Bad Clients

[+ keroscenefire]

Interestingly, this topic came up with a recent guy I hired from South America. He is traveling around the country escorting because the company that hired him and sponsored his visa actually went out of business right as COVID happened. I took him out to dinner and he said that I was only client so far that has offered to do that with him. Now that could be COVID related too, but he said that a lot of the clients he's had have been bad. One he caught trying to spike his drink with something (probably G). Another one pressured him to do PNP even though he had never done it before. Several have complained about his height (he is only 5'8") even though he accurately described that on his profile. Another complained about his accent and stiffed him some of the donation, saying, "You're lucky I don't call immigration on you."

 

I felt bad for the kid. He's only in his mid-20s and came to America for a job only to go to escorting. He did say that the majority of the clients have been fine...just a regular session and then they were gone. But a definite sizable minority have according to this guy, treated him just terribly. He said he is probably going to only do this for a few more months.

 

While this is just one escort (and a relative newbie as well), other escorts have told me similar stories, especially about the drugs. One regular of mine said he stopped doing overnight sessions because they were almost always all-night PNP sessions and he really doesn't like doing drugs. But even when he has told them he's not into that, he said many guys will threaten to cancel unless he partakes and then he loses the $1500 or whatever.

 

I won't say I've always been a perfect client, but definitely we could all do a lot better at treating the guys we hire in a respectful way and not pressuring them to do things they don't want to.

[Rod Hagen]

One regular of mine said he stopped doing overnight sessions because they were almost always all-night PNP sessions and he really doesn't like doing drugs. But even when he has told them he's not into that, he said many guys will threaten to cancel unless he partakes and then he loses the $1500 or whatever.

 

Sounds as if your Escort from SA is having a very hard time.

 

I never found that overnights were more likely to involve drugs. I did find, in my younger days of escorting, that the 2, 3, and 4am clients were the most likely, but not necessarily most likely (if that makes sense?) to be using. It never bothered me, I just said no thank you. I suppose if one of them had been so out of his mind that I felt I, or he, was in danger or was using drastically bad judgment, I would have walked out. But nothing got nearly that bad, or bad at all. After all, if someone were using drugs and calling an escort in the last hours of the night, I'd rather they see me, someone who is safe, trustworthy, and compassionate,, than someone else; or that was my thinking back then.

 

I'm starting to think I've had a lot of good luck. Or I'm flexible. Or I have healthy skepticism. Who can say.

 

@keroscenefire, Back to your South American friend. The clients who have been nice to him, like you, has he especially enjoyed being with them, is this something he would like to continue to do if he could reduce the number of "bad" clients? If so, perhaps some of those escorts here who are more familiar with online screening methods, I'm clueless, could help. Best of luck to him.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Rod Hagen

[+ keroscenefire]

 

@keroscenefire, Back to your South American friend. The clients who have been nice to him, like you, has he especially enjoyed being with them, is this something he would like to continue to do if he could reduce the number of "bad" clients? If so, perhaps some of those escorts here who are more familiar with online screening methods, I'm clueless, could help. Best of luck to him.

 

Yeah, he has only been doing this since April so I think he probably is not as good as screening and stuff as he could be. He actually was fairly skeptical at my text, asking if I was police. So maybe his learning. And he did say to me as I left that he is glad that there were clients like me willing to listen and be friendly. He has been away from his family for more than a year and has no idea when he'll be able to go back home. So I think it was nice for him just to have someone to talk to and listen to what's been going on with him. I told him to hold onto my number and I'd be glad to meet him again if he ever made it back in town. Hopefully Denver and his next few cities will treat him well and he'll have more positive experiences.

[Aaron_Bauder]

At the risk of speaking for others, I’m going to say that it seems that the prevalence of “bad clients” is small. We’ve spent a lot of time in this thread talking about what makes for a bad client, but @peterhung85 really was the only escort to say how prevalent they are – and he reports they are rather infrequent over the course of his escorting career.

 

Unless other escorts want to dispute the claim, it seems plain.

 

 

Again, we who weigh in here should remember we are a self-selecting sample, and not a statistically sound one.

 

After 7 years in the biz, I've come to learn that the folks who participate here do not represent the average escort or client -- and certainly not majority opinion among escorts or clients. Much of the consensus opinion around here is either unknown to or would be laughed at by most clients and providers I've encountered, across states, borders, and cultures.

 

I don't personally know a single colleague who regularly participates here, although I know a few who once did, found it insufferable, and left. Others of us participate cautiously and sparingly. And I can count on one hand the number of clients I've had from here, out of multiple hundreds.

 

So let's keep our egos in check and not make assumptions about silence or non-participation. The "risk of speaking for others" in this case is a risk best left alone.

