What caused the decay of San Francisco?

[+ augustus]

California has spent billions of dollars to fight homelessness and drug addiction. Where did all that money go??? Consultants and the vast administrative overhead that creates and executes policy.   To connected "Outreach Organizations" who pay their members six figure salaries to hand out useless government pamphlets and ask drug addled vagrants questions expecting honest answers.  It's a joke!  Like the $1.5 million single public toilet in SF that was supposed to be built last year.  It has become an industry that is dependent on the crisis NEVER being resolved with scam nonprofits.  This is a dystopian nightmare.  

Edited June 9, 2023 by augustus

[+ José Soplanucas]

3 hours ago, augustus said:

It has become an industry that is dependent on the crisis NEVER being resolved with scam nonprofits.

Ha, look who understood the essence of Capitalism.

[+ augustus]

6 hours ago, José Soplanucas said:

Ha, look who understood the essence of Capitalism.

This has nothing to do with Capitalism.  It is in fact, those in power that bleed the capitalist system dry and create a never ending cycle of despair and chaos much like Argentina, which borrows constantly from the capitalist system and never wants to pay its debts.

[+ José Soplanucas]

57 minutes ago, augustus said:

 Argentina borrows constantly from the capitalist system and never wants to pay its debts.

That is true! 

But apparently, you think Argentina is not a Capitalist country.

I was so happy when I thought you understood something!

[marylander1940]

Hilton Union Square and Parc 55 owners walking away...

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by marylander1940

[+ augustus]

On 6/9/2023 at 1:52 PM, José Soplanucas said:

That is true! 

But apparently, you think Argentina is not a Capitalist country.

I was so happy when I thought you understood something!

If Argentina was a capitalist country, they wouldn't be having an inflation rate of 100% and an economic crisis every other month.   🙄

[+ José Soplanucas]

53 minutes ago, augustus said:

If Argentina was a capitalist country, they wouldn't be having an inflation rate of 100% and an economic crisis every other month.   🙄

You are bright, man. 

[marylander1940]

On 6/10/2023 at 6:49 PM, augustus said:

If Argentina was a capitalist country, they wouldn't be having an inflation rate of 100% and an economic crisis every other month.   🙄

 

On 6/10/2023 at 7:43 PM, José Soplanucas said:

You are bright, man. 

Back to subject gentlemen:

A formerly 300 million dollar building with bids starting at 60!

 

[samhexum]

Struggling San Francisco takes another big hit as mall owner Westfield flees

The pain is getting deeper for San Francisco as the owners of one of the biggest shopping centers in the city decided to walk away after 20 years, in the face of declining sales, occupancy and foot traffic.

Unibail-Rodamco-Westfield said late on Monday it will transfer its Westfield San Francisco shopping mall to lenders.

The announcement followed Park Hotels & Resorts statement last week that it ceased making payments toward a $725 million mortgage linked to its Hilton San Francisco Union Square and Parc 55 hotels.

I think things will get worse for quite awhile before they start to turn around (which, unfortunately, I think applies to many places and things in the country right now).

Edited June 13, 2023 by samhexum
because he's bored as hell

[Rudynate]

7 minutes ago, samhexum said:

Struggling San Francisco takes another big hit as mall owner Westfield flees

The pain is getting deeper for San Francisco as the owners of one of the biggest shopping centers in the city decided to walk away after 20 years, in the face of declining sales, occupancy and foot traffic.

Unibail-Rodamco-Westfield said late on Monday it will transfer its Westfield San Francisco shopping mall to lenders.

The announcement followed Park Hotels & Resorts statement last week that it ceased making payments toward a $725 million mortgage linked to its Hilton San Francisco Union Square and Parc 55 hotels.

I think things will get worse for quite awhile before they start to turn around (which, unfortunately, I think applies to many places and things in the country right now).

That's actually not a total suprise - San Francisco is usally mobbed with tourists at this time of year.  Just the other day, I was thinking "Where are all the tourists?"

