Deposits and when are they ok to ask for it?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

just please - no *deposits*  

🤣🤣 I agree 💯 I think that belongs in its own subtopic of "taboos" lol 

[+ BobPS]

2 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

💯 @pubic_assistance Good, I'm not the only one that thought that was a high possibility 

No you’re not. The writing styles are very similar.

[JB_Studio38]

7 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

I'm only going to speak on this one time  and one time only, never again. Please be cautious of who you accuse of being privileged in such a way.....  I am Mexican. I am an immigrant from Mexico. I am the son of immigrants. I didn't learn to speak English until I was six years old and being raised here in Southern California I was called "wet back" and "beaner"  more times than I can count. I  grew up a scrappy fighting kid as a result of that bigotry and prejudice ....  Are you meaning to say that my time in the gym ( my entire life ) my education, the way I treat people means nothing?  That it's more your perception of me being subject to some sort of white privilege??? That's utter nonsense! My parents lived on a boat for years and for part of my formative years I lived in a Sāmoan household.... I speak fluent Sāmoan ( ou te iloa gagana Sāmoa!!!!  ) 
Almost on a daily basis I'm asked of what ethnic origin I come from, obviously even strangers don't assume the same white privilege you ask if I'm aware of. I'm not mad, I'm not offended, and I say this all with informative good intentions.

 

 

As I said (that you left out in the part you quoted), “regardless of ACTUAL ethnic background” (if you’re not Black, like dark skinned Black with African American features, you may have privilege by that alone, as it relates to America as a whole especially…ESPECIALLY as it relates to the gay community. that’s a whole other topic). Also notice that I didn’t specifically say that YOU have White privilege, I meant it as a general statement of privilege all together. I’m also aware that in California, especially SoCal: even Hispanic/Latinos experience a different level of privilege. That’s why I posted that article that I did, I hope you did read it? If not, I can easily find another:

In California’s largest race bias cases, Latino workers are accused of abusing Black colleagues

WWW.LATIMES.COM

---

In the last decade, the two largest race discrimination cases brought by the federal government in the...

But, I’m not trying to go down a race debate. I’m just trying to say: acknowledge your privilege, but don’t make assertions that all escorts should be willing to be as care free and rely on clients being reliable as you are. You just happen to be in a different position of privilege. Accept it. Acknowledge it. Don’t assume someone should be open to accepting the same level of risk, who isn’t though. 

The only reason I brung that up is because, you stated a situation that a client canceled on you: and you declined the cancellation fee that HE OFFERED. Which is fine, that’s your call. But what I was trying to say is, another client did the same to me last week and didn’t offer anything. So…I’m just saying you may have been privileged to the fact that A) the client even offered to reimburse you in the first place and B) you didn’t actually need the money to begin with. 
 

All I’m saying is just acknowledge your position of being privileged, versus assuming a rule that should apply to all based on that. It wasn’t a personal attack. I wasn’t trying to make you mad or upset, and you know…I like you because you’re a genuine person. But, the facts are the facts in a situation. I respect your position, but: I don’t think it’s fair for people to start making blanket statements on what an escort should or shouldn’t do based on what’s been successful for you.

For example: when it comes to money upfront, I once met a guy who seemed kinda sketchy. Something was giving me red flags, even though he drove up in a nice Acura SUV and was White. He came into my back room, and when I asked for the funds upfront: he counts out $27. Then he was like: I have to go to the ATM (and it’s 1 in the morning). Never came back. Imagine if I would have f**ked him? That would have been $27 earned. And I HOPE I would be able to message the people on here saying not to ask deposits/get money up front; “hey I just got robbed out of $223 dolllars. Can you send me some money PER your advice not to count the money?” 
 

Another time I had a guy in Sarasota, Florida years ago. I massaged and f**ked the shit (not literally) out of him and we had the best fun. I even drove out to Sarasota from Tampa, and booked a room on my dime (pre-deposit era so to speak lol). Well after we got done, he’s like: “I forgot my wallet in the car”. I was like okay cool, I trust you baby. My door was literally facing his car, as it was one of those outdoor resort hotels. He drives off, and never gave me the money. Couldn’t believe it. We had arranged this for like 2-3 days. 
 

