Please stop this “Total Top Only” crap!

[+ Gar1eth]

I think there are more bottoms than tops, in general. It seems there are more top escorts than bottom escorts. But the high number of top escorts is a reflection of the fact that most of the guys doing the hiring are bottoms. Supply and demand.

 

 

It’s an interesting biological/developmental question. One could make a case-at least using pop psychology/looking at it as a layman as opposed to using scientific rigorous knowledge-that men in general should be inclined to be tops as that’s what biologically we are mostly designed to be. Of course then you get the question of where does homosexuality come from unless homosexuality somehow strengthened pack/tribal bonds or was a way of showing submission to a dominant male. Of course in that last scenario the basis of bottoming isn’t difficult to figure out.

 

Gman

[Nvr2Thick]

Believe it or not, I don’t disagree with the majority of your post. I just categorize it differently. I think what you are talking about is false advertising. If I promise you one type of service but deliver another, then that wrong and I deserve all the negative reviews you can give me.

 

However, if I promise you a professional service and I deliver that service, but later on you find out that I personally do something else, is that wrong? Am I a liar?

 

Everyone talks about bottom shaming, which I don’t like or understand. But, people seem to not acknowledge the top shaming that goes on. As a top, apparently I’m a closet case who’s not in touch with my sexual. That I have issues with gay men, and I’m secretly a homophobe. This is surprising, all this time I just thought I like how topping made my penis feel, and the look on my partners face. Apparently, I hate them. Who knew?

 

It's definitely false advertising. Whether you're talking about escorts or just men meeting men this is a situation where someone is lying about his intentions. I just think that there are a number of reasons and influences. Someone could be lying to himself about how dominant he is, or it could just be that he feels it's OK to stretch the truth in order to make contact with the client or the hookup -- he wants the business as an escort or he wants the sexual encounter as a hookup, and he's willing to do so under false pretenses, for example.

 

Which is why I don’t get bottom shaming, isn’t that just called self-loathing?

 

It isn't just self-loathing; it can be outwardly manifest, and it's often been ingrained by society. I can remember participating in jokes and insults targeting faggots as a child, before I could possibly even understand.

 

I understand what you're saying about top shaming, but I think it's not all that common.

[Rudynate]

It's definitely false advertising. Whether you're talking about escorts or just men meeting men this is a situation where someone is lying about his intentions. I just think that there are a number of reasons and influences. Someone could be lying to himself about how dominant he is, or it could just be that he feels it's OK to stretch the truth in order to make contact with the client or the hookup -- he wants the business as an escort or he wants the sexual encounter as a hookup, and he's willing to do so under false pretenses, for example.

 

 

 

It isn't just self-loathing; it can be outwardly manifest, and it's often been ingrained by society.

 

Isn't that self-loathing? Someone realizes he's different from what society deems correct or proper and he despises himself because of it?

[MichBoyBlake]

maybe I'm crazy but I haven't really ever seen like, serious "top-shaming" or "bottom-shaming" at all...

I advertise as vers/bottom and I don't think it's false advertising, but it's definitely a lot harder for me top than it is to bottom, and I think it'd really depend on the client.

 

I have the opposite of the weird intimacy thing that everyone seems to have lol. I'm generally only all that comfortable topping with guys I'm in serious, committed relationships with.

[marylander1940]

While not being stupid, there are some predictabilities. For non-professionals-well let’s just say that I have no intention of bottoming at this time, and that most likely will be my intention forever. I’ve often that about what might happen if I were no longer able to top. And at least thinking in the abstract future , I still don’t think I want to bottom. So I should probably let people know that I don’t want to be cajoled into trying it.

 

As for the pros, it might cut down slightly on the number of contacts that are never going to lead to a meeting. Maybe.

 

Gman

 

A true top is the one who tried bottoming and couldn't or didn't like it.

 

@Robster You are a true top, I pointed that out on another thread about a similar subject.

 

If I'm viewing an ad on Rentmen and the escort proclaims total top and claiming to have a 10" dick I move on. Top/Versatile means to me they are predominantly a top which is not a problem but it always confuses me. Being a man who really enjoys being versatile and find that incredibly hot in an escort it opens up the possibilities of a great experience. I think that's why when I find an escort that I'm very comfortable with who creates great chemistry and heat I tend to become a repeat client. Guys who proclaim the are "straight" and only top doesn't mean they are straight either. Gay for pay means to me your gay. Lol As much as I like being a top I find it incredibly sexy and amazing when a great top pushes my envelope and creates a great erotic experience. Being able to open up like that and experience that kind of intimacy is amazing.

