What caused the decay of San Francisco?

[+ Tygerscent]

Neglect of infrastructure problems and too much investment into cooperate interests for fast profit might be a reason~ Seattle is an even bigger example of building for profit at the expense of the quality and safety of the local citizens and city as a livable habitat~ Emerald cities built on foundations of decay~  
 There’s a number of cities that I work in where clients will not meet after sunset because of safety concerns~ Seattle is one of them~ 
 Seattle cleaned up a part of town recently because there was a big sports event happening but, the rest of the city is crazy with capital Cray~   
 Emperor City’s New Clothing~   
 Building over the problems doesn’t mean they go away…   
 It reminds me of times back in the late 80’s and early 90s where entire neighborhoods were built on top of garbage dumps that had pockets of methane forming beneath the ground due to the garbage left underneath the foundations of the homes… Entire homes would burst into flames and explode when people turned on their stoves, lit cigarettes, used their fire places~ 

Seattle neighborhood outraged after homeless install swimming pool, puff fentanyl in broad daylight

WWW.GOOGLE.COM

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The expanding homeless encampment in the Highland Park neighborhood of Seattle has continued to anger neighbors after...

Recent Seattle fire in pics below… 

40 years and 1500 feet apart: Two Madison home explosions, but no likely connection

FOX47.COM

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MADISON, Wis. -- Tuesday night's headline is one that the city of Madison has seen before: a...

I was at the University of Wisconsin Madison taking courses towards my medical degree and one of the women I was in a class with suddenly stopped coming to classes. It’s because she was in one of the homes that was built on top of a garbage dump and exploded after her husband lit a cigarette~ Tragic~   
 Pure negligence on the part of the developers. As if nobody had never before heard of garbage producing methane~ She and her husband were severely burned and she withdrew from medical school~   
  In the number of cities within the states, mental illness, drug use, and homelessness are left to fester and grow within the city, as programs are defunded and dismantled~   
 It’s in so many cities across the nation~ 
 They are not new concerns… they’ve just perhaps been left unattended for a long time~   
 I’ve been running a homeless provision program between Seattle and Portland since 1990. Situations there were actually better tended to prior to 2016… Mayor Vera Katz of Portland developed several successful programs for the homeless but, after she left, the care and provisions dropped and the situation took a turn for the worse~   
  I still provide food, clothing and other services for the homeless and their pets in Portland at various times of the year~ I still feel safe in Portland day or night but, I’ve pretty much stopped my provisions in seattle due to safety concerns~    
 I think that has also become part of the difficulty in serving the community: safety~ at least, from the perspective of my own experience safety has become a provision issue~ 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Tygerscent

[BSR]

On 6/21/2023 at 5:47 PM, nate_sf said:

We locals are bewildered by all this negative national coverage. Yes there are problems but the media is going out of its way to paint a dire picture, and it just ain’t so. It is not dangerous here, and the vast majority of the city looks great.

Maybe not where you live and hang out, but elsewhere ...

"Workers at San Francisco's Federal Building located on 7th and Mission streets are reportedly being advised to work from home due to safety concerns over crime."

(I couldn't link the original SF Chronicle article because it's paywalled.)

[KeepItReal]

2 hours ago, BSR said:

Maybe not where you live and hang out, but elsewhere ...

"Workers at San Francisco's Federal Building located on 7th and Mission streets are reportedly being advised to work from home due to safety concerns over crime."

(I couldn't link the original SF Chronicle article because it's paywalled.)

I call bullshit.  I have been to San Francisco multiple times the past year. Staying in hotels in various areas around downtown...Chinatown, Union Square, Mission District. Went outside and walked to restaurants after dark, used the subway system, jogged outside. Never ONCE did I feel unsafe. 

A bigger concern was those damn steep hills. Walking from the financial district, up hill, to the InterContinental Mark Hopkins after work is quite the workout.  Especially if you have to do it again later, after a multi course work dinner and a few bottles of wine. 

Don't believe everything you read. Go see for yourself.

Edited August 13, 2023 by KeepItReal

[56harrisond]

2 hours ago, BSR said:

(I couldn't link the original SF Chronicle article because it's paywalled.)

BAY AREA/SAN FRANCISCO

Crime is so bad near S.F. Federal building employees are told to work from home, officials said
Megan Cassidy
Updated: Aug. 11, 2023 7:02 p.m.

