Spanish Immersion Program

[Rudynate]

I did a 3-week immersion course in German a few years ago. It is stunning how fast you improve.  I had already had a lot of exposure to German and I was hoping the immersion course would get me closer to being fluent.  I didnt't acccomplish that, but I watch movies, TV series and news in German all the time and understand most of it.

[pubic_assistance]

8 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

I watch movies, TV series and news in German all the time and understand most of it.

I keep my German speaking skills fresh by watching German show too.
It's somewhat frustrating when you're more fluent because you see all the mistakes they make in the closed caption translations !

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Pensant said:

Speaking of the Colombian accent, the last time I was with one he mentioned that he was from Medellin, pronouncing it med-a-jean.

 

1 hour ago, azdr0710 said:

that's very interesting......I'm curious if that pronunciation is considered to be a more-educated/upper-class way of saying the word......or is the conventional local pronunciation......or???........typically, of course, the traditional 'y'-sound for 'll' would be correct......

Most Spanish-speakers (including almost all Mexicans and central Americans, and most Colombians) pronounce "ll" and "y" the same, which is called yeismo. Unlike the situation in England, pronunciation differences are determined mostly by country or region (or even city), rather than by social class. As for the English, if they're not speaking in the upper class "received" pronunciation, I can't understand what the F they're saying. The areas with yeismo are in dark blue:

Yeísmo - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

"...Over 90% of Spanish speakers exhibit this phonemic merger... By 1989, several traditionally non-yeísta areas, such as Bogotá and much of Spain and the Canaries, had begun rapidly adopting yeísmo, in the timespan of little more than a single generation. In areas where yeísmo is variable, [ʎ] is lost more often in rapid and casual speech...In Spain, most of the northern half of the country and several areas in the south, particularly in rural Huelva, Seville, Cadiz, and part of the Canaries used to retain the distinction, but yeísmo has spread throughout the country, and the distinction is now lost in most of Spain, particularly outside areas in linguistic contact with Catalan and Basque. In monolingual, urban northern Spain, a distinction between /ʝ/ and /ʎ/ only exists among the oldest age groups in the upper classes..."

Edited April 5, 2023 by Unicorn

[Rudynate]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

I keep my German speaking skills fresh by watching German show too.
It's somewhat frustrating when you're more fluent because you see all the mistakes they make in the closed caption translations !

I notice the same thing.  All the time, I'm telling my husband - "They didn't get that right at all." 

[pubic_assistance]

12 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

"They didn't get that right at all."

Yup.

I don't know who does these German translations but they destroy the "poetic" essence of the phrase and turn it into the most generic words possible.

"My heart is broken at the loss of your love" will be translated as "I'm sad to see you go".

[MscleLovr]

18 hours ago, menaughty said:

really love Barcelona and would love to learn their but I dont want to learn Spain's spanish

To answer the OP, I learned at a language school in Barcelona. Immersion is a good way to learn quickly but it is tiring. 
 

It is generally held in Spain that the Catalans have the purest accent in speaking Castilian (Castellano) and that is why schools in Barcelona were recommended.

One small point. Spain has 3 official languages: Castilian, Catalan and Galician. (The Basque language, Euskadi, is deemed a dialect).

[+ José Soplanucas]

6 hours ago, Pensant said:

Don’t forget the use of Gallego in Galicia!

I did not forget. Although Catalán, Vasco, and Gallego are the three most famous languages spoken in Spain besides Castellano, other regional languages exist (Valenciano, p.e.), but as Gallego, they are dying. 

Catalán is alive thanks to the cultural and economic power of the region, which supports a strong nationalist and separatist culture. The situation with Euskera (Vasco) is similar, but with an addition. Its origin is a linguistic mystery, and academic research came to strengthen the factors common with Catalunya. I do not think the nationalist culture is as strong in Galicia as in the Pais Vasco and Catalunya.

[+ José Soplanucas]

7 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Yes,

I do miss the politics forum.

BUT my comment was more sociological ( which politicians tend to use as a political tool ) but not truly political.

I was a little shocked that anyone feels comfortable these days to declare that the country full of white people are far better looking than the country full of indigenous people.

Not even discussing  whether there's a truth in the matter.

More curious how this is socially acceptable, in today's woke society trends.

Back to the topic...I agree that Columbians tend to speak Spanish in a clear and easy to understand version that suits a Latin American take on the language. Castillian always sounds grandiose and pretensious in comparison.

