Sugar-daddy scam

[Guest]

One of my fiance's handsome friends got a message on Instagram from someone who offered to be his sugar-daddy. I'm not sure why (I learned this 2nd hand), but he gave him his checking account number, which was promptly wiped out. I wonder if the bank can trace it... Don't ever give your account number out! 

Addendum: the title should say "scam," not "scan."

Mod note: Took care of that title for you.

 

[Luv2play]

18 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

One of my fiance's handsome friends got a message on Instagram from someone who offered to be his sugar-daddy. I'm not sure why (I learned this 2nd hand), but he gave him his checking account number, which was promptly wiped out. I wonder if the bank can trace it... Don't ever give your account number out! 

Addendum: the title should say "scam," not "scan."

Can someone access and take out money from a bank account with just the account number? Here in Canada if using an ATM you need to have a card ( which I supose a sophisticated criminal could fabricate) but you also need a pin number to complete the transaction.

If using a computer, if it is not the same computer that the client regularly uses, the bank will ask two identifying questions which only the client can answer. 

Is it different in the States? 

[rvwnsd]

I'm surprised the guy could do that with only the account number, unless the friend gave the "sugar daddy" his bank routing number. Even so, unless the "sugar daddy" also had the friend's online banking credentials he wouldn't have been able to initiate an ACH transfer from the friend's bank account or from his own. In order to set up an account the "sugar daddy" doesn't own as a "transfer from" account he would either need the credentials to prove his ownership or initiate trial deposits, which he would have to verify by logging into the friend's account.

The friend can initiate an unauthorized withdrawal claim. 

5 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

Can someone access and take out money from a bank account with just the account number?

No, the bank name and routing number are required to initiate an ACH transaction or to create a physical or electronic check.

7 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

...If using a computer, if it is not the same computer that the client regularly uses, the bank will ask two identifying questions which only the client can answer...

This is not universal. Most banks require the security questions and/or entering a PIN and others require multi-factor authentication, i.e. a code sent to the mobile phone or email address on file. The code has to be entered before the person logging in can access their account online. Some, but very few, banks did not have these measures in place. I use past tense because:

9 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

...Is it different in the States? 

The Federal Trade Commission updated the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act (GLBA) to require multi-factor authentication from customers. The requirement was delayed a couple of times, but last I heard the due date for implementation was June 9, 2023.

[kingsley88]

Isn't the bank routing number and your account number listed on your check (paper)? I don't even remember the last time I used a paper check.

[jeezifonly]

Flattery wins the day, eh? Was it “send me all your bank info and I’ll deposit the money, then we can meet up”?

Perhaps your fiancé’s friend was gifted with more looks than sense… tough break. 

 

[rvwnsd]

54 minutes ago, kingsley88 said:

Isn't the bank routing number and your account number listed on your check (paper)? I don't even remember the last time I used a paper check.

Yes, it is. The point is if the friend gave the "sugar daddy" his bank account number but not his bank's routing number I don't see how the "sugar daddy" could wipe out the friend's bank account.

[+ sync]

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I would absolutely not give an individual stranger a-n-y of my banking data.

[+ ThroatCummer]

This all boils down to the fundamental structure of how the FedACH system works.

If a scammer puts in enough time and effort, they can set up a "fake" relationship with a bank or payment provider directly that will, in fact, allow for direct debit from a checking account with just an account number and bank routing number. There doesn't even need to be a full name match per NACHA standards. You can just say you're authorized to debit and if you have the facility or knowledge on how to do it, it can be done. 

ACHs are sometimes reversible for up to 30 days, to a maximum of 90. But those funds are long transferred out of the scammer account and gone by the time it is realized.

Protect your ABA/Account information just like you would your SSN. 

[pubic_assistance]

8 hours ago, kingsley88 said:

Isn't the bank routing number and your account number listed on your check (paper)? I don't even remember the last time I used a paper check.

Yes.

Seems a fishy story 

Anybody who has a check from anybody has their account number and routing number printed on the check. 

Simply having an account number to send money and instead having it withdrawn seems to be improbable.