Officials at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services advised hundreds of employees in San Francisco to work remotely for the foreseeable future due to public safety concerns outside the Nancy Pelosi Federal Building on Seventh Street. 

The imposing, 18-story tower on the corner of Seventh and Mission streets houses various federal agencies, including HHS, the U.S. Department of Labor, the U.S. Department of Transportation and the office of Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. The area is also home to one of the city’s most brazen open-air drug markets, where dozens of dealers and users congregate on a daily basis. 

HHS Assistant Secretary for Administration Cheryl R. Campbell issued the stay-home recommendation in an Aug. 4 memo to regional leaders.

“In light of the conditions at the (Federal Building) we recommend employees … maximize the use of telework for the foreseeable future,” Campbell wrote in the memo, a copy of which was obtained by The Chronicle. 

“This recommendation should be extended to all Region IX employees, including those not currently utilizing telework flexibilities,” Campbell wrote, referring to the federal government zone that includes California and other Western states.

The memo came on the same day that, according to Axios, President Biden’s White House chief of staff called for more federal employees to return to their offices after years of remote work due to the COVID-19 pandemic. 

It was not immediately clear whether other tenants in the building had issued similar directives. Officials with Pelosi’s office and the Department of Labor said they have been working closely with local and federal law enforcement to ensure safety for their staffers, but they have not advised employees to work from home. 

The building has long been a locus of some of the city’s most intractable problems. 

Dozens of dealers routinely plant themselves on, next to or across the street from the property, operating in shifts as users smoke, snort or shoot up their recent purchases. The property’s concrete benches are an especially popular site for users to get high, socialize or pass out. 

While Pelosi’s five-person staff was not advised to work remotely, she raised concerns about the building’s tenant safety last week in a meeting with the U.S. attorney for the northern district of California, according to officials with her office. 

“The safety of workers in our federal buildings has always been a priority for Speaker Emerita Pelosi, whether in the building or on their commutes,” Pelosi spokesperson Aaron Bennett said in a statement. 

“Federal, state and local law enforcement — in coordination with public health officials and stakeholders — are working hard to address the acute crises of fentanyl trafficking and related violence in certain areas of the city.”

Pelosi recently secured more federal law enforcement assistance in cracking down on the city’s fentanyl crisis in the Tenderloin and SoMa areas. San Francisco is one of the cities included in a federal program called Operation Overdrive, which targets drug traffickers in areas with the highest levels of drug-related violence and overdoses. 

The Speaker Nancy Pelosi Federal Building is maintained by the federal General Services Administration, and policing is handled by Federal Protective Services. 

Richard Stebbins, a public affairs officer for GSA, said the agency coordinates with San Francisco police to enhance safety outside of the building, which includes routine patrols and camera systems around the perimeter of the building. 

“The building is a safe and secure space for federal employees and the visiting public,” Stebbins said in an email to the Chronicle. “There are a number of security controls GSA employs to make sure the building is safe including Federal Protective Services officers at the building and secure checkpoints.”

Officials with the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the Federal Protective Service, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. 

But a tenant of the building familiar with recent decisions said the agency and GSA have recently implemented a number of new security measures to address safety concerns. This included pulling FPS personnel from other nearby properties for additional security, a pending vote on funds for an additional “roving” guard dedicated to the property, and creating a “BART Buddies” program that has escorts on call from 4:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. to walk employees to and from BART. 

Evan Sernoffsky, a spokesperson for the San Francisco Police Department, said officers are working with local, state and federal partners to address the drug crisis in the Tenderloin and South of Market neighborhoods. 

“This work includes seizing an unprecedented amount of fentanyl this year while also arresting drug dealers,” he said. “The SFPD is also making arrests when people are openly using and creating a danger to themselves or others.”

[KeepItReal]

4 minutes ago, 56harrisond said:

BAY AREA/SAN FRANCISCO

Crime is so bad near S.F. Federal building employees are told to work from home, officials said
Megan Cassidy
Updated: Aug. 11, 2023 7:02 p.m.

Officials at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services advised hundreds of employees in San Francisco to work remotely for the foreseeable future due to public safety concerns outside the Nancy Pelosi Federal Building on Seventh Street. 

The imposing, 18-story tower on the corner of Seventh and Mission streets houses various federal agencies, including HHS, the U.S. Department of Labor, the U.S. Department of Transportation and the office of Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. The area is also home to one of the city’s most brazen open-air drug markets, where dozens of dealers and users congregate on a daily basis. 

