Are you "gay"? Are you "queer"? What the hell are you?!

[Brak]

Recently I got into a lengthy argument with a straight friend who couldn’t fathom why “cocksucker” was a homophobic insult.

[+ glycine]

I'm one of those that got called a gay fggot before I literally knew what sex or sexuality or gay or straight even WERE lmao so I definitely had a good while really exploring that question; I went from straight to bi to gay to queer, and THEN gender became the topic and I went from man to non-binary to "non-binary man" lmaoooo

but most recent fantasies have been about like finding long term doms into chastity/trans women who I like enough to get a full sex change lmao so WHO KNOWS. I'm at the point where all I know is I'm not a straight man lol 

[wsc]

11 hours ago, Lucky said:

Gay here. I hate it when I see newspapers use "queer" as an accepted word.

One website that I use has expanded the LGBT acronym to LGBTQIAP+ 

Where does it stop?

Where indeed? My view of this expanded rainbow of initials has been that if you need that many letters to define you, maybe you don't have a clear idea of who you are. Or want to be. The label is getting so inclusive, maybe we should just use HOMO, as in Homo Sapiens. (Yes, I know; different derivations, one from the Greek, the other from Latin. But still ...)

But as a concession to ordinary usage, gay is probably the more universally recognized term today and, for me, as good a fit as any other. (Although I do lament that any label that unites members of one group also instantly divides them from others. Sorry. It's too late at night to be so philosophical. Bonne Nuit.)

[pubic_assistance]

10 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I'm proud that we've taken ownership/control of this word. 

Have you really ?

It's still an insult.

So how did y'all "take ownership"?

Both "f***ot" and "qu**r" are still pejorative and meant to make someone feel bad about themselves. I refuse to accept these words simply because I am not a mainstreamer. Pretending to embrace it doesn't make you have ownership. It makes you a sucker for punishment.

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

5 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Have you really ?

It's still an insult.

So how did y'all "take ownership"?

Both "f***ot" and "qu**r" are still pejorative and meant to make someone feel bad about themselves. I refuse to accept these words simply because I am not a mainstreamer. Pretending to embrace it doesn't make you have ownership. It makes you a sucker for punishment.

 

"gay" is also used as an insult by many. Teens (at least in DC) use it as a pejorative adjective to describe anything and anyone they do not like.

[pubic_assistance]

10 hours ago, Unicorn said:

You're Amish? 😲

My family is a mix of Pennsylvania Deitsch, English Quaker and Iroquois Tribespeople.

But we mostly identified, communicated and celebrated as Pennsylvania Deitsch.

The "Amish" are a religious extremist subset of PA Deitsch. (The people you see at the tourist-trap "Amish Markets" are actually Mennonites). So in PA- the Amish are PA Deitsch but most PA Deitsch aren't Amish.

 

[+ nycman]

30 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

It makes you a sucker for punishment.

Baby, it’s just a word.

I feel a song coming on….

 

[pubic_assistance]

36 minutes ago, nycman said:

Baby, it’s just a word.

Is it ?

Then why can't you even type it in full on the site ?

Clearly there is more power behind those words than the words "celery" or "cabbage".

[+ Pensant]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

My family is a mix of Pennsylvania Deitsch, English Quaker and Iroquois Tribespeople.

But we mostly identified, communicated and celebrated as Pennsylvania Deitsch.

The "Amish" are a religious extremist subset of PA Deitsch. (The people you see at the tourist-trap "Amish Markets" are actually Mennonites). So in PA- the Amish are PA Deitsch but most PA Deitsch aren't Amish.

 

PA Germans (aka Dutch) also included Lutherans, German Reformed and the former Evangelical United Brethren, now part of the United Methodist Church, in addition to the Mennonites, Brethren and Amish. One might also include some of the smaller denominations like the Moravians and the Schwenkfelders. I’m half Pennsylvania German and grew up among them.

 

[pubic_assistance]

11 minutes ago, Pensant said:

PA Germans (aka Dutch) also included Lutherans, German Reformed and the former Evangelical United Brethren

 

Yup.

Where I grew up most of us were either Lutheran or Bretheren (or both).

