Too Many 'Money Up Front' Horror Stories Lately.......A Remedy??

[+ 5280Dane]

I agree - you want paid upfront you get no tip.

[TylerGrovesNYC]

I'm an established provider & I require a deposit of 25% for all FUTURE appointments (i.e. an appointment taking place on a day that is not today, inwhich I will have to block out time in My schedule for you & prepare toys, leather, etc). If the client doesn't like that, I tell them that they're welcome to hit Me up on that actual day but if I am already booked by someone else, or in session at the time of the call, it's first come first serve. 

I work mainly as much more of a Pro Dom how than an escort & for fetish/bdsm this is much more standard in that niche of things. Guys wanting a session in a dungeon, or with lots of toys are usually going to plan in advance, and they don't mind doing this. Other guys who are looking for more escort related things but are willing to plan in advance don't mind this either.

I tell all clients however who are hesitant they should always screen a provider before ever giving a deposit. 

-do they have adds on multiple platforms (not just RentMen) I am on Eros & Tryst as well

-do they have social media? Twitter 

-do they have a video presence, on multiple platforms (I personally have 3: OnlyFans, ManyVids, ModelHub)

-do they have a website?

-do they have reviews? If so how many? I've got 35, all 5 star mostly 

If the provider checks off all or most of these boxes the greater the chance is of them being legit & not walking away with your deposit money 

 

When it comes to money upfront before the session starts, I personally don't do this, I wait until the end. For all same day appts I don't require a deposit- the client has the desire fresh on their mind & the likelihood that they will follow through is high. I find that for all future appts that a deposit is not collected (unless I know the person), if a deposit is not received, they aren't showing up & I wasted my time blocking out a slot for them in My schedule, or restricted my personal life when I didn't have to.

 

Sure, I lose a little business this way, & it was much harder to get deposits in the beginning before I became well known, but the pay off of enforcing that system is invaluable to Me.

[+ glutes]

Whip it good Tyler!

[rn901]

Rip offs can happen on both ends of the transaction so I understand both sides to this. Personally, I will ask for a small deposit if I'm to travel outside my city. I had a client book me to fly out to another city across the country only to not show up at the air port. He completely ghosted me after I made the flight. Fortunately, I had another regular in that city and met up with him. If I didn't have that regular, I would have been stranded and come out of that trip with a loss instead of a profit. I've had other others cancel or not show up after I made a considerable commute to see them. If I'm going to commute hours then I want to make sure it is worth my time. A small deposit lessens the possibility of getting ripped off and me wasting both time and resources. No shows and time wasters are frequent in this business. So I can understand both why some providers require some payment upfront and why some clients refuse to do them. For appointments in my city or the city I'm located in, I'll take the risk and not require any payment upfront. For appointments that require a commute though, a small deposit seems to be a reasonable ask. If providers didn't get ripped off, less would probably ask for a deposit. If clients didn't get ripped off, less would be hesitant to make an upfront payment. Unfortunately the present conditions aren't there yet and there exists a conflict of interests. Mature clients and mature providers should be able to see why and understand the two sides to this. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by rn901

[rn901]

On 10/17/2021 at 11:03 AM, robberbaron4u said:

The first commandment of making a hire is "THOU SHALT NOT RECEIVETH  UNTIL THOU HAST GIVEN". Again, "Escorting" is a business; the "hire" is a contractual agreement. You can coat it with chocolate, spinkle it with sugar and drizzle honey over it, but, in the end, that is the reality of the thing. And, by custom, a provuder isnot paid until he has delivered on the services for which they contracted to provide. 

Except plenty of hotels, modes of transportation, deliveries, concert/sporting event venues, contractors and freelancers do require some amount of an upfront payment prior to their service. So no, it is not always custom in every business to only pay after. Even then those above-the-ground businesses do have a means of recourse if they are not paid what they are due. As others have stated on this very forum, escorts do not. That should make it even more understandable why some require some payment upfront. 

Edited October 22, 2021 by rn901

[robberbaron4u]

9 hours ago, rn901 said:

Except plenty of hotels, modes of transportation, deliveries, concert/sporting event venues, contractors and freelancers do require some amount of an upfront payment prior to their service. So no, it is not always custom in every business to only pay after. Even then those above-the-ground businesses do have a means of recourse if they are not paid what they are due. As others have stated on this very forum, escorts do not. That should make it even more understandable why some require some payment upfront. 