HHS Assistant Secretary for Administration Cheryl R. Campbell issued the stay-home recommendation in an Aug. 4 memo to regional leaders.

“In light of the conditions at the (Federal Building) we recommend employees … maximize the use of telework for the foreseeable future,” Campbell wrote in the memo, a copy of which was obtained by The Chronicle. 

“This recommendation should be extended to all Region IX employees, including those not currently utilizing telework flexibilities,” Campbell wrote, referring to the federal government zone that includes California and other Western states.

The memo came on the same day that, according to Axios, President Biden’s White House chief of staff called for more federal employees to return to their offices after years of remote work due to the COVID-19 pandemic. 

It was not immediately clear whether other tenants in the building had issued similar directives. Officials with Pelosi’s office and the Department of Labor said they have been working closely with local and federal law enforcement to ensure safety for their staffers, but they have not advised employees to work from home. 

The building has long been a locus of some of the city’s most intractable problems. 

Dozens of dealers routinely plant themselves on, next to or across the street from the property, operating in shifts as users smoke, snort or shoot up their recent purchases. The property’s concrete benches are an especially popular site for users to get high, socialize or pass out. 

While Pelosi’s five-person staff was not advised to work remotely, she raised concerns about the building’s tenant safety last week in a meeting with the U.S. attorney for the northern district of California, according to officials with her office. 

“The safety of workers in our federal buildings has always been a priority for Speaker Emerita Pelosi, whether in the building or on their commutes,” Pelosi spokesperson Aaron Bennett said in a statement. 

“Federal, state and local law enforcement — in coordination with public health officials and stakeholders — are working hard to address the acute crises of fentanyl trafficking and related violence in certain areas of the city.”

Pelosi recently secured more federal law enforcement assistance in cracking down on the city’s fentanyl crisis in the Tenderloin and SoMa areas. San Francisco is one of the cities included in a federal program called Operation Overdrive, which targets drug traffickers in areas with the highest levels of drug-related violence and overdoses. 

The Speaker Nancy Pelosi Federal Building is maintained by the federal General Services Administration, and policing is handled by Federal Protective Services. 

Richard Stebbins, a public affairs officer for GSA, said the agency coordinates with San Francisco police to enhance safety outside of the building, which includes routine patrols and camera systems around the perimeter of the building. 

“The building is a safe and secure space for federal employees and the visiting public,” Stebbins said in an email to the Chronicle. “There are a number of security controls GSA employs to make sure the building is safe including Federal Protective Services officers at the building and secure checkpoints.”

Officials with the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the Federal Protective Service, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. 

But a tenant of the building familiar with recent decisions said the agency and GSA have recently implemented a number of new security measures to address safety concerns. This included pulling FPS personnel from other nearby properties for additional security, a pending vote on funds for an additional “roving” guard dedicated to the property, and creating a “BART Buddies” program that has escorts on call from 4:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. to walk employees to and from BART. 

Evan Sernoffsky, a spokesperson for the San Francisco Police Department, said officers are working with local, state and federal partners to address the drug crisis in the Tenderloin and South of Market neighborhoods. 

“This work includes seizing an unprecedented amount of fentanyl this year while also arresting drug dealers,” he said. “The SFPD is also making arrests when people are openly using and creating a danger to themselves or others.”

Consider: she is a crime reporter.  As the expression goes: to a person with a hammer ever problem looks like a nail.

"Megan Cassidy is a crime reporter with The Chronicle, also covering cops, criminal justice issues and mayhem. Previously, Cassidy worked for the Arizona Republic covering Phoenix police, Sheriff Joe Arpaio and desert-area crime and mayhem."

 

[+ jessmapex]

I have lived in the Bay area since 1997. While parts of SF have declined, the larger Bay area and the suburbs are thriving...especially the marine county, the peninsula, the south bay (silicon valley, san jose) , east bay suburbs like Walnut Creek, San Ramon, Danville etc.  

Bay area is still attractive for many reasons .. the cool summers are very pleasant ..even more so as I read about TX and AZ heat waves. The natural beauty of the coast, the mountains, the giant redwoods, the fog rolling in through the golden gate and the hills, the multiethnic population, great produce and fruit, pretty much every cuisine under the sky ..all still take my breath away. 

