What caused the decay of San Francisco?

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

4 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.

Abraham Lincoln

👏

[pubic_assistance]

7 hours ago, BSR said:

For years if not decades, San Franciscans called anyone who disagreed with them racist, white supremacist, stupid, bigoted, hate-filled, and so on.  Now that San Francisco is going to hell in a handbasket, thanks to their own "enlightened" policies, do you really expect those of us SFans smeared as racist monsters to extend our hands and sing Kumbaya?

I agree. 

The righteous indignation hasn't made them many friends in Middle America. 

I think since sports are a big thing in the flyover states, their view of failing cities is equivalent to crushing an opposing football team. Cheering on the (well deserved) failure of an opposing social experiment. 

[marylander1940]

9 hours ago, BSR said:

For years if not decades, San Franciscans called anyone who disagreed with them racist, white supremacist, stupid, bigoted, hate-filled, and so on.  Now that San Francisco is going to hell in a handbasket, thanks to their own "enlightened" policies, do you really expect those of us SFans smeared as racist monsters to extend our hands and sing Kumbaya?

The 2 main problems in San Francisco are homeless and the fact that cops can't enforce the law or laws about crime just don't make sense. How many times someone has to break into a car and get caught to finally go to jail?

Gay men including yourself have been benefited by many enlightened policies, technologies, ideas, etc. that came out of that city! Even the technologies that allow this forum to exist and that have taken gay men online instead cruising in parks, have roots in Silicon Valley! 

For instance, San Francisco was one of the very first cities in this country where nonwhites and gay men didn't suffer open legal racism. 

[marylander1940]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

I agree. 

The righteous indignation hasn't made them many friends in Middle America. 

I think since sports are a big thing in the flyover states, their view of failing cities is equivalent to crushing an opposing football team. Cheering on the (well deserved) failure of an opposing social experiment. 

Yet a lot of tax dollars from California go to fund states in the middle of the country and particularly in Appalachia and the Bible Belt allowing them to balance their fiscally irresponsible budgets. 

What a childish analogy? Are you actually celebrating the fact that one of the motors of this country has so many self-inflicted problems? 

They and us? San Francisco's social experiment includes taking the government off your bedroom, marriage equality, recreational use of pot, etc. You have benefited from the acceptance of that social experiment! 

Unfortunately, some employers can still fire gay men in this country but most of the predicaments of "SF social experiment" have been adopted by the rest of the nation and most of the world! 

Edited June 16, 2023 by marylander1940

[SouthOfTheBorder]

10 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

don't think Japan since the 90's has been a good example when it comes to many things

You obviously haven’t been to Japan recently.  
There’s not much there for anyone to take issue with regardless of underlying American perceptions or media reports:  the country is spotless, everything works, crime is so low that’s it’s not even an issue, the people are routinely polite & tolerant.  They revere and protect nature. The economy has been relatively stagnant, yet from all outward appearances it’s a very prosperous & orderly country with an overall feeling of calm & well being.  No raised voices on the Tokyo subway and no horns honking in Tokyo traffic.  No visible homeless population, no visible drug addicts, no wandering people in mental health crisis. 
In short - it’s civilized where the US is anything but.  

[marylander1940]

5 minutes ago, SouthOfTheBorder said:

You obviously haven’t been to Japan recently.  
There’s not much there for anyone to take issue with regardless of underlying American perceptions or media reports:  the country is spotless, everything works, crime is so low that’s it’s not even an issue, the people are routinely polite & tolerant.  They revere and protect nature. The economy has been relatively stagnant, yet from all outward appearances it’s a very prosperous & orderly country with an overall feeling of calm & well being.  No raised voices on the Tokyo subway and no horns honking in Tokyo traffic.  No visible homeless population, no visible drug addicts, no wandering people in mental health crisis. 
In short - it’s civilized where the US is anything but.  

Where are you from originally? Is your country more civilized than ours? 

I won't disagree with most of what you stated about Japan but you're missing the lost generation and there's also an underlying issue of mental crisis but it's not out there and folks won't talk about it. 

Also no drug addiction because they don't have a border with a poor and corrupt country flooding Japan with drugs, right? 

Opinion | The Lingering Tragedy of Japan’s Lost Generation - The New York Times

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

---

Japan can’t summon the will to confront the problems of its economic underclass.

Edited June 16, 2023 by marylander1940

[SouthOfTheBorder]

9 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

Where are you from originally? Is your country more civilized than ours? 

born & raised in middle America.  I’ve lived all over the United States and know it extremely well.  
It’s a country going backwards by almost any measure.  It’s not unusual in a historical context.  
All great empires crumble and it’s almost always the direct result of internal failures that cause the collapse vs external. The United States is in the process of slow collapse - San Francisco is just a leading indicator.  
Americans generally don’t understand history so they aren’t connecting the dots.  

I wish it was different.  

