What caused the decay of San Francisco?

[BSR]

Gotta love the entrepreneurial spirit!  From the NY Post:  ""A local guide now offers a “Downtown Doom Loop Walking Tour,” to “start at City Hall, and continue through Mid-Market, the Tenderloin, and Union Square. We will view the open-air drug markets, the abandoned tech offices, the outposts of the nonprofit industrial complex, and the deserted department stores."

I haven't visited San Francisco since 2010, but this really makes me want to go back!

[Medin]

On 6/9/2023 at 2:44 AM, augustus said:

Detroit lost its economic base, and then the society declined.

San Francisco lost its society, and then the economic base declined.

Any yet Detroit has no homeless problem.  Strange but true.  There are many reasons (and complex to say the least) for that and talked about quite a bit lately but the main reason seems to be that the economic decline opened up a lot of cheap/empty housing so the city and state are not having to spend huge $$$ housing the homeless.  

[Marc in Calif]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:27 PM, BSR said:

I recently saw an interview with a 20-year SF resident who moved for a number reasons, crime being a big one.

The plural of anecdote is not evidence. 🙄

[BSR]

5 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

The plural of anecdote is not evidence. 🙄

Apparently you can't be bothered with context.  I was responding to @KeepItReal's claim that San Francisco was just fine and that he knew that because he had visited a few times.  I even concede later in my post that this was just one woman's experience. 

Funny how you had no problem with his anecdote.

PS:  have you gone on the Doom Loop Walking Tour yet?  It sounds like hella fun!

How can a city with a $14.6 billion annual budget be a model of urban decay? How can it spend $776.8 million per year on police and have no rule of law to show for it? How can it spend $690 million on homeless services and receive an official United Nations condemnation for its treatment of the homeless ("cruel and inhuman"; "violation of multiple human rights")?

[+ augustus]

Well, it's not just San Francisco.  Nike just announced it is closing the large factory outlet store in Portland because of rampant theft and the police do nothing about it.  It has been there since 1984.  Woke robbing from a woke company.  They should replace it with a work boot outlet store, it will never be robbed.

[+ augustus]

Amazing how SF is cleaned up for the APEC conference.  Just unbelievable.  Time for a drag queen parade I think.  And where did they put all these homeless?  I can't find anything on the news about where they were sent!

[pubic_assistance]

10 hours ago, augustus said:

I can't find anything on the news about where they were sent!

[+ augustus]

San Francisco's aggressive crime crackdown sees dramatic drop in car break-ins

WWW.FOXNEWS.COM

---

Through a combination of bait cars, plainclothes officers and video surveillance, car burglary rates have dropped considerably in San Francisco, according to a report.

Wow, some good news for San Francisco.   Thank God they got rid of that imbecile DA Chesa Boudin.

[Luv2play]

On 8/18/2023 at 2:58 PM, Medin said:

Any yet Detroit has no homeless problem.  Strange but true.  There are many reasons (and complex to say the least) for that and talked about quite a bit lately but the main reason seems to be that the economic decline opened up a lot of cheap/empty housing so the city and state are not having to spend huge $$$ housing the homeless.  

I imagine that’s what Rome looked like after the fall of the Roman Empire. Lots of abandoned villas and no more running water.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

I wouldn't want to live in SF now, under current conditions.  but, I have many fond memories from living there years ago.

historically SF has extreme boom & bust cycles - this is just another one with a different twist.  It always comes back.

It's still the most beautiful American city in a region rich with natural abundance & the best universities in the world.  

I think it's very strange time in the US when many Americans are wishing for the big cities to fail.  As cities are the economic drivers for the nation - be very careful what you wish for. As is typical, people don't understand the consequences.  Kind of like Brexit - all sounded great as a taking point until the reality hit them in the face.  
 

Edited December 13, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[BSR]

11 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I think it's very strange time in the US when many Americans are wishing for the big cities to fail.

I would phrase it differently.  I think it's more that many Americans want big cities to deal with the consequences of their bad policies, for example, the millions of New Yorkers who (indirectly at least) voted in favor of open borders but are now angry that the city budget (especially in critical areas like police and education) is being slashed and native New Yorkers are being forced to make painful sacrifices because the city has had to divert so much $$ to care for migrants. 

