Deposits should be required

[+ purplekow]

As a physician, when I first opened my walk-in office I would accept checks in payment.  Fairly soon after that, I had a large number of checks bouncing.  (This was the 90s people and even then check kiters had a network) After a bit, I stopped taking checks; even though the town where my office was located would send the police after local check kiters.  My loss of money was small but my loss in my faith that my patients  respected me dropped considerably.  That was actually the bigger loss.  Funny thing is, when we sent out bills, people paid by check and those almost never bounced and on the rare occasion that. one did, a phone call got a replacement and an apology.   I did lose a few patients related to not taking checks, but it was worth the decrease in aggravation and in the sense of being cheated.   

If you want to charge a deposit, it is your business and you may do as you see fit as the best way to organize it.  Just expect that some regulars might stop coming and you will lose a percentage of new patients as well.  Only you will be able to tell if the deposit policy is working.   I have paid a deposit once.  It seemed reasonable as it was a small amount and he was traveling over an hour to see me.  I felt the risk was small.  As it turned out the reward was big, very big as I recall.  So I would not presume to say do it or not, but if you are in a competitive market and others are not asking for down payment, you may find yourself changing the policy or looking for a new line of work.  

Edited December 22, 2024 by purplekow

[Daniel84]

2 minutes ago, purplekow said:

As a physician, when I first opened my walk-in office I would accept checks in payment.  Fairly soon after that, I had a large number of checks bouncing.  (This was the 90s people and even then check kiters had a network) After a bit, I stopped taking checks; even though the town where my office was located would send the police after local check kiters.  My loss of money was small but my loss in my faith that my patients  respected me dropped considerably.  That was actually the bigger loss.  Funny thing is, when we sent out bills, people paid by check and those almost never bounced and on the rare occasion that. one did, a phone call got a replacement and an apology.   I did lose a few patients related to not taking checks, but it was worth the decreased in aggravation and the sense of being cheated.   

If you want to charge a deposit, it is your business and you may do as you see fit as the best way to organize it.  Just expect that some regulars might stop coming and you will lose a percentage of new patients as well.  Only you will be able to tell if the deposit policy is working.   I have paid a deposit once.  It seemed reasonable as it was a small amount and he was traveling over an hour to see me.  I felt the risk was small.  As it turned out the reward was big, very big as I recall.  So I would not presume to say do it or not, but if you are in a competitive market and others are not asking for down payment, you may find yourslef changing the policy or looking for a new line of work.  

The deposit would be for new clients. I would never make my regulars pay me a deposit. If they have questionable reviews on Mr. Number oh hell, yes they have to pay a deposit. They don’t wanna pay a deposit. I’m probably saving myself from a  a headache.

no, if a client wants to book 3 hours during peak times then yes a deposit is required. It’s very easy to fill a one hour time slot but to fill three hours or more is very difficult.

[Walt]

3 hours ago, Daniel84 said:

The amount of no-shows...

Of course, you do speak over the phone to each person making an appointment to understand what they are looking for, to get a sense of their personality and/or flakiness, and to give them a general positive feeling that meeting you will be both fun and nonthreatening, don't you?

Or do you accept appointments based solely on a half dozen lines of texting?

 

[Ali Gator]

31 minutes ago, Daniel84 said:

Just like every single barber that I’ve gone to. if barbers and hair salons required to be booked via online portal why can’t Massage?  

This is news to me. I never heard of any barber or hair salon (in my area, at least) requiring a booking via online portal, or asking for a deposit. The ones which I'm familiar with (and I just made an appointment the other day with a new place for after New Year's) still take phone calls to answer questions for new clients, and make the appointment. The few places I called around (and the one which I ended up booking) never mentioned a deposit was required for the appointment.  

[Daniel84]

8 minutes ago, Walt said:

Of course, you do speak over the phone to each person making an appointment to understand what they are looking for, to get a sense of their personality and/or flakiness, and to give them a general positive feeling that meeting you will be both fun and nonthreatening, don't you?

