When Is An Appointment Considered "Booked"

[NYCgymfitNEW]

Hey guys... this is a genuine question.  I will be interested in getting your thoughts.  I just had an interaction with a provider that turned - well nasty - actually.   I always like to see what I could have done differently - if anything - or is this really someone's issue.

I was planning a business trip about a week before the trip was supposed to take place.  I reached out to a few providers in the city that looked like a match.

I reached out to one - and said - I was planning a business trip for the following week and that although I wasn't sure how the schedule was going to shake out... if it went as I had hoped - Friday or Saturday would be my availability.  Asked whether he would be available in there - and rates etc.  I closed with "I will get back to you when I have more details."

My boss - being my boss -kept changing plans so I could not - in my view - finalise anything.  The provider reached out on Thursday with a ?.  I didn't answer it because I still didn't know.  On Friday - the plans changed.  The provider reached out again - and I said that I was sorry but the venue changed and I would not be around.

He was incredibly angry.  In his view, I had "scheduled" an appointment.  The text stream was - wild.  From his perspective - he had traveled to this city because people told him they wanted to hire him - but almost everyone canceled that week.  I can't speak to that.  The texting went on for a while - and he said he wanted to talk to me on the phone - which I agreed to do.  

He read me the riot act - pretty aggressively - about bothering people when I wasn't sure of my schedule. That in his view it was definitely happening on Friday or Saturday.  My view was - it isn't considered a booking until we have a date, time and place.

I offered half his fee - trying to see it from his standpoint - which he said was not enough.  I did not feel that I had done anything that warranted a full fee.

I have never had a provider get that angry before.  I really respect the work providers do - this was surprising to me.  When I have given less than 24 hours notice for an actual appointment where we have agreed on a date, time and place - I have paid.  Thoughts?  

Edited November 20, 2022 by NYCgymfitNEW

[nate_sf]

I agree with you, an appointment is not booked until a date, time and place have been confirmed.

Recently I was traveling and there were a couple of clients in your position of not having full control of their schedules. Both told me they'd understand if I would be making other arrangements given their inability to commit to a date and time. I thought that was fine. In the end I was able to accommodate one once his schedule stabilized, but not the other.

It can be difficult for the providers when prospective clients are not able to confirm, but it also goes with the territory. This is true of any service trade, or sales for that matter - the deal isn't sealed until it's fully confirmed. If someone can't deal with that, they should find another line of work that offers a predictable salary.

Your policy for paying for canceled appointments is very respectable btw.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

That was nice that you offered half the fee. Not sure how much that half was that isn’t “enough”, but it’s a reasonable gesture for the situation.

Other than that, this is why I only travel/see clients with deposits nowadays. Unless I really have some other reason to be in that particular city. I won’t say it’s his fault for not making sure clients were more confirmed but, this can be an issue when touring places and trying to schedule people. Not to mention: it seems guys who pay for “time” are often very limited on time. 
 

I understand those who come to us often have full and busy lives but, the clients also have to make room and  prioritize their escort meets. Often times, I’m working with clients who want to fit me in to different things they have going on, on short notice. Or if you’re not sure about your travel, and know it may fluctuate: don’t start reaching out yet until you’re at the airport. Also don’t contact multiple providers, contact one at a time. 

No need to spend hours back and forth. Have typed up what you want to do/spend and your location…ask the guy you want and book. It should only take 15 minutes, or 4-5 texts Max. If the one you want doesn’t respond, text again in about an hour to ensure message was received. Don’t contact a odd hours (some clients text me first thing in the morning, and I don’t really like to start my morning answering inquiries unless it’s for a client who’s booked from the night before). 
 

I know it seems reasonable to book in advance, but booking in advance works best when things are not in the hands of a third party (in this case, the boss who changed the plans).

Edited November 20, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[MscleLovr]

If I may, as a client in the past, comment, I’d say you definitely did NOT have a date scheduled @NYCgymfitNEW  Otherwise, why did the provider query it? 

1 hour ago, NYCgymfitNEW said:

The provider reached out on Thursday with a ?.

