Titanic Submarine Situation

[LostUpstate]

10 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

The same arrogance that sunk the Titanic took 5 more victims! 

There's a reason why planes nowadays are built out of metal and not fabric and wood like a biplane. 

Cheap submersible don't last!

Will this incident affect other industries trying to save money using other materials?

Why The Boeing 787 & Airbus A350 Are Built With Composite Materials

SIMPLEFLYING.COM

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The pair of widebodies utilize composites in their build.

 

Fortunately, in the aviation industry and for the traveling public, composites are safe in aircraft. The composites in the submersible most likely gave way to the sheer weight of the water at 13,000 below sea level. The B787 and A350 don’t have weight like that imposed on the fuselage in flight. The 787 has 15% humidity in the cabin instead of 4% as on previous aircraft, so you feel much better and less tired on long haul flights. The composites allow for a higher humidity level in the cabin because they don’t corrode like aluminum. Also, the 787 has a lower cabin altitude than previous models like the 777, so it’s less of a strain on the body. 

Carbon fiber composites have been also used on older models but not in as many parts as the 787. The 757 and 767, Boeing aircraft developed in the 1980s, had composite vertical stabilizers and they flew for years without problems. 

[Quincy_7]

The US navy knew about the implosion on Monday but kept silent while a wild goose chase was underway. I think it's a bit extreme to buy into the conspiracy theory that this was a deflection from the Hunter Biden story but it's nonetheless a question worth asking, why the silence if you knew since Monday that everyone was dead?

Edited June 24, 2023 by Quincy_7

[mike carey]

57 minutes ago, Quincy_7 said:

The US navy knew about the implosion on Monday but kept silent while a wild goose chase was underway. I think it's a bit extreme to buy into the conspiracy theory that this was a deflection from the Hunter Biden story but it's nonetheless a question worth asking, why the silence if you knew since Monday that everyone was dead?

I'd say more than 'a bit extreme', rather that the conspiracy theory is a calculated and wilful misrepresentation of the information. The navy detected an acoustic signal consistent with the implosion but had no way to be definitive as to what it was or what it meant. People may recall that during the search, regular tapping sounds were detected at one stage, and there was speculation that it came from the submersible. It turned out that the speculation as to what those acoustic signals meant was wrong. It's entirely understandable that there was no public announcement and speculation of that earlier acoustic signal. That doesn't a conspiracy make. There's a military maxim that first reports are always wrong.

[Archangel]

12 hours ago, BSR said:

The CEO of the company that built the Titan is 1 of the 5 dead.  He obviously believed in his product even though he admitted to cutting lots of corners and breaking all sorts of rules in the development of the vessel.  I think of it more a case of an oversized ego desperate to believe his own hype.  But you're right, it's still false marketing, even if the seller actually believes his own bullsh*t.

Andrews went down with the Titanic too. 

[Quincy_7]

The Titan sub was likely trying to surface and the passengers probably knew the hull was 'starting to crack' before it imploded, James Cameron says

NEWS.YAHOO.COM

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On Thursday, the Coast Guard said that OceanGate's Titan submersible imploded and that all passengers were presumed dead.

 

If Cameron is right then the five on board actually knew something was wrong and were trying to resurface.

[Luv2play]

13 hours ago, 56harrisond said:

On this point, in a strange coincidence, the rivets on the Titanic very much lead to it sinking within a mere three hours:

"the wrought iron in the rivets contained three times today’s allowable amount of slag (the glassy residue left behind after the smelting of the iron ore). The slag made the rivets less ductile and more brittle than they should have been when exposed to very cold temperatures—like those typically found in the icy seawater of the North Atlantic. This finding strongly suggested that Titanic’s collision with the iceberg caused the rivet heads to break off, popped the fasteners from their holes and allowed water to rush in between the separated hull plates."

