Private providers

[secgoo]

So there's been a post recently about a providers profile that didn't have a face picture in it.

Ok, I understand that that this industry carries a lot of stigmatisation and what's put on the internet is "forever" but there's a practical side of these arrangements that what's being advertised (and subsequently traded) is largely based on physical appearance.

Questions to Providers (thank you for your service by the way 😘) :- Do you include a face pic in your adverts? Why (either yes or no)?

Questions to clients:- what's your typical reaction to adverts without face pictures?

[big-n-tall]

Client here...

I'm not necessarily turned off by no-face ads. If the body and ad copy intrigue me... I delve further. I have hired a few guys who never used face pics. Some do now and some still don't.

I do my due diligence and see if anyone on this forum (past or present) can verify if the person is good or is actually the guy portrayed in the ad. However, there are some guys where there is no info on them here and I take a chance. I have yet to have a bad experience with someone who did not use a face pic in their ad. The guy I see the most when we met, he didin't have a face pic in his ad. Although I did find out later he had a website where he did show his face, The latest one being Viktor York. He eventually shared a face pic with me but that wasn't until hours before our meetup.

I do avoid faceless ads if it's clear that they are borrowing pictures or if the body shots don't match up picture to picture. I'm not talking someone going through muscle growth development where you can tell it's the same body. I'm talking about when it's clearly different bodies from different people.

Edited September 19, 2023 by big-n-tall

[builder boy]

It’s kind of nice to have the face for at least extended trips.   

[Marc in Calif]

5 minutes ago, builder boy said:

It’s kind of nice to have the face for at least extended trips.   

You can always get a face pic after first contacting the provider.

[+ The Big Guy]

While I understand the desire for privacy an ad without a face pic would not get additional consideration from me.  

[builder boy]

12 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

You can always get a face pic after first contacting the provider.

Agreed 

[JamesB]

I usually skip adds with no face unless something really gets my attention. If that is the case I will as for a face pic in my first contact. If they send it, it is fine with me. If they seen reluctant to send one, it is bye bye from me.

[ICTJOCK]

I have a face picture on this site and certainly have had one on my RM profile.   Now if someone doesn't that's their prerogative.    He might not get very many inquiries,  but certainly their right to do so.

[+ DrownedBoy]

I need to see if the client has facial hair. So a headless shot is unlikely to get my interest. 

I might send them an RM text asking for a face pic, but if they need a text, sorry, there's a couple hundred other guys who want my money. 

If you're that fearful of being identified,  neither a client nor provider be.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

I’ve seen one guy without a face pic bc he was so well regarded on here. And he’s become one my favorite regulars. 

This was for massage. Not sure I’d do it for an escort session.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by KensingtonHomo
Clarification

[Jamie21]

Most of my pics are body pics, there’s one or two that show my face although not directly. If a client contacts me and asks for a face pic then I’m fine to send one. 

I prefer to be a little discreet plus the talk of authorities using facial recognition software to identify those doing sex work is a concern. I don’t want to be stopped at the border of a place I’m visiting because some country doesn’t like my job. 
 

[DWnyc]

21 hours ago, DrownedBoy said:

I need to see if the client has facial hair. So a headless shot is unlikely to get my interest. 

I might send them an RM text asking for a face pic, but if they need a text, sorry, there's a couple hundred other guys who want my money. 

If you're that fearful of being identified,  neither a client nor provider be.

I would caveat saying on this issue the client and provider risk profiles are different and that guidance is really for providers. If anything clients often seek out providers because they want this aspect of their lives discreet.

Without even contacting a provider, if they list a phone number or have a picture I can likely figure out who there are in real life if I put my mind to it using publicly available tools. And vice versa for a provider with my details.

I don’t need to be contacted proactively. They do. 

 

 

[BuffaloKyle]

I need a face pic to know if I'll be attracted to someone especially since I'm paying. I remember there was a latino guy with a sexy muscular smooth body that looked amazing. Checked all my boxes. Once I requested a face pic though he was not at all what I pictured and just not my type then at all.

[Decatur Guy]

I've actually hired a few times without ever seeing a face. It's never gone badly. I've even wore a blindfold (my idea) a couple of times. Once, that didn't turn out to be a good idea. The other time, it was hot.