In these circumstances I would pay NOTHING to the provider.
 

My only small criticism of you is that you might have responded to the query straightaway, saying Sorry, my plans are being changed by my boss so I cannot confirm yet. I still hope to see you if I’m able to be there.

I wouldn’t worry about the provider’s anger. It seems to me that possibly he was taking his business-frustration with others out on you. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by MscleLovr

[jeezifonly]

You did not book.

You inquired.

He inquired back and you should have answered his ? on Thurs, even to say your schedule still in flux, and he should not reject other bookings.
The principle behind a deposit is the provider saying “I am holding this time open exclusively for you so long as you show up on time” and that doesn’t work in every situation.

Working OOT and having ability incorporate your own social calendar in that locale is always tricky. I lied to my boss once about having to meet up w/ a cousin before she was sent to new job abroad, and it all worked out fine, I had my appointment and I was sent to the moon!!!! 

 

[NYCgymfitNEW]

Thanks guys.  I am actually a fan of the "deposit" - and suggested to this guy he start implementing it since apparently he had what he thought was going to be a weeks worth of clients disappear.  

My takeaways are - to be more clear that I am - "not booked until we have a date, time and place confirmed" and that the provider is free to book anyone else in the meantime.

Love the forum.  You guys are the best.

 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

52 minutes ago, jeezifonly said:

You did not book.

You inquired.

He inquired back and you should have answered his ? on Thurs, even to say your schedule still in flux, and he should not reject other bookings.
The principle behind a deposit is the provider saying “I am holding this time open exclusively for you so long as you show up on time” and that doesn’t work in every situation.

Working OOT and having ability incorporate your own social calendar in that locale is always tricky. I lied to my boss once about having to meet up w/ a cousin before she was sent to new job abroad, and it all worked out fine, I had my appointment and I was sent to the moon!!!! 

 

This is kind of one of those topics that, it seems both parties didn’t communicate or state intent well, which led to resentment. I’ve been there, which is why the deposit principle is also there to further solidify: is this an actual appointment request, or is it just an inquiry possibility.

Inquiry possibilities always sounds good on paper, but it’s nothing to plan a day, travel or life. I got tired of that. I don’t think it has to be part of the business, I just think people have to present boundaries and options. This can be done even without a deposit.

1 example could be, “if you want to book me for your trip, I would need to know by Thursday at 6 p.m. (if your boss is still fidgeting around, then counter back a different timeframe, or find out the best you can) If I don’t hear anything by then, I’m not going to be available and/or I’ll make my own plans. That way, if the OP have not responded Thursday: he would have been instantly deprioritized. A ? Is the least possible initiating in world history. The escort should not have communicated like that, especially in an urgent response circumstance. If you have a question, just f-ing ask. Stop playing games.

As I’ve said before: part of this is the RentMen platform not giving us opportunity to share enough info. But, it’s still up to us to do the communicating, 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[NYCgymfitNEW]

2 hours ago, MscleLovr said:

If I may, as a client in the past, comment, I’d say you definitely did NOT have a date scheduled @NYCgymfitNEW  Otherwise, why did the provider query it? 

In these circumstances I would pay NOTHING to the provider.
 

My only small criticism of you is that you might have responded to the query straightaway, saying Sorry, my plans are being changed by my boss so I cannot confirm yet. I still hope to see you if I’m able to be there.

I wouldn’t worry about the provider’s anger. It seems to me that possibly he was taking his business-frustration with others out on you. 

Yes I agree.  I should have responded to the "?" - even just to say - still in flux so don't wait for me.  But - also - given the comments here - I don't think I did anything particularly shitty.  I think, as someone else pointed out, that he didn't actually lock down his appointments, made a trip to the city and was upset and angry by the time the week was done.  And - I pissed him off too.  I get it.  

[NYCgymfitNEW]

1 minute ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

This is kind of one of those topics that, it seems both parties didn’t communicate or state intent well, which led to resentment. I’ve been there, which is why the deposit principle is also there to further solidify: is this an actual appointment request, or is it just an inquiry possibility.

