Sensitive topic - race and rates

[GregWillingAble]

Based on my experience keeping an eye on rates here in the UK, it's clear that there is a national hourly average for (male) sex workers. Those undercharging are usually new and inexperienced (regardless of race).

Those grossly overcharging are either established porn actors (who perhaps should charge a premium) or, usually just arrogant white guys, who are doing it just because they feel they can.

A good example... A skinny, twinky white guy who lived near me with very limited sexual experience hit the steroids like crazy over lockdown and become a grossly hench muscle queen. Immediately after lockdown once he got a few "pro" photoshoots under his belt, he started advertising himself as an escort, charging double what every other local escort was in the region. It doesn't make you look premium - it makes you look like an arrogant chancer, and is deeply disrespectful to the other workers in the area. 

It's always white guys who do this and ignore the local market average. Every horse-hung, gym-buff black, latin or asian male sex worker I've seen who are new to advertising always start with lower rates and tend to budge up to just-above-average usually.

Edited June 22, 2023 by GregWillingAble

[pubic_assistance]

On 6/22/2023 at 10:53 PM, Simon Suraci said:

The white provider husband says that his clients who are interested in hiring two providers typically aren’t interested in hiring his black provider husband, specifically because of his race. Some are direct about it, some others are much less direct about why. It’s a shame.

It's really not. ( my opinion )

People's sexuality is formed from many different life experiences and emotional stimuli.

You like what you like. I don't think you can change that.

(And just for the record, I would have picked the hot black guy over the white one)....because while I think most people tend to go for what's familiar.... I tend to go for whats not.  I grew up in an all-white area of the country, and so black men are far more exciting to me, because they aren't what I was accustomed to growing up.

It's like the difference between people who like to go on adventures and explore and those who vacation at Disney every year.

Everyone has their own things that make them happy.

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

11 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

It's like the difference between people who like to go on adventures and explore and those who vacation at Disney every year.

Oh, please. It is rather like, "I would not spend time with you because you are Black" (or White, or any ethnicity)

We all have preferences, but excluding an entire kind of people is not a preference. 

[pubic_assistance]

24 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

Oh, please. It is rather like, "I would not spend time with you because you are Black" (or White, or any ethnicity)

We all have preferences, but excluding an entire kind of people is not a preference. 

Ridiculous.

Sexual preferences always exclude something.

This isn't access to healthcare.

Edited June 26, 2023 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[aiseeya]

24 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

Oh, please. It is rather like, "I would not spend time with you because you are Black" (or White, or any ethnicity)

We all have preferences, but excluding an entire kind of people is not a preference. 

I tend to hire guys who fit into my category of 'dream fuck' which to-date are of white/ latin descent (and have at least 7,5inch tool). There are ofc providers possesing that physical attribute from asian or black descent, but they are simply not my 'dream fuck'. Am i racist? Should i then stop hiring based on what attracts me? Perhaps i should spent my monies on guys who simply is not of my dream - am i gonna be happy then? 

I hire to realise my 'dream fuck'....not tick some D&I boxes 🤷‍♂️

[pubic_assistance]

3 minutes ago, blck37 said:

I hire to realise my 'dream fuck'....not tick some D&I boxes

THANK YOU !

[SouthOfTheBorder]

interesting discussion & I’ve never considered the question.

my preference in men is anything but Northern/Central European. so that leaves a broad range of possibilities.  

When hiring - there is no thought about skin color and corresponding rates.  I hire among what I see available at a given time & at a given rate.  I don’t negotiate down from a providers quote because I know what has to happen before they see me - it’s compensating for way more than 1 hour when everything is factored in.  

I find it easier to justify a higher rate when the person is very well known either in provider world or OF - a proven track record with much less risk. I obviously see & acknowledge color, but it has nothing to do with rate I will pay.
This could be very different in smaller cities or areas where prejudice & discrimination are more present.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

14 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Ridiculous.

Sexual preferences always exclude something.

This isn't access to healthcare.