So, all I’m asking is everyone to please stop gaslighting me into believing asking deposits is some sort of downfall move, and I’m doomed to lose business. I’ve spent majority of my years in the industry without deposits, and only within the last 1 to 2 years making it more mandatory with deposits. 2 years ago I brought a new laptop (you can’t build a website with an iPhone) and vowed I would start being more serious and start asking nominal deposits. It’s not like I just rolled outta bed. I put the work into making it happen. I spent like a week learning how to build even a basic website, strategizing how much my deposit should be, and then making sure I know I can LIVE UP TO the commitment of doing so.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[JB_Studio38]

8 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

It doesn’t work in small markets where demand is less and clients don’t want to pay at all. Creating barriers in small markets with people that don’t want to pay, is a recipe for frustration & no money. 

This sounds very contradictory. You’re basically saying it’s better to have less assurance in a market that people don’t want to pay at all, and should therefore not charge deposit (thus increasing their risk of being ghosted/flaked/stiffed/etc.). How does that work? 
 

If anything, it’s places like Kansas City and even big places like Miami and Los Angeles where I’ve actually worked in: that deposits are needed the most. Those bigger markets are even more cut-throat. I would never work in LA again without deposits because, hotels are expensive and traffic/distance are insane. Meanwhile Miami is full of riff raff and I wouldn’t go out my way to see someone without a deposit there either. 

[JB_Studio38]

6 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

How many have you seen ? One ? Two ? Because 90% of the escorts on the planet do NOT ask for deposits.

This is unfounded statement…you know I’m going to call you out on it, right?

 

And then…

[+ purplekow]

37 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

38 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

 

As I said (that you left out in the part you quoted), “regardless of ethnic background”. Also notice that I didn’t specifically say that YOU have White privilege, I meant it as a general statement of privilege all together. I’m also aware that in California, especially SoCal: even Hispanic/Latinos experience a different level of privilege. That’s why I posted that article that I did, I hope you did read it? If not, I can easily find another:

In California’s largest race bias cases, Latino workers are accused of abusing Black colleagues

WWW.LATIMES.COM

---

...

 

 

 

 

So, all I’m asking is everyone to please stop gaslighting me into believing asking deposits is some sort of downfall move, and I’m doomed to lose business. I’ve done majority of my career (since 2008) without deposits, and within the last 3-4 years with deposits. 2 years ago I brought a new laptop (you can’t build a website with an iPhone) and vowed I would start being more serious and start asking nominal deposits. It’s not like I just rolled outta bed. I put the work into making it happen. I spent like a week learning how to build even a basic website, strategizing how much my deposit should be, and then making sure I know I can LIVE UP TO the commitment of doing so.

You know the best way to have people offering you what they feel is good advice that you don't want? Stop trying to convince people they are wrong,  and you are right.  Continue to do what you are doing.  Continue to stew about how it is not working but stop talking about it with the expectation of  a tsunami of support.  You are not going to get it. 

Telling Vin he is privileged, is absolutely correct.  He is privileged to have learned how to promote himself and his business.  He is privileged to be extremely client friendly.  He is privileged to offer a premier service stripped down to the basics.  He is ;privileged in that he goes about his business uncomplainingly and professionally.  He is privileged to know how to keep the small things small.   He is privileged to have a loyal clientele who are loyal because they feel privileged to know him.  

 I have been with him when he was speaking with the owner of a diner.  The owner asked if he was Greek and he said no.  He then asked if he was Brazilian and Vin said no.  The owner then asked, well then what are you.  He said that he was Mexican.  The owner looked disgusted and said OH and ended the conversation.  I was infuriated but he laughed at the ignorance.  He made the small slight stay small.  He prevented the small man from gaining any power over him.  

Keep venting here about these issues if you like, but don't expect the people here to change their minds about this deposit issue.  Don't expect them to kowtow to you request to be leave your posts unanswered.  If you do not want the answers, do not put forth the topic.