When Texas and other border states said they were suffering from all the illegal immigration, sanctuary cities like NYC and Chicago didn't give a rat's ass.  Pardon the schadenfreude now that NYCers & Chicagoans are suffering due to the policies they voted for.

And as I mentioned before, residents of "enlightened" cities branded anyone who disagreed with their policies as racist.  Now that these so-called enlightened policies have turned these cities into shitholes, don't expect any sympathy from those you wrongly smeared.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

1 hour ago, BSR said:

I would phrase it differently.  I think it's more that many Americans want big cities to deal with the consequences of their bad policies, for example, the millions of New Yorkers who (indirectly at least) voted in favor of open borders but are now angry that the city budget (especially in critical areas like police and education) is being slashed and native New Yorkers are being forced to make painful sacrifices because the city has had to divert so much $$ to care for migrants. 

That's a great example.  To get back on the topic of decay in San Francisco, people outside of San Francisco can't believe the San Franciscans don't see the link between soft on theft and drugs has led to so much theft and so much drugs that tourists, businesses, and the tax base is leaving.  The people outside of San Francisco don't want to see San Francisco get worse; they want to see the city wake up and reverse their decisions that failed. 

[marylander1940]

2 hours ago, BSR said:

I would phrase it differently.  I think it's more that many Americans want big cities to deal with the consequences of their bad policies, for example, the millions of New Yorkers who (indirectly at least) voted in favor of open borders but are now angry that the city budget (especially in critical areas like police and education) is being slashed and native New Yorkers are being forced to make painful sacrifices because the city has had to divert so much $$ to care for migrants. 

When Texas and other border states said they were suffering from all the illegal immigration, sanctuary cities like NYC and Chicago didn't give a rat's ass.  Pardon the schadenfreude now that NYCers & Chicagoans are suffering due to the policies they voted for.

And as I mentioned before, residents of "enlightened" cities branded anyone who disagreed with their policies as racist.  Now that these so-called enlightened policies have turned these cities into shitholes, don't expect any sympathy from those you wrongly smeared.

Texas suffered from the cheap labor of folks who worked their asses off doing jobs Americans won't get their fat asses off the sofa to do? 

Don't excuse yourself about schadenfreude, we're accustomed and it's entertaining. 

In the meantime, Chicagoans and New Yorkers taxes keep funding the budgets of the "taker states". 

Possibly this forum, internet, PrEP and SO many other things we enjoy daily wouldn't exist if it wasn't for entrepreneurs, and freethinkers from San Francisco.

Edited December 14, 2023 by marylander1940

[marylander1940]

25 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

That's a great example.  To get back on the topic of decay in San Francisco, people outside of San Francisco can't believe the San Franciscans don't see the link between soft on theft and drugs has led to so much theft and so much drugs that tourists, businesses, and the tax base is leaving.  The people outside of San Francisco don't want to see San Francisco get worse; they want to see the city wake up and reverse their decisions that failed. 

we finally agree on something! 

 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

3 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

In the meantime, Chicagoans and New Yorkers taxes keep funding the budgets of the "taker states".

It seems like someone has a problem with handouts... Taking from successful areas and giving to less successful areas.  It's as if someone acknowledges taking from richer areas and giving funding to poorer areas doesn't lift the poor areas up, it just drags the successful areas down.  I wonder if giving free items to those in need in San Francisco (free drug needles, free shelter in the subway stations, etc) is helping to bring the poorest people up or just dragging the entire city down.  Interesting comparison you pointed out.

[marylander1940]

9 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

It seems like someone has a problem with handouts... Taking from successful areas and giving to less successful areas.  It's as if someone acknowledges taking from richer areas and giving funding to poorer areas doesn't lift the poor areas up, it just drags the successful areas down.  I wonder if giving free items to those in need in San Francisco (free drug needles, free shelter in the subway stations, etc) is helping to bring the poorest people up or just dragging the entire city down.  Interesting comparison you pointed out.

 

We agree 50% now. 

for a specific time and to achieve certain goals but not as a lifestyle.

Why folks like her get a free mobility scooter? It's beyond me. 

 

Back to subject: homeless should be locked up and treated, hopefully many will recover but some won't because of their mental illness.