[+ augustus]

And what about the tilt of the Millennium Tower in SF??  Considering the building has shifted so much during construction I cannot imagine that the building will survive any seismic event.  Soft soil conditions are undermining the massive weight shift and you are just a tremor away from a catastrophic failure and thousands of deaths.  That whole area south of market was once a lake.  It is not safe to build high rises on such ground.  This building is a metaphor for San Francisco.  Horrible leadership!

[Rudynate]

1 hour ago, augustus said:

And what about the tilt of the Millennium Tower in SF??  Considering the building has shifted so much during construction I cannot imagine that the building will survive any seismic event.  Soft soil conditions are undermining the massive weight shift and you are just a tremor away from a catastrophic failure and thousands of deaths.  That whole area south of market was once a lake.  It is not safe to build high rises on such ground.  This building is a metaphor for San Francisco.  Horrible leadership!

Several months ago, I read an article about the hotel industry. The author posited that raising rates and cutting back on guest services to recover from the hit they took in the pandemic was going to bite them in the ass. Maybe so.

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

34 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

Several months ago, I read an article about the hotel industry. The author posited that raising rates and cutting back on guest services to recover from the hit they took in the pandemic was going to bite them in the ass. Maybe so.

I could see that happening.  Verifying that daily housekeeping is standard at a hotel is my new post-pandemic routine when booking travel arrangements.

An artical I read today in the Wall Street Journal said that revenue per hotel room in San Francisco is down 23% compared to 2019.  By comparison, New York and Los Angeles have slightly higher revenue per room now than in 2019, albeit with slightly fewer customers.  The artical stated that the primary reasons for the lackluster demand for hotel rooms in San Francisco are the lack of conventions and the reduction of  in-person meetings in the technology industry.  The artical went on to say that convention organizers have cancelled conventions in San Francisco primarily due to high street crime there, and are instead organizing their conventions in other cities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Vegas_Millennial

[+ nycman]

1 hour ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

The artical went on to say that convention organizers have cancelled conventions in San Francisco primarily due to high street crime there, and are instead organizing their conventions in other cities.

Only a moron would schedule a national conference in San Francisco right now. 

The last one I attended there was over a decade ago…it was a nightmare and I vowed never to return. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, nycman said:

Only a moron would schedule a national conference in San Francisco right now. 

The last one I attended there was over a decade ago…it was a nightmare and I vowed never to return. 

Better to let the homeless chase tourists and conventioneers away than to deal with the problem. If there's any money left to be spent, better to spend it on "slavery reparations" than on the truly needy... 😥 Is there a worse example of urban collapse than SF?

[Rudynate]

3 hours ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

I could see that happening.  Verifying that daily housekeeping is standard at a hotel is my new post-pandemic routine when booking travel arrangements.

An artical I read today in the Wall Street Journal said that revenue per hotel room in San Francisco is down 23% compared to 2019.  By comparison, New York and Los Angeles have slightly higher revenue per room now than in 2019, albeit with slightly fewer customers.  The artical stated that the primary reasons for the lackluster demand for hotel rooms in San Francisco are the lack of conventions and the reduction of  in-person meetings in the technology industry.  The artical went on to say that convention organizers have cancelled conventions in San Francisco primarily due to high street crime there, and are instead organizing their conventions in other cities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

A year ago, I stayed at the Fairmont in Dallas. On Sunday, they had no housekeeping, nor food service of any kind, except for crap from the gift store. 

 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

one of the major problems in the US now is there are many people cheering on the urban problems in big cities that they perceive to be run by those with different ideologies or political beliefs. 
It’s truly a unique American phenomenon where citizens are actually all in on the demise of the very places that drive the economy. 