It's not ridiculous. Sure, my sexual orientation excludes most women. But as someone who grew up in a very racist neighborhood, I've worked on my own consciousness. That doesn't make me color-blind (which is delusional) but it has opened me up to a wider range of men I find attractive than I did when I went to college. Similarly, I had a very specific "type" when I first came out (white, working class, ethnic, butch), but as I had more experiences, I found myself open to a greater variety of men in all shapes and sizes. If you would have told me at 17 that I'd end up with a "movie star" handsome, masculine, musical theater actor from the south, I'd have laughed in your face. 

When I first came out, all of my friends were black and Latino, and I hung out mostly in POC spaces. I wasn't found particularly desirable by most in those spaces, not because I'm white but because I'm femme. That situation improved slightly when I hung out with a more academic crowd, but not by much. 

I feel somewhat sorry for guys on here who are only attracted to a hyper-specific type. It really robs you of the opportunity to experience desire, sex, pleasure in so many forms. 

 

[pubic_assistance]

5 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

my sexual orientation excludes most women

So it's ok to be misogynist in your sexuality but not racist ..ok got it.

You just sound ridiculous in your logic here ( or lack there-of ).

Just because YOU will fuck anything that moves (except women) doesn't mean that most people are wired this way nor should they be.

[aiseeya]

9 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

It's not ridiculous. Sure, my sexual orientation excludes most women. But as someone who grew up in a very racist neighborhood, I've worked on my own consciousness. That doesn't make me color-blind (which is delusional) but it has opened me up to a wider range of men I find attractive than I did when I went to college. Similarly, I had a very specific "type" when I first came out (white, working class, ethnic, butch), but as I had more experiences, I found myself open to a greater variety of men in all shapes and sizes. If you would have told me at 17 that I'd end up with a "movie star" handsome, masculine, musical theater actor from the south, I'd have laughed in your face. 

When I first came out, all of my friends were black and Latino, and I hung out mostly in POC spaces. I wasn't found particularly desirable by most in those spaces, not because I'm white but because I'm femme. That situation improved slightly when I hung out with a more academic crowd, but not by much. 

I feel somewhat sorry for guys on here who are only attracted to a hyper-specific type. It really robs you of the opportunity to experience desire, sex, pleasure in so many forms. 

 

I think and honestly believe i am entitled to spend my monies how i want - its not like i am hurting anyone. Unless you think anyone else is entitled to my monies and i am somehow obligated to entertain that notion. 

I think i need to highlight that we are talking bout hiring providers here not your day to day life. 90% of my hire are white/ latin. 90% of my real life dates are asian. As i said again, i hire to realise my 'dream fuck'. 

Had an great 3some with 2 latinos (they are supposedly brothers) last weekend, enjoyed the hell out of it. Well that said its alright really, no need to feel sorry. I feel great in so far relating to this hobby. You do you though.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

8 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Just because YOU will fuck anything that moves (except women)

Someone is VERY sensitive about his predilections. I didn't say you were racist, nor do I think people who have an orientation toward one gender over the other are misogynist or misandrist.  

You've revealed quite a lot about yourself with this remark. I won't, in fact, fuck anything that moves. I've just developed a far broader and more diverse palette than I had growing up (and than you). But you assume a broad palette means lesser quality; as if I'm eating Mcdonald's and you're dining on caviar. 

The reality is that we're not WIRED for anything. Our orientation develops through genetics, hormones, socialization, etc. And our tastes tend to reflect the culture we grew up in. The former can be broadened somewhat, but the latter is far more elastic. 

In your own words, you are almost exclusively interested in younger, extremely fit, muscular bottoms. I also suspect this is why you think "fat and ugly people" must hire. Because to get what you desire, you have to hire. I don't see it that way at all. You have my sympathy, if not my empathy. 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

8 minutes ago, blck37 said:

I think and honestly believe i am entitled to spend my monies how i want - its not like i am hurting anyone. Unless you think anyone else is entitled to my monies and i am somehow obligated to entertain that notion. 

I wasn't referring to you. And I've never once said anyone must hire a certain provider or type of provider. This is a conversation about social and cultural phenomena. That people I'm assuming are grown adults, can't do that without feeling attacked is what's wrong with this country. 