[Simon Suraci]

On 9/19/2023 at 4:37 PM, Jamie21 said:

I prefer to be a little discreet plus the talk of authorities using facial recognition software to identify those doing sex work is a concern. I don’t want to be stopped at the border of a place I’m visiting because some country doesn’t like my job. 

^This is a lot of the reason providers do not show face pics, particularly those who travel frequently and/or are more well known porn actors and models. Not just for general privacy concerns, but also to avoid customs and border control enforcement. I'm posting a link below to CBP protocol for searches of electronic devices. The latest one I'm aware of is 2018. If there is a newer one, please post it.

If you are American and post face pics on your ads and want to work in another country - or even take a vacation abroad - you are WAY more likely to be stopped and questioned upon your return, phone and other devices searched, and you will be interrogated and detained for many hours. Vast, constantly updated facial recognition databases gives them reason to stop you. If they find anything incriminating on your devices, they report you to state and local law enforcement.

If you are not an American citizen, US customs will put a big scarlet letter on your record and deport you, banning entry for a decade or more.

It wasn't a big deal 5-10 years ago when detainee search numbers were very low, but now it's more common with facial recognition automating the process. Every year the detainee numbers continue to rise in the name of "national security", when their premise for doing this is purely moral. Enforcing laws to do with sex work is outside the jurisdiction of Customs and Border Protection; however they can say ANYTHING is for "national security" and don't even need a warrant to detain you, search your devices, and interrogate you. A blip on facial recognition software for that one pic on that one ad a provider posted two years ago but then deleted a week later is enough for them to go on.

There are workarounds, but it's extremely inconvenient, not to mention costly to be detained upon re-entry to the US.

If you're an American citizen, the authorities have to let you back in, but only after they detain, search you and interrogate you. You are not obligated to answer any questions but they can and will coerce you and bully you as best they can, make you as uncomfortable as possible, plus confiscate and search your devices. Heaven help you if you have low blood sugar issues or anything else that could jeopardize your health while under interrogation.

Anything on your devices is fair game. Anything on a cloud service or requiring internet to access from that device is technically out of bounds unless they find incriminating stuff actually on the device first. They have to return your devices, but not for many days or even weeks later, and they COPY your device digitally and maintain records of it for years unless you have nothing on it to incriminate you. If you're lucky, they don't find anything and give the device back when they release you.

If you're a SW not in the know, you almost certainly have at least one incriminating item on your phone. A text, an ad link, a transaction, anything. Now that you're on a watchlist, you will be even more likely to be detained again in the future, and possibly arrested in your home jurisdiction, or at least closely watched now that you're in a local database. Meanwhile you miss connecting flights, lose work, unintentionally ghost your clients who are expecting you to show up to your previously arranged appointments...it's a f*ing NIGHTMARE.

If you never travel to the US or other countries with lame sex work laws, you're fine. For many of us, that is not a practical way to live. Every provider is taking a huge risk posting face pics all over the internet, especially in the more explicit places like RentMen. And yes, they last FOREVER, long after you take down your ads or years after you exit the biz. This is one of the many reasons we charge what we do for SW. There's an embedded risk to showing our faces that the client never has to even think about but we have to deal with all the consequences if and when the sh*t hits the fan.

The below protocols are intended to protect us and limit the broad power given to CBP that anywhere else in the US would be considered unconstitutional, but I hear many stories of CBP not respecting these protocols. Nobody is enforcing their own policies. CBP has virtually no accountability. You could sue, at great cost, and with great difficulty. That's about it.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2018-Jan/CBP-Directive-3340-049A-Border-Search-of-Electronic-Media-Compliant.pdf

[Guest]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:18 AM, ICTJOCK said:

I have a face picture on this site and certainly have had one on my RM profile.   Now if someone doesn't that's their prerogative.    He might not get very many inquiries,  but certainly their right to do so.

Everyone has the right to be stupid. I feel a song coming on.

https://youtu.be/SMhwddNQSWQ

I've never inquired further if there's no face (or body) photo. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Unicorn

[soloyo215]

Client here: It think that in my case it's just coincidence that the one and only provider without face pic that I hired wasn't the best experience, so I won't judge based on that one time. I normally prefer seeing a face, but I imagine that some providers might want to keep their identity as private as possible. Also, to me it's not just the face/no-face thing; it's a combination of the pictures and the rest of the profile. I'm actually more suspicious when I see only one picture in the profile, or a low-quality one. I'd consider a no-face profile with the right set of pictures and information.