 

Many (older out of shape) bottoms are afraid a top/versatile won't be able to get it up and keep it up for fucking, maybe that's why they only want to hire 100% tops. Some even have the fantasy of only hiring a straight of bi guy...

 

maybe I'm crazy but I haven't really ever seen like, serious "top-shaming" or "bottom-shaming" at all...

I advertise as vers/bottom and I don't think it's false advertising, but it's definitely a lot harder for me top than it is to bottom, and I think it'd really depend on the client.

 

I have the opposite of the weird intimacy thing that everyone seems to have lol. I'm generally only all that comfortable topping with guys I'm in serious, committed relationships with.

 

Exactly many guys find it easier to be hired as bottoms instead of tops, some also prefer to bottom for hooks ups too.

 

Thanks for your honest post!

 

@biggerbilly don't you worry, you have plenty of guys who are bottoms or mostly bottoms out there, keep on hiring them.

[hornymm]

Is someone saying they are totally versatile or a total bottom also annoying?

[MichBoyBlake]

Exactly many guys find it easier to be hired as bottoms instead of tops, some also prefer to bottom for hooks ups too.

 

Thanks for your honest post!

 

To be fair I'm more of a bottom in general lol. For some reason topping feels like, more intimate to me than bottoming I guess. idk why. I think for most guys it's the other way around lol.

[Nvr2Thick]

Isn't that self-loathing? Someone realizes he's different from what society deems correct or proper and he despises himself because of it?

 

Yes, but it can also be someone perceiving that someone else differs from what society deems is proper or correct. Seems to me that this subtopic was "bottom shaming." Shaming is outward -- disapproval of others. Granted sometimes shaming others can be motivated by one's own personal issues or demons.

[LivingnLA]

I may be outdated, the research in human sexuality is hard to keep up with nowadays, but the whole concept of "top" and "bottom" doesn't really have a biological basis. They're culturally constructed concepts based on a whole host of biases, assumptions, and ideas around gender, sexuality, power, pleasure, and more.

 

Physiologically, generally speaking, pretty much any man is capable of "topping" or "bottoming." Psychologically, it's a very different matter because cultural/environmental experiences are more powerful.

 

For example, and speaking in a grossly general way, research is leading to an idea about psychological issues and their psychosomatic expressions as a driver in ED cases, though that doesn't minimize physiological causes. I contend "psychological issues" drive stated preferences for "topping" or "bottoming."

 

Personally, my "kink" preference for "straight guys" is coupled with a very deep and vexing complex of issues I've been working on for many years around wanting to "submit" to a "real man." Thanks to this forum, this hobby, and my experiences, I have made a great deal of personal growth around these issues. Thank you to everyone on this forum for being part of this personal journey.

Edited April 11, 2018 by LivingnLA

[Rudynate]

Yes, but it can also be someone perceiving that someone else differs from what society deems is proper or correct. Seems to me that this subtopic was "bottom shaming." Shaming is outward -- disapproval of others. Granted sometimes shaming others can be motivated by one's own personal issues or demons.

 

But isn't the shame experienced by the object of the shaming? Would somebody who is bottom-shaming somebody be ashamed of the other guy being a bottom?

[marylander1940]

To be fair I'm more of a bottom in general lol. For some reason topping feels like, more intimate to me than bottoming I guess. idk why. I think for most guys it's the other way around lol.

 

You were born for this, awesome!

[+ José Soplanucas]

Total Bottom, Total Top, Total Vers, why do you guys care so much about these freaking labels????? Sorry for being a Total Asshole.

[Nvr2Thick]

But isn't the shame experienced by the object of the shaming? Would somebody who is bottom-shaming somebody be ashamed of the other guy being a bottom?

 

You've lost me. You asked if bottom shaming is self loathing. The act of bottom shaming isn't necessarily self loathing. The victim of shaming may experience self loathing as a result, but bottom shaming itself is an outward act.

[MikeyGMin]

I suspect a lot of escorts avoid bottoming for clients, and people with partners avoid bottoming with hookups because it's the single riskiest activity for HIV

There is also that pesky practical issue of being cleaned out and ready to go. Douching is not particularly good for you. Certainly not douching one or more times per day. For the client, it's no big deal. It's a special occasion. But it can be a lot of work for an escort to bottom regularly, and God forbid there be the least little mess, he would get shredded for being unprofessional!

 

As for the cause of the OPs rant... anyone who would say he is not "top enough" for me because he has bottomed at one time or another, is an asshole. And not the good kind.