BTW, we met in PS and I found you charming and funny and very personable.  Try using those privileges in your business to a greater extent and at some point perhaps you can find some peace in your work.  Good luck to you.  

 

[JB_Studio38]

31 minutes ago, purplekow said:

You know the best way to have people offering you what they feel is good advice that you don't want? Stop trying to convince people they are wrong,  and you are right.  Continue to do what you are doing.  Continue to stew about how it is not working but stop talking about it with the expectation of  a tsunami of support.  You are not going to get it. 

Telling Vin he is privileged, is absolutely correct.  He is privileged to have learned how to promote himself and his business.  He is privileged to be extremely client friendly.  He is privileged to offer a premier service stripped down to the basics.  He is ;privileged in that he goes about his business uncomplainingly and professionally.  He is privileged to know how to keep the small things small.   He is privileged to have a loyal clientele who are loyal because they feel privileged to know him.  

 I have been with him when he was speaking with the owner of a diner.  The owner asked if he was Greek and he said no.  He then asked if he was Brazilian and Vin said no.  The owner then asked, well then what are you.  He said that he was Mexican.  The owner looked disgusted and said OH and ended the conversation.  I was infuriated but he laughed at the ignorance.  He made the small slight stay small.  He prevented the small man from gaining any power over him.  

Keep venting here about these issues if you like, but don't expect the people here to change their minds about this deposit issue.  Don't expect them to kowtow to you request to be leave your posts unanswered.  If you do not want the answers, do not put forth the topic.

BTW, we met in PS and I found you charming and funny and very personable.  Try using those privileges in your business to a greater extent and at some point perhaps you can find some peace in your work.  Good luck to you.

With all due respect: I’m not trying to convince anyone they are wrong. I feel you’re taking it as a personal attack on @Vin_Marco versus seeing it from the perspective I’m making: Some people may not wish to take deposits, others may feel a need to. 
 

All I’m reading on this thread, is people saying they don’t want to pay deposits/don’t believe in it/do great without it. But I’m not seeing much in the way of acknowledging people who are asking for deposits and the reason they are.

Personally, I’m not interested in hearing someone’s experience at a restaurant or childhood experiences AS IT RELATES to the privilege I refer to in this topic. I do acknowledge and empathize with the ignorance of those experiences on a personal level, but overall it’s irrelevant to this topic about clients and deposits/cancel fee. I know that’s unpleasant and unacceptable to deal with that, but it has nothing to do at all with the privilege I’m referring to when it comes down to taking/not taking deposits.

And you could say I’m privileged too because I’m sure I’ve put in the same level of effort as @Vin_Marcoor @Jamie21has; but Vin and Jamie are in completely different regions, different backgrounds from me. Their experiences versus mine shouldn’t be compared to make a suggestion on how I or any other providers should run their ship 🚢 

And as I have said to someone previously: it’s not a matter of me asking deposits “not working”. So please don’t take my posts out of context to fuel a preference you may have. Deposits ARE WORKING for me, but I can’t control the fact that inflation and living in a market where most of the gays/bi curious frequent Grindr and/or don’t have the budget.

I’m trying to fix that by year end, and that’s already in the making.

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[SouthOfTheBorder]

6 minutes ago, purplekow said:

He prevented the small man from gaining any power over him.  

very wise.  
when I react to something beyond my control, regardless of right or wrong - I’ve given up my power.  and you’re right - it’s the small daily frustrations w people, places & things that in the big picture don’t mean much.  that doesn’t mean I’m a doormat & sometimes push-back is required, depending on circumstances.  the response, if any, should be measured and not escalate a benign situation.  Not reacting in the moment definitely helps. 
I find myself asking, will I see this person ever again & does it matter ?  usually it’s a no. and if it’s a no, then walking away is the best move.  

