Overnight Rate

[mike carey]

34 minutes ago, ApexNomad said:

This is already a bad sign.

I saw it as a sign too. That he is new to this and honestly hadn't thought about it. I'm not sure every new provider starts with the idea of taking appointments of more than an hour or so, so the idea of an overnight may not be something that occurs to them, or if it does that it's something to think about when someone asks.

[+ ApexNomad]

2 hours ago, Danny Rossini said:

A bad sign ... of what? As I said, he's pretty new, his hourly rate is not exorbitant, and if he settles on an overnight rate that is too high for me, I'll simply decline. I've seen the discussions about clients and providers who haggle over an already-established price, and I would never do that. He's just trying to consider what's fair, what the market is like, and how other providers think about this. I'm curious, too.

You’ve already booked this guy for one- and two-hour appointments. You have a rapport, so it shouldn’t come as a shock to the provider that the next step would be to ask about longer time together. The fact that he laughed and didn’t provide rates is just odd to me. Any provider offering his time professionally should have an idea of what he charges, especially for a client he’s seen before.

Bottom line: Don’t go into business not knowing your worth. He’s essentially telling you, “I have to think about it, I’ll get back to you.” When? How long should I wait for you to decide how to run your business? There may not be a next time. I’ll find someone else. Know your worth. Know what you’re offering. Be prepared. It shows you’re serious.

[Archangel]

On 2/27/2025 at 10:33 PM, Danny Rossini said:

A bad sign ... of what? As I said, he's pretty new, his hourly rate is not exorbitant, and if he settles on an overnight rate that is too high for me, I'll simply decline. I've seen the discussions about clients and providers who haggle over an already-established price, and I would never do that. He's just trying to consider what's fair, what the market is like, and how other providers think about this. I'm curious, too.

I find the lackadaisical approach isn’t going to jive with my personality for an extended visit. That would be a bad sign for me too. Another bad sign is when you have to ask several times for the overnight rate before you get told what it is. Any number of reasons for that reticence runs through my mind, not the least among them a lack of professionalism.

[Archangel]

Reading this thread and seeing some comments from providers like @Simon Suracimakes me feel like I definitely have been taken advantage as a client. This is a good reason for me to stick with my regular.

[KeepItReal]

19 minutes ago, Archangel said:

Reading this thread and seeing some comments from providers like @Simon Suracimakes me feel like I definitely have been taken advantage as a client. This is a good reason for me to stick with my regular.

Measuring your experience against the experience of others is a sure fire way of inviting unhappiness. You do what works for you. Let others do the same. Easy peasy. 

[Archangel]

15 minutes ago, KeepItReal said:

Measuring your experience against the experience of others is a sure fire way of inviting unhappiness. You do what works for you. Let others do the same. Easy peasy. 

I do. My regular is very generous. What I’m saying is the overnight rates I have been quoted recently have all been on the upper end here or more. It is good to know the market rate. 

[pubic_assistance]

On 2/27/2025 at 10:42 PM, mike carey said:

I saw it as a sign too. That he is new to this and honestly hadn't thought about it. I'm not sure every new provider starts with the idea of taking appointments of more than an hour or so, so the idea of an overnight may not be something that occurs to them, or if it does that it's something to think about when someone asks.

I concur. I would add that for an inexperienced provider, the idea of asking someone for more than $1000 for their company seems daunting.

Approaching the issue from a logical standpoint (I am NOT experienced in overnight appointments). If a provider asked $300/hr and you booked 2 hours, in the evening, it seems unlikely they have any more appointments booked for the same night. So simple logic says that he's made $600, the offer of $1000+ to hang out a bit longer is well practical for the provider to jump on. I have had many evenings where I enjoyed the company of a masseur/escort early in the evening. Chatted a bit after the session, invited them to dinner and then back home for a other roll-in-the-hay. So....quoted a price of $400 for 90 minutes + tip for generous interraction on the erotic services...dinner is on me...but I'm not necessarily viewing that as on-the-clock if I am picking up the check. If another round of sex is forthcoming, then I'm doubling the original ask(+tip). So I'm up to $1000. Now I am married and also, not inclined to cuddle with a stranger...so overnight isn't something I want...but I figure if the fellow has already made $1000. Offering him another $500 to $600 should be viewed as easy passive income to simply cuddle and snooze. I woukd imagine that if morning sex was in the mix, then again I'm back to sexual services and back to a normal fee structure.