 

Bull shit. Your ignorance and your fondness for spreading falsehoods are unsurprising. Colombia is not a country full of White people as much as Mexico is not a country full of Indigenous people. You are just picking what you want to see (as usual) to back your falsehoods. 

So bad the Politics forums is hidden. Your pro-White racism is well-documented there.

Perhaps you think that Colombia is full of Whites because you do not recognize the particular mestizo mix in the region, which is quite different from the Mexican mix.  

[Rudynate]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

Yup.

I don't know who does these German translations but they destroy the "poetic" essence of the phrase and turn it into the most generic words possible.

"My heart is broken at the loss of your love" will be translated as "I'm sad to see you go".

Ive noticed the same thing.  If they had translated the German more literally, instead of taking such liberties, it would have captured the spirit of the German dialog better.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MscleLovr said:

...

It is generally held in Spain that the Catalans have the purest accent in speaking Castilian (Castellano) and that is why schools in Barcelona were recommended.

One small point. Spain has 3 official languages: Castilian, Catalan and Galician. (The Basque language, Euskadi, is deemed a dialect).

I'd love to know where you come up with your "information." There is only one official language in Spain, though Catalan, Basque, Galician, and Aranese have co-official status in certain regions. Basque could not possibly be a dialect of anything, since it a language isolate--it has no known related languages on the planet (in fact, I once read a suggestion that extraterrestrials introduced that language). It bears zero similarity to Spanish (unlike Catalan, which is similar). Galician is very similar to Portuguese, and some linguists would consider Galician a dialect of Portuguese. Those two languages are mutually intelligible. 

Languages of Spain - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

"Most languages spoken in Spain belong to the Romance language family, of which Spanish is the only language which has official status for the whole country. Various other languages have co-official or recognized status in specific territories... 

Distribution of the regional co-official languages in Spain:

• Aranese, a variety of Occitan co-official in Catalonia.^[8] It is spoken in the Pyrenean comarca of the Aran Valley (Val d'Aran), in north-western Catalonia. It is a variety of Gascon, a southwestern dialect of the Occitan language.
• Basque, co-official in the Basque Country and northern Navarre (see Basque-speaking zone). Basque is the only non-Romance language (as well as non-Indo-European) with an official status in mainland Spain.
• Catalan, co-official in Catalonia and in the Balearic Islands. It is recognised but not official in Aragon, in the area of La Franja. Outside of Spain, it is the official language of Andorra; it is also spoken in the Pyrénées-Orientales department in southernmost France, and in the city of Alghero on the island of Sardinia, where it's co-official with Italian.^[9]
• Valencian (variety of Catalan), co-official in the Valencian Community. Not all areas of the Valencian Community, however, are historically Valencian-speaking, particularly the western side. It is also spoken without official recognition in the area of Carche, Murcia.
• Galician, co-official in Galicia and recognised, but not official, in the adjacent western parts of the Principality of Asturias (as Galician-Asturian) and Castile and León..."

[BSR]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:40 PM, menaughty said:

Thank you so much everyone for an amazing and informative input.

I am thinking to do Mexico or Colombia but now I gotta choose the city and the program.

I really love Barcelona and would love to learn their but I dont want to learn Spain's spanish 😂. I prefer Latin American Spanish. Idk if it's because I live in Texas and I am so accustomed to Mexican spanish or it's my love for latin american music since childhood. I am not a complete beginner. I can do small convos in Spanish.

I've heard a theory that listening to music helps open your mind to better learn a language.  Proponents of this theory suggest you listen to music in the language you're studying before attending class, doing homework, etc.  Dont know if that's true or not.  If it is, great!  Even if it's not, you love Latin American music anyway, so hardly time wasted.

When you return to the US after your immersion program, follow @Rudynate's advice and watch Spanish-language TV & movies to keep your Spanish up.  About 10 years ago, I ran into 3 Spanish tourists who were looking for advice from a Las Vegas local.  Unfortunately, my Spanish had gotten so rusty that while I could understand them just fine, I couldn't speak to them in Spanish (eek!).  I had to speak English even though their English wasn't very good.  I was so depressed that my español had turned to sh*t, but I had no idea how to recover it since I wasn't in a position to hop back to Spain for a month or two.

Then ~8 years ago, I happed upon a Spanish TV series on the Internet and noticed how quickly it knocked the rust off.  I made it a point to watch something in Spanish every day:  some days hours of binging, others just a 10-minute YouTube video , but I never miss a day.  Thanks to my hobby, I am far more fluent now than at the end of my year in Salamanca, and my listening comprehension is 10x better.  You'll learn little if any slang, idiomatic expressions, and colloquialisms in class, but you'll learn tons & tons watching TV & movies. 

Also, Spaniards (or Mexicans or Colombians or ... ) have one way of speaking with foreigners (more slowly, simpler vocabulary, clearer pronunciation, no slang/colloquialisms) and a very different way when speaking with each other.  Even if you're friends with native speakers, they'll speak differently with you (perhaps not consciously, but they will).  If you want to understand real-world Spanish, you gotta watch TV.

Best of luck with finding the city/country right for you.  Whether Colombia or Mexico, Medellín or Mexico City (or San Miguel de Allende or Bogotá or ... ), I'm sure you'll have a great experience.

Edited April 6, 2023 by BSR
Typo

[Colton]

I’m surprised Argentina doesn’t have many supporters on this forum.  Having just come back from there, I found BA to be a beautiful city and very affordable, especially if you are a foreigner and can take advantage of the favorable black market exchange rate for dollars/euros. 
 

Plus Argentinians aren’t required to learn English in school, so you will be forced to use your Spanish outside of tourist areas.  

[Rudynate]

9 hours ago, MscleLovr said:

To answer the OP, I learned at a language school in Barcelona. Immersion is a good way to learn quickly but it is tiring. 
 

It is generally held in Spain that the Catalans have the purest accent in speaking Castilian (Castellano) and that is why schools in Barcelona were recommended.

One small point. Spain has 3 official languages: Castilian, Catalan and Galician. (The Basque language, Euskadi, is deemed a dialect).

My intensive German class at the Goethe Institut was 9 hours every day - very tiring.  One company I worked at we had lots of European management and engineers, who divided their time between Europe and the US.  They were all fluent in English, but even fluent speakers said it was tiring to speak English for an entire workday.

[MscleLovr]

It’s clear @Unicorn that you have had a hard time adjusting to retirement and miss being granted respect by the indigent patients in the clinic you used to reference so often. I do feel, however, you could be more mature and just disagree politely as an adult.
 

Your ponderous responses, with inappropriate illustrations and quoting large chunks of Wikipedia, simply come across as snarky and dismissive. I certainly hope that you are not the same in person.

11 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I'd love to know where you come up with your "information."

From living in Spain, owning property there and dealing with officialdom.

 

11 hours ago, Unicorn said:

There is only one official language in Spain

Not so. As I stated, there are 3 languages that have official status (Castilian, Catalan and Galician).
 

There are indeed Spanish citizens who are intransigent and dislike being spoken to, or having to read menus, in Catalan when they visit Catalonia, the Balearic Islands etc. I have witnessed several such linguistic arguments. 

 

11 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Basque could not possibly be a dialect of anything

If you had read carefully, you’d acknowledge that I stated it is “deemed a dialect”.
 

The language of the Basque Country (Euskadi) has been controversial. Some separatists have sought official status for it.  There was considerable disruption some years ago in the National Parliament when some tried to use it in a formal session.

12 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Galician, and Aranese have co-official status

The language spoken in Galicia (Gallego) is officially recognised. But it’s simply absurd of you to include Aranese.

I can’t recall the exact figure from the last census but less than 4000 people speak it. All of whom would readily respond in Catalan.
 

Similarly, Catalans and Occitan-speakers in France easily understand each other. When to my surprise, I met some Occitan-speakers in southern France, we chatted easily in Catalan and they told me they often switched to Occitan when they were dealt with rudely by French citizens visiting from other parts of France.

[+ Pensant]

Wow, this simple topic has devolved into a sniping match.

[+ Lucky]

I took Conversational Spanish about 5 different times. A friend and I spent a week in Guadalajara studying Spanish and then went to Puerto Vallarta for a week to practice. As you might guess, no one in PV had the patience and they all spoke to us in English.

But once in Acapulco a guy I had met said that my Spanish was horrible. I responded that it was good enough to get him in my bed and he laughingly agreed.

Funny story about him. He is one of 17 children. I asked him if his family knew that he was gay, and he said he told his mother who responded "That's okay. Your father is too!" And he did once see his father in a gay club!

Edited April 6, 2023 by Lucky

[+ José Soplanucas]

Suppose anyone is considering Buenos Aires, which is a great option to learn the Spanish spoken in the South Cone, specifically in the Rio de la Plata region. In that case, I strongly recommend the Laboratorio de Idiomas de la Universidad de Buenos Aires.

The UBA is a very prestigious academic institution (internationally prestigious), and its Lab is a hub attracting learners of all languages and ages. Three decades ago, when I started to learn English, I attended this school.

It is a public, utterly free university in all of its undergraduate schools and desperately seeks additional funding. The Lab is one of these additional funds sources, as they can charge for the enrollment. In my time, the Lab was inside the Facultad de Filosofía y Letras. I am confident that in these three decades, they improved the experience or mirrored it in other branches. The UBA may also be offering the service in other schools (Facultades). If the UBA endorses it, it is reliable.

They specially cared about the courses offered to foreigners learning Spanish, as it is legal to have a differentiated fee for Mercosur citizens. They would get relatively a lot of funding from Europeans and North Americans taking the classes.

As it was very popular and demanded institution, you were able to mingle with a very diverse crowd, diverse in all aspects. I hooked up so many times there. One of the things many would do was offer an exchange: I teach you Spanish, you teach me (fill in your target language). So native speakers of two languages had the chance to teach each other outside of a classroom setting. I made several American and British friendships. We would meet and chat half of the time in one language to then switch to the other in different environments. 

I am not sure, but I am confident this experience can be replicated in any big city if you resist the temptation to hang out with your own language speakers and instead mingle with the locals. 

[jackboy48]

About 20 years ago I took several vacations to Cuernavaca in the mountains just outside of Mexico City, and studied at the Universidad Internacional. They have a variety of immersion programs for teaching the Spanish language. One year I traveled with the Road Scholars, but other times I went alone and stayed with a family that was arranged through the school. The classes were always very small, rarely more than 5, with 1;1 tutoring available, and frequent assessments, so that you were always with others at the same level. There are many programs and schools for teaching Spanish in Cuernavaca, which makes the community very welcoming and generally easy to navigate. My classmates at the Universidad came from all over the world, as they had programs for multinational companies that wanted to do business in Mexico.  There is a very well established gay community, so always a few bars and clubs, and the city has benefited from the generosity of many gay patrons over the years. The Universidad often arranges special excursions and other events. My favorite was always visiting Teopanzolco. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, MscleLovr said:

... disagree politely...

I'm sorry, but where factual matters are concerned, one cannot speak of "opinion" or "agreement." There is simply right and wrong. Your listing of co-official languages was simply factually wrong. These are codified by law, and not subject to your personal "opinion." There is a link to that law in the Wikipedia entry above, although it's in Spanish, of course. You were free to correct me if the law has changed since that entry was made. However, as usual, when I come up with factual references, the best you can do is come up with personal insults rather than a link which would support your position. Falling back on "Well, that's just my (or your) opinion..." is merely sophism and misdirection. Facts are facts. If you know something I don't, and my source of information is outdated, I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong. Otherwise, the mature thing for you to do would have been to admit you made up your prior statement, instead of relying on ad hominem attacks. 

As for basque being a dialect, it's difficult for me to fathom the depths of how factually wrong that statement is. It's not only wrong as a matter of law. Your misstatement also shows complete lack of understanding of either what a dialect is, or what the Basque language is like. Since you don't know, a dialect is "a regional variety of language distinguished by features of vocabulary, grammar, and pronunciation from other regional varieties and constituting together with them a single language."

Definition of DIALECT

WWW.MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM

---

a regional variety of language distinguished by features of vocabulary, grammar, and pronunciation from other regional varieties and constituting… See the full definition

Basque bears no similarity to Spanish, or any other language on the planet, so can never be considered a dialect. Ever.

    

You can get @MikeBiDude and @mike carey to stick up their thumbs for your ad hominem attacks until their thumbs get gangrene. 

That does not change the facts in this case. I will definitely take the mature road and will absolutely fess up and admit I was factually wrong if I'm presented with evidence that my source was outdated. I suspect you won't, but you can take that as a challenge.

[Xavitv]

Hope the OP has so much fun on his basque immersion programe. Should be a great experience. 

[liubit]

Native Spanish speaker here. I highly recommend the Universidad Internacional in Cuernavaca (Mexico), mentioned by @jackboy48 above ☝️☝️ Their immersion programs are very successful, and living with a family certainly helps to acquire fluency. That’s where my German husband learned Spanish, and I know that many foreign diplomats have studied there before starting their assignment in Mexico. 

Buena suerte, @menaughty .

[alrajee]

I don’t have an answer to the OP but I’d like to share my experience. The closest I’ve done to a Spanish immersion is the six weeks that I spent in Puerto Rico, working remotely. Great experience, and my command of the language improved because of it.