[JB_Studio38]

Ha, how funny! I was just browsing elsewhere and found this newspaper ad from Miami male escort service. Sounds like male escorts were getting deposits as early as 1937. So…now the answer is official, PAY YOUR DEPOSIT LADIES. Case closed 😂 

“Before the escort meets his lady, she pays the fee in advance”.

…no comment on the rate part. Obviously different era, different paradigm. 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[+ nycman]

[Guest]

As Thomas Paine famously said, "To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead" 

 

@Jarrod_Uncut I, like Doc, sat next to you at dinner at the annual forum gathering dinner and also thought you were lovely and friendly. I've said it before, you have loads of energy, energy I believe is being misused,  you have the energy to argue with loads and loads of people who've offered sincere and sound advice yet you seem to retort with why everyone is wrong and you are correct. Unlike you, I refuse to expend anymore energy where it's being wasted. You are also wrongly assuming that much of my "success " or @Jamie21 "success" is only because of where we live.... I'm not even going to call it success instead I'm going to call it our ability to be probably be  as busy as we want to be. I have had" colleagues" who lived and live in "Anytown USA" who are INCREDIBLY successful... it's not "survival of the fittest" that only survive, it's the ones most wiling to adapt and who have the ability to change ... these people have modified travel schedules that make living where they live immaterial to where they call home and actually prefer home to be as far as possible from "the biz" i suspect thats what makes home really "home" for them. 
I've only been back on the forum for 4 months and I've only read posts where you do not much else but complain, complain, and complain ( I doubt many here will disagree with me on that ) and after all you've said, even what could be perceived as an insult to me, believe it or not Jarrod, I still want to see you win, succeed and be happy. 
 

* citing something obscure from 1937 isn't a very convincing argument. I can compromise a very long list of things that were going on in 1937 that were and are mother-loads of bad ideas. By the way, do want to swap out the ratio of how often women hire vs how often men hire too... that's also a key component of the ad you cited..... 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Vin_Marco

[+ BobPS]

17 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

I will @Jamie21 let me think about it for a night.... it will informative, funny, and one that loads of people can contribute and participate in 😊

I’m envisioning it as an etiquette book for hiring. You can show us your Emily Post  side.😜

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, BobPS said:

I’m envisioning it as an etiquette book for hiring. You can show us your Emily Post  side.😜

It's a brilliant idea and one I welcome! The longer I buzz around the more I realize one is needed for both sides lol   
What the phuck happened to social graces??? 😜

Edited November 21, 2023 by Vin_Marco

[MikeBiDude]

9 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Case closed

Woo-hoo!

[Rudynate]

On 11/20/2023 at 5:21 AM, myophile said:

In the five or so years I’ve been doing this, out of the two dozen or so guys I’ve hired, I have only been asked for a deposit maybe three times, and the only one I actually paid was to a provider making a special trip from another city  — and that was possibly the best money I’ve ever spent on this hobby (IFBB pro bodybuilder, unexpectedly eager to have me fuck him, YEEHAW!!!)

I've been asked once.  I wanted him to meet me in LV and it involved a longish drive for him so he said I would need to pay a deposit.  I said "sure, how do you want to handle payment?"  He decided he didn't need the deposit.   I was there for a show - normally my husband helps me shave night before a show, but he hasn't been willing to travel since the pandemic, so I hired this muscleman to come and help me shave - It turned into a lot more than helping me shave.  Great fun!!  Those last couple days before a show, your appearance changes drastically and he said my my vacularity was changing even as he was shaving me.  

[Rudynate]

20 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

I'm only going to speak on this one time  and one time only, never again. Please be cautious of who you accuse of being privileged in such a way.....  I am Mexican. I am an immigrant from Mexico. I am the son of immigrants. I didn't learn to speak English until I was six years old and being raised here in Southern California I was called "wet back" and "beaner"  more times than I can count. I  grew up a scrappy fighting kid as a result of that bigotry and prejudice ....  Are you meaning to say that my time in the gym ( my entire life ) my education, the way I treat people means nothing?  That it's more your perception of me being subject to some sort of white privilege??? That's utter nonsense! My parents lived on a boat for years and for part of my formative years I lived in a Sāmoan household.... I speak fluent Sāmoan ( ou te iloa gagana Sāmoa!!!!  ) 
Almost on a daily basis I'm asked of what ethnic origin I come from, obviously even strangers don't assume the same white privilege you ask if I'm aware of. I'm not mad, I'm not offended, and I say this all with informative good intentions. 