NIST Reveals How Tiny Rivets Doomed a Titanic Vessel

WWW.NIST.GOV

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When the remains of RMS Titanic were discovered more than 3,800 meters (12,500 feet) beneath the surface of the North...

 

I've read that it was a conscious decision to use the cheaper rivets in order to save money. Money was lavished elsewhere, however, including on building the magnificent staircase.

Unfortunately, the design of the staircase prevented the bulkheads underneath from rising as high as they needed to in order to prevent water from sloshing over their tops in case of a leak in the hull. It was not thought necessary as the ship was considered to be unsinkable.  

[BuffaloKyle]

21 hours ago, Quincy_7 said:

The US navy knew about the implosion on Monday but kept silent while a wild goose chase was underway.

They were 99% sure but had to still search just in case. As evidenced by the banging sounds later that week there can be random noises in the ocean.

[Luv2play]

21 hours ago, Archangel said:

Andrews went down with the Titanic too. 

I thought the CEO of the compsmy that own the Titanic, Lord Ismay, got into a lifeboat when he should not have and saved himself. 

[Luv2play]

40 minutes ago, BuffaloKyle said:

They were 99% sure but had to still search just in case. As evidenced by the banging sounds later that week there can be random noises in the ocean.

James Cameron (who has visited the Titanic site more than 30 times) has come out and said that the Navy knew on Monday that the submersible was gone when all electonic contact with it was simultaneously cut off one and a half hours into the dive.

He has also said it was grotesque or words to that effect that the charade of a purported rescue attempt was prolonged for 4 days.

 

[BSR]

On 6/23/2023 at 6:29 PM, mike carey said:

I'd say more than 'a bit extreme', rather that the conspiracy theory is a calculated and wilful misrepresentation of the information. The navy detected an acoustic signal consistent with the implosion but had no way to be definitive as to what it was or what it meant. People may recall that during the search, regular tapping sounds were detected at one stage, and there was speculation that it came from the submersible. It turned out that the speculation as to what those acoustic signals meant was wrong. It's entirely understandable that there was no public announcement and speculation of that earlier acoustic signal. That doesn't a conspiracy make. There's a military maxim that first reports are always wrong.

It wasn't just the loud bang but that combined with the simultaneous loss of communications and tracking.  The loss of tracking is particularly significant because the transponder that tracks the submersible has its own separate housing and power supply.  James Cameron reported that within the diving community everyone knew on Monday morning that the loud bang + the loss of comms + the loss of tracking could mean only one thing:  the sub was gone.

Why the US government pushed a false narrative for 4 whole days is another issue.  Maybe they honestly believed they could still rescue the 5 people aboard, even if the chances of survival were less than 1%.  Or maybe they were just tickled pink no one was talking about Hunter Biden.

[+ augustus]

I feel bad for these people but seriously I wish rich narcissistic thrill seekers would give it a rest already.  These people were using new materials that never got independently certified, not to "explore" the ocean floor or do any kind of scientific research, but to make a trip they could talk about at parties.

[CuriousByNature]

5 hours ago, BSR said:

It wasn't just the loud bang but that combined with the simultaneous loss of communications and tracking.  The loss of tracking is particularly significant because the transponder that tracks the submersible has its own separate housing and power supply.  James Cameron reported that within the diving community everyone knew on Monday morning that the loud bang + the loss of comms + the loss of tracking could mean only one thing:  the sub was gone.

Why the US government pushed a false narrative for 4 whole days is another issue.  Maybe they honestly believed they could still rescue the 5 people aboard, even if the chances of survival were less than 1%.  Or maybe they were just tickled pink no one was talking about Hunter Biden.

I doubt it would have been accepted by the public if the search had not gone on at least until the 96 hours were up - for the sake of the families, in any case.  As long as there was a chance that the bang and loss of communications and tracking was not a catastrophic implosion, I think it was necessary to proceed as was done and not write off the passengers entirely.  From the outset everyone knew that an implosion was a possibility, but it was important to make the effort to know more definitively if that was the case.  Yes, it seems drawn out, but 4 days of hoping is a lot better than a lifetime wondering if the search had been given up too soon.   As for there being a political reason, I don't think so.  The search was only 4 days long, and that is not enough time for the public and media to forget about HB and that whole situation.