Edited June 15, 2023 by pubic_assistance
Spelling

[wsc]

This sounds like deja-moo to me; I've heard this bull before.

I find two aspects of this incident unfathomable. (1) How, armed with only an account number (but not bank name or routing info?), any money could have been withdrawn. If that happened, change banks. Now! (2) That anyone would give this kind of information to someone he's never met, and who contacted him from out of the blue. (Hope he never gets the text that the package he never ordered is ready for delivery; just call this number to confirm personal info to initiate delivery. He sounds like the target market for that scam.) Never give personal info to someone who calls or contacts you.

I've had more calls than I can count informing me that my Social Security account has been suspended, or that the FBI is on the way to arrest me now, unless I call this number and make immediate payment. Why don't I just give you my SSN and mother's maiden name, and then you can help yourself? As Gordon Gekko said, "A fool and his money are lucky to have gotten together in the first place."

Sorry this happened to your fiancé's friend, but stupid has consequences. I hope this is the beginning of a learning curve, and chalk it up as tuition.

 

[+ nycman]

Call me skeptical, but I suspect the sugar baby’s sugar bowl
has been empty for a long time and this is just a tall tale to
explain (and perhaps gain sympathy for) the total lack of
funds in his bank account. 

As my accountant says, "it doesn’t pass the smell test". 

[shadowcatzxxx]

Hi all!  In an entirely non-sex, non-escort/masseur, non-crypto experience, I had to spend nearly an hour in my bank this week, setting up a wire transfer from my account to an account in my name at the firm that handles my taxes and investments. They not only wanted to double-check all the numbers, they had a questionnaire I needed to fill out with a dozen questions: did I know the recipient personally? etc.  Then they wanted the recipient's phone # and of course, around noontime, the two investment advisors whose numbers I gave them were out at lunch, so the call went to VM.

About half an hour into the hour process, I asked what was going on. Their response was that wire fraud has increased 600% (yes, six hundred percent) since the pandemic, and that all bank personnel had mandatory training sessions on all these new safeguards.

[SirBillybob]

16 hours ago, Luv2play said:

Can someone access and take out money from a bank account with just the account number? Here in Canada if using an ATM you need to have a card ( which I supose a sophisticated criminal could fabricate) but you also need a pin number to complete the transaction.

If using a computer, if it is not the same computer that the client regularly uses, the bank will ask two identifying questions which only the client can answer. 

Is it different in the States? 

Not online-related but I know a guy that had his bag pocket open at a Village Couche-Tard not long ago. A sticky fingers pro lifted his wallet and cleaned out his accounts over a short period, not at ATMs but using the smaller amount tap functions hopping from retail to retail where pin is not necessary. I get it. I tap regularly everywhere. The victim was as upset about the loss of contents ID etc as the cash loss. What is unclear is whether the perp was able to use cash-back features in the ‘hood. You would yourself know how easy a circuit run would be in that district. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by SirBillybob

[SirBillybob]

56 minutes ago, nycman said:

Call me skeptical, but I suspect the sugar baby’s sugar bowl
has been empty for a long time and this is just a tall tale to
explain (and perhaps gain sympathy for) the total lack of
funds in his bank account. 

As my accountant says, "it doesn’t pass the smell test". 

Age 12 preciousness: My bestie’s dog Sugar ate my homework whilst we catfished, Daddy.

Age 22 preciousness: That dog of a catfishing Sugar Daddy ate the fruits of my labour, bestie. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by SirBillybob

[SouthOfTheBorder]

47 minutes ago, SirBillybob said:

A sticky fingers pro lifted his wallet and cleaned out his accounts over a short period, not at ATMs but using the smaller amount tap functions hopping from retail to retail where pin is not necessary

well Riobard - while the tale you relate is regrettable under any circumstances, it’s entirely preventable.  

All banks provide numerous ways to set alerts for transactions at spending levels determined by customer & the instant function to lock the card if stolen or unauthorized charges are happening.  Of course, this is dependent on the phone not being stolen too.