Or do you accept appointments based solely on a half dozen lines of texting?

 

most clients do not talk on the phone. It is via text. After we go through the needs and wants for each appointment, I always circle back and ask are we confirmed for this set time. What irritates me the most is today two clients confirmed, and one confirmed via phone and text and didn't show up. 

[Daniel84]

3 minutes ago, Ali Gator said:

This is news to me. I never heard of any barber or hair salon (in my area, at least) requiring a booking via online portal, or asking for a deposit. The ones which I'm familiar with (and I just made an appointment the other day with a new place for after New Year's) still take phone calls to answer questions for new clients, and make the appointment. The few places I called around (and the one which I ended up booking) never mentioned a deposit was required for the appointment.  

High end barbers/ salons that are in demand require a card on file in case you don't show up. I am not sure where you live. I just got a haircut and a fade in LA and I had to put my credit card information down to book the session.

[mike carey]

Although not a new subject here (as others have so eloquently noted) but still interesting in some ways. I don't see the point in rehearsing the same 'I never send a deposit' viewpoints, nor do I see any point in a client starting a new thread to ask whether it was a good idea to pay one. No minds will be changed by any of that.

What I do find interesting and potentially useful (not necessarily in influencing my behaviour) is to hear from providers who have reluctantly come to the conclusion that deposits might help with a problem they have at the time. Some posters here have noted @Daniel84's reasoning and offered suggestions to address specifically what he's had issues with. I suspect that's more useful than 'Just say no'. There have been other comments restating long held opinions thoughtfully, as replies to his concerns.

Any provider who reluctantly start know that it's widely seen as a bad idea, so don't need people to tell them again, loudly. They want their rationale to be understood.

[Walt]

2 minutes ago, Daniel84 said:

most clients do not talk on the phone. It is via text. After we go through the needs and wants for each appointment, I always circle back and ask are we confirmed for this set time. What irritates me the most is today two clients confirmed, and one confirmed via phone and text and didn't show up. 

So what percentage of the people you actually have a REAL conversation with flake out?

[Daniel84]

I would only require deposits for multiple hour appointments. if I have to drive an hour or more to go see a client I do expect some skin in the game. Do you have any idea how many clients I drove a hour to go see and then when I arrive. I message them on rent men and they see I have been blocked. I never understood the reasoning for the Block. Maybe they got off and they don’t need to hire somebody now but instead of just canceling and being respectful, it’s easier to block. 

I understand the pain in the ass in the feeling of being scammed by some shitty ass providers. I have been scammed myself. but just like dancing, it takes two to tango. 

[Daniel84]

11 minutes ago, Walt said:

So what percentage of the people you actually have a REAL conversation with flake out?

The 90 minute massage I had scheduled at 5 PM today. Spoke on the phone and confirmed had a great chat actually and also confirmed via text.

my 7-9PM tonight flaked ( he read my messages asking if he was coming" after not showing up this morning. We confirmed multiple times via text and has been texting me the last four days.

today I had to block off my calendar from 4 PM till 10 PM on a Saturday night and have two clients in a row not show up. we can blame it on the water the weather, the politics or we can just blame it on peoplea lack of respect and civility is a thing of the past. 

Edited December 22, 2024 by Daniel84

[Walt]

Hmmmm.  Let me try to ask slightly clearer: What percentage of the people you actually have a REAL conversations with (using vocal chords and ears, not texting) flake out?

[Daniel84]

4 minutes ago, Walt said:

Hmmmm.  Let me try to ask slightly clearer: What percentage of the people you actually have a REAL conversations with (using vocal chords and ears, not texting) flake out?

With all due respect with that tone, you would not be a client of mine. I don’t know about your sexual orientation, but a lot of my clients are married , straight, in the in closet ,ect. The Escort clients that do call me are usually the ones that are jacking off and not looking to actually meet. 

The majority of my business is Massage, which the no show rate is extremely low maybe 2% to 5%. Most of my clients that are looking for a massage are business professionals looking for location,rate, style, pressure and availability. they don’t have time to talk on the phone during a busy workday. 

