Are you "gay"? Are you "queer"? What the hell are you?!

[marylander1940]

Back to subject! 

I'm gay!

 

[Marc in Calif]

58 minutes ago, wsc said:

"F-got," in earlier and traditional British usage, referred to a bundle of sticks or twigs set on fire to supply heat or light. The word was later applied to cigarettes as they, too, were set on fire. Then homosexual people (practically exclusively male) were called by the name by those bible-loving, people-hating religious intolerants because they believed the "f-gs" should -and one day, would- be set on fire in the depths of hell as punishment for their gross depravity. 

In one paragraph you're conflating British and American usage. The specifically bigoted "homosexual" usage (third sentence) was chiefly American rather than British. 

In Britain, a "f  a g" was a junior student who served an older student:

Fa g ging was a traditional practice in British public schools and also at many other boarding schools, whereby younger pupils were required to act as personal servants to the eldest boys. Although probably originating earlier, the first accounts of fa- g-ging appeared in the late 17th century. Fa g ging sometimes involved physical abuse and/or sexual abuse. Although lessening in severity over the centuries, the practice continued in some institutions until the end of the 20th century.

And let's not forget that the bassoon is still called fa- g otto (Italian), fa- got (French, Spanish, etc.), and Fa- gott (German). It's a bundle of "sticks" of wood. 

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Charlie said:

"F-g" unfortunately cannot escape its historic British usage as a label for an inferior male whose purpose is to serve a superior male. It's not an ID I would embrace.

I thought the word meant something completely different in the UK...

[Guest]

7 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Have you really ?

It's still an insult.

So how did y'all "take ownership"?

Both "f***ot" and "qu**r" are still pejorative and meant to make someone feel bad about themselves. I refuse to accept these words simply because I am not a mainstreamer. Pretending to embrace it doesn't make you have ownership. It makes you a sucker for punishment.

Because we're not pretending to embrace it. We're embracing and owning the word. If someone calls another queer, he can now say "That's right!". 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

My family is a mix of Pennsylvania Deitsch, English Quaker and Iroquois Tribespeople...

I've always preferred mixed genetics. Mixing the genes up dilutes recessive genes and leads to sturdier people.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

... It's a bundle of "sticks" of wood. 

You got that right. You can buy some at Ikea. 

[Thelatin]

Every time I walk into a room I tell everyone I’m queer.  It’s extremely important that everyone knows.  

[jeezifonly]

Strictly speaking, the only person who needs to know how I identify my sexuality is attached to the dick that’s in my mouth… by then, it’s pretty clear. 
 

[+ Cash4Trash]

Having grown up in the south in the 50's I'm neither gay nor queer, I'm "cultured". The euphemism used when questioning a males sexual preference. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by Cash4Trash

[pubic_assistance]

21 minutes ago, Cash4Trash said:

 I'm "cultured".

Reminds me of the old "confirmed bachelor" moniker.

Both matched with intention instead of failure.

[mike carey]

14 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Reminds me of the old "confirmed bachelor" moniker.

Both matched with intention instead of failure.

Or 'not the marrying kind'.

[soloyo215]

21 hours ago, Danny-Darko said:

For a "community" that came out with the cliché about labels like "Labels of for clothes" and "I'm not into labels" etc... they sure love to label themselves and everybody else putting them in to categories, groups and sub-groups. And judging those of us that don't agree with their classifications and labels of us as "delusional" or "in denial". The older I've gotten the less I find anything in common with this so called "community" and the more marginalized I've felt by this "community" that prides itself on embracing "everybody". 

They don't embrace everybody. In my city they completely dismantled Gay Pride allegedly because it wasn't inclusive. In the following years they had this unadvertised, poorly attended flock of disorderly people who do absolutely nothing but walking around being obnoxious to passersby, and they called that "Pride". They advertised that in the planning of the new Pride events, certain racial minority group was to be "first and center, prominently featured" in the parade, parade that never happened, anyway. The committee that was organizing that other "Pride Event" didn't even want to reach out to the people who had the connections or contacts in the city. Some inclusion! With all the issues that the previous Gay Pride had (let's not be naive) still we had the city mayor, the police and other influential organizations in the city participating. Now it's just a bunch of kids running around like an unatended Kindergarten.

I also see the same disruptive effect even in the media that once was dedicated to the entire community. I see editorials that had derogatory words towards the older generation of the LGBT. "Eff you if you don't like us", or something to that effect. That was form a once award-winning newspaper for the community. All in all, there's always been bickering and disagreement in this "community", but what I see today is more than that, it falls into extremism, the same attitude and culture of the religious right, only with a different theme.

[Danny-Darko]

1 hour ago, soloyo215 said:

They don't embrace everybody. In my city they completely dismantled Gay Pride allegedly because it wasn't inclusive. In the following years they had this unadvertised, poorly attended flock of disorderly people who do absolutely nothing but walking around being obnoxious to passersby, and they called that "Pride". They advertised that in the planning of the new Pride events, certain racial minority group was to be "first and center, prominently featured" in the parade, parade that never happened, anyway. The committee that was organizing that other "Pride Event" didn't even want to reach out to the people who had the connections or contacts in the city. Some inclusion! With all the issues that the previous Gay Pride had (let's not be naive) still we had the city mayor, the police and other influential organizations in the city participating. Now it's just a bunch of kids running around like an unatended Kindergarten.

