Sensitive topic - race and rates

[Monarchy79]

33 minutes ago, DWnyc said:

This topic comes up frequently on this forum. I’m one or the few who consistently argues that there is a racism problem and specifically when it comes to provider / client interaction, usually before some others get uncomfortable if not already denying it.

I can be an optimist on this if I choose, and that’s partly idealism but also based on experience.  I, however, am not denying you your views or experience.

 

We are on the same page. 
I’m just a smidge more pessimistic….😝

[RadioRob]

If you have to say Obama, Trump, Biden, etc...  you're off topic.  @rvwnsd has posted a reminder a bit ago.  If it continues, folks will enjoy a nice break from the site for a bit.   Cut the crap.  Ya'll know better.  

[+ APPLE1]

On 4/22/2023 at 3:11 PM, pubic_assistance said:

.... the United States has always been about poverty, not skin color.

I think many people use skin color as one of the major factors in making a prejudgement of socioeconomic status.

We would all experience a very different world if we had a colored dot on our nose showing our income. It would significantly affect the customer and provider sides of many, many business relationships, not just this business.

Edited April 23, 2023 by APPLE1
Spelling

[Jarrod_Uncut]

On 4/22/2023 at 10:47 AM, Rudynate said:

Is that an ethnic thing or a class thing?

I meant to elaborate on that…It’s not the Black clientele in those cities that I refer to as being problematic. It’s moreso just the general dynamic: I know in some cities like Atlanta and Chicago, Black and White gays are “voluntarily” segregated, yet the opportunity for interracial sex is endless on the Internet in those cities. Thus, those cities I find are not always reliable because, they have tons of free and paid men of color to choose from. Versus a place like say: San Francisco:

 

As for Missouri, it is actually very majority White. Kansas City and St. Louis are the only 2 areas where I believe the percent of Black is highest

 

However, it’s disappointing that in even the low percent Black areas of Missouri, where I should technically be in high demand (which I am, but only on thrift store minded hookup apps) the guys are low budget and don’t pay either…so it could be largely a class issue. Or racism, of not valuing a person of color enough to pay 🤷🏾‍♂️Most of these guys out here are so full of shit, because if they can talk about their $80,000 pickup truck, I know they can afford $250-$300.

Even had a guy managing one of the Cowboy calendar events in the area I was in, bullshit me twice on meeting. I just couldn’t believe it was him. Last time he asked when we’re going to meet. I said: whenever you’re ready to stop BSing.
 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Jarrod_Uncut

[muscmtl]

I am 100% racist.

If he's muscle, he sucks, kiss, rim and gets bred and...

.. he's BLACK, then I can't believe my luck that not only am I fucking a hot guy, but that I'm actually fucking a hot BLACK guy

.. he's ASIAN, then I can't believe my luck that not only am I fucking a hot guy, but that I'm actually fucking a hot ASIAN guy

.. he's LATINO, then I can't believe my luck that not only am I fucking a hot guy, but that I'm actually fucking a hot LATINO

.. he's INDIAN, then I can't believe my luck that not only am I fucking a hot guy, but that I'm actually fucking a hot INDIAN guy

.. he's (add any race, any nationality), then I can't believe my luck that not only am I fucking a hot guy, but that I'm actually fucking a hot (add any race, any nationality) guy
 

[blck37]

This post gets politic fast lol. It might be i am insensitive or not cultured, but when it comes to hiring provider, i always apply simple principle. Provider provide rates, if i can afford it book. If not, move on. Dick, look, top, rim, kiss, oral - that all what matters 😁

I dont hire twink, does it means i am ageist, or simply sex preference 🤷‍♂️

[Jamie21]

1 hour ago, blck37 said:

I dont hire twink, does it means i am ageist, or simply sex preference

It means you’re discerning in favour of quality older guys 😉

[pubic_assistance]

5 hours ago, blck37 said:

I dont hire twink, does it means i am ageist, or simply sex preference 🤷‍♂️

Applying the rules of social equality to anyone's sexual preferences is just stupid.

 

[GregWillingAble]

Based on my experience keeping an eye on rates here in the UK, it's clear that there is a national hourly average for (male) sex workers. Those undercharging are usually new and inexperienced (regardless of race).

Those grossly overcharging are either established porn actors (who perhaps should charge a premium) or, usually just arrogant white guys, who are doing it just because they feel they can.

A good example... A skinny, twinky white guy who lived near me with very limited sexual experience hit the steroids like crazy over lockdown and become a grossly hench muscle queen. Immediately after lockdown once he got a few "pro" photoshoots under his belt, he started advertising himself as an escort, charging double what every other local escort was in the region. It doesn't make you look premium - it makes you look like an arrogant chancer, and is deeply disrespectful to the other workers in the area. 

It's always white guys who do this and ignore the local market average. Every horse-hung, gym-buff black, latin or asian male sex worker I've seen who are new to advertising always start with lower rates and tend to budge up to just-above-average usually.

Edited June 22, 2023 by GregWillingAble

[Simon Suraci]

On 4/6/2023 at 12:14 PM, Simon Suraci said:

I don’t know if they charge different rates. I will ask and report back.