Wire me $500 immediately. I may not be able to take the curl out of your hair and put it in your toes, but, rubbing my old bald head should be a sensual experience for you worth the money. DO NOT HESITATE! I BOOK OUT QUICKLY. Western Union is OK! 

[+ Pensant]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:10 AM, MikeBiDude said:

So is my self confidence. Hasn’t happened in years but I’ve never been afraid to ask someone to leave. I deal with it in the pre-meet discussions if it comes up. 

That has never happened to me although I once had a provider who was reluctant to leave. 

[rn901]

3 hours ago, robberbaron4u said:

Wire me $500 immediately. I may not be able to take the curl out of your hair and put it in your toes, but, rubbing my old bald head should be a sensual experience for you worth the money. DO NOT HESITATE! I BOOK OUT QUICKLY. Western Union is OK! 

Nice strawman. There are plenty who ask for upfront payments not in this fashion and who are honest with their work. You wanted to make the point that it is custom to paying only after a service. That is patently false. Again, make sure to tell airlines, hotels, concert venues, sport stadiums, photographers, housing contractors, delivery services, web developers and most freelancers in a variety of industries they're not following your fictional customs properly. Sorry United, I'm only paying after my flight. Sorry Marriott, I'm not paying any deposit. Sorry Amazon, I'm only paying after my delivery. If it's understandable why such businesses require upfront payment, then it should be even more understandable why escorts who have no means of recourse do so as well. People get ripped off on both ends of this industry. If you're able to think of others besides yourself, you would understand why some require upfront payment and you would be able to have an adult conversation about it seeing where both sides are coming from.

Edited October 22, 2021 by rn901

[coriolis888]

1 hour ago, rn901 said:

Nice strawman. There are plenty who ask for upfront payments not in this fashion and who are honest with their work. You wanted to make the point that it is custom to paying only after a service. That is patently false. Again, make sure to tell airlines, hotels, concert venues, sport stadiums, photographers, housing contractors, delivery services, web developers and most freelancers in a variety of industries they're not following your fictional customs properly. Sorry United, I'm only paying after my flight. Sorry Marriott, I'm not paying any deposit. Sorry Amazon, I'm only paying after my delivery. If it's understandable why such businesses require upfront payment, then it should be even more understandable why escorts who have no means of recourse do so as well. People get ripped off on both ends of this industry. If you're able to think of others besides yourself, you would understand why some require upfront payment and you would be able to have an adult conversation about it seeing where both sides are coming from.

Your comparisons are not realistic.  

United and Marriott and other companies do not flake on customers as do many providers.  

 

[rn901]

36 minutes ago, coriolis888 said:

Your comparisons are not realistic.  

United and Marriott and other companies do not flake on customers as do many providers.  

 

Many providers don't flake as other providers. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for them to ask for a payment upfront. Marriot and United and Amazon and photographers and web developers and concert venues and freelancers in countless of other industries do have a means of recourse if they are not paid what they are due, yet they still ask for deposits/payments upfront. Escorts do not have such recourse, yet somehow it is more unreasonable for them to ask for payments upfront? It shouldn't be complicated to understand where such policy of theirs comes from. Reasonable mature people should be able to see why such a point of view exists. If providers didn't get ripped off, they wouldn't ask for payments upfront. If clients didn't get ripped off, they wouldn't mind payments upfront. Unfortunately people on both ends get ripped off, therefore people on both ends should understand where each conflicting view is coming from. Why is this difficult? 

Edited October 22, 2021 by rn901

[coriolis888]

56 minutes ago, rn901 said:

Many providers don't flake as other providers. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for them to ask for a payment upfront. Marriot and United and Amazon and photographers and web developers and concert venues and freelancers in countless of other industries do have a means of recourse if they are not paid what they are due, yet they still ask for deposits/payments upfront. Escorts do not have such recourse, yet somehow it is more unreasonable for them to ask for payments upfront? It shouldn't be complicated to understand where such policy of theirs comes from. Reasonable mature people should be able to see why such a point of view exists. If providers didn't get ripped off, they wouldn't ask for payments upfront. If clients didn't get ripped off, they wouldn't mind payments upfront. Unfortunately people on both ends get ripped off, therefore people on both ends should understand where each conflicting view is coming from. Why is this difficult? 

Your post does not make for a good advertisement for the services of a provider.  

Rather, I suspect that many clients are turned off by the attitude expressed in the posts. 