[Guest]

15 hours ago, soloyo215 said:

...the one and only provider without face pic that I hired wasn't the best experience... I'd consider a no-face profile with the right set of pictures and information.

I'm curious as to WHY you'd consider investigating a no-face profile? Do you live in a market with few escorts? In most cities, if I can't see the face (or body), I just move on to the next profile. I'm struggling to imagine a reason to investigate such profiles further. Even if you don't care about what the man's face looks like, as you discovered, the absence of the face photo can represent a serious red flag regarding commitment to this line of work. In addition, I'd be worried about fake photos in such a profile. If he's so concerned about privacy, well, he's in the wrong business.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Unicorn

[Marc in Calif]

1 hour ago, Unicorn said:

I'm curious as to WHY you'd consider investigating a no-face profile? Do you live in a market with few escorts? In most cities, if I can't see the face (or body), I just move on to the next profile. I'm struggling to imagine a reason to investigate such profiles further. 

Reason #1: The provider's body and stats match all the client's preferences and fetishes.
Reason #2: The description and "Into" list are everything the client is into. 
Reason #3: Not many providers come to the client's city. 
Reason #4: The fee is something the client can agree to.

And, by far the most important... R

Reason #5: Asking for a face photo is a reasonable request for the provider -- and results in a confirmed appointment.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Marc in Calif said:

...
Reason #2: The description and "Into" list are everything the client is into. ...

You do what works for you. As for myself, when I see faceless profiles...

[GTMike]

22 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

^This is a lot of the reason providers do not show face pics, particularly those who travel frequently and/or are more well known porn actors and models. Not just for general privacy concerns, but also to avoid customs and border control enforcement. I'm posting a link below to CBP protocol for searches of electronic devices. The latest one I'm aware of is 2018. If there is a newer one, please post it.

If you are American and post face pics on your ads and want to work in another country - or even take a vacation abroad - you are WAY more likely to be stopped and questioned upon your return, phone and other devices searched, and you will be interrogated and detained for many hours. Vast, constantly updated facial recognition databases gives them reason to stop you. If they find anything incriminating on your devices, they report you to state and local law enforcement.

If you are not an American citizen, US customs will put a big scarlet letter on your record and deport you, banning entry for a decade or more.

It wasn't a big deal 5-10 years ago when detainee search numbers were very low, but now it's more common with facial recognition automating the process. Every year the detainee numbers continue to rise in the name of "national security", when their premise for doing this is purely moral. Enforcing laws to do with sex work is outside the jurisdiction of Customs and Border Protection; however they can say ANYTHING is for "national security" and don't even need a warrant to detain you, search your devices, and interrogate you. A blip on facial recognition software for that one pic on that one ad a provider posted two years ago but then deleted a week later is enough for them to go on.

There are workarounds, but it's extremely inconvenient, not to mention costly to be detained upon re-entry to the US.

If you're an American citizen, the authorities have to let you back in, but only after they detain, search you and interrogate you. You are not obligated to answer any questions but they can and will coerce you and bully you as best they can, make you as uncomfortable as possible, plus confiscate and search your devices. Heaven help you if you have low blood sugar issues or anything else that could jeopardize your health while under interrogation.

Anything on your devices is fair game. Anything on a cloud service or requiring internet to access from that device is technically out of bounds unless they find incriminating stuff actually on the device first. They have to return your devices, but not for many days or even weeks later, and they COPY your device digitally and maintain records of it for years unless you have nothing on it to incriminate you. If you're lucky, they don't find anything and give the device back when they release you.

If you're a SW not in the know, you almost certainly have at least one incriminating item on your phone. A text, an ad link, a transaction, anything. Now that you're on a watchlist, you will be even more likely to be detained again in the future, and possibly arrested in your home jurisdiction, or at least closely watched now that you're in a local database. Meanwhile you miss connecting flights, lose work, unintentionally ghost your clients who are expecting you to show up to your previously arranged appointments...it's a f*ing NIGHTMARE.