I can’t imagine the same thing happening in Japan with an organized movement to cheer on urban problems in Tokyo or Osaka…or even worse, to celebrate the collapse of a major city. Theyre actually way too smart for that.
As Americans continue to wage war with one another - they’re doing the work of America’s enemies. Typical that everything becomes a talking point for political purposes.  And that’s why the country is circling the drain.  Pathetic 

[samhexum]

8 hours ago, augustus said:

And what about the tilt of the Millennium Tower in SF??  Considering the building has shifted so much during construction I cannot imagine that the building will survive any seismic event.  Soft soil conditions are undermining the massive weight shift and you are just a tremor away from a catastrophic failure and thousands of deaths.  That whole area south of market was once a lake.  It is not safe to build high rises on such ground.  This building is a metaphor for San Francisco.  Horrible leadership!

One earthquake can put San Francisco’s Millennium Tower in danger, engineer says

https://nypost.com/2023/06/13/one-earthquake-can-put-the-leaning-millennium-tower-in-danger/

 

The Millennium Tower, cheekily known as the leaning tower of San Francisco, is in trouble if just one earthquake hits the city, The Post has learned.

Consulting engineer Robert Pyke, who specializes in geotechnical and earthquake engineering, blamed the designer Treadwell & Rollo — a firm that was later acquired by Langan — for the foundation issues, citing a time crunch they were under during the 2008 market crash.

“There’s a real possibility that after an earthquake, the building might be red tagged,” Pyke told The Post of the tower — a 58-story, 419-unit residence that was completed in 2009.

When a building is red tagged it means the structure has been labeled severely damaged to the degree that is too dangerous to inhabit and prohibits entry to the property without written authorization by code enforcement.

Pyke cites the Hayward Fault Zone — a geological zone situated mainly along the western base of the hills on the east side of San Francisco Bay — as capable of generating destructive earthquakes.

“A quake on the Hayward Fault in the East Bay could occur any day,” Pyke said. “And even that Hayward … quake might be large enough to cause some significant rocking of the tool of buildings in San Francisco, like the Millennium Tower. So I think that’s the longer-term risk for the homeowners actually having to at least temporarily move out.”

Additionally, Pyke explained that the tower will never come back to level.

And while a collapse is unlikely, because it would need to tilt “tens of feet” for that to happen, Pyke said, if the tower edges closer to 40 inches, the elevators and the plumbing will stop working, and the residents will also be forced to move out.

The current fix has not worked and will likely not work because of their switch from steel to concrete in their original 2005 build — which makes it heavier and harder to change, Pyke said.

“It turned out not to be okay because the increase in the building weight effective was quite substantial. It was a third or more higher than it had been. And so the technical thing that it did was over stress the Old Bay Clay layer that was below the sand layer.”

Pyke said in order to prevent any more tilting, he would abandon their current fix attempt, which he says “has too many uncertainties.”

Instead he would drill borings (a cutting process that involves the use of a single-point cutting tool or boring head to enlarge an existing hole in a workpiece) on the south and east side of the tower to remove some of the soil in the Old Bay Clay layer in order to level up the building.

“Carefully!” Pyke said.

“This is similar to what was done on the leaning Tower of Pisa. Likely continuing settlement would then cease or slow down so much that it didn’t matter, but if it continued I might look at freezing the Old Bay Clay!”

[LaffingBear]

Was interested to see this topic.  Have to admit, I haven't read the entire thread. I'm a 30-year resident of SF Bay.  Watching SF, and Oakland, slide toward demise is pretty frightening...  I noted someone else write that they feel trapped.  I understand that feeling.  With each new news report, I wonder if the region will collapse.  We would all do well to remember that what's now referred to as the Rust Belt were once thriving cities/regions of this country. 

IMO, there are multiple factors at play.  Ill try to avoid political commentary. (Frame of reference: im blue, pretty liberal, etc) Drugs, unhoused, are mentioned above.  Other factors: ongoing decline of retail, hastened by pandemic.  Work from home culture and it's contribution to decline of the city.  Decriminalization of theft, and laws that "almost" enable criminals.  A history of soaring housing costs, cost-of-living, and therefore some wages... it may never have been sustainable; now its resulted in people who can't afford to stay, or who are trapped because they can't afford to sell.  Add that home-value was a major element of many individuals retirement strategies... and they're watching it collapse.

I'm not sure that a City, Region and State that pursued utopian solutions, mostly through increased taxation, is prepared to implement the necessary solutions.  Even now, as tax revenue diminishes and people flee the state, new tax initiatives are being introduced as solutions: eg, only affecting the very-wealthy, they're trying a new tax on people who leave the State, payable for 10-years after departure.

Stated differently, imo, we're at or rapidly approaching crisis, and I'm skeptical that we're responding accordingly. 

[+ augustus]

Just saw on the news that Oakland businesses don't want to accept cash anymore, just credit and debit cards because they are being robbed so often....OMG!

[+ augustus]

Cinemark multi-plex cinema is shutting down this week in SF.  Too much crime and chaos they said. And Whole Foods shut down last week!

Edited June 15, 2023 by augustus

[pubic_assistance]

2 hours ago, LaffingBear said:

Decriminalization of theft, and laws that "almost" enable criminals. 

Just "almost" ? 🤔

I truly don't understand the end game in this bizarre social experiment.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Just "almost" ? 🤔

I truly don't understand the end game in this bizarre social experiment.

I don't know if that still the case, but the DA a few years ago wouldn't prosecute non-violent crime. So smashing through car windows was fair game. I'd only go to SF for the Opera, which is probably the main thing still going for the city.

[marylander1940]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:11 PM, SouthOfTheBorder said:

one of the major problems in the US now is there are many people cheering on the urban problems in big cities that they perceive to be run by those with different ideologies or political beliefs. 
It’s truly a unique American phenomenon where citizens are actually all in on the demise of the very places that drive the economy. 

I can’t imagine the same thing happening in Japan with an organized movement to cheer on urban problems in Tokyo or Osaka…or even worse, to celebrate the collapse of a major city. Theyre actually way too smart for that.
As Americans continue to wage war with one another - they’re doing the work of America’s enemies. Typical that everything becomes a talking point for political purposes.  And that’s why the country is circling the drain.  Pathetic 

Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.

Abraham Lincoln

I'm not sure if you remember a time when everybody knew Japan would be the most powerful economy in the world? I don't think Japan since the 90's has been a good example when it comes to many things and for the record never a former enemy offered a hand of friendship like the USA did with Japan and helped him recover from WW2. 

The same system of lending (Marshall Plan) money was applied to 3rd world countries for decades, unfortunately with different results because of lack of work ethic, corruption, no social mobility, etc. 

On 6/9/2023 at 3:04 AM, augustus said:

California has spent billions of dollars to fight homelessness and drug addiction. Where did all that money go??? Consultants and the vast administrative overhead that creates and executes policy.   To connected "Outreach Organizations" who pay their members six figure salaries to hand out useless government pamphlets and ask drug addled vagrants questions expecting honest answers.  It's a joke!  Like the $1.5 million single public toilet in SF that was supposed to be built last year.  It has become an industry that is dependent on the crisis NEVER being resolved with scam nonprofits.  This is a dystopian nightmare.  

It's called the Homeless Industrial Complex. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by marylander1940

[BSR]

On 6/13/2023 at 7:11 PM, SouthOfTheBorder said:

one of the major problems in the US now is there are many people cheering on the urban problems in big cities that they perceive to be run by those with different ideologies or political beliefs. 
It’s truly a unique American phenomenon where citizens are actually all in on the demise of the very places that drive the economy. 

I can’t imagine the same thing happening in Japan with an organized movement to cheer on urban problems in Tokyo or Osaka…or even worse, to celebrate the collapse of a major city. Theyre actually way too smart for that.
As Americans continue to wage war with one another - they’re doing the work of America’s enemies. Typical that everything becomes a talking point for political purposes.  And that’s why the country is circling the drain.  Pathetic 

For years if not decades, San Franciscans called anyone who disagreed with them racist, white supremacist, stupid, bigoted, hate-filled, and so on.  Now that San Francisco is going to hell in a handbasket, thanks to their own "enlightened" policies, do you really expect those of us SFans smeared as racist monsters to extend our hands and sing Kumbaya?