I agree that if someone needs needles... at least he should get treatment. Sleeping in public areas should be illegal and folks who do should get mandatory help and alternatives to doing while as you as you say ruining the lives of others. 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by marylander1940
dyslexia

[Rudynate]

16 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I wouldn't want to live in SF now, under current conditions.  but, I have many fond memories from living there years ago.

historically SF has extreme boom & bust cycles - this is just another one with a different twist.  It always comes back.

It's still the most beautiful American city in a region rich with natural abundance & the best universities in the world.  

I think it's very strange time in the US when many Americans are wishing for the big cities to fail.  As cities are the economic drivers for the nation - be very careful what you wish for. As is typical, people don't understand the consequences.  Kind of like Brexit - all sounded great as a taking point until the reality hit them in the face.  
 

Right-and those of us who’ve been through a few off those cycles know that the city will always come back.  The San Francisco Center is going to be a challenge-the owner walked away from a $750 million mortgage a few months ago.  The city is trying to figure out a way to repurpose the property

[SouthOfTheBorder]

Federal immigration reform is the solution. Yet, when each party has had full control of Congress & White House, they have failed to act.

Lobbyists pay the politicians to do nothing on immigration.  the dirty secret is big business (agriculture, construction, etc) depends on cheap undocumented labor to keep prices low. This is what happens when there are no checks on dark money controlling political outcomes. 

Yes, there are real problems at the border and overall immigration. But, it’s all about the money and not what’s best for the American people. Nothing will change. 

and it’s not just an issue in the cities - that’s just the obvious part of a much bigger national problem.  California is particularly hard hit due to the mild climate & relative compassionate policies that no longer make sense given the scale of the national crisis. 

The current situation in SF is complicated, but a perfect storm of a city with a concentration of tech workers that no longer goes to offices, illegal immigration, a global pandemic, an overwhelming fentanyl crisis, no affordable housing, political incompetence and no care for the mentally ill. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[+ WilliamM]

I was in San Francisco in  1968 and 1969 as well as 1971 -   not completely safe then either.

[marylander1940]

44 minutes ago, WilliamM said:

I was in San Francisco in  1968 and 1969 as well as 1971 -   not completely safe then either.

Most cities in the country in poor and rich states, weren't safe back then either. 

[+ WilliamM]

2 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

Most cities in the country in poor and rich states, weren't safe back then either. 

I was inHaigh Asbury  but left when it got too dark

  1968

Edited December 14, 2023 by WilliamM

[+ WilliamM]

2 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

Most cities in the country in poor and rich states, weren't safe back then either. 

In   some neighborhoods,  yes

[BSR]

19 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

Federal immigration reform is the solution.

You missed the point of my post.  I had no intention of starting a political discussion on immigration.  I was making a broader statement about how residents of failing cities treat their fellow Americans like shit.  When you defecate all over someone, like calling someone a racist simply because they disagree with you, don't expect hearts and flowers in return.

[+ FreshFluff]

On 8/17/2023 at 6:13 PM, BSR said:

Gotta love the entrepreneurial spirit!  From the NY Post:  ""A local guide now offers a “Downtown Doom Loop Walking Tour,” to “start at City Hall, and continue through Mid-Market, the Tenderloin, and Union Square. We will view the open-air drug markets, the abandoned tech offices, the outposts of the nonprofit industrial complex, and the deserted department stores."

I haven't visited San Francisco since 2010, but this really makes me want to go back!

Damn! This tour has been cancelled. I would have made a special trip for this. The drug markets are the best part; I'd probably bounce after that. 
 

One of the board's old timers, @Trixie, posted about meeting companions in the Tenderloin. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by FreshFluff

[EastCoastBtm]

12 hours ago, BSR said:

You missed the point of my post.  I had no intention of starting a political discussion on immigration.  I was making a broader statement about how residents of failing cities treat their fellow Americans like shit.  When you defecate all over someone, like calling someone a racist simply because they disagree with you, don't expect hearts and flowers in return.

And of course this isn't a broad overgeneralization about city and urban dwellers versus the rest of America.  The suburbs and rural areas are apparently shining examples of how Americans should treat each other.

@nate_sf and @mike carey - This thread has turned political.  Please lock it down.