[aiseeya]

12 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I wasn't referring to you. And I've never once said anyone must hire a certain provider or type of provider. This is a conversation about social and cultural phenomena. That people I'm assuming are grown adults, can't do that without feeling attacked is what's wrong with this country. 

Pretty sure topic is whether racial background of provider impact their rates and hence hiring eligibility or their clients profile. Still not sure why this being driven to somehow bout 'its racist to only like certain race, one must broaden their sexual preference to enjoy sex to the fullest' 🤷‍♂️

[SouthOfTheBorder]

41 minutes ago, blck37 said:

90% of my hire are white/ latin. 90% of my real life dates are asian.

interesting - why compartmentalization by race ?  not judging, just curious 

haven’t give this topic much thought previously, my hires & love interests are exactly the same 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

26 minutes ago, blck37 said:

one must broaden their sexual preference to enjoy sex to the fullest'

I don’t think it’s a must anything  
but how does anyone know what they like if not for the experience ? 

I’ve been with several women - not for me in general, but I wouldn’t rule it out completely.  As for ethnicities - I don’t know why I would limit myself by any self-imposed “preferences” when it’s really about individual chemistry ? Sure there are general things I like, but no deal breakers by race because that would be counterproductive.

I’ve said I don’t care for Northern/Central Europeans but that just means I like someone very different than me. 
when I keep an open mind about all things - I find options I didn’t know were available & wants/desires I didn’t know I had.  Makes life way more interesting

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[aiseeya]

Just now, SouthOfTheBorder said:

I don’t think it’s a must anything  
but how does anyone know what they like if not for the experience ? 

I’ve been with several women - not for me in general, but I wouldn’t rule it out completely.  As for ethnicities - I don’t know why I would limit myself by any self-imposed “preferences” when it’s really about individual chemistry ? Sure there are general things I like, but no deal breakers by race because that would be counterproductive.

I’ve said I don’t care for Northern/Central Europeans but that just means I like someone very different than me. 
when I keep an open mind about all things - I find options I didn’t know were available & wants/desires I didn’t know I had.  Makes life way more interesting

I can agree when it comes to general life outside of hiring providers. I only hire to realise my 'dream fuck' so yeah i am spending monies to realise something that i very keen on. I am very open to try sexual stuff or certain kinks, but when it comes to hiring provider i am very specific (given i am spending monies on them). Will i try say hire a provider that a bottom just to try to see if i can be a top? Surely not bcs i know i dont enjoy being a top. Will i try topping with someone that i date in real life? yeah why not, been there done it, not liking it but i still try it nonetheless bcs well my date asks me and i am not a client paying him monies to satisfy my very specific needs.

It should be highlighted that, imo, ppl hire and pay money to satisfy/ fulfill a very specific needs, whatever it may be. And one should not be faulted for such action. 

[+ José Soplanucas]

Hey, there is no way to convince "Color Blinded" people that Race is not the same as height or muscular mass. 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

3 minutes ago, blck37 said:

It should be highlighted that, imo, ppl hire and pay money to satisfy/ fulfill a very specific needs, whatever it may be. And one should not be faulted for such action. 

People hire for a variety of wants, needs and desires. For some people, it is to achieve their "dream fuck." I don't think such a thing exists so that's not my goal. 

We hire primarily for convenience. It's difficult as a couple, especially one past our partying days, to find the types of men we enjoy on the apps. We tend to be approached mostly by much younger (early 20s) twink-ish guys, who have a "Daddy" fantasy in person and on the apps. We did actually meet one young guy on Scruff who we had a few nice evenings with. But by hiring we spend our money to save time. We also avoid potential emotional entanglements. 

[+ José Soplanucas]

I do want to clarify one thing. Someone who does not hire or does not have sex with someone else because they are Black/White/fill the blank with your excluded ethnicity is not necessarily a Racist person, but has a Racist behavior on this point, whether or not they like it.                      

[SouthOfTheBorder]

2 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

We hire primarily for convenience.

YES !