I study Spanish through italki. My first tutor was from Vitoria, then when he stopped offering lessons after a year, I went with a mix of Venezuelan, Mexican, and Colombian tutors. I still lisp at times and say vosotros instead of ustedes, but it’s not a big deal—at least my interlocutor says as much.

The most important part of language learning, for me, is forcing yourself to make conversations, irrespective of length and vocabulary. That’s why I could never get behind apps since it’s passive; I’m not being asked to think on my feet. Admittedly, I had to switch to English a few times when I was in Puerto Rico, either by fatigue or I simply did not know enough relevant words to string together a sentence, but at least I got into the zone of thinking and comprehending in Spanish.

Aside 1: I learned French from France. While I can talk to the Belgians, Swiss, or Luxembourgers no problem, I have yet to do such with a Quebecois.

Aside 2: Do they speak Spanish in the Philippines? @Unicorn your maps have me wondering if Spanish is more than just a lexifier in the country…

[pubic_assistance]

5 hours ago, alrajee said:

The closest I’ve done to a Spanish immersion is the six weeks that I spent in Puerto Rico, working remotely

That's an interesting choice. Nearly all of my Spanish speaking friends always joke that they can't understand Puerto Ricans because their accent is so strong and they "swallow" so many syllables, that it becomes unintelligible to anyone unfamiliar with that island accent.

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, alrajee said:

....Aside 1: I learned French from France. While I can talk to the Belgians, Swiss, or Luxembourgers no problem, I have yet to do such with a Quebecois.

Aside 2: Do they speak Spanish in the Philippines? @Unicorn your maps have me wondering if Spanish is more than just a lexifier in the country…

I've never been to the Philippines, but my understanding is that only a small percentage of people there speak Spanish. The Spanish Empire ceded that country to the US as a result of the Spanish-American War at the end of the 19th Century (they gained their independence from the US shortly after WW2). Tagalog and English are the official languages of the archipelago, although there are many other "recognized languages," Spanish being one of them. When I was in practice, I used to have lots of Filipino patients, and some spoke NEITHER Tagalog nor English. Some spoke only Visayan, Ilocano, or even less common languages. I once even encountered a patient who spoke only English. He told me his parents had told him that Tagalog was a language for the "lower classes"! I certainly never met one who only spoke Spanish.

While the choice of where to learn Spanish is mostly one of personal preference, there is a much more significant difference between Canadian French and standard French (French is also spoken in many cities in New Brunswick and even Nova Scotia, not just Quebec). Certainly, it can be easier to understand some Spanish speakers over other depending on where on learned Spanish. American Airlines, for example, often offers the choice of dubbing in Castilian or Latin American Spanish on their in-flight movies. However, Canadians cannot usually be understood by the French during their casual speech, and when French Canadian shows are shown on French TV, they come with subtitles. 

I suspect that most French Canadians have enough exposure to French movies and TV that they can "turn down" the French Canadian if they want to. I noticed that the host for Drag Race Belgique was actually a French Canadian, Rita Baga. Although she still has a strong accent, she has been able to turn off the Canadian vocabulary so that she could be understood by the contestants, fellow judges, and audience. 

I do agree with @pubic_assistance that Caribbean speakers tend to "swallow" their syllables. That's probably a polite way of saying they tend to slur their words. To me, a Caribbean Spanish speaker sounds like a drunk Mexican or Colombian. I personally cannot distinguish a Puerto Rican from a Cuban or Dominican by the way they speak Spanish, but maybe they can amongst themselves. I have no idea how to tell Aussies from Kiwis by their accent, but apparently those two can tell each other apart by the way they talk. The only thing I can recall that distinguishes the two is that in NZ's South island, the word "tennis" rhymes with "penis." I remember jumping out of my seat in Christchurch when our tour guide described a "tennis tournament," and I thought he said "penis tournament." 😁

[alrajee]

5 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

That's an interesting choice. Nearly all of my Spanish speaking friends always joke that they can't understand Puerto Ricans because their accent is so strong and they "swallow" so many syllables, that it becomes unintelligible to anyone unfamiliar with that island accent.

 

My passport only had two months left before it was to expire, and I didn’t submit renewal docs in time. Since leaving the country isn’t important, I decided to stay stateside.

My Spanish level isn’t at the level yet that I would be able to distinguish among Latin American “flavors” unfortunately. Although you’re probably right that they tend to swallow their words more than others.