[KeepItReal]

2 hours ago, rn901 said:

Many providers don't flake as other providers. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for them to ask for a payment upfront. Marriot and United and Amazon and photographers and web developers and concert venues and freelancers in countless of other industries do have a means of recourse if they are not paid what they are due, yet they still ask for deposits/payments upfront. Escorts do not have such recourse, yet somehow it is more unreasonable for them to ask for payments upfront? It shouldn't be complicated to understand where such policy of theirs comes from. Reasonable mature people should be able to see why such a point of view exists. If providers didn't get ripped off, they wouldn't ask for payments upfront. If clients didn't get ripped off, they wouldn't mind payments upfront. Unfortunately people on both ends get ripped off, therefore people on both ends should understand where each conflicting view is coming from. Why is this difficult? 

You are, of course, free to run your business any way you want. No doubt. I am equally free not to participate.

My reason is simple... In my experience, companions that ask for a deposit are either trying to scam me or so focused on the money that they end up providing sub par companionship.  That is my experience so that is what I go by. 

[+ RJD]

3 hours ago, rn901 said:

Many providers don't flake as other providers. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for them to ask for a payment upfront. Marriot and United and Amazon and photographers and web developers and concert venues and freelancers in countless of other industries do have a means of recourse if they are not paid what they are due, yet they still ask for deposits/payments upfront. Escorts do not have such recourse, yet somehow it is more unreasonable for them to ask for payments upfront? It shouldn't be complicated to understand where such policy of theirs comes from. Reasonable mature people should be able to see why such a point of view exists. If providers didn't get ripped off, they wouldn't ask for payments upfront. If clients didn't get ripped off, they wouldn't mind payments upfront. Unfortunately people on both ends get ripped off, therefore people on both ends should understand where each conflicting view is coming from. Why is this difficult? 

The difference between your examples and a provider is that when I pay for my flight, hotel, concert tickets, or any of the other services you listed, I get a confirmation number, reservation number, or invoice evidencing my payment.  The airline, hotel, or concert venue are not going to disappear.  I have proof that I paid for a service or product, and I have recourse.   

You're expecting someone to fork over cash to an unknown entity whose only means of contact is an internet classified ad and a burner cell number and hope for the best.  And then you wonder why clients balk at the idea and find this difficult. 

 

 

[Lazarus]

4 hours ago, coriolis888 said:

Your post does not make for a good advertisement for the services of a provider.  

Rather, I suspect that many clients are turned off by the attitude expressed in the posts. 

This poster sounds just like another poster from SF that claimed to be a “hole trainer” or something like that. 🤔🤔🤔🙄🙄🙄

[+ RJD]

2 hours ago, Lazarus said:

This poster sounds just like another poster from SF that claimed to be a “hole trainer” or something like that. 🤔🤔🤔🙄🙄🙄

[Alex93108]

11 hours ago, rn901 said:

Many providers don't flake as other providers. Therefore, it is perfectly reasonable for them to ask for a payment upfront. Marriot and United and Amazon and photographers and web developers and concert venues and freelancers in countless of other industries do have a means of recourse if they are not paid what they are due, yet they still ask for deposits/payments upfront. Escorts do not have such recourse, yet somehow it is more unreasonable for them to ask for payments upfront? It shouldn't be complicated to understand where such policy of theirs comes from. Reasonable mature people should be able to see why such a point of view exists. If providers didn't get ripped off, they wouldn't ask for payments upfront. If clients didn't get ripped off, they wouldn't mind payments upfront. Unfortunately people on both ends get ripped off, therefore people on both ends should understand where each conflicting view is coming from. Why is this difficult? 

let’s cut him some slack here . I think we can agree that some form of deposit make sense when there is a justification. Travel, visits out of town and things along similar lines.  Personally if there was travel arrangements made , I would make that on behalf of the person i’m hiring , so the deposit would be small anyway , to cover incidentals , trip to the airport etc and maybe a small portion of agreed total 

Otherwise,  I tend to adopt the restaurant principle , you pay at the end of the meal , which is 99% of the restaurants in the world unless it’s a meal at the French Laundry , Le bernadin etc 

Similarly i never prepay for hotels ever - it’s always a credit card guarantee cancel 1 night prior . 

Providers are free to do what makes sense for them . expect some pushback and fewer takers if it deviates from what is the norm, given the type of meeting requested 

 

[+ RJD]

7 hours ago, jetlow said:

let’s cut him some slack here . I think we can agree that some form of deposit make sense when there is a justification. Travel, visits out of town and things along similar lines.  Personally if there was travel arrangements made , I would make that on behalf of the person i’m hiring , so the deposit would be small anyway , to cover incidentals , trip to the airport etc and maybe a small portion of agreed total 

Otherwise,  I tend to adopt the restaurant principle , you pay at the end of the meal , which is 99% of the restaurants in the world unless it’s a meal at the French Laundry , Le bernadin etc 

Similarly i never prepay for hotels ever - it’s always a credit card guarantee cancel 1 night prior . 