Inquiry possibilities always sounds good on paper, but it’s nothing to plan a day, travel or life. I got tired of that. I don’t think it has to be part of the business, I just think people have to present boundaries and options. This can be done even without a deposit.

1 example could be, “if you want to book me for your trip, I would need to know by Thursday at 6 p.m. (if your boss is still fidgeting around, then counter back a different timeframe, or find out the best you can) If I don’t hear anything by then, I’m not going to be available and/or I’ll make my own plans. That way, if the OP have not responded Thursday: he would have been instantly deprioritized. A ? Is the least possible initiating in world history. People need to stop communicating like that. If you have a question, just fucking ask. Stop playing games. 

As I’ve said before: part of this is the RentMen platform not giving us opportunity to share enough info. But, it’s still up to us to do the communicating, 

I agree with you.  I think deposits are the way to go.  When I suggested that to the provider for the future - he went off on a rant that if he requires deposits he won't get the clients - which - i disagree with - but - at that point he was not going to hear anything I said.  Thank you for your thoughtful and helpful response.

[Guest leftbench23]

Even if an appointment is booked, I always confirm about two hours before hand to make sure. If I don’t hear back, then I assume it’s a no go.

[Jamie21]

Nothing is booked until the date, time and location are confirmed and agreed. Otherwise it’s just an enquiry. Clients ask me if I’m available on certain days that might align with their travel plans. This is sensible as I might be away or busy so I understand why clients check. But we agree that until they definitively book the time might be taken by someone else. 

I think your provider was unprofessional. Probably annoyed after a series of cancellations which I can empathise with but it’s still not right to take out his annoyance on you. It’s an inherent problem of his modus operandi and he should either adjust his approach by taking deposits before travelling or simply get out of the business if his model causes him that much trouble. You were generous offering to pay him half. 

[+ DrownedBoy]

My policy is that you have an appointment when you agree on place, time, fee, and payment method. I ask, "Do we have a deal?" If they say yes, I consider it a verbal contract.

From that point on, the deal cannot be changed without the consent of both parties. I often get new escorts who try to add conditions at the last moment (they assume I'm horny and lack self control). That's a violation of contract, and I usually cancel the appointment if they try that. Since they broke a contract, they are not entitled to a cancellation fee.

Please note what was said earlier. When the provider texted you a "?," the polite thing would have been to tell him why you hadn't finalized a deal. If you don't like getting ghosted by providers, don't ghost them.

[handiacefailure]

I wouldn't offer him anything personally, escorts never offer me a fee when they cancel or change the appotinment time.   You did nothing wrong.

You were upfront and unless an exact time and location is locked down, I don't consider that booked.

I do agree with the other posters though that you should have responded to the ? text  

 

 

[NYCgymfitNEW]

Update:  He came back requesting the "half fee" I offered that he initially refused. 

I will pay it just to - be done. And - also - as posters have suggested - I should have responded to his "?" - and it is clear that he had a very bad week.  I am a fan of taking responsibility for the part that is mine - and not taking responsibility for the things that are not. 

In the future I will be clear that I am not "booking" until I am ready to "book" - and that I am "inquiring" not booking.  This was an anomaly - most providers I have worked with in the past have actually been very professional.    

I would imagine being a provider can be very stressful - and it's not for everyone.  He should probably set up a "way of working", including deposits, and boundaries and not put the onus on the clients.  

Edited November 21, 2022 by NYCgymfitNEW

[Jarrod_Uncut]

5 hours ago, handiacefailure said:

I wouldn't offer him anything personally, escorts never offer me a fee when they cancel or change the appotinment time.   You did nothing wrong.

You were upfront and unless an exact time and location is locked down, I don't consider that booked.

I do agree with the other posters though that you should have responded to the ? text  

 

 

That’s because you aren’t looking to get paid. You’re looking for the service. You may not gain the *ex from that particular provider, but the escort regardless of who cancels, loses *ex and money. so people need to stop using that analogy. 

 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

9 hours ago, NYCgymfitNEW said:

he went off on a rant that if he requires deposits he won't get the clients - which - i disagree with -

I disagree too. But, it takes awhile to decide whether someone wants to have a steady stream of maybe 🤔 clients, or those who are a sure thing.