SF city proper is a very small part of the greater Bay area but gets a lot of coverage in the media. The homeless, the drug users have always been concentrated in certain parts of that small city.  The downtown got impacted due to those parts being close to the downtown and remote work due to the pandemic. 

Next time you talk about SF think about the Google search you did, the iphone you used, the zoom call you hopped on, the Tesla you drove etc . All these are the result of the ingenuity and hard work of the SF Bay area residents. This kind of technology and innovation used around the world does not come from a broken, lawless society.  The homeless drug users and the mentally ill in the city is a very small and not particularly significant part of the equation that has been widely exaggerated by the conservative media to portray progressive policies as the devil.  

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by jessmapex

[nate_sf]

6 hours ago, 56harrisond said:

BAY AREA/SAN FRANCISCO

Crime is so bad near S.F. Federal building employees are told to work from home, officials said
Megan Cassidy
Updated: Aug. 11, 2023 7:02 p.m.

Officials at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services advised hundreds of employees in San Francisco to work remotely for the foreseeable future due to public safety concerns outside the Nancy Pelosi Federal Building on Seventh Street. 

The imposing, 18-story tower on the corner of Seventh and Mission streets houses various federal agencies, including HHS, the U.S. Department of Labor, the U.S. Department of Transportation and the office of Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi. The area is also home to one of the city’s most brazen open-air drug markets, where dozens of dealers and users congregate on a daily basis. 

HHS Assistant Secretary for Administration Cheryl R. Campbell issued the stay-home recommendation in an Aug. 4 memo to regional leaders.

“In light of the conditions at the (Federal Building) we recommend employees … maximize the use of telework for the foreseeable future,” Campbell wrote in the memo, a copy of which was obtained by The Chronicle. 

“This recommendation should be extended to all Region IX employees, including those not currently utilizing telework flexibilities,” Campbell wrote, referring to the federal government zone that includes California and other Western states.

The memo came on the same day that, according to Axios, President Biden’s White House chief of staff called for more federal employees to return to their offices after years of remote work due to the COVID-19 pandemic. 

It was not immediately clear whether other tenants in the building had issued similar directives. Officials with Pelosi’s office and the Department of Labor said they have been working closely with local and federal law enforcement to ensure safety for their staffers, but they have not advised employees to work from home. 

The building has long been a locus of some of the city’s most intractable problems. 

Dozens of dealers routinely plant themselves on, next to or across the street from the property, operating in shifts as users smoke, snort or shoot up their recent purchases. The property’s concrete benches are an especially popular site for users to get high, socialize or pass out. 

While Pelosi’s five-person staff was not advised to work remotely, she raised concerns about the building’s tenant safety last week in a meeting with the U.S. attorney for the northern district of California, according to officials with her office. 

“The safety of workers in our federal buildings has always been a priority for Speaker Emerita Pelosi, whether in the building or on their commutes,” Pelosi spokesperson Aaron Bennett said in a statement. 

“Federal, state and local law enforcement — in coordination with public health officials and stakeholders — are working hard to address the acute crises of fentanyl trafficking and related violence in certain areas of the city.”

Pelosi recently secured more federal law enforcement assistance in cracking down on the city’s fentanyl crisis in the Tenderloin and SoMa areas. San Francisco is one of the cities included in a federal program called Operation Overdrive, which targets drug traffickers in areas with the highest levels of drug-related violence and overdoses. 

The Speaker Nancy Pelosi Federal Building is maintained by the federal General Services Administration, and policing is handled by Federal Protective Services. 

Richard Stebbins, a public affairs officer for GSA, said the agency coordinates with San Francisco police to enhance safety outside of the building, which includes routine patrols and camera systems around the perimeter of the building. 

“The building is a safe and secure space for federal employees and the visiting public,” Stebbins said in an email to the Chronicle. “There are a number of security controls GSA employs to make sure the building is safe including Federal Protective Services officers at the building and secure checkpoints.”

Officials with the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the Federal Protective Service, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. 

But a tenant of the building familiar with recent decisions said the agency and GSA have recently implemented a number of new security measures to address safety concerns. This included pulling FPS personnel from other nearby properties for additional security, a pending vote on funds for an additional “roving” guard dedicated to the property, and creating a “BART Buddies” program that has escorts on call from 4:30 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. to walk employees to and from BART. 