Providers are free to do what makes sense for them . expect some pushback and fewer takers if it deviates from what is the norm, given the type of meeting requested 

 

No one is suggesting not paying for travel expenses when the provider is traveling from out of town.  I hired someone last year who I flew across the country for a long weekend.  I purchased his airline ticket, which he readily accepted as evidence of my commitment to the appointment.  I have a regular provider who takes the bus from New York for weekends with me.  I similarly pay for his transportation.  

What I'm not going to do is electronically send cash to an unknown provider and hope he shows up.  You're right, providers are free to do what makes sense for them.  If requiring a deposit works for them, more power to them.  I'm also free to decline their terms and not be thought of as a flake or time waster.  I also have the right to do what works for me.       

[xyz48B]

On 10/22/2021 at 1:15 AM, rn901 said:

Except plenty of hotels, modes of transportation, deliveries, concert/sporting event venues, contractors and freelancers do require some amount of an upfront payment prior to their service.

A while back, you told me I couldn’t compare escorting to those sorts of jobs because escorts are sharing their bodies. So what is it? Are they comparable or not? Someone who does deliveries isn’t much different than a baker, in my opinion.

[xyz48B]

[xyz48B]

10 hours ago, RJD said:

I hired someone last year who I flew across the country for a long weekend.  I purchased his airline ticket, which he readily accepted as evidence of my commitment to the appointment.

That’s what I do too. If they demand more than that, then I’m sorry but it’s not a good match. Most reasonable guys will a) offer to pay that travel expense anyhow and b) wait a little while for a client to offer. I normally will say up front to a provider traveling any distance that I’ll cover the cost. Some providers will say there’s no need as they’ll lengthen their stay in the area and just stay around. And if a provider talks about money in the first few texts and really nothing else, I’m not interested. I want to know if the service provided is even something I’m interested in before I consider cost. I sometimes will end up paying more foR something if it seems I’m getting something I didn’t anticipate or think of, but if I go in with a fixed price point, I probably won’t buy anything. Same goes for escorts. 

[xyz48B]

On 10/22/2021 at 9:39 PM, Lazarus said:

This poster sounds just like another poster from SF that claimed to be a “hole trainer” or something like that. 🤔🤔🤔🙄🙄🙄

🤫 We don’t say that out loud! We play along with the charade! 

[rn901]

I clearly said in my previous posts I don't require upfront payments myself (unless it requires travel). I simply suggested one should try to understand why other providers do so. Considering other reasonable points of view should be the norm on here. I said multiple times I understand why providers require it and I understand why clients refuse to do it.  Black and white thinking does none of you any good. Grow up and try to understand where other people are coming from.  

Edited October 24, 2021 by rn901

[rn901]

4 hours ago, xyz48B said:

A while back, you told me I couldn’t compare escorting to those sorts of jobs because escorts are sharing their bodies. So what is it? Are they comparable or not? Someone who does deliveries isn’t much different than a baker, in my opinion.

The differences between escorting and those industries only strengthen the rationalizations for upfront payments, not lessen them. It is a more intimate job, it does require more emotional labor, it does require one giving access to their body and it does come with more risks. How any of that lessens the case why some providers are asking payments upfront has yet to be made. If a hotel, housing contractor or freelancer has a case for asking for upfront payment, an escort has an even stronger one. I'll say that as one who doesn't practice such a policy themselves, but who can get where others are coming from. Try it sometime. 

Edited October 24, 2021 by rn901

[coriolis888]

4 minutes ago, rn901 said:

I clearly said in my previous posts I don't require upfront payments myself (unless it requires travel). I simply suggested one should try to understand why other providers do so. Apparently that is too difficult. I said multiple times I understand why providers require it and I understand why clients refuse to do it.  Black and white thinking does none of you any good. Grow up and try to understand where other people are coming from.  

Not a good marketing technique for a provider. 

Insulting clients will get you no where.  

[rn901]

36 minutes ago, coriolis888 said:

Not a good marketing technique for a provider. 

Insulting clients will get you no where.  

Who said I'm marketing on here? Lose the entitlement. I'm allowed to have a different point of view.

Edited October 24, 2021 by rn901