Reporting back. I’m happy to confirm that both guys charge the same rate.

One husband is white, one husband is black. I already know the white husband and have worked with him before. I brought him in for my client who wanted to hire three guys for a group play session. Selecting him had nothing to do with my client’s preferences for a certain look, age, body type or race. It’s really just who I suggested based on existing relationships and a level of trust going with someone I know. The third guy is also white, but again same reasons for suggesting him. No particular client preferences (or my own, for that matter) for certain races. The client trusted my recommendations and had a spectacular time. We rocked his world. He has since hired all three of us again and really enjoyed himself.

The client has also hired the other two guys individually for massage, but I’m still his go-to guy for his regular massages, and the occasional bdsm session.

The white provider husband says that his clients who are interested in hiring two providers typically aren’t interested in hiring his black provider husband, specifically because of his race. Some are direct about it, some others are much less direct about why. It’s a shame. They’re both stunning IMO. Seems like you would get a better experience hiring two married-to-one-another-men who are both working in the industry and have great existing chemistry with one another.

All to say, yes, implicit and explicit bias are still quite prevalent in the hiring world, but I am glad to confirm their rates are the same, as they should be, all other things being equal as they are in this case.

[pubic_assistance]

On 6/22/2023 at 10:53 PM, Simon Suraci said:

The white provider husband says that his clients who are interested in hiring two providers typically aren’t interested in hiring his black provider husband, specifically because of his race. Some are direct about it, some others are much less direct about why. It’s a shame.

It's really not. ( my opinion )

People's sexuality is formed from many different life experiences and emotional stimuli.

You like what you like. I don't think you can change that.

(And just for the record, I would have picked the hot black guy over the white one)....because while I think most people tend to go for what's familiar.... I tend to go for whats not.  I grew up in an all-white area of the country, and so black men are far more exciting to me, because they aren't what I was accustomed to growing up.

It's like the difference between people who like to go on adventures and explore and those who vacation at Disney every year.

Everyone has their own things that make them happy.

 

[+ José Soplanucas]

11 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

It's like the difference between people who like to go on adventures and explore and those who vacation at Disney every year.

Oh, please. It is rather like, "I would not spend time with you because you are Black" (or White, or any ethnicity)

We all have preferences, but excluding an entire kind of people is not a preference. 

[pubic_assistance]

24 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

Oh, please. It is rather like, "I would not spend time with you because you are Black" (or White, or any ethnicity)

We all have preferences, but excluding an entire kind of people is not a preference. 

Ridiculous.

Sexual preferences always exclude something.

This isn't access to healthcare.

Edited June 26, 2023 by pubic_assistance
grammar

[blck37]

24 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

Oh, please. It is rather like, "I would not spend time with you because you are Black" (or White, or any ethnicity)

We all have preferences, but excluding an entire kind of people is not a preference. 

I tend to hire guys who fit into my category of 'dream fuck' which to-date are of white/ latin descent (and have at least 7,5inch tool). There are ofc providers possesing that physical attribute from asian or black descent, but they are simply not my 'dream fuck'. Am i racist? Should i then stop hiring based on what attracts me? Perhaps i should spent my monies on guys who simply is not of my dream - am i gonna be happy then? 

I hire to realise my 'dream fuck'....not tick some D&I boxes 🤷‍♂️

[pubic_assistance]

3 minutes ago, blck37 said:

I hire to realise my 'dream fuck'....not tick some D&I boxes

THANK YOU !

[SouthOfTheBorder]

interesting discussion & I’ve never considered the question.

my preference in men is anything but Northern/Central European. so that leaves a broad range of possibilities.  

When hiring - there is no thought about skin color and corresponding rates.  I hire among what I see available at a given time & at a given rate.  I don’t negotiate down from a providers quote because I know what has to happen before they see me - it’s compensating for way more than 1 hour when everything is factored in.  

I find it easier to justify a higher rate when the person is very well known either in provider world or OF - a proven track record with much less risk. I obviously see & acknowledge color, but it has nothing to do with rate I will pay.
This could be very different in smaller cities or areas where prejudice & discrimination are more present.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

14 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Ridiculous.

Sexual preferences always exclude something.

This isn't access to healthcare.

It's not ridiculous. Sure, my sexual orientation excludes most women. But as someone who grew up in a very racist neighborhood, I've worked on my own consciousness. That doesn't make me color-blind (which is delusional) but it has opened me up to a wider range of men I find attractive than I did when I went to college. Similarly, I had a very specific "type" when I first came out (white, working class, ethnic, butch), but as I had more experiences, I found myself open to a greater variety of men in all shapes and sizes. If you would have told me at 17 that I'd end up with a "movie star" handsome, masculine, musical theater actor from the south, I'd have laughed in your face. 

When I first came out, all of my friends were black and Latino, and I hung out mostly in POC spaces. I wasn't found particularly desirable by most in those spaces, not because I'm white but because I'm femme. That situation improved slightly when I hung out with a more academic crowd, but not by much. 

I feel somewhat sorry for guys on here who are only attracted to a hyper-specific type. It really robs you of the opportunity to experience desire, sex, pleasure in so many forms. 