Evan Sernoffsky, a spokesperson for the San Francisco Police Department, said officers are working with local, state and federal partners to address the drug crisis in the Tenderloin and South of Market neighborhoods. 

“This work includes seizing an unprecedented amount of fentanyl this year while also arresting drug dealers,” he said. “The SFPD is also making arrests when people are openly using and creating a danger to themselves or others.”

It's always possible to cherry-pick news stories to suit one's narrative. This can also be done to present a more positive narrative. Here are headlines from this past week that present a more optimistic narrative:

From the San Francisco Business Times:

• "San Francisco Sees Siginficant Jump in Return-To-Office Study"
• "IKEA on Market Street Set to Open This Month." The story mentions that "San Francisco is the first pioneering U.S. site for the company's new urban-centric format..."

From the San Francisco Standard:

• "Out-of-Town Zillow Users Are Lusting After San Francisco Property"
• "Downtown San Francisco’s Return to Office Highest Since Covid"

Interestingly, the San Francisco Chronicle is really, really negative. I had a hard time "cherry-picking" any positive stories from that source.

My earlier observation that vast majority of the city looks great also implicitly acknowledges that some areas do not look great. And yes, the Federal Building on 7th Street is an awful blighted mess. 6th Street had traditionally been the City's "Hamsterdam," but it has become marginally better in recent years. Meanwhile, 7th Street has declined. Seems like the trouble has migrated towards 7th.

The design of the Federal Building doesn't do any favors. Generally I like modern architecture, but that building is just butt-ugly. It's built like a fortress, and was further fortified after 9-11, so its perimeter is a no-man's land that is conducive to nefarious acts. I didn't know that policing of the building is handled by Federal Protective Services. We all know that there are legal limitations to prohibiting people from camping on the streets, despite the blight it brings, thanks to that frustrating court decision. So I suppose the Fed's hands are tied on that one. But it seems like the drug dealing could be cleaned up.

[marylander1940]

31 minutes ago, nate_sf said:

It's always possible to cherry-pick news stories to suit one's narrative. This can also be done to present a more positive narrative. Here are headlines from this past week that present a more optimistic narrative:

From the San Francisco Business Times:

• "San Francisco Sees Siginficant Jump in Return-To-Office Study"
• "IKEA on Market Street Set to Open This Month." The story mentions that "San Francisco is the first pioneering U.S. site for the company's new urban-centric format..."

From the San Francisco Standard:

• "Out-of-Town Zillow Users Are Lusting After San Francisco Property"
• "Downtown San Francisco’s Return to Office Highest Since Covid"

Interestingly, the San Francisco Chronicle is really, really negative. I had a hard time "cherry-picking" any positive stories from that source.

My earlier observation that vast majority of the city looks great also implicitly acknowledges that some areas do not look great. And yes, the Federal Building on 7th Street is an awful blighted mess. 6th Street had traditionally been the City's "Hamsterdam," but it has become marginally better in recent years. Meanwhile, 7th Street has declined. Seems like the trouble has migrated towards 7th.

The design of the Federal Building doesn't do any favors. Generally I like modern architecture, but that building is just butt-ugly. It's built like a fortress, and was further fortified after 9-11, so its perimeter is a no-man's land that is conducive to nefarious acts. I didn't know that policing of the building is handled by Federal Protective Services. We all know that there are legal limitations to prohibiting people from camping on the streets, despite the blight it brings, thanks to that frustrating court decision. So I suppose the Fed's hands are tied on that one. But it seems like the drug dealing could be cleaned up.

Unfortunately, once a narrative is set there's no way to change minds specially if some news media do nothing but point the issues affecting San Francisco and not covering the poverty, racism, drug addiction, homophobia, obesity, generational hopelessness and despair affecting other backwards parts of the country. 

In the meantime, let's go back to enjoy the technologies imagined, invented and developed in the Bay Area like internet, computers, iPhone, etc.

Thank you @nate_sf for bringing clear news on the subject! I passed your information about Westfield mall offloading all US properties and not just in San Francisco to some friends.

9 hours ago, BSR said:

Maybe not where you live and hang out, but elsewhere ...

"Workers at San Francisco's Federal Building located on 7th and Mission streets are reportedly being advised to work from home due to safety concerns over crime."

(I couldn't link the original SF Chronicle article because it's paywalled.)

If crimes are being committed cops should arrest those committing them.... whether they're homeless or not!