[biggerbilly]

It’s funny that there is general consensus for what a true top is. Macho, straight acting He-man top. I wonder if there’s a general consensus for a true bottom?

 

I don’t have one. Do any of the tops here have one? I just like a guy that loves getting fucked. I find the twinks on Helix extremely sexy because they enjoy getting rammed. But I love the muscles bottoms on Tim Tales the exact same amount. I don’t think there is a fantasy bottom the same way there is a fantasy top.

[marylander1940]

There is also that pesky practical issue of being cleaned out and ready to go. Douching is not particularly good for you. Certainly not douching one or more times per day. For the client, it's no big deal. It's a special occasion....

 

Someone who posted on this thread talked years about convincing tops to bottom for him after offering some extra money for the hazard and time consuming effort of douching. He simply said it was the right thing to do and it was common practice by others and him who only enjoy topping.

 

Gman.

[+ quoththeraven]

Total Bottom, Total Top, Total Vers, why do you guys care so much about these freaking labels?????

Because it matters to getting the experience people want.

 

I suspect chemistry in the moment has something to do with some of these supposedly deceptive "changes of mind."

 

It seems to me that it would only improve things to expand the definition of true top to anyone who loves topping and is good at it. That won't erase personal preferences for the straight-seeming macho type, but it might lead to less stereotyping and a future where preferences would be more varied.

[marylander1940]

It’s funny that there is general consensus for what a true top is. Macho, straight acting He-man top. I wonder if there’s a general consensus for a true bottom?

 

I've met masculine guys who bottom and effeminate guys who prefer to top...

 

 

I don’t have one. Do any of the tops here have one? I just like a guy that loves getting fucked. I find the twinks on Helix extremely sexy because they enjoy getting rammed. But I love the muscles bottoms on Tim Tales the exact same amount. I don’t think there is a fantasy bottom the same way there is a fantasy top.

 

They're usually fucked by another twink... they lack diversity in body type but that's what their public wants to see, barely legal guys fucking each other.

[LivingnLA]

But isn't the shame experienced by the object of the shaming? Would somebody who is bottom-shaming somebody be ashamed of the other guy being a bottom?

 

Yes. It's a form of policing cultural constructions like gender identity. It happens all the time.

 

https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/megasahd-why-americas-culture-of-shame-is-killing-us/

[+ José Soplanucas]

Because it matters to getting the experience people want.

 

No, the labels do not matter, at least you get horny at the label, which is Totally Acceptable. What matters is the actual behavior during the meeting.

In my Total Experience there is not such a thing as Total in the Total Universe.

I do not mean to say that the labels are totally meaningless because I would be totally contradicting myself. I just mean that even if we should not be totally indifferent to labels, they are totally relative. You mention one circumstance where the label is totally gone, but there are more.

[biggerbilly]

I've met masculine guys who bottom and effeminate guys who prefer to top...

 

 

I’m referring to the fantasy stereotype I see being mentioned everywhere. I know reality is different.

[marylander1940]

I’m referring to the fantasy stereotype I see being mentioned everywhere. I know reality is different.

 

I got it.

[MichBoyBlake]

There is also that pesky practical issue of being cleaned out and ready to go. Douching is not particularly good for you. Certainly not douching one or more times per day. For the client, it's no big deal. It's a special occasion. But it can be a lot of work for an escort to bottom regularly, and God forbid there be the least little mess, he would get shredded for being unprofessional!

 

Not to sound somehow patronizing but I like, very very rarely actually douche.

It's all about diet, exercise, regularity and knowing your body

 

I've only had a mishap once and that was with an ex and we were drunk and he didn't want to listen..... lol

[+ FreshFluff]

It's possible that, as you say, the "total tops" you want are raising their prices for you because of the stigma other clients attach to tops who bottom on the side. The other possibility is that the men you want are precisely those who dislike bottoming and require a premium to partake in it.

Edited April 10, 2018 by FreshFluff

[+ quoththeraven]

No, the labels do not matter, at least you get horny at the label, which is Totally Acceptable. What matters is the actual behavior during the meeting.

In my Total Experience there is not such a thing as Total in the Total Universe.

I do not mean to say that the labels are totally meaningless because I would be totally contradicting myself. I just mean that even if we should not be totally indifferent to labels, they are totally relative. You mention one circumstance where the label is totally gone, but there are more.

You operate in a more freeform, improvisational universe than others. I see this as a pretty hard-baked personality attribute that people don't have control over.