Not being ripped off these days requires a modicum of common sense & a few reasonable preventative measures

[SirBillybob]

Glad the title was moderated and corrected to a T not to a T, though T would have been a hoot. 😉

Edited June 15, 2023 by SirBillybob

[Guest]

To answer some questions raised above, yes, he probably had to give the bank routing number in addition to the account number. I doubt the friend was just looking for sympathy, as that's really not like him, and he sounded quite upset on the phone. He asked my fiance not to tell anyone, though I'm guessing he should have pretty much assumed I'd know as well, since we're essentially an item, and I was standing right there when my fiance took the call. I'd like to ask him myself (I consider us friends as well), although it would be awkward at this time since my beau was asked to keep the story to himself. I suppose my fiance could say that I was standing right there, and he had to tell me, since that's true. 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

10 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

To answer some questions raised above,

when stories like these don’t make sense - it’s wise to consider other possible scenarios 

such as, perhaps you are the intended target 

all roads lead to the deep pockets 

[+ nycman]

30 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

I'd like to ask him myself

Honestly, I don’t see how it’s your problem or any of your business.

[Luv2play]

4 hours ago, SirBillybob said:

Not online-related but I know a guy that had his bag pocket open at a Village Couche-Tard not long ago. A sticky fingers pro lifted his wallet and cleaned out his accounts over a short period, not at ATMs but using the smaller amount tap functions hopping from retail to retail where pin is not necessary. I get it. I tap regularly everywhere. The victim was as upset about the loss of contents ID etc as the cash loss. What is unclear is whether the perp was able to use cash-back features in the ‘hood. You would yourself know how easy a circuit run would be in that district. 

Yeah I forgot about the tap and pay feature for amounts under $100. That's why I'm pretty careful about having my card on my person.

Someone could buy a lot of liquor as an example where I use the tap feature on my card.

[SirBillybob]

16 hours ago, Luv2play said:

Yeah I forgot about the tap and pay feature for amounts under $100. That's why I'm pretty careful about having my card on my person.

Someone could buy a lot of liquor as an example where I use the tap feature on my card.

In my lifetime I’ve only had my Régie card (near expiry so not a biggie) and xerox of passport lifted as they were together and easily accessible in my bag. I was using them abroad as proof of age for free public transport access each time embarking. It would be extremely extremely difficult for somebody to get ahold of my debit and credit cards.

A sibling, quite bright and aware in general, almost got taken in by a phone scam two years ago. The one posing as CRA. Got to the point of speaking to a convincing sounding rep impersonator before spidey-sense kicked in. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by SirBillybob

[Guest]

11 hours ago, SirBillybob said:

.... I was using them abroad as proof of age for free public transport access each time embarking ...

Where can one get free public transport just for being old? Makes me look forward to the not-so-distant future! 😃

[Guest]

Well, as an update, the friend knows I know, as he knows I was there while he was talking to my beau on the phone. He's never been an escort before, but asked my fiance for his prior regulars' phone #s, and is taking on a new 2nd job to make up for his losses. He says he doesn't mind their mutual friends' knowing about the escorting stuff, but he doesn't want them to know about his being fleeced. 

[SirBillybob]

58 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Where can one get free public transport just for being old? Makes me look forward to the not-so-distant future! 😃

Don’t get TOO excited. It’s about a USD$1.50 offset equivalency per subway ride entry. It just saves the hassle of buying at the wicket or machine and sometimes the cop scanning you in is cute. But also half price tickets movie theatres and most cultural events, and priority senior flight boarding before the predominant Econ surge, grocery store queues, etc

Tall and tan and young and lovely …

Edited June 17, 2023 by SirBillybob

[SirBillybob]

22 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Well, as an update, … He says he doesn't mind their mutual friends' knowing about the escorting stuff, but he doesn't want them to know about his being fleeced. 

I’m happy to openly deconstruct how I was catfished in a different type of scam scenario with an imposter. No money, romance, or sexualization was involved. I think that everybody has the capacity to be hoodwinked if the confluence of factors lines up just so. The important thing is to acquire the ear of neutral parties so that you can re-appraise the intersection of the two roles and your own contribution. A life lesson. I think that you could be a valuable resource in debriefing with this younger chap.

Edited June 17, 2023 by SirBillybob