Bad Clients

[xyz48B]

The movie "Hooked," currently showing on Amazon Prime has a cute hustler who meets up with the ultimate bad client. It's worth watching.

Ugh. I really need to get Amazon Prime. So many folks recommend things on there…

[coriolis888]

 

snip -

 

So I am doing everything a step ahead: I screen, require a deposit, and have every client fill out a form. I’m like a walking, talking leasing office lol.

 

snip

 

THAT is the consultation. Me paying $150 for profiles and ad space, is a consultation. Any extra conversation beyond what time and address, needs to be paid for. That’s why I say, people need to send deposit very soon after texting me, as that’s services rendered.

 

 

I am sorry that I missed the punch line if this is a joke.

 

What client (who you did not previously know) would agree to your deposit demand - plus "fill out a form" in order to meet with you?

 

Are you serious that any conversation time, other than "time and address" must be paid by a client?

 

Do clients actually agree to your rules?

 

You said you do well in meeting clients using your current method.

 

As I wrote above, I am waiting for the punch line if your post is a joke.

Edited August 12, 2020 by coriolis888

[cany10011]

Oh I just thought of what we can call a bad client. Years ago I had an hour appointment at my place. Then at the end he takes out a checkbook. Of course I said, "No". He said, but my wallet is at the hotel, The Mondrian where I'd called him earlier. I asked him to just leave an envelope at the front desk for me. I called him that night and he said he had. Two days later a friend and I had Duck Tacos (I miss those) at Asia de Cuba, I went to the front desk afterward. Of course there was no envelope. This was so predictable and cliche, I just blew it off. But it does suggest that if I do give it more thought, I can come up with some bad ones. p.s. Of course the only phone number i Had for the guy was his number when he'd been staying at the hote.

 

 

Asia de Cuba! I haven’t heard that name for a long time. Truly Sex in the City vibe. I’ve only been to the original location and not the new one on Lafayette.

[NikoLeto]

On the whole, how many clients are really that bad? Is the fear and talk of a bad client really warranted? I said in a post in the Deli I’d ask this here. It seems like it’s an ongoing concern and I’m curious just how widespread bad clients are.

 

I have no doubt there are clients from hell. And flakes. I’d count flakes as bad clients for this discussion. Clients who actualize and guys who never follow through – how much of your escort energy is spent on these less-than-ideal interactions?

 

If a client turns out to be bad, would you allow him to rehire? What makes that determination for you?

 

Genuinely interested...

 

On the whole? 98% of clients are really great. They know what they're getting into and they know that the relationship originates as a business relationship and is transactional.

 

It's the clients that develop feelings, become physically violent, attempt (or succeed) at inebriating you through dubious means [the last time this happened was very recently with lube laced with some drug that made me feel nauseated and sleepy], demand more of your time that you're comfortable parting with, withdraw payment or fail to supply payment when/after/whenever services are rendered - and so much more.

 

You only need to fall prey to these tactics once to become suspicious of every future client. On some level, you're watching and trying to identify the pattern that led to the last terrible time and see if any of those warning klaxons start firing based on specific wording, vague wording, unwillingness to share information (address, room number, etc.), specific requests, implied requests, etc.

 

Hostility is a defense mechanism.

[xyz48B]

this happened was very recently with lube laced with some drug that made me feel nauseated and sleepy]

People make me sick. I’m sorry this happened.

[+ keroscenefire]

 

It's the clients that develop feelings, become physically violent, attempt (or succeed) at inebriating you through dubious means [the last time this happened was very recently with lube laced with some drug that made me feel nauseated and sleepy], demand more of your time that you're comfortable parting with, withdraw payment or fail to supply payment when/after/whenever services are rendered - and so much more.

 

I'm sorry that these things have happened to you. Although it puts into perspective some of the guys that I have hired that bring their own lube, water bottle, etc. My inclination is to sometimes say, next time we can use my lube or whatever. But I will not think twice as it might be more that they are being cautious, especially if it is a first time experience.

[Rod Hagen]

I lost track of who mentioned it, but on the subject of escorts raising their hackles when clients just want to ask questions and clarify, I get it. It makes sense that you want to be on the same page before meeting.

 

Think about this: In 1999, an escort (anyone), with decent hunting skills could land a studio in Chelsea for $900, a 1-bedroom in West Hollywood for $800, or a place in The Castro for about $900. Hourly escort rates then were the same as they are now, with the exception of 24-hour appointments which have only increased by a few hundred dollars.

 

In those days, one 48 hour appointment would pay my rent for two months, my car payment, and my car insurance. Everything else the rest of the month was gravy. And so, if I received a long email (remember email?) from a potential client, my time was free and taking the time to respond in kind was no big deal.

 

Escorts today can't pay their rent until they've had 13 hourly appointments. 13! When I was young, I could pay my rent with 4 appointments.

 

And so the frustration of going back and forth in messenger may, subconsciously, arise out of a frustration with the work involved versus the payback.

 

This doesn't mean your questions aren't reasonable, it also doesn't mean that we are living in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 or 2003 where escorts could earn a living wage and then spend the rest of the week snowboarding.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Rod Hagen

[xyz48B]

@Rod Hagen – it’s also fair to point out that in the recent history you describe, a client would also likely be more willing to spend that kind of money because the price was commensurate with the payout. That is to say, $800 went further then for the client than it does today for the client too. If the client is looking to drop money on an experience, whatever the case, he’s going to want to make sure his dollar is well spent – just as the escort is going to want to make sure he’s investing time in something that will pay back.

 

End of story: the dollar is simply worth less to escorts and clients alike, and so it affects the way both approach the market.

 

That puts a whole perspective on things.

[xyz48B]

I’m curious – are there ways that a potential good client could indicate to you that they’re honest and forthcoming without klaxons going off. In texting it can be difficult, even with close acquaintances from normal life, to convey sincerity. Sarcasm can be read where none is intended. A joke can be misread as an insult. etc. What sort of things can a potential good client do to assure an escort that they are indeed not just jerking them around? Or are after something still more nefarious?

[Aaron_Bauder]

I lost track of who mentioned it, but on the subject of escorts raising their hackles when clients just want to ask questions and clarify, I get it. It makes sense that you want to be on the same page before meeting.

 

And hardly any provider has a problem with this. Claiming that providers get upset when asked "questions to determine compatibility" is a combination of two logical fallacies: 1) reduction to the absurd and 2) strawman argument.

 

Providers don't get irritated about mere "questions," it's about the type and volume of questions. For example, peppering a provider with 25 different obvious and repetitive questions that can be answered by reading the profile and reviews, rather than asking for clarification/elaboration on a handful of salient points.

 

Acknowledging that requires a balanced, nuanced look at how we each can improve our interactions on all sides for everyone's benefit. But it's easier to introduce an absurd fake argument no one is actually making and argue against that instead, in this case to portray clients as blameless victims and providers as hostile and unreasonable.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Aaron_Bauder

[coriolis888]

 

Oh well, too bad. I rather sacrifice a bundle of serious clients, than to keep dealing with a basket ? of deplorables lol.

 

 

 

I’m just done. I’m not getting paid enough to constantly have my time wasted day in, day out, interrupting my day to day duties and hobbies. I don’t care if people don’t like how I do it. I’m going to do it how I want them to do it. If it bothers them, too bad.

 

I also don’t want to wait to “confirm” an appointment either. I’ve done that already. Idiots still find a way to bullshit even before ever getting to confirm. I don’t even want to answer my phone without being paid. I told RentMen and RentMassseur before, make people pay us $10 to get our number. They don’t want to do it. So now I have to handle it myself.

 

 

How negative!

[+ keroscenefire]

I lost track of who mentioned it, but on the subject of escorts raising their hackles when clients just want to ask questions and clarify, I get it. It makes sense that you want to be on the same page before meeting.

 

Think about this: In 1999, an escort (anyone), with decent hunting skills could land a studio in Chelsea for $900, a 1-bedroom in West Hollywood for $800, or a place in The Castro for about $900. Hourly escort rates then were the same as they are now, with the exception of 24-hour appointments which have only increased by a few hundred dollars.

 

In those days, one 48 hour appointment would pay my rent for two months, my car payment, and my car insurance. Everything else the rest of the month was gravy. And so, if I received a long email (remember email?) from a potential client, my time was free and taking the time to respond in kind was no big deal.

 

Escorts today can't pay their rent until they've had 13 hourly appointments. 13! When I was young, I could pay my rent with 4 appointments.

 

And so the frustration of going back and forth in messenger may, subconsciously, arise out of a frustration with the work involved versus the payback.

 

This doesn't mean your questions aren't reasonable, it also doesn't mean that we are living in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 or 2003 where escorts could earn a living wage and then spend the rest of the week snowboarding.

Definitely true...Denver has gotten much more expensive too and absolutely it is often hard to support oneself on escorting alone. And traveling escorts have to support substantial travel costs which often means at least 2-3 clients a day just to make the trip worth it. That's why even though I like longer sessions, I either work with the provider to find a good donation they are comfortable with or just go for the one-hour so they can get to other clients they need.

[Rod Hagen]

@Rod Hagen That is to say, $800 went further then for the client than it does today for the client too

 

I'm sorry, I don't think I understand what you're saying. In 1999, $800 bought, on the whole/hole, 4 hours with an escort. In 2020, $800 is 4 hours with an escort, on the hole/whole. How is client money going less far these days?

[Rod Hagen]

Providers don't get irritated about mere "questions," it's about the type and volume of questions. For example, peppering a provider with 25 different obvious and repetitive questions that can be answered by reading the profile and reviews, rather than picking a handful of salient points for clarification.

 

Oh believe me it was much "worse" in the days of email where the same thing would sometimes happen, but the back and forth responses were in full, long, sentences. I have emails from potential clients 20 years ago that were pages long, and so were my responses, and the responses to those response, ad nauseam.

[EastbayMike]

How negative!

Careful! Don't poke the bear.

[Rod Hagen]

without klaxons going off.

Ooo, I love that word. Thank you for it.

[NikoLeto]

I’m curious – are there ways that a potential good client could indicate to you that they’re honest and forthcoming without klaxons going off. In texting it can be difficult, even with close acquaintances from normal life, to convey sincerity. Sarcasm can be read where none is intended. A joke can be misread as an insult. etc. What sort of things can a potential good client do to assure an escort that they are indeed not just jerking them around? Or are after something still more nefarious?

 

I think, in most cases, if you start by establishing a meeting time and place, then follow on with your expectations (kissing, oral, etc.) - for me, at least - I feel like the client has a clear objective and they are just clarifying details important to them for the experience to be worth their money.

[+ keroscenefire]

I'm sorry, I don't think I understand what you're saying. In 1999, $800 bought, on the whole/hole, 4 hours with an escort. In 2020, $800 is 4 hours with an escort, on the hole/whole. How is client money going less far these days?

 

I'm not 100 percent but I think XYZ is saying that clients too are having to spend more of their money on rent, mortgages, other living costs, etc. So a client may have a harder time parting with $800 for an escort now than they would have in the early 00s or whenever.

[Rod Hagen]

I'm not 100 percent but I think XYZ is saying that clients too are having to spend more of their money on rent, mortgages, other living costs, etc. So a client may have a harder time parting with $800 for an escort now than they would have in the early 00s or whenever.

 

Oh, I see, thank you. I often assume that, unlike escorts, everyone else's salary has increased in the last twenty years--an escort hour was $200/average 21 years ago and it's average $200/hour now. I have to stop doing that.

[+ keroscenefire]

Oh, I see, thank you. I often assume that, unlike escorts, everyone else's salary has increased in the last twenty years--an escort hour was $200/average 21 years ago and it's average $200/hour now. I have to stop doing that.

 

Yeah I think it depends. I work in public education so I am definitely very middle of the middle class. Haha. I literally found out today we are getting a .5% raise this year because of budget cuts and will have to pay 2.5% more into our pension, so we effectively got a pay cut. Fortunately not enough to really effect me in a significant way and certainly I am glad to have a job at all. But yeah, not racking in the big bucks over here.

[+ RJD]

I can’t tell you what I’d do if someone sent me such texts, as it would upset the “Puritanical” sex seekers of the forum.... but I’ll just say I tried very hard one time, not to email a scathing RM message a client who I’d not even met yet... sent to me, something along the lines of me being some con artist and a druggie. But far worse.

 

Fortunately, he apologized and admitted HE was being a prick.... due to other providers standing him up; before I sent it to the hospital he worked AND his partner. Instead, I just reported him to RM and they reprimanded him before I could. I woulda charred ? him.

 

Did you, a provider, actually write on a public forum frequented by clients that you were going to contact the employer and partner of a man (potential client) who you never met, didn't cheat you out of money and you "woulda charred" because he called you names?

 

If this isn’t a red flag for every client out there, I don't know what is.

[xyz48B]

I'm not 100 percent but I think XYZ is saying that clients too are having to spend more of their money on rent, mortgages, other living costs, etc. So a client may have a harder time parting with $800 for an escort now than they would have in the early 00s or whenever.

Yeah. You said it better than I did! Sorry @Rod Hagen...Oral processor here!

[xyz48B]

Oh, I see, thank you. I often assume that, unlike escorts, everyone else's salary has increased in the last twenty years--an escort hour was $200/average 21 years ago and it's average $200/hour now. I have to stop doing that.

That much might be true, but I believe studies have shown that incomes haven’t increased at the same rate as expenses. At the moment, I don’t have the data handy.

[xyz48B]

If this isn’t a red flag for every client out there, I don't know what is.

Un.ac.cept.a.ble…

 

It’s one thing to think something; it’s another to write it in a (semi)public forum. Any provider who would write that, even about the worst clients, sends a clear signal that discretion is not at all important.

 

It reminds me of the review of Collin in Boston on Daddy’s. Bad behavior on the part of the escort will get out.

[BaronArtz]

I'm sorry, I don't think I understand what you're saying. In 1999, $800 bought, on the whole/hole, 4 hours with an escort. In 2020, $800 is 4 hours with an escort, on the hole/whole. How is client money going less far these days?

 

You are comparing the cost of 4-hour appointments. A more reasonable comparison is the cost of an hourly appointment which, I think, is more common, In 1999, I didn't pay $300/hour ... $200/hour max. And that is in NYC.