Bad Clients

[Rod Hagen]

In 1999, I didn't pay $300/hour ... $200/hour max. And that is in NYC.

 

Sure, but in the other 49 states it was "about" $200/hour in 1999 and in 2020 in the other 49 states it is still "about" $200/hour. About.

 

Given how Manhattan, the undisputed fulcrum of the country if not the world, has become a giant East Coast Bel-Air, a $100/hour increase in 21 years is not at all bad.

 

Also, currently, in New York, I would be surprised if you couldn't find some East-borough Potholes to fill for $250/hour.

 

p.s. Not that it's important, but, for clarification, I referenced 4-hour appointment prices because earlier in the thread I had indicated that in 1999 and 2000 and 2001 AND 2002 four hours of work paid my monthly rent. And then, someone responded to that. Blah Blah. Anyway, that's why.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Rod Hagen

[Luv2play]

On the whole? 98% of clients are really great. They know what they're getting into and they know that the relationship originates as a business relationship and is transactional.

 

It's the clients that develop feelings, become physically violent, attempt (or succeed) at inebriating you through dubious means [the last time this happened was very recently with lube laced with some drug that made me feel nauseated and sleepy], demand more of your time that you're comfortable parting with, withdraw payment or fail to supply payment when/after/whenever services are rendered - and so much more.

 

You only need to fall prey to these tactics once to become suspicious of every future client. On some level, you're watching and trying to identify the pattern that led to the last terrible time and see if any of those warning klaxons start firing based on specific wording, vague wording, unwillingness to share information (address, room number, etc.), specific requests, implied requests, etc.

 

Hostility is a defense mechanism.

I haven’t heard the lube scenario before this. Quite disturbing. I always offer mine but accept the escort’s too if he prefers his.

[Luv2play]

You are comparing the cost of 4-hour appointments. A more reasonable comparison is the cost of an hourly appointment which, I think, is more common, In 1999, I didn't pay $300/hour ... $200/hour max. And that is in NYC.

I think I was paying about. $150 then for some top notch escorts in NYC And Miami. But memories dim.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Sure, but in the other 49 states it was "about" $200/hour in 1999 and in 2020 in the other 49 states it is still "about" $200/hour. About.

 

 

That reminds me...

 

[coriolis888]

Sure, but in the other 49 states, it was "about" $200/hour in 1999, and in 2020 in the other 49 states it is still "about" $200/hour. About.

 

Given how Manhattan, the undisputed fulcrum of the country if not the world, has become a giant East Coast Bel-Air, a $100/hour increase in 21 years is not at all bad.

 

Also, currently, in New York, I would be surprised if you couldn't find some East-borough Potholes to fill for $250/hour.

 

p.s. Not that it's important, but, for clarification, I referenced 4-hour appointment prices because earlier in the thread I had indicated that in 1999 and 2000 and 2001 AND 2002 four hours of work paid my monthly rent. And then, someone responded to that. Blah Blah. Anyway, that's why.

 

 

Back in 1999 and 2000 (and later), rentmen was not the main source for finding escorts.

 

Rentboy was the advertisement king during that era.

 

Several other advertising sites had a lot of non-professional or full-time quality escorts for far lower prices than quoted above and in previous posts.

 

Craigslist was one advertising source that had countless escorts for a reasonable fee.

[jeezifonly]

Perhaps the framing of this original question looking for negative info opened a bigger can of woes than can be helpful

If I might seek input from providers, as I am Asking an Escort: What are the behaviors that I, as a client, can exhibit before/during session that would make me more desirable as a return client?

(Let’s assume that respectful contact, punctuality, and good hygiene will be on every provider’s list, as well as being a generous tipper after...?) Thx

[xyz48B]

Perhaps the framing of this original question looking for negative info opened a bigger can of woes than can be helpful

If I might seek input from providers, as I am Asking an Escort: What are the behaviors that I, as a client, can exhibit before/during session that would make me more desirable as a return client?

(Let’s assume that respectful contact, punctuality, and good hygiene will be on every provider’s list, as well as being a generous tipper after...?) Thx

Sometimes it’s good to have a list of non-starters instead of nebulous things like “good hygiene” on a list of positives. I wasn’t interested in what makes for a return client. I wanted to know what proportion of clients are bad clients – not what makes a bad client. I asked the question I wanted to get the answer to.

 

For what it’s worth, every time I’ve hired an escort for the first time, he’s been extremely late. Punctuality goes both ways.

