Deposits and when are they ok to ask for it?

[+ nycman]

11 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Case closed

[Rudynate]

16 minutes ago, Vin_Marco said:

The fella that I'm taking a photo with is a long time friend... he's a outrigger canoe paddling champion  🏆 

They really make me swoon.  One of my gym buddies is a Samoan daddy covered with Samoan tattoos  - the genuine article. 

[Marc in Calif]

12 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

I’m trying to fix that by year end, and that’s already in the making.

If you took all the hours you spend posting and responding on these forums and applied them to growing and maintaining a successful business, well --- you wouldn't be such a complainer, would you?

Why not try it for a month? 💡

[Jarrod_Uncut]

4 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

As Thomas Paine famously said, "To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead" 

 

@Jarrod_Uncut I, like Doc, sat next to you at dinner at the annual forum gathering dinner and also thought you were lovely and friendly. I've said it before, you have loads of energy, energy I believe is being misused,  you have the energy to argue with loads and loads of people who've offered sincere and sound advice yet you seem to retort with why everyone is wrong and you are correct. Unlike you, I refuse to expend anymore energy where it's being wasted. You are also wrongly assuming that much of my "success " or @Jamie21 "success" is only because of where we live.... I'm not even going to call it success instead I'm going to call it our ability to be probably be  as busy as we want to be. I have had" colleagues" who lived and live in "Anytown USA" who are INCREDIBLY successful... it's not "survival of the fittest" that only survive, it's the ones most wiling to adapt and who have the ability to change ... these people have modified travel schedules that make living where they live immaterial to where they call home and actually prefer home to be as far as possible from "the biz" i suspect thats what makes home really "home" for them. 
I've only been back on the forum for 4 months and I've only read posts where you do not much else but complain, complain, and complain ( I doubt many here will disagree with me on that ) and after all you've said, even what could be perceived as an insult to me, believe it or not Jarrod, I still want to see you win, succeed and be happy. 
 

* citing something obscure from 1937 isn't a very convincing argument. I can compromise a very long list of things that were going on in 1937 that were and are mother-loads of bad ideas. By the way, do want to swap out the ratio of how often women hire vs how often men hire too... that's also a key component of the ad you cited..... 

I appreciate you recognizing my demeanor and persona. And, the newspaper clip was more for humor and reference. I wasn’t trying to use that as an answer to the topic of this thread.

I feel though this conversation has gone beyond deposits, and has now turned into something bigger than what it should be. Being that this isn’t a thread I made, I don’t feel I should be the target of what I talk about on the forum. It doesn’t have to go to that level I’m just specifically talking about deposits, and simply giving my opinion about why I as a provider ask for them. However, all I’ve read you say so far is: “I don’t have a problem without them, I don’t need them, I don’t feel it’s the right thing to do, etc.” And fair enough that’s your personal decision.  

The part that I feel you’re being a bit insensitive, is when it’s then implied that because YOU don’t have to do it, then I should also not do the same: and then comes along  @purplekow trying to imply and gaslight that somehow I don’t know what I’m doing, despite it being something I KNOW works better for me. That’s not necessary. No one has to tell me, “you’re not busy because you charge deposits”. That’s basically what I’m hearing. That’s not true. There’s more variables behind that than just a deposit. And I’ve posted elsewhere from other people saying the same thing about their level of business. Why is it so difficult for people to accept what others are saying, instead of making it a deal about a few people being the exception? 
 

My question to you Vin specifically: because I know you’ve said it somewhere and I quote: “I don’t stay in hotels much these days” And from what it sounds like (correct me if I’m wrong), you are doing a lot of Outcalls, right? So…how would you feel if instead, you had to host clients in hotels…in addition to traveling to San Diego, Los Angeles, Palm Springs etc.

How would you feel if you had to pay out of pocket upfront for that expense, with the possibility a client may cancel? Because in my case, in my area and many I travel to: clients tend to usually need me to host. Especially in Kansas City, idk if you ever been out this way: 99% of clients in this area can’t host. The only ones who can host, are usually staying in a hotel. So I’m always in a position to drive up, book a room, etc.

There is one client on this forum who booked me here and did something very kind: he booked the hotel AND prepaid me my session before we met. I couldn’t have asked for a better scenario, but I don’t even expect that usually. I usually just get deposit, measly $50/$100…not a million dollars, and then book the room and get the rest in person. Easy/Peasy.

I don’t feel it’s nothing to be arguing with me about, or for others to come and make snide comments and try to paint me as being some kind of con artist or person who isn’t busy because he chooses to use a little common sense. 
 

I know this is WAAAAAYYYY more explaining and defending than what’s required or even needed, and I’m going to wrap it up soon because the holiday is in a couple days: But I’m just willing to stand by and make sense to people because…nobody should have a 1 size answer fits all when it comes to deposits. People have to be willing to respect an individual providers preference…at least here on the forum because, people read things here. 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Rudynate said:

They really make me swoon.  One of my gym buddies is a Samoan daddy covered with Samoan tattoos  - the genuine article. 

It would be a pity if he didn't speak Sāmoan. Ask him if he does ( I know we're kind of getting off topic but at least it's on a positive note 😂 )

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

My question to you Vin specifically: because I know you’ve said it somewhere and I quote: “I don’t stay in hotels much these days” And from what it sounds like (correct me if I’m wrong), you are doing a lot of Outcalls, right? So…how would you feel if instead, you had to host clients in hotels…in addition to traveling to San Diego, Los Angeles, Palm Springs etc.

Been there, done that and always with a smile on my face. I still stay in hotels in certain cities. Between putting FLAKES in a box, using my intuition, NOT requiring deposits I've NEVER had any issues filling my schedule in or out of hotels. My current operation is all by design, I've created the business model I utilize....most of all,  I LISTENED to people who had sound advice to offer.... I didn't land here overnight, I paid my dues in that I saw people I had to versus now.... seeing only people that I truly and genuinely enjoy being with.... and figured it out ( what works for me ) relatively early on and what keeps me happy and the people I see happy. I am going to say it to you for the last time..... I hope you find happiness, a way to make what you do fun, fulfilling, and financially rewarding. ✌🏽 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

42 minutes ago, Vin_Marco said:

Been there, done that and always with a smile on my face. I still stay in hotels in certain cities. Between putting FLAKES in a box, using my intuition, NOT requiring deposits I've NEVER had any issues filling my schedule in or out of hotels. My current operation is all by design, I've created the business model I utilize....most of all,  I LISTENED to people who had sound advice to offer.... I didn't land here overnight, I paid my dues in that I saw people I had to versus now.... seeing only people that I truly and genuinely enjoy being with.... and figured it out ( what works for me ) relatively early on and what keeps me happy and the people I see happy. I am going to say it to you for the last time..... I hope you find happiness, a way to make what you do fun, fulfilling, and financially rewarding. ✌🏽 

Thanks much, I’m glad it’s working for you. Pass it along. And I’ll continue to stay true to what I feel is  best and sensible for me as well…even if it doesn’t align with what others may believe or have experienced. Because at the end of the day, I know what I’ve experienced and how I’ve been able to create better ones with less regret and stress, no matter how much I may need the business.

I like the putting flakes in a box 📦 emphasis 😆 

 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

It's a brilliant idea and one I welcome! The longer I buzz around the more I realize one is needed for both sides lol   
What the phuck happened to social graces??? 😜

I can’t wait for this!

[Guest]

My takeaway: you can ask for a deposit, or not. I can only add that I’ve just obtained “Explorer” level on this platform and am very excited.

[Jamie21]

17 minutes ago, Km411 said:

My takeaway: you can ask for a deposit, or not. I can only add that I’ve just obtained “Explorer” level on this platform and am very excited.

So many milestones 🙂 You’ve commented on a ‘Deposits’ thread (usually one regrets that decision…but I’ll let you decide that) and you have an ‘Explorer’ badge! Congratulations. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Jamie21 said:

So many milestones 🙂 You’ve commented on a ‘Deposits’ thread (usually one regrets that decision…but I’ll let you decide that) and you have an ‘Explorer’ badge! Congratulations. 

It can be like flirting with the Event Horizon ( the topic of deposits ) 😂

[Jarrod_Uncut]

On 10/17/2023 at 2:12 AM, Phil Wagner said:

So I’ve been running into a lot of people clients trying to book me but they live a state or two away. I ask them for a simple donation of $50 to insure that the booking is legit and not a waste of time and fake. I’ve gotten replies like, “I don’t send deposits anymore because I’ve been burnt too many times by previous guys who never showed up and just took my money” or “ I don’t feel comfortable sending money to someone I haven’t met yet.” I get it, but why should I be punished for other people’s miscues and their issues with other people that doesn’t involve me? If they were in my position they would ask the same thing. I mean who would drive states away without some kind of instance policy to make the appointment secure. Not to mention the travel costs. Am I doing something wrong by asking a client to put up $50 to make it legit? Can someone help me understand this….

So far, have you gotten a chance to decide which decision you’d ultimately like to go with? 
 

By the way, this line you made:

“I don’t send deposits anymore because I’ve been burnt too many times by previous guys who never showed up and just took my money” or “ I don’t feel comfortable sending money to someone I haven’t met yet.”

When I was fresh out of high school in Florida, and got tired of working hectic restaurants and “retail” jobs that would try to fit an entire semi truck worth of items into 1 shelf (and I worked in “linens” department with all the fragile items): I switched to an “office” job that consisted of cold calling property owners who WERE NOT actually looking to sell their vacation properties, but our job was to convince them that they COULD sell it.

So for between $299 and $1299 DOWN/UPFRONT, we would sit and 8 hours a day call people all around the country. And similar to this thread, it was like pulling teeth trying to get people to pay upfront. But this was real money, with their credit card we were asking. However, they were assured they would get a big return. Needless to say, it was a big scam (I was young and didn’t realize it at the time). And, many of the customers would say, “I’ve been burnt before, somebody else said they would sell it and yadda yadda, etc etc.”

I finally got out of that industry after like a year or 2. It was too much. The constant trying to get a sale from someone, and upfront money was crazy. So I know…how hard it is. Eventually I switched to other type of customer service jobs, and then did banking and real estate assistance (yawn, I was so bored I struggled to show up to work…seeing all the executives arrive in their BMWs and Mercedes and me taking the bus which I eventually “upgraded” to a Toyota Camry).

Fast forward now, I have 3 vehicles…and once I switched to escorting I didn’t look back. But it’s ironic now that I’m seeing this same level of resistance with deposits among the community today. Granted at the time, and over the times since I started in 2008…I used to didn’t require deposits for a long time. Again, it was only recently in the last couple years (specifically during and after COVID) that I had decided enough was enough of the risks and pro-Bono travel and hotel bookings. 
 

Even if I had 100 great experiences, it only takes 1 flake to turn your whole day upside down. And without a deposit: that could mean anything from sleeping in the car, to sleeping in an empty hotel room for two days before you get your first client (which happened to me last weekend, even WITH deposits…1 client sent a deposit but I couldn’t make it because I ran out of gas trying to get to my hotel without getting out in the wicked rain (but I rescheduled him 3 days later and he just wrote my latest review on RM), and then another client who sent $100 but HE couldn’t make it). 
 

A deposit essentially makes everything alright, and much more comfortable for me. I never said this story before either but: two years ago just as Covid was starting: I was in the hospital for 5 days. Had an ailment (wasn’t Covid). Couldn’t take a client if I wanted to until I got better. Guess what? I was accepting deposits from my hospital bed, and once I got out: I was eventually able to meet with each client. One was in Naples Florida, the other in Orlando. Then I went to Sarasota. Biggest rebound in my escorting history. All 3 clients sent deposits, so I was able to gas up, book hotels, and everything else.
 

 

above is the list of states I’ve visited (in blue). I almost want to say New York because I have been in the Bronx region briefly on the way to Boston…but it doesn’t count. I’m looking to change that very soon, I have a trip coming up to New York.

So, my experience is very extensive. This is why, people have to understand when you see a lot of things and experience a lot of things: it changes how you do things in your life. Not everybody can please the popular opinion, the masses, or conform to what the next escort and the next escort is doing. 
 

Hopefully you can choose the way that works best for you…

Edited November 22, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[SouthOfTheBorder]

4 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

My question to you Vin specifically: because I know you’ve said it somewhere and I quote: “I don’t stay in hotels much these days” And from what it sounds like (correct me if I’m wrong), you are doing a lot of Outcalls, right? So…how would you feel if instead, you had to host clients in hotels…in addition to traveling to San Diego, Los Angeles, Palm Springs etc.

I have no idea what this means.  
I see alot of providers in various places.  Most providers I see are either in my home (known people), their home, or a hotel I happen to be in.  Very very few hotel meetings where the provider has the room - almost none.  There has never been a conversation about the need for a hotel room between a provider and me.  If I do meet a provider in their hotel room, there should be no guilt trip on me because a provider has chosen to get a hotel room in whatever city for whatever reason.  if they have a hotel room, then my assumption is they’ve done an analysis to make sure it pays off.  But, the room & cost is not my problem or concern - I’m booking an hour or two only.

The discussions about hotel room goes to the business model the provider has chosen & where they actually live.  If attempting to “tour” for whatever reason and visit multiple cities in short periods of time, that has its own set of issues baked in. Seems a risky business model unless the provider has figured out how to screen & book effectively in short periods of time.

just my opinion - a big travel commitment on either end isn’t worth it given the effort required and potential to be disappointed.  I’m always going make the best choice among a set of options that just doesn’t require that much work. I want to reduce my investment of time & travel in every situation where the outcome is unknown. That equation may change with known providers where the outcome is more certain. 

I feel like the entire discussion is unnecessarily complicated.  If i was a provider, I’d choose to locate in an area target rich with potential clients to use my service. These are always going to be big metropolitan areas with people making more money, more disposable income & more gay men/bi men and tourists/executives.  Not complicated. Hint - they’re not in Sioux Falls SD or similar 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I feel like the entire discussion is unnecessarily complicated.  I

💯 spot on! It's just part of the cost of doing business... in that thread  I'm gonna start, about a code of ethics among us and  unwritten rules it will include  hotels and hosting 😂 At the end of your hotel stay ( a provider ) the cost of the ensconcing your self should be a drop in the bucket compared to the profit. If the profit margins aren't big enough 🤔 maybe the provider needs to stick to local outcalls, be able to host in their home or to give the unvarnished truth, find a different method of putting food on his table. 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

 If I do meet a provider in their hotel room, there should be no guilt trip on me because a provider has chosen to get a hotel room in whatever city for whatever reason.  if they have a hotel room, then my assumption is they’ve done an analysis to make sure it pays off.  But, the room & cost is not my problem or concern - I’m booking an hour or two only.

Absolutely 💯 agree!  

[+ BobPS]

Time for all of us to move on!

[Marc in Calif]

11 minutes ago, BobPS said:

Time for all of us to move on!

When one particular poster can never move on? Fat chance! 😒

[Jarrod_Uncut]

1 hour ago, Marc in Calif said:

When one particular poster can never move on? Fat chance! 😒

 

Meanwhile the conversation is continuing so…don’t pin that on 1 poster, whoever you may be referring to.
 

2 hours ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I’d choose to locate in an area target rich with potential clients to use my service. These are always going to be big metropolitan areas with people making more money, more disposable income & more gay men/bi men and tourists/executives.  Not complicated. Hint - they’re not in Sioux Falls SD or similar 

 

 

Well, those big metro areas with higher income also means: higher cost of living, more competition and higher rates. I’ve been to all the big cities. Everything from Seattle to Miami, San Diego to Boston. They are great, they’re fun and I made good coin in all of them: but when it comes to making a move there: all of those factors are going to play a part. 
 

The bigger cities aren’t always the better deal, I’ve said it before. Some are great to travel to. I love traveling to San Francisco, but I don’t love paying $1,500 a month for a (wait for it) box 📦 lol. It takes money to live in those cities. I’ve often contemplated making a move to certain cities during my travels. But living there versus visiting are very different. It takes money to jump on a place, then you have to figure out how to move your life there. Years ago, I moved to San Antonio for only $199. It was a move in special. I jumped on it immediately, but those bigger cities want more like: $1,999 upfront. And it’s a box in a sketchy area of town, limited parking and not much amenities. 
 

No guarantee that business will be steady in those expensive markets either. I’ve been in DC and San Francisco and been busy one day, dead the next. This is even before I started deposits. I was in San Francisco when Trump got elected and people were running up the steep avenues with 🪧 signs. I had only 1 client the 4 days I was there. Wasn’t asking for deposits either. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

2 hours ago, Vin_Marco said:

💯 spot on! It's just part of the cost of doing business... in that thread  I'm gonna start, about a code of ethics among us and  unwritten rules it will include  hotels and hosting 😂 At the end of your hotel stay ( a provider ) the cost of the ensconcing your self should be a drop in the bucket compared to the profit. If the profit margins aren't big enough 🤔 maybe the provider needs to stick to local outcalls, be able to host in their home or to give the unvarnished truth, find a different method of putting food on his table. 

Well: part of “privilege” is understanding and accepting that, there is a chance that some clients may be more open to inviting a certain type of provider into their home…And less inclined to invite another type of provider, even if that client can host.

Now…I’m not specifically speaking for me because, I’ve gone to all kinds of upscale outcalls. I also know though that, there’s people out there I may never meet at their place because they feel a certain way towards certain types. This CAN vary City to city. Even though you referenced guys who apparently do well in any bum fuck town, that’s still not enough to confirm that me or someone else specifically can do well in a specific area. You only gave anecdotal information. 
 

And I’ve said before in a different topic: I’m getting away from the numbers game model of incalls. I’m not about to be: 4 clients x $300 = $1,200. Because experience has taught that two of those clients likely won’t show. Maybe 1 will…then I have to figure out another way to fill that $900, hopefully before the checkout day of the hotel I’m at. I rather just start asking for more time/funds when I host. That’s why I now started doing 75/90 minutes minimum for incalls. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[pubic_assistance]

2 hours ago, BobPS said:

Time for all of us to move on!

Fat chance of that ever happening ! When someone brings up the subject of deposits...it's always a constant stream of chatter from the world's biggest fan of deposits. It never moves on and neither side of this discussion learns anything from the other .

 

[Marc in Calif]

41 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Meanwhile the conversation is continuing so…don’t pin that on 1 poster, whoever you may be referring to.

If you took all the hours you spend posting and responding with thousands of words a day, and you applied them to growing and maintaining a successful business, well --- you wouldn't be such a complainer, would you?

Why not try it for a month? 💡

[pubic_assistance]

6 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

Why not try it for a month? 💡

Can't even get two minutes of focus.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Fat chance of that ever happening ! When someone brings up the subject of deposits...it's always a constant stream of chatter from the world's biggest fan of deposits. It never moves on and neither side of this discussion learns anything from the other .

 

More like a cacophony...... let's "deposit" a fork in this thread and call it done! 

[MikeBiDude]

[+ nycman]

6 hours ago, Marc in Calif said:

When one particular poster can never move on? Fat chance! 😒