Like I’ve said before: I used to operate on whoever shows, shows: but my life situation right now doesn’t allow that. With midgrade gas at $3.50+ and mediocre hotels asking $50/$100/$250 deposits (seen this last month in Denver), I can’t take chances like I used to. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

5 hours ago, NYCgymfitNEW said:

I don't think he's cut out for this industry. He should probably think about doing something else... or as some of the providers here responded - set up a "way of working", including deposits, and boundaries and not put the onus on the clients.  

Well, in reality you can’t really dictate what someone “should” do. Being a sex worker isn’t always a profession where people get a chance to be interviewed and  “qualified” for by a recruiting agent. Guys have their reasons for needing to get into it, all the logistical street smarts don’t necessarily come right away. It take months and YEARS of experience. You can’t expect a sex worker to come into the game knowing everything and being perfectly business savvy. Maybe YOU need to not hire escorts, and deal with the sea of last minute possibilities, flakes and “inquiries” on hookup apps?

You sound like a sweet guy, and even your screenname sounds hot 😉 but…as I said before: you weren’t necessarily an Angel yourself. You knew you had a flaky boss, you reached out to a bunch of guys haphazardly, and someone got annoyed. That’s not his fault. Like I said: next time wait until you’re at the airport. Or better yet, when your boss has booked your ticket or whatever. Don’t try to get ahead by making tentative plans. Look around, take notes of who you want to contact if you have to, but wait until things are more solidified before making inquiries. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[NYCgymfitNEW]

7 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Well, in reality you can’t really dictate what someone “should” do. Being a sex worker isn’t always a profession where people get a chance to be interviewed and  “qualified” for by a recruiting agent. Guys have their reasons for needing to get into it, all the logistical street smarts don’t necessarily come right away. It take months and YEARS of experience. You can’t expect a sex worker to come into the game knowing everything and being perfectly business savvy. Maybe YOU need to not hire escorts, and deal with the sea of last minute possibilities, flakes and “inquiries” on hookup apps?

You sound like a sweet guy, and even your screenname sounds hot 😉 but…as I said before: you weren’t necessarily an Angel yourself. You knew you had a flaky boss, you reached out to a bunch of guys haphazardly, and someone got annoyed. That’s not his fault. Like I said: next time wait until you’re at the airport. Or better yet, when your boss has booked your ticket or whatever. Don’t try to get ahead by making tentative plans. Look around, take notes of who you want to contact if you have to, but wait until things are more solidified before making inquiries. 

I got it.  And as I said I took your criticism about not responding to his "?" to heart - reflected - and now have Venmo'd him the cancellation fee.  Going forward I will make a distinction between an inquiry and an appointment - which - made sense to me.  So - hopefully both the provider and myself - have gained some insights.  I have hired regularly for a long time - and never got this kind of reaction before.  The reaction seemed disproportionate to the moment. 

My comment as to whether he "should be in the industry" really stems from his reaction to his week - when he was so angry on the phone - that all his clients had flaked.  The - emotionality - was real.  The anger was real - and he is not a young kid.   He's been doing this for a minute.  And - you are in a high stress industry - but hopefully a rewarding one as well.  

You seem to have found a way to engage professionally -a set of rules and boundaries that allow you to keep your sanity.   Hope he finds the same.  Thanks to everyone for the advice.  Lessons learned all around... And as I said - most of my experiences with providers have been positive.  

Edited November 21, 2022 by NYCgymfitNEW

[NYCgymfitNEW]

Thanks to everyone who responded.  Learned some things... gained some insights... which is always a good thing! 

Moving on - hope everyone has a great week!  Be kind to each other.

[handiacefailure]

20 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

That’s because you aren’t looking to get paid. You’re looking for the service. You may not gain the *ex from that particular provider, but the escort regardless of who cancels, loses *ex and money. so people need to stop using that analogy. 

 

But in this case the OP didn't book a specific time.