Now in regards to Escort clients I try to get them on the phone but it can be very tricky as like I stated above they might be doing this behind a partner, etc. 

[corndog]

This problem actually goes both ways. As clients, I think many of us have experienced providers flaking out or not showing up. In many cases, we've carved a significant amount of time out of our schedules, showered, douched, planned our diet around bottoming, sometimes rented a hotel room, etc. When we're stood up, it usually isn't a simple matter to find another option that is available on short notice. Our time is valuable, too.

Perhaps we, as clients, should require a deposit to ensure that providers show up. Laughable, right?

So, although I sympathize with your frustration, it's unfortunately a risk that we all must accept. Yes, it sucks.

[ReynST]

I require a telephone number for all bookings and save all contact numbers. Any person who is a no-show is listed as a "Now Show" and to book another session they have to first pay for the session that was missed. This is possible because I use Square and can take online payments or send a payment link.

Obviously, this isn't a solution that eliminates the problem but it does give some small amount of vindication. Many of the offenders have tried to hit me up months or years later to try to book again and I send them the payment link. Most try ghosting for a few more months until I block them but two actually ended up forking it over for the session they missed.

Oddly the two both ended up being younger, like college age and one payed over installments ... 50% more for the first session and 25% for the following two.

[+ Jamie21]

4 hours ago, Daniel84 said:

The majority of my business is Massage, which the no show rate is extremely low maybe 2% to 5%.

This is what I suspected. I have the same experience. Most of my clients are massage clients (sensual / erotic massage…) and the no show rate is below 1%. 

For escort type work, the rate of no show is higher. I think deposits are a very blunt tool to use to weed out flakes but I do occasionally request them, especially if the booking involves escort type work, travel and another escort (duo session).

However to avoid deposit requests I try to detect the flakes when they make contact. The signs are there: a flaky initial message: ‘hey’ or ‘how much?’ Both openings are a 99% certain sign of a flake. The casualness is a big red flag. 

Then the interaction veers towards sexting where they describe what they want, some even send pics to show me what positions they want. If these guys do actually get to the stage of making a booking (usually it’s all just chat) then I tell them I’ll send them a reminder text the day of the session or night before if it’s a morning session. If they don’t respond to that message within a hour then I’ll assume they changed their minds and I won’t attend the booking. Most of the time they don’t respond or they come back with ‘hi something came up so I can’t make it’ and that’s a bullet dodged for me because I’m sure they’d forgotten or booked when horny and had no intention of turning up. 

Sometimes I’ve declined to take bookings from clients because they just have too many red flags: the ‘hey’ opening, the elaborate descriptions of what they want to do, requests for pics, sending pics, comments like ‘definitely up for this’ (which I translate as ‘I’m so horny right now I’m going to wank to the thought of it and then lose interest completely and forget I booked’), the requests for discounts because they’re either hot (their definition), a virgin, unemployed, deserve it, or just because they think I’m desperate. These are ‘clients’ I don’t need or want. 

I’m so with @Daniel84 on this because when a flake does get through it’s not so much that I’m upset at the lost time and money it’s the real hurt it gives me to have been taken in and that he can be so blasé about my work. When you really try hard to do a good job it hits you badly when that is treated with indifference. 


 

 

 

[Km411]

As a client, I always require a deposit 😜 

[+ Pensant]

13 hours ago, Cretus said:

There really ought to be an escort-centered site in order to air these grievances on a platform less biased against yourself. 

There is. Some providers use it to screen time-wasters.

[Km411]

I don’t see why paying a reasonable deposit is controversial. Scammers can be avoided by doing some basic vetting. I’ve paid reasonable deposits, and I’ve paid providers fees for no-shows commensurate with the amount of notice. Just seems courteous. I want to feel good about my experiences, which starts with treating others and their time respectfully. 

[soloyo215]

Th

14 hours ago, Daniel84 said:

I’ve been in the business for a very long time with over 150 5 star reviews. The amount of no-shows that I have had the pleasure of dealing with this past month is making me rethink the requirement of deposits. Clients I have seen before would not need to pay deposit. The deposit would be $25 just to know that the client is real and has skin in the game. 

I had three no-shows today alone. If you can’t make an appointment, grow a pair of balls and cancel or reschedule it. It’s such an easy concept. I hire massage therapist all the time and if I can’t make an appointment or I am running late I will let the provider know.

 

I don't do deposits. If that means I cannot see a given provider, then so be it. It's a deal breaker to me.

This is one of those things that don't have a solution, it's going to continue being a challenge for both the providers and the clients.

I can suggest that you can try asking for deposits and then see if there's a benefit to your business, or if it's impacted positively or negatively. I see no harm in trying to protect your business as a provider and then seeing if it results in something beneficial to you. There will be clients like me who will skip providers requiring deposits, but there will be some who have no problem with it. As you and others stated, your reputation might help clients feel comfortable providing you with a deposit.

There's no one solution to this on either side. We're all going to do what's best to protect ourselves and our assets.

Best.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

7 minutes ago, Km411 said:

I don’t see why paying a reasonable deposit is controversial. Scammers can be avoided by doing some basic vetting. I’ve paid reasonable deposits, and I’ve paid providers fees for no-shows commensurate with the amount of notice. Just seems courteous. I want to feel good about my experiences, which starts with treating others and their time respectfully. 

Same. I'm always willing to send $25 to lock in an appointment with a new provider. More than that gives me pause, only because I did a larger deposit once and then had to cancel. This was due to a change in business travel beyond my control. I told the provider more than 48 hours in advance that I had to cancel and please return my deposit. He never did, which I've shared here. 

My advice to @Daniel84 is to institute a modest deposit for new clients and see if it hurts your bookings. If it doesn't and decreases your no shows, then it's worth doing. 

[maninsoma]

One of the issues involved that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that if you're talking about a deposit for an escort service, a lot of clients don't want there to be a "paper trail" (well, it would actually be an electronic trail) of them sending money to someone for a service that isn't legal where they live.

[pubic_assistance]

11 hours ago, mike carey said:

Any providers who reluctantly start; know that it's widely seen as a bad idea, so don't need people to tell them again, loudly.

Thank you @mike carey

I hear a voice of reason in this thread from some of the other providers.

You need to learn to "read the room".

Stop the freaks who are sexting with you by insisting a first timer pick up a phone and have a conversation.

I am married with kids myself...so I completely understand discretion. But if a mature adult man hasnt figured out a way to work out his method of discretion around his relationship...then THAT alone is a red flag right there.

@Vin Marco seems to have figured it out and limited his exposure. I suggest his advice be read more than once and some time spent applying it to your own business model. As Mike pointed out..I won't waste time repeating the obvious. Time to move on to LISTENING to the very good advice being given and using it.

Edited December 22, 2024 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[pubic_assistance]

16 minutes ago, maninsoma said:

One of the issues involved that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that if you're talking about a deposit for an escort service, a lot of clients don't want there to be a "paper trail" (well, it would actually be an electronic trail) of them sending money to someone for a service that isn't legal where they live.

[Daniel84]

What stressed me out the most is I am not escorting to padden my pockets and buying expensive cloths ect. My aunt has stage 4 cancer and I am helping my parents with her care. when clients schedule and then do not show up. It isn’t just affecting me it’s affecting the people I care about that I’m trying to help.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

48 minutes ago, maninsoma said:

One of the issues involved that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that if you're talking about a deposit for an escort service, a lot of clients don't want there to be a "paper trail" (well, it would actually be an electronic trail) of them sending money to someone for a service that isn't legal where they live.

I doubt there's a genuine fear about a "paper trail" in terms of legality. People are sending each other money via Venmo, Paypal, etc. for all sorts of things (concert tickets, therapy, personal training, vacation costs). A few hundred dollars isn't going to trigger anything. 

I suspect the real concern is for people who are stepping out on their "monogamous" partner, which is wrong and you shouldn't do.