Amish and Mennonite are Anabaptist.

 

[+ poolboy48220]

I did like when Firefly used "sly"...

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/243dae6c-105d-4282-b594-b130b5fc0ee2

[soloyo215]

18 hours ago, Lucky said:

Gay here. I hate it when I see newspapers use "queer" as an accepted word.

One website that I use has expanded the LGBT acronym to LGBTQIAP+ 

Where does it stop?

I saw the acronym now including numbers I saw a 2 and 4 included in the acronym. It's ridiculous. Funny thing is that it gets more and more divided and consequently divisive, which doesn't clarify what the end game is supposed to be.

I hate the term queer, I dispise it in fact. Don't care for it much. It's common, accepted and used as a replacement for "gay". Apparently the rationale behind it is that "gay" is supposed to refer only to gay men (not sure when that happened). The way I see it is that extremism is present in every aspect of society, and the way things seem to be going are towards extremism in the community (I use the term "community" losely). For example, the UK now has a "National Pronouns Day". At first I thought that was a joke, then I thought that it was sponsored by Sesame Street, but no. They have a day to celebrate pronouns, whatever that means, not sure what is that supposed to accomplish or how different that is supposed to be from any other event.

Extremism seems to be taking over, and I don't care much for it. Growing up, I never let my homophobic family, school, community, or church define me or tell me what label I should wear. I'm not letting the LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ, or whatever they keep adding, do that either. I say who and what I am, and I decide what my community is and isn't, nobody else.

I stopped paying attention to all of it. It's all extremist nonsense to me.

[+ Charlie]

"F-g" unfortunately cannot escape its historic British usage as a label for an inferior male whose purpose is to serve a superior male. It's not an ID I would embrace.

[Act25]

9 hours ago, Brak said:

If someone wanted to lob an insult at a gay guy it would have been “f*g” or “homo” not “queer”

In my high school (suburban Seattle, 70's) they were used was used as a general insult whether you were gay, suspected gay or if someone just didn't like you.  

I identify as gay and queer doesn't bother me.  

[pubic_assistance]

2 hours ago, soloyo215 said:

I stopped paying attention to all of it. It's all extremist nonsense to me.

Bravo.

I completely agree.

It's all divide and conquer strategy.

Calling yourself "Queer" is reminding yourself daily that you don't fit in.

How humiliating.

[+ Charlie]

Just now, pubic_assistance said:

Bravo.

I completely agree.

It's all divide and conquer strategy.

Calling yourself "Queer" is reminding yourself daily that you don't fit in.

How humiliating.

Well, some people are proud of "not fitting in." That's another topic altogether.

[pubic_assistance]

25 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Well, some people are proud of "not fitting in." That's another topic altogether.

"Fitting in" doesn't require complete submission to the predominant culture.

When I was a kid growing up in Central PA we were all American first and your individuality was second.

Things like homosexuality and cross dressing were verboten in the 70s. But now you find gay couples mixing in with everyone else. Fitting in is no longer an issue. 

But now we take that word "queer" and drag in every other marginalized group while losing the progress for respect that gay and bisexual people have worked so hard for.

Edited October 14, 2023 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[Danny-Darko]

2 hours ago, soloyo215 said:

I saw the acronym now including numbers I saw a 2 and 4 included in the acronym. It's ridiculous. Funny thing is that it gets more and more divided and consequently divisive, which doesn't clarify what the end game is supposed to be.

I hate the term queer, I dispise it in fact. Don't care for it much. It's common, accepted and used as a replacement for "gay". Apparently the rationale behind it is that "gay" is supposed to refer only to gay men (not sure when that happened). The way I see it is that extremism is present in every aspect of society, and the way things seem to be going are towards extremism in the community (I use the term "community" losely). For example, the UK now has a "National Pronouns Day". At first I thought that was a joke, then I thought that it was sponsored by Sesame Street, but no. They have a day to celebrate pronouns, whatever that means, not sure what is that supposed to accomplish or how different that is supposed to be from any other event.