[pubic_assistance]

6 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

What a childish analogy? Are you actually celebrating the fact that one of the motors of this country has so many self-inflicted problems? 

Several of the posters on this site have this habit of assuming my observations are also my own viewpoints. 

No. I am not personally celebrating.

I am saying I UNDERSTAND why others would. 

I understand the "don't bite the hand that feeds you" reflection but clearly they don't care. It's a little like saying you should be thankful for the money your parents give you but you should keep quiet about fact they are mismanaging their source of income.

Edited June 16, 2023 by pubic_assistance

[SouthOfTheBorder]

2 hours ago, marylander1940 said:

Are you actually celebrating the fact that one of the motors of this country has so many self-inflicted problems? 

he may not be celebrating - but millions of others are doing exactly that.  

that’s the really baffling thing; a population so brain-washed and indoctrinated that they want their own cities to fail.  Common sense has been discarded & replaced with ideology that only serves the politicians & media outlets for money.  They monetize the manufactured outrage - that’s why everything is reported as a crisis along with desperate pleas for money and/or attention.
 
Its capitalism run amok without any other political beliefs , consuming itself for the elites at the very top who have no loyalty to country, party, core values or anything else except self-interest.  
You don’t have to look much further than the recent defamation lawsuits to know the news people don’t believe their own reporting - just taking advantage of the rubes for money. 
then there’s the politicians that rail against the government, yet happily take the government paycheck, government perks/benefits, travel, staff & everything else. Not a mention about that.  Because it’s ok for them, but not ok for you. 

[samhexum]

• 'GMA' warns reporter to avoid 'dangerous' downtown San Fran during segment on closing mall

• Matt Gutman told viewers that his crew was instructed to film their 4 a.m. GMT “Good Morning America” segment in a separate part of the city while reporting on the shocking closure of the Westfield Mall.

  Though the shopping center — the latest in a swath of Bay Area staples to shutter their doors — cited decreasing foot traffic for its shutdown, Gutman suggested that the city’s rising crime could be to blame.

  “The mayor noting that several metrics of crime are actually flat or down. But it is worth mentioning that we are not at Union Square or the Westfield Mall this morning because we have been advised it is simply too dangerous to be there at this hour,” Gutman said.

• 

• A sexy man like him should not be out at that hour.  He should be safely snuggling with me.

[Lookin]

♬   ♪ ♪       There you are!  I dreamed an evil queen had soured all the apples.

[samhexum]

another day, another closure...

 

• 

  AT&T shutting flagship store in San Francisco, deepening city's pain

[nate_sf]

On 6/16/2023 at 11:36 AM, samhexum said:

'GMA' warns reporter to avoid 'dangerous' downtown San Fran during segment on closing mall

• Matt Gutman told viewers that his crew was instructed to film their 4 a.m. GMT “Good Morning America” segment in a separate part of the city while reporting on the shocking closure of the Westfield Mall.

  Though the shopping center — the latest in a swath of Bay Area staples to shutter their doors — cited decreasing foot traffic for its shutdown, Gutman suggested that the city’s rising crime could be to blame.

  “The mayor noting that several metrics of crime are actually flat or down. But it is worth mentioning that we are not at Union Square or the Westfield Mall this morning because we have been advised it is simply too dangerous to be there at this hour,” Gutman said.

• 

• A sexy man like him should not be out at that hour.  He should be safely snuggling with me.

That is simply preposterous. 

[samhexum]

9 minutes ago, nate_sf said:

That is simply preposterous. 

Hey, I'm not the only one here who has said Matt Gutman is sexy.

[nate_sf]

On 6/17/2023 at 3:28 AM, samhexum said:

another day, another closure...

 

• 

  AT&T shutting flagship store in San Francisco, deepening city's pain

… and yet new stores that are being opened are not covered in the news. Just the closures, only the bad news. 

We locals are bewildered by all this negative national coverage. Yes there are problems but the media is going out of its way to paint a dire picture, and it just ain’t so. It is not dangerous here, and the vast majority of the city looks great. Westfield is offloading all of their US properties in the next year, but it’s San Francisco Centre that makes the news. I guess reporting on Westfield turning its malls back to the lenders in places like Tampa Bay doesn’t fit the narrative. 

[nate_sf]

1 hour ago, samhexum said:

Hey, I'm not the only one here who has said Matt Gutman is sexy.

Lol he is indeed sexy, even if he is misinformed. 

[+ FrankR]

On 6/21/2023 at 8:47 PM, nate_sf said:

… and yet new stores that are being opened are not covered in the news. Just the closures, only the bad news. 

We locals are bewildered by all this negative national coverage. Yes there are problems but the media is going out of its way to paint a dire picture, and it just ain’t so. It is not dangerous here, and the vast majority of the city looks great. Westfield is offloading all of their US properties in the next year, but it’s San Francisco Centre that makes the news. I guess reporting on Westfield turning its malls back to the lenders in places like Tampa Bay doesn’t fit the narrative. 