 

IMG_9586.mov 17.23 MB · 2 downloads

 

 

Love those Pacific Islander hunks!!

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

Love those Pacific Islander hunks!!

The fella that I'm taking a photo with is a long time friend... he's a outrigger canoe paddling champion  🏆 

[+ nycman]

11 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Case closed

[Rudynate]

16 minutes ago, Vin_Marco said:

The fella that I'm taking a photo with is a long time friend... he's a outrigger canoe paddling champion  🏆 

They really make me swoon.  One of my gym buddies is a Samoan daddy covered with Samoan tattoos  - the genuine article. 

[Marc in Calif]

12 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

I’m trying to fix that by year end, and that’s already in the making.

If you took all the hours you spend posting and responding on these forums and applied them to growing and maintaining a successful business, well --- you wouldn't be such a complainer, would you?

Why not try it for a month? 💡

[JB_Studio38]

4 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

As Thomas Paine famously said, "To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead" 

 

@Jarrod_Uncut I, like Doc, sat next to you at dinner at the annual forum gathering dinner and also thought you were lovely and friendly. I've said it before, you have loads of energy, energy I believe is being misused,  you have the energy to argue with loads and loads of people who've offered sincere and sound advice yet you seem to retort with why everyone is wrong and you are correct. Unlike you, I refuse to expend anymore energy where it's being wasted. You are also wrongly assuming that much of my "success " or @Jamie21 "success" is only because of where we live.... I'm not even going to call it success instead I'm going to call it our ability to be probably be  as busy as we want to be. I have had" colleagues" who lived and live in "Anytown USA" who are INCREDIBLY successful... it's not "survival of the fittest" that only survive, it's the ones most wiling to adapt and who have the ability to change ... these people have modified travel schedules that make living where they live immaterial to where they call home and actually prefer home to be as far as possible from "the biz" i suspect thats what makes home really "home" for them. 
I've only been back on the forum for 4 months and I've only read posts where you do not much else but complain, complain, and complain ( I doubt many here will disagree with me on that ) and after all you've said, even what could be perceived as an insult to me, believe it or not Jarrod, I still want to see you win, succeed and be happy. 
 

* citing something obscure from 1937 isn't a very convincing argument. I can compromise a very long list of things that were going on in 1937 that were and are mother-loads of bad ideas. By the way, do want to swap out the ratio of how often women hire vs how often men hire too... that's also a key component of the ad you cited..... 

I appreciate you recognizing my demeanor and persona. And, the newspaper clip was more for humor and reference. I wasn’t trying to use that as an answer to the topic of this thread.

I feel though this conversation has gone beyond deposits, and has now turned into something bigger than what it should be. Being that this isn’t a thread I made, I don’t feel I should be the target of what I talk about on the forum. It doesn’t have to go to that level I’m just specifically talking about deposits, and simply giving my opinion about why I as a provider ask for them. However, all I’ve read you say so far is: “I don’t have a problem without them, I don’t need them, I don’t feel it’s the right thing to do, etc.” And fair enough that’s your personal decision.  

The part that I feel you’re being a bit insensitive, is when it’s then implied that because YOU don’t have to do it, then I should also not do the same: and then comes along  @purplekow trying to imply and gaslight that somehow I don’t know what I’m doing, despite it being something I KNOW works better for me. That’s not necessary. No one has to tell me, “you’re not busy because you charge deposits”. That’s basically what I’m hearing. That’s not true. There’s more variables behind that than just a deposit. And I’ve posted elsewhere from other people saying the same thing about their level of business. Why is it so difficult for people to accept what others are saying, instead of making it a deal about a few people being the exception? 
 