 

[Lookin]

The other night I watched a documentary on fentanyl use in Appalachia.  The takeaway for me was that, once you get addicted to fentanyl (which is not hard to do) your life ping-pongs between feeling miserable or getting the next cheap hit.  It's very hard to come off that drug.  The folks who were interviewed did a good job of describing just how awful they felt when the dose wore off and the desperation until they got the next hit.  They said that in the small West Virginia community where they lived about 40% of the people were addicted and that included young men who lay around all day getting high, never having worked.  In their area, it was pretty easy to sit around in cheap housing being addicted to fentanyl and a couple of other opiates.  There really weren't many streets to sleep on, although there was an abandoned house where addicts hung around and got high.

In San Francisco, I guess the equivalent to abandoned houses is the streets.  So that's where the addicts hang out.

If I ever became a fentanyl addict, there's a good chance I'd look for a cheap place to live and get high, until I'd spent my last five bucks and found myself on the street.  That drug and some of the other additives would just take away all of my initiative and hope.  I don't judge the people on the streets, as the only difference between them and me is that, inshallah, I haven't become hooked on opiates.

San Francisco has tried, is trying and will continue to try solutions.  They can't solve the pipeline of street drugs which I understand come through legal border crossings.  So they tried 'safe injection centers', where deaths could be avoided and sanitary needles provided.  These services were illegal under State law and Governor Newsom recently vetoed a bill that would make them legal.  I believe there are some private organizations trying to provide those services, including counseling to those who want treatment.  

To reach the non-addicted homeless, there was a woman who rented a warehouse and put tents inside so that those folks who did not feel good about communal shelters could pitch a tent inside the warehouse and keep all their possessions with them.  I recall it was very successful but there were some issues of liability and it closed.

I even recall a program a few years ago to put toilets on the street so folks wouldn't have to drop a loaf on the sidewalk. 💩

San Francisco has its homeless problems right out on the street where anyone can see them.  Personally, I think when you've got a problem it's good to keep it out in the open so that people can help find solutions.  San Francisco has solved problems in the past, including problems that made a lot of folks uncomfortable.

I'm hopeful that San Franciscans will find some solutions for their current problems too and I'll turn to pessimism as a last resort.

.

 

 

[+ Lucky]

Throwing money at the homeless has not proven to be a successful solution. It does create jobs for those already having homes, and we know that bureaucrats will do anything to keep their bureau growing. I do favor mandatory confinement for the homeless that are mentally ill, and mandatory live-in treatment for the drug addicted. Beyond that, helping people in need never goes out of favor...

[BSR]

15 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

Consider: she is a crime reporter.  As the expression goes: to a person with a hammer ever problem looks like a nail.

"Megan Cassidy is a crime reporter with The Chronicle, also covering cops, criminal justice issues and mayhem. Previously, Cassidy worked for the Arizona Republic covering Phoenix police, Sheriff Joe Arpaio and desert-area crime and mayhem."

 

Fair enough, but is anything she reported in the above article untrue?  The San Francisco mayor, district attorney, and many members of this forum bend over backward to sing the city's praises and minimize the crime, homelessness, and drug use.  At least we have someone reporting the less-than-rosey happenings so that we get the whole truth.  A partial truth is still a lie.

Edited August 14, 2023 by BSR
Added last sentence

[BSR]

10 hours ago, jessmapex said:

The homeless drug users and the mentally ill in the city is a very small and insignificant part of the equation that has been exaggerated by the conservative media to portray progressive policies as the devil. 

I didn't realize that the San Francisco Chronicle was conservative media.  Thanks for the heads up.

[BSR]

16 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

I call bullshit.  I have been to San Francisco multiple times the past year. Staying in hotels in various areas around downtown...Chinatown, Union Square, Mission District. Went outside and walked to restaurants after dark, used the subway system, jogged outside. Never ONCE did I feel unsafe. 

A bigger concern was those damn steep hills. Walking from the financial district, up hill, to the InterContinental Mark Hopkins after work is quite the workout.  Especially if you have to do it again later, after a multi course work dinner and a few bottles of wine. 

Don't believe everything you read. Go see for yourself.

You say San Francisco is perfectly safe (or as safe as any big city can be) because you've been there a few times recently whereas what I read & see on the Internet is wrong because I haven't been visited (well, not since 2010).  Sure you wanna go with that?