You are not wrong. Even CNBC is noe saying that previous reports by media AND management of retail stores about how bad theft or “shrinkage” has been…has been overblown. “It is a crutch to obscure internal challenges”
 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/10/retailers-may-be-using-organized-theft-to-cover-up-internal-flaws.html

[marylander1940]

3 minutes ago, arnemgreeves said:

CA must be one of the richest places on Earth. But it seems pretty fake, and uncaring as a place. I'm not American but as a liberal/Democrat place the massive homeless problem isn't a good look. And why is there a housing crisis? There's lots of empty land to literally build entire new towns and cities. 

Nearby states lure homeless with food to move to California, homeless should be locked up and treated.

[BSR]

I recently saw an interesting interview with a homeless advocate.  He works in LA, not SF, but I'm it's true everywhere.  He said that many assume that the homeless lost their housing because they have a drug problem, but he said many women become addicts after becoming homeless. 

Virtually 100% of homeless women get raped.  Many turn to drugs to numb the trauma of rape, and many get addicted to meth to help them stay awake and walking around all night, when the risk of getting raped is higher.  He didn't have numbers or studies to back this up, just his personal experience, but I can see how it happens.

Edited August 11, 2023 by BSR
Typo

[BSR]

44 minutes ago, marylander1940 said:

Nearby states lure homeless with food to move to California, homeless should be locked up and treated.

Shipping the homeless away is a trick done all over.  NYC did it in 2009 and on a much larger scale in 2019.  Part of the rationale was to send them to places with a lower cost of living, yet the city sent some homeless to Hawaii where the rents are insane.

Also, homelessness isn't a crime.  You can't lock people up for being homeless, even if it's "for their own good."

Edited August 11, 2023 by BSR
Added last phrase

[marylander1940]

38 minutes ago, BSR said:

Shipping the homeless away is a trick done all over.  NYC did it in 2009 and on a much larger scale in 2019.  Part of the rationale was to send them to places with a lower cost of living, yet the city sent some homeless to Hawaii where the rents are insane.

Also, homelessness isn't a crime.  You can't lock people up for being homeless, even if it's "for their own good."

Butwhatabout...

Trespassing, defecating on the street,  doing drugs, being intoxicated in  public space, are violations of the law committed by homeless on a daily basis.

Cities who provide services are simply continuing their agony. They should be looked up in mental institutions and treated. Actually that was a case till a certain governor thought it was too expensive to keep poor folks in mental institutions, he also decided Pizza was a vegetable and good for kids to eat it daily in school. Part of his mixed legacy are two of the biggest problems in this country: homelessness and obesity.

I do appreciate all of a sudden some feeling sorry about folks who fell into homelessness I hope the empathic mood goes on.

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by marylander1940

[marylander1940]

57 minutes ago, BSR said:

I recently saw an interesting interview with a homeless advocate.  He works in LA, not SF, but I'm it's true everywhere.  He said that many assume that the homeless lost their housing because they have a drug problem, but he said many women become addicts after becoming homeless. 

Virtually 100% of homeless women get raped.  Many turn to drugs to numb the trauma of rape, and many get addicted to meth to help them stay awake and walking around all night, when the risk of getting raped is higher.  He didn't have numbers or studies to back this up, just his personal experience, but I can see how it happens.

One more reason to finally do something about it in the wealthiest country on Earth!

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, BSR said:

...homelessness isn't a crime...

No, but that doesn't mean anyone can pitch a tent anywhere he pleases, nor shoot up in the streets, start fires due to unsafe living situations, ignore basic sanitation, etc. Not all are mentally ill, but those who are and refuse treatment and are unable to care for themselves should be treated humanely in facilities designed to treat them. There should be laws severely restricting where and how (especially as concerns sanitation and fire safety) homeless can set up their tents. Those who violate those laws should be arrested, and it be determined the reason for the homelessness. If the reason is indeed mental health, those people should be offered the option of supervised outpatient treatment or mental health residential facilities. If the reason is spending all their money on drugs, those people should be offered the option of supervised drug rehabilitation or incarceration. If the reason is a temporary job loss, those people should be given vocational assistance and temporary housing. If it's a minor running away from abusive parents, there should be well-supervised foster care (or adoption), and the legal parents charged for those costs. Treating the homeless humanely means identifying the problem and addressing this problem. It does not mean enabling injurious lifestyles with free housing, while not addressing the root problem(s), especially when the public is placed at risk. 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Unicorn

[+ azdr0710]

[BSR]

4 hours ago, Unicorn said:

No, but that doesn't mean anyone can pitch a tent anywhere he pleases, nor shoot up in the streets, start fires due to unsafe living situations, ignore basic sanitation, etc.

Actually, a homeless person in San Francisco can shoot up and ignore basic sanitation (i.e., poop on the sidewalk).  It might not be exactly legal, but they certainly won't get arrested or fined for doing so.