[BSR]

4 hours ago, CuriousByNature said:

I doubt it would have been accepted by the public if the search had not gone on at least until the 96 hours were up - for the sake of the families, in any case.  As long as there was a chance that the bang and loss of communications and tracking was not a catastrophic implosion, I think it was necessary to proceed as was done and not write off the passengers entirely.  From the outset everyone knew that an implosion was a possibility, but it was important to make the effort to know more definitively if that was the case.  Yes, it seems drawn out, but 4 days of hoping is a lot better than a lifetime wondering if the search had been given up too soon.   As for there being a political reason, I don't think so.  The search was only 4 days long, and that is not enough time for the public and media to forget about HB and that whole situation.

Fair enough, but I would feel less deceived if government officials had presented the whole picture, i.e., that the pretty much unanimous consensus in the diving community is that the sub is gone but that rescue efforts would continue until the 96 hours lapses.

Also, I disagree about 4 days being too short to distract from Hunter Biden's indictment.  We live in a soundbite world in which attention spans are getting shorter and shorter.  The Titan rescue effectively buried all Hunter Biden news during the worst of the scandal.  Way too convenient.

[+ José Soplanucas]

[marylander1940]

9 hours ago, BSR said:

It wasn't just the loud bang but that combined with the simultaneous loss of communications and tracking.  The loss of tracking is particularly significant because the transponder that tracks the submersible has its own separate housing and power supply.  James Cameron reported that within the diving community everyone knew on Monday morning that the loud bang + the loss of comms + the loss of tracking could mean only one thing:  the sub was gone.

Why the US government pushed a false narrative for 4 whole days is another issue.  Maybe they honestly believed they could still rescue the 5 people aboard, even if the chances of survival were less than 1%.  Or maybe they were just tickled pink no one was talking about Hunter Biden.

Some minds can't survive without conspiracy theories, they're like oxygen to them.

Interesting how all of the sudden so many folks are expert on submarines.

[robberbaron4u]

Folly? Perhaps. Then again, they punched their tickets to the greatest adventure life affords us: Death.

[BSR]

39 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

Interesting how all of the sudden so many folks are expert on submarines.

What folks' expertise are you questioning?  James Cameron visited the site of the Titanic wreck 33 times.  He descended into the Mariana Trench, the deepest submersible dive in history.  If Cameron isn't an expert, he is at least very knowledgeable and has strong connections to many in the small world of deep-sea diving.  A flurry of phone calls and emails were exchanged on Monday morning, and everyone came to the same conclusion:  the sub was gone.

Can you present one expert, outside of the Biden administration, who contradicts their conclusion?

Edited June 25, 2023 by BSR
Wording

[marylander1940]

11 minutes ago, BSR said:

What folks' expertise are you questioning?  James Cameron visited the site of the Titanic wreck 33 times.  He descended into the Mariana Trench, the deepest submersible dive in history.  If Cameron isn't an expert, he is at least very knowledgeable and has deep connections to many in the small world of deep-sea diving.  Many phone calls and emails were exchanged on Monday morning, and everyone came to the same conclusion:  the sub was gone.

Can you present one expert, outside of the Biden administration, who contradicts their conclusion?

I've also read that article about Cameron's opinion. He's an expert in the Titanic and deep dive submarines, you and I are not experts, right?

Why do you bring politics?

you still believe January 6th was nothing but tourist walking inside the Capitol. No expert would convince you of something you don't want to see with your own lying eyes. 