My question to you Vin specifically: because I know you’ve said it somewhere and I quote: “I don’t stay in hotels much these days” And from what it sounds like (correct me if I’m wrong), you are doing a lot of Outcalls, right? So…how would you feel if instead, you had to host clients in hotels…in addition to traveling to San Diego, Los Angeles, Palm Springs etc.

How would you feel if you had to pay out of pocket upfront for that expense, with the possibility a client may cancel? Because in my case, in my area and many I travel to: clients tend to usually need me to host. Especially in Kansas City, idk if you ever been out this way: 99% of clients in this area can’t host. The only ones who can host, are usually staying in a hotel. So I’m always in a position to drive up, book a room, etc.

There is one client on this forum who booked me here and did something very kind: he booked the hotel AND prepaid me my session before we met. I couldn’t have asked for a better scenario, but I don’t even expect that usually. I usually just get deposit, measly $50/$100…not a million dollars, and then book the room and get the rest in person. Easy/Peasy.

I don’t feel it’s nothing to be arguing with me about, or for others to come and make snide comments and try to paint me as being some kind of con artist or person who isn’t busy because he chooses to use a little common sense. 
 

I know this is WAAAAAYYYY more explaining and defending than what’s required or even needed, and I’m going to wrap it up soon because the holiday is in a couple days: But I’m just willing to stand by and make sense to people because…nobody should have a 1 size answer fits all when it comes to deposits. People have to be willing to respect an individual providers preference…at least here on the forum because, people read things here. 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

They really make me swoon.  One of my gym buddies is a Samoan daddy covered with Samoan tattoos  - the genuine article. 

It would be a pity if he didn't speak Sāmoan. Ask him if he does ( I know we're kind of getting off topic but at least it's on a positive note 😂 )

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

My question to you Vin specifically: because I know you’ve said it somewhere and I quote: “I don’t stay in hotels much these days” And from what it sounds like (correct me if I’m wrong), you are doing a lot of Outcalls, right? So…how would you feel if instead, you had to host clients in hotels…in addition to traveling to San Diego, Los Angeles, Palm Springs etc.

Been there, done that and always with a smile on my face. I still stay in hotels in certain cities. Between putting FLAKES in a box, using my intuition, NOT requiring deposits I've NEVER had any issues filling my schedule in or out of hotels. My current operation is all by design, I've created the business model I utilize....most of all,  I LISTENED to people who had sound advice to offer.... I didn't land here overnight, I paid my dues in that I saw people I had to versus now.... seeing only people that I truly and genuinely enjoy being with.... and figured it out ( what works for me ) relatively early on and what keeps me happy and the people I see happy. I am going to say it to you for the last time..... I hope you find happiness, a way to make what you do fun, fulfilling, and financially rewarding. ✌🏽 

[JB_Studio38]

42 minutes ago, Vin_Marco said:

Been there, done that and always with a smile on my face. I still stay in hotels in certain cities. Between putting FLAKES in a box, using my intuition, NOT requiring deposits I've NEVER had any issues filling my schedule in or out of hotels. My current operation is all by design, I've created the business model I utilize....most of all,  I LISTENED to people who had sound advice to offer.... I didn't land here overnight, I paid my dues in that I saw people I had to versus now.... seeing only people that I truly and genuinely enjoy being with.... and figured it out ( what works for me ) relatively early on and what keeps me happy and the people I see happy. I am going to say it to you for the last time..... I hope you find happiness, a way to make what you do fun, fulfilling, and financially rewarding. ✌🏽 

Thanks much, I’m glad it’s working for you. Pass it along. And I’ll continue to stay true to what I feel is  best and sensible for me as well…even if it doesn’t align with what others may believe or have experienced. Because at the end of the day, I know what I’ve experienced and how I’ve been able to create better ones with less regret and stress, no matter how much I may need the business.

I like the putting flakes in a box 📦 emphasis 😆 

 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

It's a brilliant idea and one I welcome! The longer I buzz around the more I realize one is needed for both sides lol   
What the phuck happened to social graces??? 😜

I can’t wait for this!