[jeezifonly]

Sometimes it’s good to have a list of non-starters instead of nebulous things like “good hygiene” on a list of positives. I wasn’t interested in what makes for a return client. I wanted to know what proportion of clients are bad clients – not what makes a bad client. I asked the question I wanted to get the answer to.

 

For what it’s worth, every time I’ve hired an escort for the first time, he’s been extremely late. Punctuality goes both ways.

Sorry xyz, you’re right.

I think the nature of the responses here led me astray as to your ask. Aside from Rod Hagen who gave an answer about proportion, majority of the replies (from clients...) seemed to address quality not quantity. And I should ask Mr Hagen directly about the QUALITY of his fingers... ?

[xyz48B]

Sorry xyz, you’re right.

I think the nature of the responses here led me astray as to your ask. Aside from Rod Hagen who gave an answer about proportion, majority of the replies (from clients...) seemed to address quality not quantity. And I should ask Mr Hagen directly about the QUALITY of his fingers... ?

I tend to be a meandering conversation partner. I like tangents so I’m fine with a discussion growing organically.

[Jarrod_Uncut]

For what it’s worth, every time I’ve hired an escort for the first time, he’s been extremely late. Punctuality goes both ways.

 

How much notice were they given and what quantifies as extremely late? And it sounds like these were outcalls to you?

 

In any case, I admittedly find it hard sometimes to get to every appointment without being a little behind. I don't think people understand: when the Comcast or UPS/FEDEX man comes out, do they give an EXACT time of arrival? Sometimes you'll get "by 8 pm", but they're also running an intricately timed network.

 

I don't think people understand, calling an escort and setting a time shouldn't be seen as a written in stone thing. How many people on grindr set up a specific time to meet? Or does someone have to wait a bit. I ask clients not to plan me too close to other things they're doing if they're asking for an outcall or just in general.

 

There's the Driving/Ubering/Scootering to unfamiliar addresses, sometimes unfamiliar cities. Then there's planning meals to where an escort may need a couple hours before or after eating before attending a session. Sometimes people contact me right in the middle of dinner, or just before...thinking an hour notice is sufficient. It's not. I need time to digest, drink my wine, freshen up, run a quick porn to get in the mood, figure address route, etc. By that time, 2 hours can zoom by before we know it. its much easier to be on time, when the client comes to us...but even that's not always guaranteed, as I've had to ask guys to chill in the lobby for a minute or 2 because I wasn't ready. They usually don't mind.

 

Of course I always try to ask to ensure that it's not an issue to arrive "between" a set time, not "at" a set time. At the end of the day, we're meeting strangers, and strangers can cause butterflies, and butterflies tend to cause people's digestives to act out of character lol.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

Did you, a provider, actually write on a public forum frequented by clients that you were going to contact the employer and partner of a man (potential client) who you never met, didn't cheat you out of money and you "woulda charred" because he called you names?

 

If this isn’t a red flag for every client out there, I don't know what is.

 

 

And I would not have regretted it 1 ☝? bit.

 

So Stop. Drop. And roll back. First of all: the person, ArmyHands, was the person who I quoted, who mentioned someone calling him mere “names”. And N word in person, is certainly not just a name. Look at how many people have lost whole contracts because of that. But I’m not going to go into that further, as this is not solely about name calling.

 

I followed up with an example I made, HOPING that people could see the actual intent, for the fact that I wasn’t so much “going to”, but more like, “why is a guy who’s partnered to another gay man, and is a doctor at a University medical center, sending me this vile offensive message? I wonder if his partner and fellow doctors would approve of this type of behavior.” And for what, because I told him I needed 2 hours notice before booking a session?

 

I can’t find the message or pull it up exactly, but it wasn’t just “names” he called me. It was something like accusing me of being an STD infested druggie, and may have ended with something like “go kill myself”. It was a whole paragraph. And from his profile on RentMasseur of all places. I never even met him.

 

What was a ? red flag, was for a “client” who I’ve never even met, to send me some completely out of character message thru RM messaging system, and expecting to get away with it. That’s real crazy and uncalled for. Like I said, he later apologized to me...but if he ever wishes to schedule me again, I’m asking for $1,000 for the inconvenience of reading that message. Since he’s a doctor with I’m sure...deep pockets. Jerk. Our ads aren’t designed to be punching bags. But If I was TRULY a red flag, I woulda took it even further.

 

Look what happened to George Floyd and Derek Chauvin. The responsible authorities failed to char him early in. And look what happened, the whole country ended up charred ? instead. Maybe if someone said, he’s a bad “client”...we need to get him straight, we wouldn’t be in the position we’re in.