2 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

But by hiring we spend our money to save time. We also avoid potential emotional entanglements. 

YES & YES !

 

[Luv2play]

On 4/11/2023 at 6:53 PM, rojjodc said:

I don't think so.  It would maybe even get worse, at least for a while.   And I don't think it is merely a gay issue as I suspect that nonwhite women generally make less than white providers.  I'm not sure how people can talk about rates when they are not published on Rentmen, which is the only site I know of right now.  And even if a provider quotes a rate, can we assume that they get a lot of clients or more clients than a provider with a lower rate?  On RentMasseur, I've seen rates of some massage providers for $200 -250/hour or more and wonder if they are making out better than other providers with lower rates, as I did not think they were that more special/attractive or their ad was all that more enticing to pay their massage rate.   

Rates are provided on RM  when the provider chooses to do so here in Canada. They show very little correlation between race and price.

There is a strong correlation between inches and rates. And you can guess who often has inches to spare.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Luv2play

[pubic_assistance]

3 hours ago, KensingtonHomo said:

But you assume a broad palette means lesser quality; as if I'm eating Mcdonald's and you're dining on caviar. 

I'm not PAYING to fuck fat ugly out of shape people.

They are they ones paying for the opportunity to be with someone hot.

Similarly I wouldnt pay money to eat at Mc Donalds ( or even if it were free ).

The issue here is about differences in rates with race. 

My point being that everyone has a right to fuck who they want. And people have different desires based on many factors. Not everyones experiences will  lead to a preference for white-boy-dick. 

When I think back over the many years and many hot fucks I've had ..there are several black men who come to mind. So personally I might be more inclined to pay MORE for a handsome / muscular black man based on MY life's experiences than I would an equally handsome / muscular white man. It's all about your experiences and what your brain tells you is hot. There is NO shame in admitting you like what you like . So please stop shaming people for being racist if they don't fuck everything under the sun.

Prejudice is denying a person essential services based on their skin color, not an opportunity to suck your dick.

[marylander1940]

19 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

I'm not PAYING to fuck fat ugly out of shape people.

They are they ones paying for the opportunity to be with someone hot.

Similarly I wouldnt pay money to eat at Mc Donalds ( or even if it were free ).

The issue here is about differences in rates with race. 

My point being that everyone has a right to fuck who they want. And people have different desires based on many factors. Not everyones experiences will  lead to a preference for white-boy-dick. 

When I think back over the many years and many hot fucks I've had ..there are several black men who come to mind. So personally I might be more inclined to pay MORE for a handsome / muscular black man based on MY life's experiences than I would an equally handsome / muscular white man. It's all about your experiences and what your brain tells you is hot. There is NO shame in admitting you like what you like . So please stop shaming people for being racist if they don't fuck everything under the sun.

Prejudice is denying a person essential services based on their skin color, not an opportunity to suck your dick.

Sometimes we must say the obvious, yes we're pickier when it comes to paying for sex, agreed! 

Back to the subject more than "white-boy-dick" some might have a preference for "white-boy-face" because the standard of beauty nowadays. Obviously not everyone wants to hire an Abercrombie & Fitch boy but based on some of the things I've read on here and seeing in life many Asians exclusively hire, date  and marry white men. 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

1 hour ago, pubic_assistance said:

Prejudice is denying a person essential services based on their skin color, not an opportunity to suck your dick.

Prejudice is also constantly judging people as "fat ugly and out of shape." I honestly don't care who you fuck as long as it's not me. 

You get dragged because you constantly put down providers and clients, who do not meet your exacting standards, which are de facto incredibly biased along race, class, ethnicity, etc. Not only do you want to fuck some incredibly tedious version of masculinity, but you think the rest of us should want that too. Worse, not only are you judgmental about who other people are fucking, you're incredibly thin-skinned when called on it. 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

1 hour ago, marylander1940 said:

based on some of the things I've read on here and seeing in life many Asians exclusively hire, date  and marry white men

Nah... most people date and marry within their own race. Like 80 percent or higher. This is you trying to explain away your biases by saying "look, that person of color is biased too!"