If an escort expect a client to keep a commitment to a booked time (which they should) then escorts should extend the same courtesy to clients.   My time is valuable as well.   In my field of work, if a client books an appointment with me, I make sure to make it happen and I'm available then.

[pubic_assistance]

On 11/20/2022 at 11:54 AM, NYCgymfitNEW said:

From his perspective - he had traveled to this city because people told him they wanted to hire him - but almost everyone canceled that week.

I think you're just a victim of cumulative anger. You may have been the straw that broke his camel's back of frustration. 

[Deadlift1]

Talk about killing a dead horse..... 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

7 hours ago, handiacefailure said:

But in this case the OP didn't book a specific time.

If an escort expect a client to keep a commitment to a booked time (which they should) then escorts should extend the same courtesy to clients.   My time is valuable as well.   In my field of work, if a client books an appointment with me, I make sure to make it happen and I'm available then.

 

Never said he did. What I AM saying was: IF the CLIENT is/was not sure of his plans of traveling then, he should not have been reaching out to providers to book an appointment. 
 

If you’re not booking an appointment, then why are you contacting? This is not like other businesses where you get to “call around” for the best deal. You’re dealing with something very intimate and specific. Once you make that text or call, you have booked the session by default. It’s like booking an Uber: you don’t go on the app and ping drivers for availability until you’ve paid the fee and are ready to go somewhere. Not “if” whatever billion other things you have going on, work out. 

There’s a verse out there:

 

So don’t say yes I want to book, but then no I’m not booking an appointment. And this is not necessarily harping on the OP, but in general because I used to hear clients say ”but I didn’t book an appointment” all the time: 

1 hour ago, arnemgreeves said:

If you've both agreed to meet at a given time and place, it's done.

So literally this can be - "cool. i'll see at x hotel at 9pm"

It shouldn't really that hard to figure out.

If a provider cannot do this properly, then he won't make much money. It's no different than agreeing to meet a friend at a given place and at a specific time. 

Some things in this line of activity can be down to the provider or the client, or a mixture of both parties' "fault". In this case, since the provider want smoney as it's his job, he should ensure that the arrangement meeting details are fixed. 

Here’s the thing: most times it never gets that far. A provider can spend a whole minimum wage pay day worth of back and forth texting and not have any appointment time set up yet. 
 

That’s why I stopped doing all the small talk unless I know the client is ready to book a session.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[italianboyph]

It's not confirmed until you both agree on a time, date, and location. I get the frustration he's talking about, I'm sure we've all been there with the constant back and forth, games with some clients. Until you both agree on when to meet, then it's not officially confirmed.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

13 hours ago, italianboyph said:

It's not confirmed until you both agree on a time, date, and location. I get the frustration he's talking about, I'm sure we've all been there with the constant back and forth, games with some clients. Until you both agree on when to meet, then it's not officially confirmed.

Well I know one thing: I’ve decided that because of this, I’m going back to limiting how much free “material” I’m putting out there. If someone hasn’t booked an appointment, then they really shouldn’t be seeing all of what I offer anyway. 

I don’t want for things to revert to what men4rent once did (disallowed any nude pics in ads), however: I’m seeing less merit in “barring it all” on my ads. RentMasseur already has it set up that way, and I seem to get more clients from it sometimes than RentMen. 
 

I even wrote an email to them sharing my opinion. I’ve said long time ago we should get some form of “credit” whenever clients look at our private pics. Their paying for a membership doesn’t necessarily put money in our pockets. And having nude pics out waiting around for people to book appointments, is too much of a stipulation. 
 

Sometimes, I feel we are moreso advertising to each other versus actual clients. Escorts are getting frustrated at potential clients because they are seeing the goods, without actually having to book an appointment, and that’s just not fair. That’s why I’m getting out of the rat race.  People are booking appointments, and then cancelling on us for shit reasons that don’t have anything to do with us. Meanwhile, we get paid $0 for the content that we put out. 
 

That’s why I just don’t have time for the bullshit. The idea of getting less clients with deposits does get uncomfortable especially during slow times. But trying to win over dudes who aren’t committed to booking, is time consuming.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut