Please stop this “Total Top Only” crap!

[biggerbilly]

Pre-rant clarification:

 

Before I go on my angry rant, I want to first clarify a few things. I am not in anyway arguing against people being total Tops or Bottoms. I myself am a total Top, and I feel people shouldn’t be ashamed of what they like to do sexually. By extension, I am also not arguing against escorts advertising as total Tops are Bottoms. I definitely don’t want an escort to do anything they don’t want to do, or not be able to deliver something they can’t.

 

Angry Rant:

 

YOU GREEDY BOTTOMS ARE GETTING ON MY FUCKING NERVES RIGHT NOW! IT’S BAD ENOUGH THAT THE INDUSTRY IS ALREADY GEARED TOWARDS YOU, MUST YOU FUCKING MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR EVERYONE ELSE TOO!

 

Normal Rant:

 

Okay, so as a Top I known I’m in the minority of the escort hiring market. I try my very best to accept that. Every time a sexy guy gets posted to Deli, I know not to get my hopes up because he’s probably going to end up being a total Top. If I’m lucky, he will be a Top/Verse and I can start the uncomfortable process of decoding what that really means.

 

Sometimes, I’ll mention my disappointment in someone being a top and I will get the same response. “Well I’m sure if you make a good enough offer,” someone will say, ”he maybe persuaded to go the extra mile.” Wonderful, $350 is not enough. I have to shell out more now.

 

Well today, I show a post that just pissed me the fuck off. In a discussion about one of the many guys I would kill to hire (but can’t because he advertises as only a top) a guy says he wouldn’t hire him because he bottomed in a film. Suggesting that he wasn’t a real top. Excuse me? Seriously WTF!!!! I have to go out of my fucking way to find someone who will agree to bottom, while you can just push aside someone who took it up the butt once?

 

 

You asshole! You’re the one ruining it for me. You’re the reason everyone guy has to advertise as a Top, and put “100% Top,” “Total Top” “Don’t ask me to bottom,” all over their profile. You’re the fucking reason I’m having to decode every profile I see, just to find a clue he may agree to bottom. You’re the one who makes me have to constantly ask what the hell a Verse Top is! You’re the reason I have to pay more money to do most of the fucking work! FUCK OFF YOU, AND ALL YOU GREEDY BOTTOM BITCHES! IF YOU WANT A TOTAL TOP, HIRE A GUY BORN WITHOUT A FUCKING ANUS!!!

[Bearofdistinction]

Pre-rant clarification:

 

Before I go on my angry rant, I want to first clarify a few things. I am not in anyway arguing against people being total Tops or Bottoms. I myself am a total Top, and I feel people shouldn’t be ashamed of what they like to do sexually. By extension, I am also not arguing against escorts advertising as total Tops are Bottoms. I definitely don’t want an escort to do anything they don’t want to do, or not be able to deliver something they can’t.

 

Angry Rant:

 

YOU GREEDY BOTTOMS ARE GETTING ON MY FUCKING NERVES RIGHT NOW! IT’S BAD ENOUGH THAT THE INDUSTRY IS ALREADY GEARED TOWARDS YOU, MUST YOU FUCKING MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR EVERYONE ELSE TOO!

 

Normal Rant:

 

Okay, so as a Top I known I’m in the minority of the escort hiring market. I try my very best to accept that. Every time a sexy guy gets posted to Deli, I know not to get my hopes up because he’s probably going to end up being a total Top. If I’m lucky, he will be a Top/Verse and I can start the uncomfortable process of decoding what that really means.

 

Sometimes, I’ll mention my disappointment in someone being a top and I will get the same response. “Well I’m sure if you make a good enough offer,” someone will say, ”he maybe persuaded to go the extra mile.” Wonderful, $350 is not enough. I have to shell out more now.

 

Well today, I show a post that just pissed me the fuck off. In a discussion about one of the many guys I would kill to hire (but can’t because he advertises as only a top) a guy says he wouldn’t hire him because he bottomed in a film. Suggesting that he wasn’t a real top. Excuse me? Seriously WTF!!!! I have to go out of my fucking way to find someone who will agree to bottom, while you can just push aside someone who took it up the butt once?

 

 

You asshole! You’re the one ruining it for me. You’re the reason everyone guy has to advertise as a Top, and put “100% Top,” “Total Top” “Don’t ask me to bottom,” all over their profile. You’re the fucking reason I’m having to decode every profile I see, just to find a clue he may agree to bottom. You’re the one who makes me have to constantly ask what the hell a Verse Top is! You’re the reason I have to pay more money to do most of the fucking work! FUCK OFF YOU, AND ALL YOU GREEDY BOTTOM BITCHES! IF YOU WANT A TOTAL TOP, HIRE A GUY BORN WITHOUT A FUCKING ANUS!!!

 

Yeah - - - - Okay --- I am gonna go back to weaving chain mail for pigs

[alkan]

I don't think that there is a rule that life has to be fair, either financially or sexually. Personally though, I have never understood the word "total" in this context. Obviously I know what it means and I know people apply it to themselves with intention but surely "top" or "bottom" can only describe preference because of past experience and therefore does not need the qualifier "total". Or am I just being stupid?

[maninsoma]

Of course you could take your own advice since I assume that you, too, have an anus. You don't have to be a total top either. Try bottoming again. You might find out that you like it.

[+ José Soplanucas]

I don't think that there is a rule that life has to be fair, either financially or sexually. Personally though, I have never understood the word "total" in this context. Obviously I know what it means and I know people apply it to themselves with intention but surely "top" or "bottom" can only describe preference because of past experience and therefore does not need the qualifier "total". Or am I just being stupid?

Agree. Adding total to top has always sounded to me like a reveling need for unnecessary emphasis.

[+ Eric Hassan]

Maybe you could try things that aren’t anal.

 

And, I get your frustration. I hope you are not paying people extra to get what you want. You deserve to pay the same as everyone else.

 

Also, please have some space for our vulnerability. I think many guys who might normally bottom here and there may not as escorts because it invites another level of vulnerability he may not want to commit to.

[+ nycman]

It’s awalys fun when someone else losses their shit

in public over something that drives you nuts as well.

 

Saves me the trouble of looking like a lunatic...lmao

 

In the mean time...enjoy the hunt for the elusive masculine

bottom escort. He’s out there, you just have to be vewy, vewy

quiet when hunting him. He startles easily.

[TruthBTold]

. . . .

Okay, so as a Top I known I’m in the minority of the escort hiring market. I try my very best to accept that. Every time a sexy guy gets posted to Deli, I know not to get my hopes up because he’s probably going to end up being a total Top. If I’m lucky, he will be a Top/Verse and I can start the uncomfortable process of decoding what that really means. . . . .

 

In my experience, if may mean that you have to spend a good amount of time rimming and fingering so that they are begging to be fucked. Follow that up with a little (or lot) of hard cock titillation of his hole. I am more than willing to do that and rather enjoy it. Of course, it does not mean that he will acquiesce and let you fuck him. But trying to get him to can be fun and if he won't, he won't. You know to throw his number away.

 

More confusing for me is an instance where a guy flags himself as a top in his profile. I am versatile and do want to get topped in most cases but also want a little top time. But oddly he says that he will bottom in very "special" cases. What does that mean? Does it mean that after meeting me I am not "special" enough (perhaps I am not muscular enough or my cock is not bit enough - I don't ask him in the moment). I know I shouldn't but it makes me feel deficient.

[MichBoyBlake]

In the mean time...enjoy the hunt for the elusive masculine

bottom escort. He’s out there, you just have to be vewy, vewy

quiet when hunting him. He startles easily.

 

Hi..!

(well ok maybe not like crazy masc)

[rvwnsd]

Am I the only one who loves @biggerbilly’s avatar?

[mike carey]

I remember when I first started reading gay hookup sites I saw guys who said they are total tops in hookups but totally versatile in a relationship. I think that sums it up. People have their preferences but they are influenced by circumstances. I understand the OP (or is that OR's) frustration that some men don't accept that an escort is a top if he ever bottomed. That is crazy. To the extent that that view influences escorts to say they are total tops I sympathise. But I don't think many escorts would say that. How many escorts are so focussed on the 'I only hire total tops' market that they advertise as such. Most clients (I suspect) who want a top want someone who can do the job and don't care if the guy has bottomed once. (I would add that I have read here that the best tops are those who have bottomed and know what it's like to do so). I suspect that the real issue is that most escorts prefer to top, so seeking one who bottoms is a negotiation, but there are guys out there who advertise as bottoms. Don't assume that the total tops are catering to 'only tops' clients, that may be what they really want. And for clients, spare a thought that an escort may be versatile in private but choose to be only a top professionally. If that's what he wants, get used to it.

[biggerbilly]

I knew people were going to ignore my first paragraph, lol.

 

I’m not asking for anything to be fair, I’m asking for people to do what they don’t want.

 

Basically, my point can be boiled down to the following, “take the win!”

 

As someone who has accepted there being not as many bottoms and verse guys to choose from, I find it crazy that a guy can advertise as a Top, put in his ad that he will only Top, and someone can just say pass because they saw him bottom once.

[biggerbilly]

I remember when I first started reading gay hookup sites I saw guys who said they are total tops in hookups but totally versatile in a relationship. I think that sums it up. People have their preferences but they are influenced by circumstances. I understand the OP (or is that OR's) frustration that some men don't accept that an escort is a top if he ever bottomed. That is crazy. To the extent that that view influences escorts to say they are total tops I sympathise. But I don't think many escorts would say that. How many escorts are so focussed on the 'I only hire total tops' market that they advertise as such. Most clients (I suspect) who want a top want someone who can do the job and don't care if the guy has bottomed once. (I would add that I have read here that the best tops are those who have bottomed and know what it's like to do so). I suspect that the real issue is that most escorts prefer to top, so seeking one who bottoms is a negotiation, but there are guys out there who advertise as bottoms. Don't assume that the total tops are catering to 'only tops' clients, that may be what they really want. And for clients, spare a thought that an escort may be versatile in private but choose to be only a top professionally. If that's what he wants, get used to it.

First, I’m glad someone got what I was saying!

 

Now on to the part I’ve bolded, I can think of several escorts that have gone from verse to verse/top to just tops. I can’t speak to way each of these guys did this. However, I did message a guy who went from verse to verse/Top. I asked if he wasn’t interested in bottoming anymore, and he told me he was as versatile as he always was. He was attracting more eyes to his profile. He did eventually go back to verse.

 

Like I said, I’ve seen a lot of guys go into the direction of total top. I never seen it go the other way. But I haven’t been here for forever, maybe someone can point me to guys that have gone the other way? I really interested in learning that this has happened a few times, so if you got it, share!

[biggerbilly]

Am I the only one who loves @biggerbilly’s avatar?

I love it too!

[+ sniper]

I

 

More confusing for me is an instance where a guy flags himself as a top in his profile. I am versatile and do want to get topped in most cases but also want a little top time. But oddly he says that he will bottom in very "special" cases. What does that mean? Does it mean that after meeting me I am not "special" enough (perhaps I am not muscular enough or my cock is not bit enough - I don't ask him in the moment). I know I shouldn't but it makes me feel deficient.

 

I suspect a lot of escorts avoid bottoming for clients, and people with partners avoid bottoming with hookups because it's the single riskiest activity for HIV. Yes once you do anything where risk is nonzero you need to take precautions and yes the risk can be driven to nearly zero but it's still orders of magnitude higher risk for bottoming than for any other single activity. And they might relax that rule once they get to know someone and have a higher level of trust in them.

[biggerbilly]

Maybe you could try things that aren’t anal.

 

And, I get your frustration. I hope you are not paying people extra to get what you want. You deserve to pay the same as everyone else.

 

Also, please have some space for our vulnerability. I think many guys who might normally bottom here and there may not as escorts because it invites another level of vulnerability he may not want to commit to.

Hey Eric, I tried to clarify this in my first paragraph. I am not asking for escorts to be what they’re are not, or do what they don’t want to.

 

No, I don’t pay more. On several occasions people on here made it a point of saying that that was a thing to do. It drives me nuts every time I see that. I accept what a guy puts in his profile. If he a top, I move on. I may sometimes vent my frustrations (like now) but I accept things.

 

Just to clarify one more time, it’s others not doing the same that gets to me. Accept that a guy saying he’s a top, is a top.

[+ Eric Hassan]

Hey Eric, I tried to clarify this in my first paragraph. I am not asking for escorts to be what they’re are not, or do what they don’t want to.

 

No, I don’t pay more. On several occasions people on here made it a point of saying that that was a thing to do. It drives me nuts every time I see that. I accept what a guy puts in his profile. If he a top, I move on. I may sometimes vent my frustrations (like now) but I accept things.

 

Just to clarify one more time, it’s others not doing the same that gets to me. Accept that a guy saying he’s a top, is a top.

 

I understand and appreciate the clarification! I'm glad you were able to let it off your chest!

[+ José Soplanucas]

I suspect a lot of escorts avoid bottoming for clients, and people with partners avoid bottoming with hookups because it's the single riskiest activity for HIV. Yes once you do anything where risk is nonzero you need to take precautions and yes the risk can be driven to nearly zero but it's still orders of magnitude higher risk for bottoming than for any other single activity. And they might relax that rule once they get to know someone and have a higher level of trust in them.

 

The guy bottoming is the most vulnerable one to get a wide arrange of harms.

My sources tell me there is not shortage of tops, there is shortage of good tops. If you are a self-centered lover in a money power trip, imagine the damage you can do down there. A sex worker cannot afford to be harmed.

[MartyB]

If I'm viewing an ad on Rentmen and the escort proclaims total top and claiming to have a 10" dick I move on. Top/Versatile means to me they are predominantly a top which is not a problem but it always confuses me. Being a man who really enjoys being versatile and find that incredibly hot in an escort it opens up the possibilities of a great experience. I think that's why when I find an escort that I'm very comfortable with who creates great chemistry and heat I tend to become a repeat client. Guys who proclaim the are "straight" and only top doesn't mean they are straight either. Gay for pay means to me your gay. Lol As much as I like being a top I find it incredibly sexy and amazing when a great top pushes my envelope and creates a great erotic experience. Being able to open up like that and experience that kind of intimacy is amazing.

[+ Gar1eth]

I don't think that there is a rule that life has to be fair, either financially or sexually. Personally though, I have never understood the word "total" in this context. Obviously I know what it means and I know people apply it to themselves with intention but surely "top" or "bottom" can only describe preference because of past experience and therefore does not need the qualifier "total". Or am I just being stupid?

 

While not being stupid, there are some predictabilities. For non-professionals-well let’s just say that I have no intention of bottoming at this time, and that most likely will be my intention forever. I’ve often that about what might happen if I were no longer able to top. And at least thinking in the abstract future , I still don’t think I want to bottom. So I should probably let people know that I don’t want to be cajoled into trying it.

 

As for the pros, it might cut down slightly on the number of contacts that are never going to lead to a meeting. Maybe.

 

Gman

[Nvr2Thick]

Well today, I show a post that just pissed me the fuck off. In a discussion about one of the many guys I would kill to hire (but can’t because he advertises as only a top) a guy says he wouldn’t hire him because he bottomed in a film. Suggesting that he wasn’t a real top. Excuse me? Seriously WTF!!!! I have to go out of my fucking way to find someone who will agree to bottom, while you can just push aside someone who took it up the butt once?

 

 

You asshole! You’re the one ruining it for me. You’re the reason everyone guy has to advertise as a Top, and put “100% Top,” “Total Top” “Don’t ask me to bottom,” all over their profile. You’re the fucking reason I’m having to decode every profile I see, just to find a clue he may agree to bottom. You’re the one who makes me have to constantly ask what the hell a Verse Top is!

 

I'm an unapologetic "total" bottom. I haven't tried to top anyone in decades. Early on I believe that I was interested in topping because I was ashamed to be gay, and I thought that topping somehow lessened the stigma -- as a concession to our homophobic culture's perception of faggots who take it up the ass. Later I would top partners who imagined themselves to be mostly top, but who wanted to bottom for me. Some of those guys honestly wanted to bottom from time to time, but with others it was just poor communication between myself and tops who thought I wanted to top them too. I've always been happiest sexually with tops who have little to no interest in bottoming, and guys who aren't all that interested in sucking dick -- men who enjoy being pleased.

 

The primary reason I seek out "total" tops is because the emphasis is often necessary. Whether I'm looking for a hookup or an escort I'm very clear about my expectations for a partner who is dominant and into a one-sided session, however, it seems that a lot of guys put up a front that falls away when we meet. When I would troll Craigslist for cocksucking hookups I'd clearly state in my ad that I was looking for a non-reciprocal "trade" situation. That might be verified in back and forth e-mail, and yet often the guy I meet would want then want to jack me off or suck me too. In my 20s and 30s I had the same problem with top escorts who were far more versatile than they'd advertised or who became more interested in a reciprocal session in spite of the theme of their ads and in spite of what we'd discussed.

 

I've also talked to a fair number of escort tops who are much more versatile when they're not with clients, for whatever reason. I can think of a few I've met who explained it the way some escorts explain kissing -- bottoming is an intimate act that they don't care to share with a client. I've also known of escorts and guys looking for hookups on A4A who prefer that their public personas are those of "total" tops; they're very versatile when they date, but the image they portray online and to the guys they meet casually is one of a guy who doesn't bottom -- again for a variety of reasons, including some form of vanity or being uncomfortable with the homophobic stigma of being a bottom.

 

I believe your interpretation of the situation is misguided. The expectations of total bottoms is not what is distorting the meaning of top or "total top" in the market. You're dealing with a reality of gay life. It's always been impossible to distinguish between the desires of men who are tops and men who are tops. As a total bottom it's not my fault that men are inconsistent in their self-assessment as tops. For any number of reasons some guys are less than honest about their own sexual interests and expectations.

[biggerbilly]

I'm an unapologetic "total" bottom. I haven't tried to top anyone in decades. Early on I believe that I was interested in topping because I was ashamed to be gay, and I thought that topping somehow lessened the stigma -- as a concession to our homophobic culture's perception of faggots who take it up the ass. Later I would top partners who imagined themselves to be mostly top, but who wanted to bottom for me. Some of those guys honestly wanted to bottom from time to time, but with others it was just poor communication between myself and tops who thought I wanted to top them too. I've always been happiest sexually with tops who have little to no interest in bottoming, and guys who aren't all that interested in sucking dick -- men who enjoy being pleased.

 

The primary reason I seek out "total" tops is because the emphasis is often necessary. Whether I'm looking for a hookup or an escort I'm very clear about my expectations for a partner who is dominant and into a one-sided session, however, it seems that a lot of guys put up a front that falls away when we meet. When I would troll Craigslist for cocksucking hookups I'd clearly state in my ad that I was looking for a non-reciprocal "trade" situation. That might be verified in back and forth e-mail, and yet often the guy I meet would want then want to jack me off or suck me too. In my 20s and 30s I had the same problem with top escorts who were far more versatile than they'd advertised or who became more interested in a reciprocal session in spite of the theme of their ads and in spite of what we'd discussed.

 

I've also talked to a fair number of escort tops who are much more versatile when they're not with clients, for whatever reason. I can think of a few I've met who explained it the way some escorts explain kissing -- bottoming is an intimate act that they don't care to share with a client. I've also known of escorts and guys looking for hookups on A4A who prefer that their public personas are those of "total" tops; they're very versatile when they date, but the image they portray online and to the guys they meet casually is one of a guy who doesn't bottom -- again for a variety of reasons, including some form of vanity or being uncomfortable with the homophobic stigma of being a bottom.

 

I believe your interpretation of the situation is misguided. The expectations of total bottoms is not what is distorting the meaning of top or "total top" in the market. You're dealing with a reality of gay life. It's always been impossible to distinguish between the desires of men who are tops and men who are tops. As a total bottom it's not my fault that men are inconsistent in their self-assessment as tops. For any number of reasons some guys are less than honest about their own sexual interests and expectations.

Believe it or not, I don’t disagree with the majority of your post. I just categorize it differently. I think what you are talking about is false advertising. If I promise you one type of service but deliver another, then that wrong and I deserve all the negative reviews you can give me.

 

However, if I promise you a professional service and I deliver that service, but later on you find out that I personally do something else, is that wrong? Am I a liar?

 

Everyone talks about bottom shaming, which I don’t like or understand. But, people seem to not acknowledge the top shaming that goes on. As a top, apparently I’m a closet case who’s not in touch with my sexual. That I have issues with gay men, and I’m secretly a homophobe. This is surprising, all this time I just thought I like how topping made my penis feel, and the look on my partners face. Apparently, I hate them. Who knew?

[Rudynate]

Believe it or not, I don’t disagree with the majority of your post. I just categorize it differently. I think what you are talking about is false advertising. If I promise you one type of service but deliver another, then that wrong and I deserve all the negative reviews you can give me.

 

However, if I promise you a professional service and I deliver that service, but later on you find out that I personally do something else, is that wrong? Am I a liar?

 

Everyone talks about bottom shaming, which I don’t like or understand. But, people seem to not acknowledge the top shaming that goes on. As a top, apparently I’m a closet case who’s not in touch with my sexual. That I have issues with gay men, and I’m secretly a homophobe. This is surprising, all this time I just thought I like how topping made my penis feel, and the look on my partners face. Apparently, I hate them. Who knew?

 

I think there are more bottoms than tops, in general. It seems there are more top escorts than bottom escorts. But the high number of top escorts is a reflection of the fact that most of the guys doing the hiring are bottoms. Supply and demand.

 

He doesn't seem to be advertising any more, but there was a guy in Sacramento, a complete fucking stud man, who is a total bottom.

[biggerbilly]

I think there are more bottoms than tops.

Which is why I don’t get bottom shaming, isn’t that just called self-loathing?

[Rudynate]

Which is why I don’t get bottom shaming, isn’t that just called self-loathing?

 

Of course it is. Self-loathing crops up in many places and in many forms.