 

But contrary to unpopular opinion here, I’m really not out to charbroil clients. I prefer my clients well, with a little pink in the center ?

Edited August 14, 2020 by Jarrod_Uncut

[NikoLeto]

I haven’t heard the lube scenario before this. Quite disturbing. I always offer mine but accept the escort’s too if he prefers his.

 

It has made me into one of those escorts that brings their own lube. I can't say that I never use a client's lube, but the suggestion of doing so is a bit of a boner-killer. It always freaks me out a bit and makes me reassess the situation.

 

Perhaps the framing of this original question looking for negative info opened a bigger can of woes than can be helpful

If I might seek input from providers, as I am Asking an Escort: What are the behaviors that I, as a client, can exhibit before/during session that would make me more desirable as a return client?

(Let’s assume that respectful contact, punctuality, and good hygiene will be on every provider’s list, as well as being a generous tipper after...?) Thx

 

I think I'm one of the most easy-going guys I know, but I really want to double-down on hygiene. Specifically, a person's breath plays a huge factor. I'm sensitive to the issue, so I always have a bottle of Listerine in the car, as well as those little breath strips (I know, hyper-prepared).

 

This might move into TMI, but a conservative nature when kissing is appreciated. Better to go too small and get more aggressive as chemistry dictates. I've had many a client basically open their entire mouth and try and place it on my face centered on my lips, sometimes getting my nose! It's just so common and so jarring when it happens that I wanted to mention it.

 

I mentioned this earlier, but I realized I could expand on the idea: If you have a specific fantasy in mind, or a specific execution of a specific act you want to experience, get specific. I realize this might be a me-only thing, and I would ask if there are other escorts that read this to chime in, as I know some people don't want a text trail of any kind.

 

I'm the opposite. I like to know exactly what kind of experience you're after so I can fulfill that fantasy. Don't get too caught up in the moment. I don't want to feel like you're on the other end jerking off to the details, but definitely let me know that you want xyz. This is as opposed to having a specific fantasy in mind that, for example, involves rimming someone or getting rimmed in a specific way, rather than say "Do you like getting rimmed/rimming?" say something like "I have a fantasy that involves this and this while you do this." And if you don't have a specific fantasy, stating that is equally liberating. "I'm looking to bottom, but really just want to play it by ear in the moment."

 

I guess good communication about expectations is how you'd TLDR that.

[+ RJD]

 

And I would not have regretted it 1 ☝? bit.

 

So Stop. Drop. And roll back. First of all: the person, ArmyHands, was the person who I quoted, who mentioned someone calling him mere “names”. And N word in person, is certainly not just a name. Look at how many people have lost whole contracts because of that. But I’m not going to go into that further, as this is not solely about name calling.

 

I followed up with an example I made, HOPING that people could see the actual intent, for the fact that I wasn’t so much “going to”, but more like, “why is a guy who’s partnered to another gay man, and is a doctor at a University medical center, sending me this vile offensive message? I wonder if his partner and fellow doctors would approve of this type of behavior.” And for what, because I told him I needed 2 hours notice before booking a session?

 

I can’t find the message or pull it up exactly, but it wasn’t just “names” he called me. It was something like accusing me of being an STD infested druggie, and may have ended with something like “go kill myself”. It was a whole paragraph. And from his profile on RentMasseur of all places. I never even met him.

 

What was a ? red flag, was for a “client” who I’ve never even met, to send me some completely out of character message thru RM messaging system, and expecting to get away with it. That’s real crazy and uncalled for. Like I said, he later apologized to me...but if he ever wishes to schedule me again, I’m asking for $1,000 for the inconvenience of reading that message. Since he’s a doctor with I’m sure...deep pockets. Jerk. Our ads aren’t designed to be punching bags. But If I was TRULY a red flag, I woulda took it even further.

 

Look what happened to George Floyd and Derek Chauvin. Everyone was “afraid” to not char him. And look what happened, the whole country ended up charred ? instead. Maybe if someone said, he’s a bad “client”...we need to get him straight, we wouldn’t be in the position we’re in.

 

But contrary to unpopular opinion here, I’m really not out to charbroil clients. I prefer my clients well, with a little pink in the center ?

 

I didn’t quote Army Hands, I quoted you.

 

You can spin this however you’d like. It doesn’t matter whether he called you something as benign as a jerk or as ugly as an STD infested druggie, any rational person would throw a block on his RM profile, block his number on your phone, and move on. But no, you decided you were going to blow up his life. Whether you followed through is irrelevant. What makes it worse is that you’re still justifying it. Guess what? The mere fact that you think it’s acceptable and you don’t seem to value discretion is a huge red flag. You bitch and complain about clients not respecting you or your time, yet see nothing disturbing about your own behavior.

 

And please, please tell me you didn’t compare being called names, however vile, to a man who was murdered. Please tell me I read that wrong.

[xyz48B]

How much notice were they given and what quantifies as extremely late? And it sounds like these were outcalls to you?

 

In any case, I admittedly find it hard sometimes to get to every appointment without being a little behind. I don't think people understand: when the Comcast or UPS/FEDEX man comes out, do they give an EXACT time of arrival? Sometimes you'll get "by 8 pm", but they're also running an intricately timed network.

 

I don't think people understand, calling an escort and setting a time shouldn't be seen as a written in stone thing. How many people on grindr set up a specific time to meet? Or does someone have to wait a bit. I ask clients not to plan me too close to other things they're doing if they're asking for an outcall or just in general.

 

There's the Driving/Ubering/Scootering to unfamiliar addresses, sometimes unfamiliar cities. Then there's planning meals to where an escort may need a couple hours before or after eating before attending a session. Sometimes people contact me right in the middle of dinner, or just before...thinking an hour notice is sufficient. It's not. I need time to digest, drink my wine, freshen up, run a quick porn to get in the mood, figure address route, etc. By that time, 2 hours can zoom by before we know it. its much easier to be on time, when the client comes to us...but even that's not always guaranteed, as I've had to ask guys to chill in the lobby for a minute or 2 because I wasn't ready. They usually don't mind.

 

Of course I always try to ask to ensure that it's not an issue to arrive "between" a set time, not "at" a set time. At the end of the day, we're meeting strangers, and strangers can cause butterflies, and butterflies tend to cause people's digestives to act out of character lol.

When you’re paying for an overnight, and the travel, and everything, and an escort, even through no fault of his own, is 3 hrs late yet still takes the whole amount for a 12-hr overnight that ends up being 9 hrs, and you had to reschedule the dinner reservations twice, then that’s irksome at least. Yes that’s happened to me. And when the escort is MIA in communication during those 3 hrs because of being on a plane, that’s a bit unnerving. Worse though was the escort who was coming in on a bus and wouldn’t respond to texts even though he was 2 hrs late. Did he end up showing up? Yes. But it wasn’t a pleasant, stress-free situation leading up to it and he could have mitigated that by being more responsible.

 

People generally do understand. I understand. But escorts act like theirs is the only time of value. At least some do. As stated above. If I’m paying you $2400 for 12 hrs and your travel etc. and your travel lands you at my place 3 hrs late, the decent thing to do is say, “Hey, 25% of the overnight isn’t going to happen so I’m only going to take 75% of the fee.” In such a situation I would’ve been impressed and said keep it all, and sung his praises all over. But no. He took it.

 

 

If I’m paying for time, and a 12-hr overnight is $2400, then I shouldn’t have to pay $2400 for only 9 hrs. Now – if it’s NOT time...that’s another thing. And if it’s NOT time, escorts need to stop saying time spent prepping via texting and/or phone calls need to be compensated. It’s either compensation for time, or it’s not. If we’re going to be crassly reductive about this...

[MikeBiDude]

The mere fact that you think it’s acceptable and you don’t seem to value discretion is a huge red flag

This...a hundred times over.

[xyz48B]

I guess good communication about expectations

Agreed. 100%. And exceptionally reasonable. Thing is some escorts aren't at all personally invested in making that happen. They see it as a waste of their time.

[NikoLeto]

Agreed. 100%. And exceptionally reasonable. Thing is some escorts aren't ... personally invested in making that happen. They see it as a waste of their time.

 

Lol, what? I thought that was the whole job. If that's not it, what else is there?

 

Keep in mind some fantasies are as simple as "I want to have sex with you, the escort."

[xyz48B]

Lol, what? I thought that was the whole job. If that's not it, what else is there?

 

Keep in mind some fantasies are as simple as "I want to have sex with you, the escort."

Seriously. Some escorts, on this forum even, consider the planning of time together as time to be comped for under the guise of “consultation fee.” What else is there? There’s some escorts seeing clients as ATMs they fuck.

 

To be clear, I believe escorts desire for clients to have a good time. The vast majority of them. But there are those who seem to believe they’re doing the clients a favor and forget that the client is paying for a service.

[thickornotatall]

A Brazilian escort in NYC told me that he never accepts drinks as he was drugged once by a bad client.

Good for him...I only drink from a bottle which I open...unless at a restaurant....I only offer unopened bottles with a glass and ice....I too was once drugged by a friend who thought I would think it was funny...A hit of acid in Provincetown...awful experience...As soon as I was down I packed up and left...Never spoke to him again....(July 1970)

[+ keroscenefire]

 

People generally do understand. I understand. But escorts act like theirs is the only time of value. At least some do. As stated above. If I’m paying you $2400 for 12 hrs and your travel etc. and your travel lands you at my place 3 hrs late, the decent thing to do is say, “Hey, 25% of the overnight isn’t going to happen so I’m only going to take 75% of the fee.” In such a situation I would’ve been impressed and said keep it all, and sung his praises all over. But no. He took it.

 

If I’m paying for time, and a 12-hr overnight is $2400, then I shouldn’t have to pay $2400 for only 9 hrs. Now – if it’s NOT time...that’s another thing. And if it’s NOT time, escorts need to stop saying time spent prepping via texting and/or phone calls need to be compensated.

 

Sorry that happened to you. A good escort should've given you a discount or extended the session into the morning. This once happened to me with a regular. He drives down to Denver from Montana and then continues into New Mexico and sometimes Arizona to see clients. Last summer I hired him for an overnight experience and unfortunately he had some car troubles on the way and had to get his car fixed. He ended up being like four hours late as a result It was kind of a bummer because I actually had tickets for a play (we both enjoy watching live theater together) that we couldn't use and we also missed having dinner together. But he made it up by offering a significant discount and the next morning insisted on paying for breakfast and giving me a little bit of extra time back (though not much because he had to make it down to New Mexico for another client).

 

The whole time he was very communicative and apologetic. These things happen of course and I am sure he also was upset that he lost some money on the battery and stuff. But even though I wasn't initially planning on hiring him on his return trip back to Denver, I did and gave him a nice tip so that kind of made up for it. If you treat regulars well, they will likely treat you well back in kind.

[Luv2play]

I think in these situations, where the unexpected happens before the anticipated arrival of the escort, one has to make every effort to try to retrieve the situation. In some cases this may be possible but in others it clearly doesn’t work out. For me as a client, if the changes that happen beyond either of our control, such as a car breakdown or a train that gets cancelled, one looks to whether the escort is willing to work out a solution that meets the essential wants of the client. If there has been good communication beforehand, so the escort knows what is expected out of the date, he should try to come up with an idea that solves the problem. In some cases, this may involve offering to come back at a date in the near future that would meet the expectations of the client, such as a date involving a dinner, a performance at a theatre or other event, or something that is time sensitive and can’t be accommodated by a delay of several hours in an evening and overnight session. In the final result, the client is paying not just for time but for an experience. Simply moving a 12 hour period by several hours may skew the whole evening and not be satisfactory to the client. The escort may only see it as 12 hours of time, like punching in a clock to work. But that is not the way most clients see it, unless they are just looking for 12 hours of non-stop sex!! And what escort would be happy with that? After all, in an overnight, the escort should be able to expect to get some sleep in and as a client, I also love the prospect of cuddling up and going to sleep with my partner after a great dinner, some relaxing talk and a great toss in the sheets.

[xyz48B]

If you treat regulars well, they will likely treat you well back in kind.

Exactly. Decency all around. That’s why all this trapeze work some escorts seem to expect of clients to ward off potential bad clients seems overkill to me. I think of myself as a pretty understanding guy, but I don’t like to be assumed out the gate to be a flake either.

 

Clearly I’m sending the wrong vibe to some potential providers – or some providers are just as flaky as some escorts fear of clients, only in a different way.

[xyz48B]

@Luv2play – All of everything you wrote. All of it.

[Lazarus]

Good for him...I only drink from a bottle which I open...unless at a restaurant....I only offer unopened bottles with a glass and ice....I too was once drugged by a friend who thought I would think it was funny...A hit of acid in Provincetown...awful experience...As soon as I was down I packed up and left...Never spoke to him again....(July 1970)

A hit of acid? I would love to hear the details about that trip! Acid is not something you spring on somebody. You have to plan out your trip & be in a secure place especially if it’s your first time.

[Rod Hagen]

12 hours of non-stop sex!! And what escort would be happy with that?

 

This one! I don't mind talking with my mouth full if you don't.