 

[pubic_assistance]

5 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

my sexual orientation excludes most women

So it's ok to be misogynist in your sexuality but not racist ..ok got it.

You just sound ridiculous in your logic here ( or lack there-of ).

Just because YOU will fuck anything that moves (except women) doesn't mean that most people are wired this way nor should they be.

[blck37]

9 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

It's not ridiculous. Sure, my sexual orientation excludes most women. But as someone who grew up in a very racist neighborhood, I've worked on my own consciousness. That doesn't make me color-blind (which is delusional) but it has opened me up to a wider range of men I find attractive than I did when I went to college. Similarly, I had a very specific "type" when I first came out (white, working class, ethnic, butch), but as I had more experiences, I found myself open to a greater variety of men in all shapes and sizes. If you would have told me at 17 that I'd end up with a "movie star" handsome, masculine, musical theater actor from the south, I'd have laughed in your face. 

When I first came out, all of my friends were black and Latino, and I hung out mostly in POC spaces. I wasn't found particularly desirable by most in those spaces, not because I'm white but because I'm femme. That situation improved slightly when I hung out with a more academic crowd, but not by much. 

I feel somewhat sorry for guys on here who are only attracted to a hyper-specific type. It really robs you of the opportunity to experience desire, sex, pleasure in so many forms. 

 

I think and honestly believe i am entitled to spend my monies how i want - its not like i am hurting anyone. Unless you think anyone else is entitled to my monies and i am somehow obligated to entertain that notion. 

I think i need to highlight that we are talking bout hiring providers here not your day to day life. 90% of my hire are white/ latin. 90% of my real life dates are asian. As i said again, i hire to realise my 'dream fuck'. 

Had an great 3some with 2 latinos (they are supposedly brothers) last weekend, enjoyed the hell out of it. Well that said its alright really, no need to feel sorry. I feel great in so far relating to this hobby. You do you though.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

8 minutes ago, pubic_assistance said:

Just because YOU will fuck anything that moves (except women)

Someone is VERY sensitive about his predilections. I didn't say you were racist, nor do I think people who have an orientation toward one gender over the other are misogynist or misandrist.  

You've revealed quite a lot about yourself with this remark. I won't, in fact, fuck anything that moves. I've just developed a far broader and more diverse palette than I had growing up (and than you). But you assume a broad palette means lesser quality; as if I'm eating Mcdonald's and you're dining on caviar. 

The reality is that we're not WIRED for anything. Our orientation develops through genetics, hormones, socialization, etc. And our tastes tend to reflect the culture we grew up in. The former can be broadened somewhat, but the latter is far more elastic. 

In your own words, you are almost exclusively interested in younger, extremely fit, muscular bottoms. I also suspect this is why you think "fat and ugly people" must hire. Because to get what you desire, you have to hire. I don't see it that way at all. You have my sympathy, if not my empathy. 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

8 minutes ago, blck37 said:

I think and honestly believe i am entitled to spend my monies how i want - its not like i am hurting anyone. Unless you think anyone else is entitled to my monies and i am somehow obligated to entertain that notion. 

I wasn't referring to you. And I've never once said anyone must hire a certain provider or type of provider. This is a conversation about social and cultural phenomena. That people I'm assuming are grown adults, can't do that without feeling attacked is what's wrong with this country. 

[blck37]

12 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

I wasn't referring to you. And I've never once said anyone must hire a certain provider or type of provider. This is a conversation about social and cultural phenomena. That people I'm assuming are grown adults, can't do that without feeling attacked is what's wrong with this country. 

Pretty sure topic is whether racial background of provider impact their rates and hence hiring eligibility or their clients profile. Still not sure why this being driven to somehow bout 'its racist to only like certain race, one must broaden their sexual preference to enjoy sex to the fullest' 🤷‍♂️

[SouthOfTheBorder]

41 minutes ago, blck37 said:

90% of my hire are white/ latin. 90% of my real life dates are asian.

interesting - why compartmentalization by race ?  not judging, just curious 

haven’t give this topic much thought previously, my hires & love interests are exactly the same 

[Simon Suraci]

It would do us all well to stick to the original topic of how/if race affects rates. The question of why race may play into it is a much bigger question about systemic bias I don’t think we will ever have the time or space to get to the bottom of here.

People have different desires at different times in their lives. Do what you want. Hire who you want. At the same time, I recommend clients be open to trying people and experiences different from what they normally would gravitate toward. Life is richer and fuller that way, IMHO.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

26 minutes ago, blck37 said:

one must broaden their sexual preference to enjoy sex to the fullest'

I don’t think it’s a must anything  
but how does anyone know what they like if not for the experience ? 

I’ve been with several women - not for me in general, but I wouldn’t rule it out completely.  As for ethnicities - I don’t know why I would limit myself by any self-imposed “preferences” when it’s really about individual chemistry ? Sure there are general things I like, but no deal breakers by race because that would be counterproductive.

I’ve said I don’t care for Northern/Central Europeans but that just means I like someone very different than me. 
when I keep an open mind about all things - I find options I didn’t know were available & wants/desires I didn’t know I had.  Makes life way more interesting

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder