all know about these types of sad-sacks who are never happy with anything. You can't make them disappear, but you can give us a reason to look the other way.

I agree with the comment above, that you "doth protest too much". A simple explanation of a customer who is bitter and lashing out, would have been adequate. We all know that this happens. Keep your head up, and stay above the fray. 

 

[maninsoma]

Yes, I think experienced clients are generally smart enough to distinguish between a hit-and-run poster (whether he attempts to malign a particular escort or praise one effusively) and one who contributes measured content.  

Your scenario, while different in details, reminds me of another back-and-forth between an alleged client and escort that ultimately left the escort looking like the sane one.  I won't go into all of the details, but the client's complaint was, ultimately, that he thought he was so hot that he should get full service for $50.  He tried to hide the relevant details in his initial post, basically calling the escort in question a thief, but the escort's description of what transpired was far more cogent -- plus he shared receipts without divulging the client's identifying information, and it was clear that the client was simply trying to get more than he was willing to pay for.  

There have also been numerous occasions here where a new poster attempts to malign a newish escort, but it's pretty easy for anyone with half a brain to see through those.

The solution to this is not to prevent actual clients from posting their honest experiences but rather for the escort being able to rise above negativity by ignoring it if it's a one time silly thing, relying on other positive posts to outnumber the negative one, and, especially, not presenting yourself in a manner that gives credence to the negativity.  It sounds like you removed PNP from your ad which is wise unless you actually do use substances in connection with your work.  Simply protesting that you don't use drugs while having PNP in your ad doesn't mean anything to anyone who has ever known anyone with a substance abuse problem because, until they are ready to admit their problem and seek help for it, they always present with denials of their drug use.

Edited 20 hours ago by maninsoma

[+ KensingtonHomo]

10 hours ago, Coloradoguy said:

I’d be hesitant to hire someone with a review like that, but even more hesitant with the vehement response from the provider.  Sure, correct any misconceptions, but me think the lady doth protest too much.

Eh... Saying someone's vehement denial of a false accusation without any evidence is gaslighting. I've been sober or 27 years and do not hire people with PNP in their profile but I also realize it doesn't necessarily mean "I'm a crystal meth" addict. Like many things on the Internet, people are overreacting and making leaps based on little evidence. 

[Chancealot]

My two cents is simply 

he said she said is the way of the world and as someone mentioned with restaurant reviews if there’s 1-2 not good ones and 30 very good well we know the drill 

This level of pushback reminds me of a very recent one about age of client - that was worse frankly.  and the idea that “any publicity is good publicity” is not accurate - some things are much better left as is 

I continue to be amazed that so many clients (the primary membership here) by default take the side of the provider - very odd 

PNP is what it is - period - for me it’s a disqualifier and it’s hard to promote that as acceptable/good and then be shocked when accusations of drug abuse are made - human nature and all

thanks for listening 

 

 

 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, KensingtonHomo said:

Saying someone's vehement denial of a false accusation without any evidence is gaslighting.

I think it's more nuanced than that.

I agree with @Coloradoguy, that such vehement denial of drug use, while posting that one of your "interests" is drug use, is CERTAINLY suspect, while not necessarily rising to the level of "gaslighting". The young man is wise to end the discussion by removing the reference of partying from his advertisement. As @maninsoma mentions, we have ALL knows those people who suffer from addiction, that are the first to deny that their drug use "isn't a problem". 

[SecretProvider]

10 hours ago, Coloradoguy said:

I’d be hesitant to hire someone with a review like that, but even more hesitant with the vehement response from the provider.  Sure, correct any misconceptions, but me think the lady doth protest too much.

Ignore it, then it becomes truth. Defend it, and have asinine comments like this. Dammed if you do, Dammed if you don't.

So many assumptions made about the PNP on a profile- does it mean he likes to drink? Does it mean he doesn't mind if you parTy but he himself does not. Does it mean he likes to light up a joint but nothing harder?  Well, you know what they say about assumptions right? 

Having said that, I'm pretty confident that when I make the assumption that you would also be similarly upset if you had a performance review posted on a notice board at your work place for all your colleagues and clients to see (which is what this site essentially is) that said you were a drug addict. Then when you rebut it you were accused of clutching your pearls with comments like yours above, it would probably further upset you. 

The thing about throwing mud is: it sticks. That is why trolls do it- they are like pigs, or dare I even say it: CLOWNS. 

@JacOB SESSION - You are not wrong for being upset. Anyone would be. Trolls are awful. There can be a 99 people in a room saying great things - but then one person makes a nasty snide comment and it suddenly becomes the loudest. 

I'd encourage you to delete this particular thread so when potential clients search you up here they don't read all this nonsense. However the advice to remove PNP from your profile is also sound. I find clients searching for PNP play have no issue asking you if you indulge whether it is on your profile or not, which gives you the chance to clarify your level of comfort in that area when they do. 

When lies are posted it is easy for people to say 'just ignore it', and it is hard to not react emotionally. We are effectively a small business, and false negative reviews have devastating and disproportionate consequences for us. To clarify - What may seem to some on this board as a silly throw away comment that took zero energy to make can mean we no longer can pay our rent, and stays up in perpetuity which feels particularly unfair when the comment is not true. My advice is to take a breath, and reply with factual statements and not opinions. ( for eg. "i am versatile and provide bottoming and topping for my clients." instead of defending your feelings on power bottoming/bottom shaming.)

After that you make this type of statement- which i think you did a pretty good job of anyway - then leave it be. Like all trolls, monsters or CLOWNS the more you feed them the fatter and uglier they become. And like most pigs, they actually enjoy rolling in shit and getting fat.  Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.

Sit above it and be clean. 

[+ FrankR]

2 hours ago, Chancealot said:

 

PNP is what it is - period - for me it’s a disqualifier and it’s hard to promote that as acceptable/good and then be shocked when accusations of drug abuse are made - human nature and all

thanks for listening 

 

 

 

Thank you for your rant. I am sorry to say that your “two cents”  appear to be indicative of a severe case of “tunnel vision”. If you are not open to the idea that you may be misreading someone’s intentions…you will always see things the same way.

[Cretus]

Lol. It is stunning how many people see the tag PNP and conclude with certainty that the person who tagged it is a meth-head of some sort, when they could well be tagging it to suggest that they are ok with a client doing whatever drugs said client wants to do.

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Cretus

[d.anders]

With sex work, addiction is always the elephant in the room, isn't it? Client or provider. It seems to me, the line between sex and any other addiction is very thin. How is anyone supposed to know, until it reveals itself?

PNP is an option in these ads for a reason. So many gay men love having sex when they are high. 

IMO, when Jacob wrote "I’m not a meth addict — not even close," it begs the question, how close with meth? A poor choice of words does not make someone an addict, but drug use is drug use, and a lot of customers don't want to engage with PNP players.

If you do drugs or let clients do them while on a job, you open the door to everything that comes with drug use. Lies are at the top of the list.

 

[+ FrankR]

51 minutes ago, d.anders said:

With sex work, addiction is always the elephant in the room, isn't it? Client or provider. It seems to me, the line between sex and any other addiction is very thin. How is anyone supposed to know, until it reveals itself?

PNP is an option in these ads for a reason. So many gay men love having sex when they are high. 

IMO, when Jacob wrote "I’m not a meth addict — not even close," it begs the question, how close with meth? A poor choice of words does not make someone an addict, but drug use is drug use, and a lot of customers don't want to engage with PNP players.

If you do drugs or let clients do them while on a job, you open the door to everything that comes with drug use. Lies are at the top of the list.

 

I dont understand why you would call it the elephant in the room. According to the CDC, construction workers have the highest rate of drug use and drug overdose rates (opiods).  Same is true in Europe as well, not just USA. Sex workers isnt in the top 3.  You are welcome to your opinion, but your assumptions need work. 

[JayinHKNYC]

The vast majority of posts on this site (not this thread) are unhelpful/inaccurate/negative - whatever word you want to use. I prefer the people with hundreds of posts whose contributions are valued, even when sometimes I disagree with them. Admittedly a fantasy, but it would be nice if there were a way to eliminate the hit-and-run artists -- people who apparently cancel their accounts and rejoin under another name and post crap in the threads. Even though, yes, the OP could just have let the one comment go, and let it fade away, I'm glad he started the discussion, because, again, there are just way too many crap-posts uploaded here.