Using this logic it seems to me that $2000 for this kind of evening is fair..and certainly attractive to the provider when they compare it to the $400 to $500 they make with a regular hook up and then back home. I understand the comments about "valuing sleep"...but at $2000 that's five regular 90 minute sessions of $400...so he can afford to take a nap the next day if his sleep routine was disturbed.

 

Edited March 1 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[+ ApexNomad]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

I concur. I would add that for an inexperienced provider, the idea of asking someone for more than $1000 for their company seems daunting.

Approaching the issue from a logical standpoint (I am NOT experienced in overnight appointments). If a provider asked $300/hr and you booked 2 hours, in the evening, it seems unlikely they have any more appointments booked for the same night. So simple logic says that he's made $600, the offer of $1000+ to hang out a bit longer is well practical for the provider to jump on. I have had many evenings where I enjoyed the company of a masseur/escort early in the evening. Chatted a bit after the session, invited them to dinner and then back home for a other roll-in-the-hay. So....quoted a price of $400 for 90 minutes + tip for generous interraction on the erotic services...dinner is on me...but I'm not necessarily viewing that as on-the-clock if I am picking up the check. If another round of sex is forthcoming, then I'm doubling the original ask(+tip). So I'm up to $1000. Now I am married and also, not inclined to cuddle with a stranger...so overnight isn't something I want...but I figure if the fellow has already made $1000. Offering him another $500 to $600 should be viewed as easy passive income to simply cuddle and snooze. I woukd imagine that if morning sex was in the mix, then again I'm back to sexual services and back to a normal fee structure.

Using this logic it seems to me that $2000 for this kind of evening is fair..and certainly attractive to the provider when they compare it to the $400 to $500 they make with a regular hook up and then back home. I understand the comments about "valuing sleep"...but at $2000 that's five regular 90 minute sessions of $400...so he can afford to take a nap the next day if his sleep routine was disturbed.

 

From a business standpoint, if you’re offering your time professionally, you should at least have an idea of what your services are worth—whether it’s an hour or a whole night. The provider essentially let a regular client walk away without an answer—someone willing to book more time and spend more money. That’s not how you run a business.

It’s one thing to need a moment to consider pricing, but to leave it so open-ended that the client has to literally ask strangers online what’s appropriate? That’s just bad business. If you’re offering a service, you should know your rates or at least have a professional way to handle the conversation. Otherwise, you’re making it harder for clients to book you—and easier for them to move on to someone else.

[Archangel]

10 minutes ago, ApexNomad said:

That’s not how you run a business.

I don’t think some of these guys really are businessmen. They want to be treated seriously as businessmen, setting prices etc. but the obligations of business they shrug off. Like any business that doesn’t follow standard baseline business practices, they will fail or at minimum, be hugely unsuccessful. 

[ncc1701d]

Unfortunately not all escorts are savvy enough to know a client who is willing to hire for multiple hours that you have already met and have a mutual liking is not a common find these days of increasingly flakiness...I have a similar experience where asking an escort i've met twice and had a great time what is rate would be for a whole afternoon..and the answer was simply multiplying hourly rate without discount. So instead of earning more from me we now only meet for an hour or two. 

[Archangel]

12 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

the answer was simply multiplying hourly rate without discount. So instead of earning more from me we now only meet for an hour or two.

As @Simon Suraci laid out about the prep, I take that into consideration when determining if a rate is fair. I know my expectations for our time together and I know the escort, while working, gets a lot of perks in his time with me. That’s fine. I enjoy the pampering element of cooking and double things. But it’s a perk nonetheless. And if hr is with me multiple days, all that prep work Simon describes is eliminated. (And I also wouldn’t object to him taking a nap – I do! And I’m not saying “nap” 😂) 

All this to say, if I ask a provider what he would want for 3 nights and he replies “350/hr” or goes the extra half step to multiply it out (which, shit you not, I’ve had guys tell me $25k for three nights) I’m like, incompatible. 

[pubic_assistance]

1 hour ago, Archangel said:

I don’t think some of these guys really are businessmen.

Well....THAT is the point.

A young escort with no experience with overnights, is inexperienced and not yet a skilled businessman. He SHOULD be HELPED to understand HOW to price his time.

As was pointed out by @ncc1701d a lack of experience can naturally lead to merely multiplying the base rate, and then having that offer rejected.