If you never travel to the US or other countries with lame sex work laws, you're fine. For many of us, that is not a practical way to live. Every provider is taking a huge risk posting face pics all over the internet, especially in the more explicit places like RentMen. And yes, they last FOREVER, long after you take down your ads or years after you exit the biz. This is one of the many reasons we charge what we do for SW. There's an embedded risk to showing our faces that the client never has to even think about but we have to deal with all the consequences if and when the sh*t hits the fan.

The below protocols are intended to protect us and limit the broad power given to CBP that anywhere else in the US would be considered unconstitutional, but I hear many stories of CBP not respecting these protocols. Nobody is enforcing their own policies. CBP has virtually no accountability. You could sue, at great cost, and with great difficulty. That's about it.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2018-Jan/CBP-Directive-3340-049A-Border-Search-of-Electronic-Media-Compliant.pdf

Not disagreeing with you or downplaying concerns but it also seems that putting aside RM explicitly, there are so many Twitter/X profiles of sexually explicit pictures and video's promoting their OnlyFans, "Master Dom" sites and asking for DM's and links to private messaging to Instagram etc..all while posting from and about all over the world.

They often list their travel plans domestically and internationally soliciting for potential meet-up opportunities. I'd just imagine if there was a concerted effort to crack down on potential stoppages, they could easily shoot some fish in the barrel before going after guys/girls who go to great lengths to conceal their visages?

Again not disagreeing with you but more thinking out loud anectodally.

[Simon Suraci]

44 minutes ago, GTMike said:

Again not disagreeing with you but more thinking out loud anectodally

Sure. I’m obviously not taking any precautions to hide myself online. The comments are more an observation of other providers I know of that go out of their way to limit their online exposure.

Not everyone does this of course, and not everyone needs to or wants to. In fact, those that do are in the minority. Being detained or deported by CBP is one of many explanations of why some providers severely limit or omit their face pics.

[soloyo215]

8 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I'm curious as to WHY you'd consider investigating a no-face profile? Do you live in a market with few escorts? In most cities, if I can't see the face (or body), I just move on to the next profile. I'm struggling to imagine a reason to investigate such profiles further. Even if you don't care about what the man's face looks like, as you discovered, the absence of the face photo can represent a serious red flag regarding commitment to this line of work. In addition, I'd be worried about fake photos in such a profile. If he's so concerned about privacy, well, he's in the wrong business.

LOL! I understand your point. And hard to say about where I live, living in what is supposed to be a large city, but seems like it runs like a small town. So in terms of opportunities and availability of services, I guess it fluctuates. Yes, regardless of the number of available choices, what catches my attention is a combination of the pictures and the information in the profile, not just what I see in the pictures. The one that I hired that had no face had information in the profile and reviews that were good, plenty of detailed information that made me feel compelled to give him a try. I did, and it wasn't great, but not because he didn't show his face in the profile. He was very pleasant, personable and friendly. We just didn't have the right chemistry.

Also, Personally I do not correlate lack of face pictures with lack of commitment to the trade. First, just like me and my current job, I'm in it for the money and benefits, can't care less about anything else, so I see nothing wrong with detachment from the profession and thinking of it as little as possible. Second, there are many reasons why providers will not include their face. The rest of the profile and reviews, along with the type and quality of pictures is what tells the whole story.

I don't think that there's one right or wrong way of approaching this. We just do what we feel comfortable doing.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, soloyo215 said:

...I don't think that there's one right or wrong way of approaching this. We just do what we feel comfortable doing.

I agree. Everyone should do what's right for him. As a practical matter of fact, however, as long as the market has a lot of profiles with facial photos, the escort without photos is probably going to have a difficult time getting the amount of business he wants. There have been a number of strings on this website which will attest to this fact. Other strings have discussed that when they've contacted escorts (for example, to ask for a face photo), but not booked an appointment, the potential client can get listed in a variety of websites escorts use to label "time wasters" or "photo collectors." For me, there is ZERO reason for me to waste my time asking for photos and risk getting myself listed in one of these websites if there are plenty of other profiles which have all of the information I need to make a choice. Others may feel differently. Do what's right for you. Before you go on asking a bunch of faceless escorts for more photos, though, I might suggest you read through some other strings in this forum, such as the "Mister number" string. 

How long do I have to wait to see some dolt laugh his head off?

Edited September 23, 2023 by Unicorn

[Guest]

Welcome to the forum, @icecream.