Extremism seems to be taking over, and I don't care much for it. Growing up, I never let my homophobic family, school, community, or church define me or tell me what label I should wear. I'm not letting the LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ, or whatever they keep adding, do that either. I say who and what I am, and I decide what my community is and isn't, nobody else.

I stopped paying attention to all of it. It's all extremist nonsense to me.

For a "community" that came out with the cliché about labels like "Labels of for clothes" and "I'm not into labels" etc... they sure love to label themselves and everybody else putting them in to categories, groups and sub-groups. And judging those of us that don't agree with their classifications and labels of us as "delusional" or "in denial". The older I've gotten the less I find anything in common with this so called "community" and the more marginalized I've felt by this "community" that prides itself on embracing "everybody". 

[+ Charlie]

 

7 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

"Fitting in" doesn't require complete submission to the predominant culture.

When I was a kid growing up in Cengral PA we were all American first and your individuality was second.

Things like homosexuality and cross dressing were verboten in the 70s. But now you find gay couples mixing in with everyone else. Fitting in is no longer an issue. 

But now we take that word "queer" and drag in every other marginalized group while losing the progress for respect that gay and bisexual people have worked so hard for.

Some of us think of the 60s and 70s as an era of rebellion against the status quo. Many want recognition for being different as well as acceptance.

[pubic_assistance]

5 minutes ago, Charlie said:

 

Some of us think of the 60s and 70s as an era of rebellion against the status quo. Many want recognition for being different as well as acceptance.

I do believe anyone who lived through the 50's would view American culture as too monolithic and I also agree it was so. Sadly your choices were to play along or "leave the room".

Those cultural battles of the 60's and 70's created a more pluralistic society. Thus expanding the size of that "room" so much that we can all stand in it without annoying each other. So no reason NOW to feel so "queer" that you're not welcome.

[wsc]

28 minutes ago, Charlie said:

"F-g" unfortunately cannot escape its historic British usage as a label for an inferior male whose purpose is to serve a superior male. It's not an ID I would embrace.

"F-got," in earlier and traditional British usage, referred to a bundle of sticks or twigs set on fire to supply heat or light. The word was later applied to cigarettes as they, too, were set on fire. Then homosexual people (practically exclusively male) were called by the name by those bible-loving, people-hating religious intolerants because they believed the "f-gs" should -and one day, would- be set on fire in the depths of hell as punishment for their gross depravity. 

[+ Charlie]

2 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

I do believe anyone who lived through the 50's would view American culture as too monolithic and I also agree it was so. Sadly your choices were to play along or "leave the room".

Those cultural battles of the 60's and 70's created a more pluralistic society. Thus expanding the size of that "room" so much that we can all stand in it without annoying each other. So no reason NOW to feel so "queer" that you're not welcome.

But some people--particularly when young--like the role of rebel outsider and want to be recognized as such. I think calling oneself "queer" is part of that.

[wsc]

Gore Vidal was asked what is a "f-g." His answer: "A 'f-g' is the homosexual gentleman who just left the room."

White Southerners would at least sometimes call you "n-gg-r" to your face. Sexual bigots would only call you "f-got" when you were on the floor getting the sh-t kicked out of you.

Clearly, we can sometimes be a disgusting species.

[pubic_assistance]

22 minutes ago, Charlie said:

But some people--particularly when young--like the role of rebel outsider and want to be recognized as such. I think calling oneself "queer" is part of that.

I agree that young people often struggle to "fit in" and respond in their failure with rebellion.

But calling yourself "queer" isn't a rebellion it's accepting your failure. Not as someone who doesn't WANT to fit in...but as someone who CAN'T.

[marylander1940]

17 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

I agree that young people often struggle to "fit in" and respond in their failure with rebellion.

But calling yourself "queer" isn't a rebellion it's accepting your failure. Not as someone who doesn't WANT to fit in...but as someone who CAN'T.

To each his own...

Words evolve, I've never called myself queer but some do like to call themselves that way. 

58 minutes ago, Charlie said:

 

Some of us think of the 60s and 70s as an era of rebellion against the status quo. Many want recognition for being different as well as acceptance.

The sexual revolution was one of the most important things that happened in that period and affected our public and even private lives!