[Aaron_Bauder]

I'm going to assume we're being cutesy here and do not actually believe all services are equal, and that none of us would seriously regard someone who is providing us with sexual intimacy the same as we would treat a plumber.

 

If there is such a thing as a bad client, it would be those who do not consider the delicate implications and complexities of eroticism and who treat those who work in eroticism as disposable. A hospice nurse is not the same as an IT guy. Getting up close and personal with human sexuality (often under the umbrella of illegality and stigma) is not the same as fixing a leaky pipe, puns aside.

 

The flip commodification that happens sometimes in these forums has driven providers I know away from this website. Reducing it all to a mere transaction is icky, whether done by providers or by clients. Off this website where sex workers encounter that attitude, it has made some suspicious and even hostile. Instead, we all need to be thoughtful, because this transaction requires care and thought.

 

There's a reason serial killers often target sex workers. That's an extreme version of a bad client, but it all starts with disregard and disrespect. So let's not even hint in that direction, please. When you hire someone for intimacy, you should not treat him like just any plumber (cue the puns).

Edited August 9, 2020 by Aaron_Bauder

[xyz48B]

When you hire someone for intimacy, you should not treat him like just any plumber

“Just any plumber” is a problematic way of putting that. I’m going to assume you don’t think plumbers aren’t vitally important service providers. After all, we all like our indoor plumbing…

 

No contest that reducing it to a mere transaction is a problem, but it is true that many an escort does just that as well – treating clients as manipulable ATMs. How many escorts can “immediately” identify a “time waster?” That’s what this all got started about. How many clients classify as bad clients? Because it does seem that in the conversation here, there is an inordinate amount of talk about how poorly clients behave. There are particular escorts who write here extensively with disdain for clients, as if the escort is somehow providing some sort of grace and mercy for accepting the client’s money.

 

While it’s about intimacy, it is a transaction. Some escorts make that much abundantly clear. It would be nice if everyone, as you say, were “thoughtful because this transaction requires care and thought.”

[Aaron_Bauder]

I’m going to assume you don’t think plumbers aren’t vitally important service providers.

 

No, what I think is that people should not make assumptions, as I wrote earlier.

 

Plumbers are important. So are escorts. So are IT guys. So are nurses. And a plumber is still not an escort is not an IT guy is not a nurse.

 

Just because they're all important doesn't make them the same, and they should not be treated the same. That has nothing to do with whether or not they're important.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Aaron_Bauder

[Aaron_Bauder]

No contest that reducing it to a mere transaction is a problem, but it is true that many an escort does just that as well – treating clients as manipulable ATMs. How many escorts can “immediately” identify a “time waster?” That’s what this all got started about...Because it does seem that in the conversation here, there is an inordinate amount of talk about how poorly clients behave.

 

Why I wrote "Reducing it all to a mere transaction is icky, whether done by providers or by clients."

 

I don't think this website is any more inordinately critical of clients than it is of providers. This website and its affiliate are primarily dedicated to judging and critiquing providers after all. Much of that judgment is critical, and much of that criticism based on assumptions, prying/spying, one-offs, generalization, extrapolation, and commodification.

 

Most clients posting here get to stay anonymous. Providers here regularly get named, exposed, and picked apart whether they wish to participate here or not.

 

That comes with the territory. So to me, providers or clients who can't handle criticism, or who only see criticism, should probably avoid this website.

 

This section, however, is called "Ask An Escort" not "Get An Escort To Tell You Only That You Wish To Hear." We could all just be phony robots here, but I doubt that would be illuminating or much fun.

[+ DrownedBoy]

This section, however, is called "Ask An Escort" not "Get An Escort To Tell You Only That You Wish To Hear." We could all just be phony robots here, but I doubt that would be illuminating or much fun.

 

I fully agree.

 

I believe clients should treat providers with respect. However, the fact is that we're looking and evaluating potential providers, just like we'd evaluate objects we'd buy from a store. That's fact; it's how capitalism works, and it's how the escort business works.

 

Both clients and providers need a place where they can talk about things honestly. That's what the forum is for.

 

We can act nice in person, but sometimes we need to talk bluntly and honestly. And it's good for both escorts and providers to keep reality in mind. It's not healthy for escorts or providers to actually believe the other has deep feelings for them.

[cany10011]

Interestingly, this topic came up with a recent guy I hired from South America. He is traveling around the country escorting because the company that hired him and sponsored his visa actually went out of business right as COVID happened. I took him out to dinner and he said that I was only client so far that has offered to do that with him. Now that could be COVID related too, but he said that a lot of the clients he's had have been bad. One he caught trying to spike his drink with something (probably G). Another one pressured him to do PNP even though he had never done it before. Several have complained about his height (he is only 5'8") even though he accurately described that on his profile. Another complained about his accent and stiffed him some of the donation, saying, "You're lucky I don't call immigration on you."

 

I felt bad for the kid. He's only in his mid-20s and came to America for a job only to go to escorting. He did say that the majority of the clients have been fine...just a regular session and then they were gone. But a definite sizable minority have according to this guy, treated him just terribly. He said he is probably going to only do this for a few more months.

 

While this is just one escort (and a relative newbie as well), other escorts have told me similar stories, especially about the drugs. One regular of mine said he stopped doing overnight sessions because they were almost always all-night PNP sessions and he really doesn't like doing drugs. But even when he has told them he's not into that, he said many guys will threaten to cancel unless he partakes and then he loses the $1500 or whatever.

 

I won't say I've always been a perfect client, but definitely we could all do a lot better at treating the guys we hire in a respectful way and not pressuring them to do things they don't want to.

 

A Brazilian escort in NYC told me that he never accepts drinks as he was drugged once by a bad client.

[xyz48B]

@Aaron_Bauder – Thanks for your opinion.

[xyz48B]

A Brazilian escort in NYC told me that he never accepts drinks as he was drugged once by a bad client.

Ridiculous. Appalling. I wish I were surprised to hear that, though. Men can be such pigs....

[+ keroscenefire]

A Brazilian escort in NYC told me that he never accepts drinks as he was drugged once by a bad client.

 

Yeah I think the immigrant escorts are pretty vulnerable to abuse. The escort I was talking about is here on a legal visa, but certainly if it came down to his word against a US citizen in some kind of legal matter, I have a feeling I know what would happen on most cases.

[ArmyHands]

I am soo getting tired of clients show up for massage appt that they did not know I was BLACK and get upset and leave calling me the N-Word... then send me TEXTS saying I wasted there time by driving to me....

 

I clearly have all my pics posted i.e. Website / Twitter / Google etc... what else can I do ???

[+ DrownedBoy]

A Brazilian escort in NYC told me that he never accepts drinks as he was drugged once by a bad client.

 

Provider etiquette - always have some bottled water ready for escorts. It's hard to drug a sealed bottle.

[+ keroscenefire]

I clearly have all my pics posted i.e. Website / Twitter / Google etc... what else can I do ???

 

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't think you could've done anything else. Some clients are really just assholes and put their hang-ups on the guys they hire. Not sure where you're located, but if I ever spot you where I am, I will likely look you up. Could always use a great massage from a handsome man.

[xyz48B]

I am soo getting tired of clients show up for massage appt that they did not know I was BLACK and get upset and leave calling me the N-Word... then send me TEXTS saying I wasted there time by driving to me....

 

I clearly have all my pics posted i.e. Website / Twitter / Google etc... what else can I do ???

1. I’m appalled that you say clients, that this has happened more than once...Mind-boggling.

2. You really can’t be faulted. You have pictures up. What more can be expected? If you had turned out to be a white guy after having pictures of yourself as a black man in your advertisement, I wouldn’t stay. I’d feel deceived and wonder what other hanky panky could happen during the session. But that’s not what happened. Sounds like the clients who do this are dense...

[Guest]

I share the experience of a few other escorts who have responded in that the number of clients I've seen who've really bothered or offended me is tiny.

 

That's one way of answering the question.

 

Another way, a little sassier, but in a sense more objective, is to define a client as somebody who hires you, and thus a bad one as somebody who fails to do so. The sort of person to whom you might say "if what you're trying to do is hire me, you're doing a bad job". Also known as time-wasters, this sort of "bad client" is legion.

[Rod Hagen]

Also known as time-wasters, this sort of "bad client" is legion.

 

So weird. I hear that this is a big problem, but Knock Wood, it hasn't been for me.

[coriolis888]

 

So weird. I hear that this is a big problem, but Knock Wood, it hasn't been for me.

 

 

It has not happened to you because you do not consider normal texting of questions as "time-wasting" as many escorts do.

 

Many escorts classify potential clients as time-wasters if the potential client asks a provider questions to determine whether there would be compatibility. If there is no compatibility and the client does not hire the provider, the client was a time-waster.

 

Most likely, there are time wasters but that term is overused by some providers if they are asked questions but are not hired.

 

How else but through questions can a client determine if there is a probability of being compatible with a provider?

[Jarrod_Uncut]

How else but through questions can a client determine if there is a probability of being compatible with a provider?

 

 

 

It has not happened to you because you do not consider normal texting of questions as "time-wasting" as many escorts do.

 

Sounds like you indirectly addressed me, so...I will indirectly address you as well:

 

 

So weird. I hear that this is a big problem, but Knock Wood, it hasn't been for me.

 

And for the most part hasn’t been for me either. But it only takes:

 

1 time for a client to threaten to slice your neck

1 time for a client to not pay, and then say get the fuck out,

1 time for a client to pay via credit card and then dispute a week later

1 time to go to an outcall and be stood up

1 time to travel to a city, get a room and client not show up

1 time to spend time wasting on a 20 minute phone call answering “questions”, and then be flaked on.

 

Those are all true stories that I have contended with. So yeah, it doesn’t need to be a bunch of bad clients or experiences, it only takes 1. And that’s what this should be about. That said, despite that list... there’s far more good outweighing those. Which is why I stay. And overtime, those bad experiences help condition me to be more able to spot potential disasters, and avoid seeing somebody from the jump. And of course, I only see clients who pay deposits now, which has eliminated 99.9% of bull crap out of my day lol.

 

 

@Jarrod_Uncut – You seem antagonistic against Rentmen. Why?

 

Who said that? whom? That’s certainly not what I was alluding to. RentMen is manning the ship right now. I have no reason to antagonize them.

 

I just want them to do a little more for us, as far as screening goes. But I decided not to wait for them to do so yet, nor do I think I’d be 100% satisfied with their process. So I am doing everything a step ahead: I screen, require deposit, and have every client fill out a form. I’m like a walking, talking leasing office lol.

 

J/K, that’s not the point. I want it to be simple, fun, and sexy. But I’ve also made crucial and foolish mistakes that I don’t want to relive, so I have to do things with order and professionalism, and I’ve caught on from other businesses how to go about it.

 

You don’t just meet every Tom, Dick and Harry without knowing them from Adam. And you don’t have to provide free consultations, if your advertisement comes with penis photos and videos, including having sex, and sexual preferences outlined, along with face pic. Meanwhile, Mr. anonymous on the other end hasn’t shown a goddamn, MFing thing about his self.

 

THAT is the consultation. Me paying $150 for profiles and ad space, is a consultation. Any extra conversation beyond what time and address, needs to be paid for. That’s why I say, people need to send deposit very soon after texting me, as that’s services rendered.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

I am soo getting tired of clients show up for massage appt that they did not know I was BLACK and get upset and leave calling me the N-Word... then send me TEXTS saying I wasted there time by driving to me....

 

I clearly have all my pics posted i.e. Website / Twitter / Google etc... what else can I do ???

 

Who would so such a thing, and what city is this occurring?

 

I can’t see how they would be getting it mixed up. I can’t see your ad signature right now because I’m on mobile version, but if that’s the case, only thing I can think is if you include face pics (again I can’t see your ad yet) it could help.

 

I can’t tell you what I’d do if someone sent me such texts, as it would upset the “Puritanical” sex seekers of the forum.... but I’ll just say I tried very hard one time, not to email a scathing RM message a client who I’d not even met yet... sent to me, something along the lines of me being some con artist and a druggie. But far worse.

 

Fortunately, he apologized and admitted HE was being a prick.... due to other providers standing him up; before I sent it to the hospital he worked AND his partner. Instead, I just reported him to RM and they reprimanded him before I could. I woulda charred ? him.

[xyz48B]

THAT is the consultation. Me paying $150 for profiles and ad space, is a consultation. Any extra conversation beyond what time and address, needs to be paid for. That’s why I say, people need to send deposit very soon after texting me, as that’s services rendered.

Well, I can say I’m not paying a deposit with no assurance that it’ll be refunded if the subsequent exchange shows we’re incompatible. Like you, I’ve learned through bad experience with escorts taking my money and not providing, so I’m not excited to relive that. It only takes one bad escort to make me skeptical about trustworthiness.

[Rod Hagen]

Oh I just thought of what we can call a bad client. Years ago I had an hour appointment at my place. Then at the end he takes out a checkbook. Of course I said, "No". He said, but my wallet is at the hotel, The Mondrian where I'd called him earlier. I asked him to just leave an envelope at the front desk for me. I called him that night and he said he had. Two days later a friend and I had Duck Tacos (I miss those) at Asia de Cuba, I went to the front desk afterward. Of course there was no envelope. This was so predictable and cliche, I just blew it off. But it does suggest that if I do give it more thought, I can come up with some bad ones. p.s. Of course the only phone number i Had for the guy was his number when he'd been staying at the hote.

[+ Lucky]

The movie "Hooked," currently showing on Amazon Prime has a cute hustler who meets up with the ultimate bad client. It's worth watching.