That was your experience.  Hey, good for you.  I lived in NYC from 1984-87 and routinely walked home or took the subway at 4-5am (because I was too poor to afford cabfare, LOL).  I never came close to getting mugged or assaulted.  I can't say I felt perfectly safe on the subway during those hours, but I never felt threatened either.  Does that mean NYC back then was a safe city? Oh, heck no!  The crime statistics prove that NYC was a rather unsafe city in the mid-80s.  I was just lucky.

I recently saw an interview with a 20-year SF resident who moved for a number reasons, crime being a big one.  Even though she lived in a good neighborhood (she was a top exec at a Fortune 100 company), her car was broken into 5 times in 5 months.  She saw open drug use and needles in the streets.  Is she right because she lived there whereas you're wrong because you just visited?  Not necessarily because again it's just 1 person's experience.

Just as @jessmapex argues that conservative media likes to paint a dark picture of San Francisco to demonize the city's politics, I have to think the opposite is true with some forum members, that they are minimizing the city's very serious problems, again, because of politics.

[+ augustus]

On 6/16/2023 at 10:11 AM, SouthOfTheBorder said:

born & raised in middle America.  I’ve lived all over the United States and know it extremely well.  
It’s a country going backwards by almost any measure.  It’s not unusual in a historical context.  
All great empires crumble and it’s almost always the direct result of internal failures that cause the collapse vs external. The United States is in the process of slow collapse - San Francisco is just a leading indicator.  
Americans generally don’t understand history so they aren’t connecting the dots.  

Not as bad as you imagine.  Our GDP has far surpassed the EU's and on top of that, Europe has no military muscle.

Europe has fallen behind America and the gap is growing | Financial Times

WWW.FT.COM

---

From technology to energy to capital markets and universities, the EU cannot compete with the US

 

 

[+ augustus]

I will add that many of these progressives that live in SF actually hate the high-tech industry and the people that work there.  They think the city should just be composed of artisan bakeries, weed dispensaries, quaint bars, etc.   SF will not change, because of the pervasive mentality of many of its residents, idealistic dreamers who have flocked here since the 1960's.   The business community will not continue to put up with it and SF may actually be in a doom loop.

[Cooper]

Administrator’s Reminder:

Gentlemen, This is a very interesting and informative thread. Let’s keep politics out of the discussion and stay on topic. Some replies have been removed for violating the Guidelines. 

[+ tassojunior]

Even with Modern Monetary Theory a society has to decide how much of it's wealth goes to social benefits for citizens and how much goes to war. The US is totally overwhelmingly different than every other country in that. That's not politics, that's just obvious facts and plain sense.

[Guest]

I've been to San Francisco twice within the last year and a half... I was so saddened by what I saw. I had been reading and had been told about the gravity of the crime, the homelessness, and the public drug  use but nothing could have prepared me for what I saw... I really only walked from my hotel to a gym near upper Van Ness and had never really seen someone smoke crack cocaine let alone walk just feet from multiple people smoking crack cocaine not even trying to hide it. 

Pre pandemic, I would visit SF regularly. I actually got my start in the biz working for a studio in Emeryville so I was in the city 3-4 times a year at least
San Francisco will always be a special place for me, so seeing the social decay really hit hard for me 😕

[+ tassojunior]

I think the mentally ill should be taken in and cared for well and nicely. But the explosion in homelessness the past few years is not from an explosion in mentally ill I don't think. While the upper middle class has doubled recently from 5% to 10% of the population, the "working poor" bottom middle class has taken it on the chin. Just recently the $300/mo child credit was eliminated and SNAP food stamps were cut $100/mo. We never hear about these things because it's not good PR for the government. But people on the border between working and being on assistance are struggling with inflation more than anyone. I think many are just giving up and getting a tent or sleeping in their car. 

[+ augustus]

On 8/13/2023 at 3:36 PM, nate_sf said:

It's always possible to cherry-pick news stories to suit one's narrative. This can also be done to present a more positive narrative. Here are headlines from this past week that present a more optimistic narrative:

That may be true, but there are not many good narratives.  Many more stores have closed than opened in SF.  Whole Foods closed one of its stores because of rampant crime.  Did you see the full-page ad in the Chronicle by Gump's department store??  Gump's said people are afraid to go shopping at the store and SF is becoming unlivable.  Even though many areas are good, I saw on the news that the wealthy neighborhoods are hiring their own security guards for protection as the SFPD is understaffed and looks the other way at crimes being committed.  This decay is going to spread throughout the city as the parasites must find new people to feed off of.  

[marylander1940]

Opinion | There’s a Reason the Homeless Flock to San Francisco

WWW.WSJ.COM

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A welcoming environment for camping and drugs attracts many from out of town and then keeps...

The law should promote good behavior and not extend the agony of those who need help and can't help themselves!

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by marylander1940

[maninsoma]

I'm struggling this morning with this reality:

A woman's body was found in a duffel bag near a big music festival this past weekend.  Clearly not an accidental death unless you believe she crawled into a duffel bag herself.  From what I've read (quotes from the deceased's mother), the woman suffered from severe mental illness (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder), refused treatment, had significant substance abuse issues, was aggressive towards her mother and mother's property which is why her mother forced her to move out four years ago, had multiple legal issues so she preferred to sleep on the street near the courthouse, and supposedly loved San Francisco (she was raised in the East Bay).  Beyond the tragedy of someone being murdered, I was left thinking that if this woman's mental illness and drug abuse were treated she might still be alive.  Because this woman has a right to refuse treatment, though, she was basically a psychotic, drug addled woman on the street whose behavior likely created enemies.  And just this morning I read about another judge issuing an injunction against the city for removing anyone from the street unless they had shelter for them, even though a recent study has found that around half of people sleeping on the street have refused shelter.  We're basically in a no-win situation since the reality is bad for the people who have significant problems but either don't want to accept help because they are choosing drugs over assistance or they lack insight to comprehend the extent of their problems, it's bad for the residents and businesses in the neighborhoods impacted by this, and overall it's bad for San Francisco since, whether it's entirely fair or not, the image of the City now is not very attractive to a lot of people. 

[+ tassojunior]

I don't think it's "political" to acknowledge that food stamps being cut by almost $100/mo and the $300/mo child subsidy being eliminated together with amazing consumer inflation for essentials have forced many low-income workers into just giving up.

The number of mentally ill people has not just suddenly multiplied. 

The vast majority of American workers have to drive to work and if I made minimum  wage and gas were $4/gal I'd be tempted to say "fuck it" and live out of my car or a tent in their situation too, as many working poor are already doing.  How working poor parents are managing with almost  $400/mo less support per child is beyond me. I'd think of giving them to the grandparents to raise and pitching a tent out at Land's End too.  

Things are going really well for those of us lucky enough to be in the upper middle class. For those making $25K it's gotten a lot worse. 

 

[MikeBiDude]

Some Federal government government employees told to work from home because of high San Francisco crime:

Workers at SF Federal Building told to work from home due to crime: report

WWW.KTVU.COM

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Workers at San Francisco's Federal Building located on 7th and Mission streets are reportedly being advised...

 

[marylander1940]

3 hours ago, maninsoma said:

I'm struggling this morning with this reality:

A woman's body was found in a duffel bag near a big music festival this past weekend.  Clearly not an accidental death unless you believe she crawled into a duffel bag herself.  From what I've read (quotes from the deceased's mother), the woman suffered from severe mental illness (schizophrenia, bipolar disorder), refused treatment, had significant substance abuse issues, was aggressive towards her mother and mother's property which is why her mother forced her to move out four years ago, had multiple legal issues so she preferred to sleep on the street near the courthouse, and supposedly loved San Francisco (she was raised in the East Bay).  Beyond the tragedy of someone being murdered, I was left thinking that if this woman's mental illness and drug abuse were treated she might still be alive.  Because this woman has a right to refuse treatment, though, she was basically a psychotic, drug addled woman on the street whose behavior likely created enemies.  And just this morning I read about another judge issuing an injunction against the city for removing anyone from the street unless they had shelter for them, even though a recent study has found that around half of people sleeping on the street have refused shelter.  We're basically in a no-win situation since the reality is bad for the people who have significant problems but either don't want to accept help because they are choosing drugs over assistance or they lack insight to comprehend the extent of their problems, it's bad for the residents and businesses in the neighborhoods impacted by this, and overall it's bad for San Francisco since, whether it's entirely fair or not, the image of the City now is not very attractive to a lot of people. 

The fact that her refusal to get treatment was accepted and she wasn't locked up and treated but left on the street is the reason she's dead.