I also see the same disruptive effect even in the media that once was dedicated to the entire community. I see editorials that had derogatory words towards the older generation of the LGBT. "Eff you if you don't like us", or something to that effect. That was form a once award-winning newspaper for the community. All in all, there's always been bickering and disagreement in this "community", but what I see today is more than that, it falls into extremism, the same attitude and culture of the religious right, only with a different theme.

Oh I agree that they don't embrace everybody, that's why I put it in "quotations". While claiming to embrace everybody they are very exclusionary! 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

On 10/13/2023 at 11:28 PM, Brak said:

Recently I got into a lengthy argument with a straight friend who couldn’t fathom why “cocksucker” was a homophobic insult.

I like "cocksucker" it better than "queer".  Cocksucker sounds like an accomplishment.  Queer means strange, odd, abnormal.

[Danny-Darko]

2 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

I like "cocksucker" it better than "queer".  Cocksucker sounds like an accomplishment.  Queer means strange, odd, abnormal.

Agree, but believe it or not, not all men who have sex with other men suck cock! I have known quite a few suckees that don't reciprocate and that was fine with me!   

[mike carey]

Gentlemen, while a discussion of whether to use the word 'faggot' loosely fits into this thread on whether we call ourselves gay or queer, the origins of that word do not. We know one of its usages is about gay men but that's the end of that discussion, but there could be scope for a thread to discuss the issue in its own right.

Some posts have been removed where they clearly crossed that line. Please keep this thread on topic.

[Rudynate]

I used to say that I was gay - but I'm finding I don't like to label myself anymore.  It hardly ever comes up here in the Bay area, because same-sex attraction is so commonplace and widely accepted, but if I do have reason to say "what" I am, I say that I'm "into men."  That really says everything that needs to be said.  

[wsc]

23 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

In one paragraph you're conflating British and American usage. The specifically bigoted "homosexual" usage (third sentence) was chiefly American rather than British. 

In Britain, a "f  a g" was a junior student who served an older student:

Fa g ging was a traditional practice in British public schools and also at many other boarding schools, whereby younger pupils were required to act as personal servants to the eldest boys. Although probably originating earlier, the first accounts of fa- g-ging appeared in the late 17th century. Fa g ging sometimes involved physical abuse and/or sexual abuse. Although lessening in severity over the centuries, the practice continued in some institutions until the end of the 20th century.

And let's not forget that the bassoon is still called fa- g otto (Italian), fa- got (French, Spanish, etc.), and Fa- gott (German). It's a bundle of "sticks" of wood. 

 

 

I appreciate the instruction. Sometimes my aging brain makes connections with the wrong data points.

[wsc]

4 hours ago, mike carey said:

Or 'not the marrying kind'.

Or as I have said on occasion, "I prefer my women a little taller and with broader shoulders and a bigger d*ck."

[jeezifonly]

2 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

I like "cocksucker" it better than "queer".  Cocksucker sounds like an accomplishment.  Queer means strange, odd, abnormal.

Cocksucker can apply to male or female, right? It can apply regardless of proficiency, willingness, or level of enjoyment, right?

Where’s the insult? 

[Brak]

The insult comes in that I've never heard a woman called a cocksucker as an insult, I've heard it lobbed at men all the time. 

[KrisParr]

I came out to my parents and older brothers as gay when I was 19 after a semester of college. Their reaction was something, like, “oh, Kris, we’ve known for years. So where do you want to go for dinner?”
 

It was (and continues to be) a non-issue. Not much later, my uppity aunt asked my mom if I was gay. Her reply was, “oh, that? Yes, he is , but I’m concerned that he’s thinking of leaving Catholicism and becoming a Lutheran”

[Guest]

1 hour ago, KrisParr said:

... “oh, Kris, we’ve known for years..”

 

😁

But seriously, congratulations, and thank God you have such an accepting family. 👍🏼

I reckon' that if I had to be Christian, Lutheranism seems to be the most rational (if religion can ever be called rational). 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Unicorn

[CuriousByNature]

17 hours ago, Cash4Trash said:

 I'm "cultured". 

You're sure you're not talking about your yogurt?

[pubic_assistance]

11 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I reckon' that if I had to be Christian, Lutheranism seems to be the most rational

As a person raised in the Lutheran Church, I second that opinion. Light on the guilt / heavy on the celebration.

My family never once gave me a drop of guilt about anyone I was seeing. ( or at least those who I introduced to them ).

From gay men to black women, there was never any judgement. Including the old grandmothers and aunties.

I my mid twenties, I met an Italian guy and fell in love, I self identified as "gay" at that time. It never bothered me, and I was perfectly comfortable with people saying I was gay. Although, it's not exactly a clear definition of my sexuality, I was fine with wearing that badge. "Queer", however, is offensive I and I am saddened that young people who don't identify, sexually with mainstream people have embraced such a horrible term.  There are enough people on this planet who aren't hetero-normative, that they should  not feel the need to identify as strange, or bizarre.