I've met multiple young men over the last few years, who are new to the business or interested in making more by offering escort services on top of their massage business offerings. I am always very happy to help guide them through a logical business model and appropriate pricing. I am not interested in taking advantage of their naïveté so I can get off cheaply. If I like a young practitioner, I am more inclined to help them understand the full value of their services.  I am a businessman myself and I can tell you that pricing is not some sort of straightforward mathematical formula, but takes instinct and experience.

[Occasional]

42 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

A young escort with no experience with overnights, is inexperienced and not yet a skilled businessman. He SHOULD be HELPED to understand HOW to price his time.

... and also helped to decide the scope and range of his business offering.  And the interaction between that scope, and [his] price.

Some escorts charge a premium for overnights because they don't particularly want to do them.  But, for the right price, they will do them - and, being professionals, will then deliver their usual quality service.  Some escorts just don't do overnights at all - and that is their prerogative.

[Archangel]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

He SHOULD be HELPED to understand HOW to price his time.

He’ll figure it out. Sink or swim. It’s not my/our responsibility to help him figure that out. Furthermore, from my experience, trying to discuss insights as a client with a provider always ends up with the provider either ignoring me or saying I can look elsewhere “for inferior service.” Some of you may want to help, but not me. I will help my repeat guys in other ways, but not in how to determine cost. And I’m definitely not investing my time into helping a guy I haven’t met yet and who’s new to all this to understand his approach to pricing is wrong. Again, he’ll figure it out. Sink or swim.

[+ ApexNomad]

2 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

Well....THAT is the point.

A young escort with no experience with overnights, is inexperienced and not yet a skilled businessman. He SHOULD be HELPED to understand HOW to price his time.

As was pointed out by @ncc1701d a lack of experience can naturally lead to merely multiplying the base rate, and then having that offer rejected.

I've met multiple young men over the last few years, who are new to the business or interested in making more by offering escort services on top of their massage business offerings. I am always very happy to help guide them through a logical business model and appropriate pricing. I am not interested in taking advantage of their naïveté so I can get off cheaply. If I like a young practitioner, I am more inclined to help them understand the full value of their services.  I am a businessman myself and I can tell you that pricing is not some sort of straightforward mathematical formula, but takes instinct and experience.

Maybe that’s the difference. I’m not hiring men so young or inexperienced that the concept of an overnight and what to charge is so foreign to them. Even if a provider is unsure, the simplest and most professional approach would have been to throw out a number and work with the client right there. This wasn’t a one-time inquiry from a stranger—it was a regular client expressing interest in spending more time and more money. That alone should have signaled to the provider that this was an opportunity to build on an existing relationship, not a situation to leave open-ended.

Clients aren’t going to wait indefinitely while a provider figures out their business model. A confident, prepared professional—regardless of experience—knows how to have that conversation in the moment. Hesitation or deflection sends a message, and in this case, it told the client that the provider wasn’t ready to handle a straightforward request. That says a lot.

[pubic_assistance]

20 hours ago, Archangel said:

It’s not my/our responsibility to help him figure that out.

 

19 hours ago, ApexNomad said:

Clients aren’t going to wait indefinitely while a provider figures out their business model.

Wow.

So gross to treat human beings with such disdain.

 

[+ ApexNomad]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

 

Wow.

So gross to treat human beings with such disdain.

 

This isn’t about treating anyone with disdain—it’s about the basic expectation that if you’re offering a professional service, you should be prepared to discuss your rates. That’s not unreasonable, especially with a regular client.

But if you want to talk about disdain, perhaps we should take a moment to audit your own responses—particularly how you refer to out-of-shape gay men. 

[pubic_assistance]

12 minutes ago, ApexNomad said:

It’s about the basic expectation that if you’re offering a professional service, you should be prepared to discuss your rates. That’s not unreasonable,

The conversation is about young men who ARE prepared to discuss their rates...BUT some clients have asked about a DIFFERENT level of service that they never provided before and therefore haven't given much thought.

A decent human response from a more mature adult would be to show some empathy and help guide them with some advice/ experience and concern for their well being.

[+ ApexNomad]

8 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

The conversation is about young men who ARE prepared to discuss their rates...BUT some clients have asked about a DIFFERENT level of service that they never provided before and therefore haven't given much thought.

A decent human response from a more mature adult would be to show some empathy and help guide them with some advice/ experience and concern for their well being.

So as mature, reasonable adults, have the discussion together. Don’t laugh at the client and let him walk—he’s a regular. Talk it out like professionals in real time. I’m sure they can come to a mutually agreeable resolution.

[pubic_assistance]

Is he "laughing at the client" 🤔 ?or is he actually embarrassed that he doesn't have an answer to the proposal.

You're putting too much responsibility for the solution on the young inexperienced person.

 

[+ ApexNomad]

15 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Is he "laughing at the client" 🤔 ?or is he actually embarrassed that he doesn't have an answer to the proposal.

You're putting too much responsibility for the solution on the young inexperienced person.

 

Too much responsibility on the provider to expect them to know their rates for their own business? This is fundamental to any professional service—knowing your worth and being able to discuss it confidently with clients. And not just a new client—a regular client! It doesn’t get any more basic than that.

[pubic_assistance]

11 minutes ago, ApexNomad said:

Too much responsibility on the provider to expect them to know their rates for their own business?

You're missing the point of the discussion.

We are talking about a YOUNG provider who KNOWS his rates for an hour..But is struggling to answer an inquiry to a DIFFERENT KIND OF MEET UP.

It's pretty clear that no one is paying the same hourly rate for an overnight.

Even when you follow this discussion thread, you find a lot of different perspectives. So given that fact, I don't see WHY anyone should be expected to have any answer prepared for something they have never been asked before. It's not a simple answer when you have no experience.

It's like asking someone who runs a restaurant, how much to cater a wedding when they've never done that before. YOUR attitude is: "you should have an answer ready becasue you're already in the food service industry". But i guarantee they wouldn't when they've never done it before and don't know anything about how the pricing works with others.

The respectful adult response is to guide the young provider through your experience (and maybe your expectation), NOT just write them off as a poor businessman, simply because they answered with a nervous laugh.

Edited March 2 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[+ ApexNomad]

18 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

You're missing the point of the discussion.

We are talking about a YOUNG provider who KNOWS his rates for an hour..But is struggling to answer an inquiry to a DIFFERENT KIND OF MEET UP.

It's pretty clear that no one is paying the same hourly rate for an overnight.

Even when you follow this discussion thread, you find a lot of different perspectives. So given that fact, I don't see WHY anyone should be expected to have any answer prepared for something they have never been asked before. It's not a simple answer when you have no experience.

It's like asking someone who runs a restaurant, how much to cater a wedding when they've never done that before. YOUR attitude is: "you should have an answer ready becasue you're already in the food service industry". But i guarantee they wouldn't when they've never done it before and don't know anything about how the pricing works with others.

The respectful adult response is to guide the young provider through your experience (and maybe your expectation), NOT just write them off as a poor businessman, simply because they answered with a nervous laugh.

If we’re going to use your analogy, am I expected to guide the inexperienced restaurant on how much to charge for catering my wedding? Based on what—my status as a regular customer? 

This is about a professional service, where there’s an existing relationship between provider and client. While it’s understandable if a provider is uncertain about rates for a new service, the expectation should still be that they can engage in a straightforward, professional conversation about pricing. Especially when it’s a regular client—my expectation is that pricing should be discussed openly instead of letting the client walk. 

[MscleLovr]

Both @ApexNomad and @pubic_assistance have made good points in this thread.
 

As two intelligent and reasonable people, I feel you have to agree to disagree on the above issue.

One point that hasn’t been made is regarding clients. Some are inexperienced, some may be regular hourly customers thinking of longer dates, some may need to budget for the expense. And there are some like me. I’m happy to have a reasonable talk with a younger man who has, in my opinion, over-inflated expectations.
 

I know, however, that many people dislike talking about money and charges and get embarrassed. I even disconcerted my fancy (and very expensive) lawyers recently when I asked about the hours I was being billed at partner level and the rates I was being charged for a new trainee to work on my account.

[Archangel]

I like to get the money talk out of the way with guys. I say something along the lines, “Money talk is vulgar, but it’s necessary. Let’s get it out of the way and move on.” It acknowledges the elephant in the room and makes it at least dealable.

On the flip side, you have guys, young and old alike, who immediately want to discuss money and that sends the sometimes not-so-subliminal message this isn’t about providing a service for them but about cashing in. I don’t hire those guys either. I’m not an ATM.