On 6/23/2023 at 1:56 PM, BSR said:

I heard that the teenager on board was terrified.  Mind you, he was 19yo (I'm assuming that's legally an adult in Pakistan) and made the decision to go despite his fear.  Then again, when dad's a billionaire, it might be reeeeaaaally hard to say no.

A snark comment or just plain old envy? Too soon! 

Most folks wish their dad was a billionaire or try to become one themselves.

[BSR]

1 hour ago, marylander1940 said:

I've also read that article about Cameron's opinion. He's an expert in the Titanic and deep dive submarines, you and I are not experts, right?

Why do you bring politics?

you still believe January 6th was nothing but tourist walking inside the Capitol. No expert would convince you of something you don't want to see with your own lying eyes. 

A snark comment or just plain old envy? Too soon! 

Most folks wish their dad was a billionaire or try to become one themselves.

As bizarre and nonsensical as your post is, I will try to respond.

In my post responding to @mike carey, I thought I made it clear that I was citing James Cameron (I do mention him in the first paragraph).  I admit to knowing next to nothing about deep-sea submersibles.

Then you explode into hysterics about Jan 6, which I never mentioned.  Oh my, you get so triggered when your precious darlings are under threat.

I mention the fact that the 19yo's father was a billionaire to suggest a possible reason the poor kid was pressured to go on the dive despite being terrified.  Billionaires wield enormous power, not just in business & politics but also in, or perhaps especially in their families.  Your assumption that it was a comment born of envy is simply bizarre.

Please calm down.

[mike carey]

A reminder to stay on topic. We've deleted some posts but left others that make relevant points and also include off-topic points. Don't reply to them unless what you are saying is in response to one of the relevant points.

[Rudynate]

On 6/22/2023 at 7:23 PM, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I don’t agree at all - 5 people decided to go on a very risky undersea adventure & it will cost tens of millions in total costs to our government.  and this isn’t a unique situation - our government spends tons of money getting people out of situations they shouldn’t be in to begin with.  Remember the kid held hostage in North Korea ?  And the hikers in Iran ?  It goes on and on and on.

Our government has finite resources and those resources should not be spent on people putting themselves into high risk situations which require government rescue.  The price for the submarine adventure needs to include insurance to pay for all the rescue costs if something happens.  
The US government will never recover these costs. Not going to happen. 

Does anybody know if there was insurance?  There are carriers who specialize in coverage of very high-risk scenarios.

[Rudynate]

On 6/23/2023 at 6:34 AM, pubic_assistance said:

They say: the most effective liars are the ones who actually believe their own lies.

If they believe their own lies, they are delusional.

[marylander1940]

42 minutes ago, BSR said:

The charade was grotesque, giving false hope to the friends & family of the 5 men on board.  As James Cameron reports (citing Cameron to spare @marylander1940 another hissy fit), the entire diving community knew that the sub was gone.  So why did the US government lie?

Lie?

They were searching for the submarine.

Are you quoting Q?

[BSR]

8 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

Lie?

They were searching for the submarine.

Are you quoting Q?

Making a big show about rescuing survivors when they knew the sub was gone.  The entire diving community knew it, the Navy knew it.  Yes, that qualifies as a lie.

Edited June 25, 2023 by BSR
Wording

[+ Lucky]

13 hours ago, BSR said:

It wasn't just the loud bang but that combined with the simultaneous loss of communications and tracking.  The loss of tracking is particularly significant because the transponder that tracks the submersible has its own separate housing and power supply.  James Cameron reported that within the diving community everyone knew on Monday morning that the loud bang + the loss of comms + the loss of tracking could mean only one thing:  the sub was gone.

Why the US government pushed a false narrative for 4 whole days is another issue.  Maybe they honestly believed they could still rescue the 5 people aboard, even if the chances of survival were less than 1%.  Or maybe they were just tickled pink no one was talking about Hunter Biden.

I think it is reprehensible that you inject the politics here. Hunter Biden has nothing to do with the submersible failure. Where are the moderators who complain that posts get too political?