What's your story when you offered a non-provider to be a provider?

[studchaser]

On 2/9/2023 at 2:55 PM, Todd Jenkins said:

I don't find this controversial at all. In fact, it makes COMPLETE SENSE!!!!

Many Gay men get their panties in a bunch when they hear that though. How dare you not like other gay men? You see it on this very board. The bottom line is if masculinity is your thing then straight men are the epitome of that both on average and in the extreme. 

[Roberto]

FYI Studchaser is a pimp specializing in "straight rough types" marketing to gay men (he posts on another board under a different name).....so his comments are self-serving and commerce related.....

[+ azdr0710]

3 minutes ago, Roberto said:

FYI Studchaser is a pimp specializing in "straight rough types" marketing to gay men (he posts on another board under a different name).....so his comments are self-serving and commerce related.....

Some would say this entire hobby is "self-serving and commerce-related". 

[Lazarus]

59 minutes ago, Roberto said:

FYI Studchaser is a pimp specializing in "straight rough types" marketing to gay men (he posts on another board under a different name).....so his comments are self-serving and commerce related.....

Where do I sign up? 

[MmM]

How do you phrase an offer on Grindr so it's not offensive to the nonprovidr?

[+ keroscenefire]

14 hours ago, MmM said:

How do you phrase an offer on Grindr so it's not offensive to the nonprovidr?

I think first you have to build a relationship with them. The reality is most messages on Grindr are ignored or regarded as bullshit so there probably is no point in directly asking someone on Grindr.

The only time I was successful in doing this (and actually the only time I tried), I actually hooked up with the guy first. And we got to talking and getting to know each other. And basically I learned that he was a broke college student and was interested in some similar things as myself. So I offered to take him on a trip to the mountains and offered to pay him for that and pay for the trip itself. He agreed and we occasionally did things here and there. After a while he finished school and was no longer interested in doing things with me, which I understood and respected. We still occasionally chat and I'd be open to meeting with him again if he initiated it, but I try not to push anything with him. 

[Simon Suraci]

A few thoughts.

Propositioning is fine. Adults can choose what they are willing to do regardless of economic status, relationship status, or sexual identity. People can simply ignore or say no, or say yes and participate freely.

The context of a proposition, however, matters. In particular, I advise not using the prospective hire’s work context as a way to propose an arrangement. For example, the pizza boy, the restaurant server, the ups delivery guy, the intern at your professional job, etc. These guys may or (often) may NOT appreciate your sexual advances, but they have to perform their jobs anyway. They’re a captive audience and they are in many ways beholden to you because of the work relationship context. They signed up to get paid for the work they are currently performing. They did not sign up to be harassed, pressured, or groomed to perform sex work. It’s just gross to me when I consider how a person must feel when they are obligated to be around people at their work context that hint at, or even openly propose, an arrangement. Seems disrespectful to me at the very least. Treat people like human beings, not pieces of meat. They are just trying to do their jobs.

Other contexts are more suitable. Drawing from some of the previously mentioned scenarios, I think it's fine to propose an arrangement with a random guy at a bar, or a fellow gym-goer, or some other context where they are not working with you or for you. There's no power dynamic or forced interaction that way.

Strippers, go-go dancers and sex work adjacent fields are more appropriate because the potential hire is already signing up for a situation where they are being paid on some level for their sex appeal. Even bartenders know they flirt for better tips, but it's still their job to serve you drinks, not part of their job to be pressured or even asked to do sex work. No means no, so respect that, even if their job is to wave their balls in a g-string at your face. Same applies when someone ignores an advance. Respect that and move on.

Hookup apps are tricky. In the US you aren't supposed to advertise services or   proposition and you can easily be banned or busted for doing so. Yes, it's a sexual context so I see the natural segway. No, it's not someone's place of non-sexual work, so nothing slimy there either. BUT you're taking unnecessary risks.

The best, most appropriate places to hire are platforms like rentmen (and others) because they are designed precisely for providers and clients to connect and make arrangements.

If you insist on hiring random guys who aren't providers…or you get off on the whole gay for pay IRL fantasy, feel free to leave your notes with phone numbers, envelopes of cash, verbal proposals, or what have you. BUT please keep your propositions out of your regular business transactions and work contexts. People work. The last thing they need is pressure and advances from a creepy guy when they are simply trying to do their job.

As to the whole capitalism system rants, I give up. Those are bigger topics perhaps beyond the scope of the OP subject at hand - best leave those conversations to the politics section or create a new thread.

[marylander1940]

I know many providers who started working that way. One of them in the sanctuary of Fatima in Portugal someone simply made him an offer in the restroom and he said why not easy money. Later on he developed a career out of it!.

[Guest]

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

...the pizza boy, the restaurant server, the ups delivery guy, the intern at your professional job...

Well, there's a huge, huge difference between the delivery man and an intern at your job. I'm not into that kind of stuff, but there are ethical and appropriate ways of approaching someone who doesn't work in the same place you do. Approaching someone who works where you do, especially if he works under you, will almost always be inappropriate. 

[Simon Suraci]

30 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Approaching someone who works where you do, especially if he works under you, will almost always be inappropriate. 

^I agree. It’s much worse when they are a subordinate in your organization.

Even if you don’t work with the person, say, at the same company, they may be working for you in a service capacity, if only for a short time like in the case of the server, or periodically in the case of the delivery driver, or perhaps even a healthcare provider.

In either case, the prospective hire has no choice in the matter of having to be around you and interact with you in the context of doing their work.

The concept applies in both scenarios; it’s just more egregious to proposition in the first scenario, but no more respectful in the second scenario to proposition someone.

[Simon Suraci]

55 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

there are ethical and appropriate ways of approaching someone who doesn't work in the same place you do

What ways do you propose are ethical and appropriate to approach someone who doesn’t work in the same place as yourself (but still works with/for you in some capacity, however limited)?

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Simon Suraci said:

What ways do you propose are ethical and appropriate to approach someone who doesn’t work in the same place as yourself (but still works with/for you in some capacity, however limited)?

Just pass him a note with your phone number, let him make the next move if interested. What kind of a person would be offended or feel pressured by that?

Edited April 18, 2023 by Unicorn

[Jamie21]

It’s kind of how I started. Not in an ‘I’m desperate for money way’ but in an ‘I’m intrigued to see what happens’ way. It was in a casual conversation with a friend, who suggested that I could sell what I had. I was naive and didn’t get what he meant at first, until he said ‘charge guys for sex’. I’d never even considered the possibility up to then…it just wasn’t something I thought I could do. 

First time a guy hired me my friend helped with the set up. I was chatting on Grindr with a guy who had initiated the conversation. There was no pic of him or anything but he was keen to meet. I played cool, but kept the conversation going, with the assistance of my friend who was with me. After a lot of chat the Grindr guy asks me ‘what will it take?’. I then had a long discussion with my friend about the rate…I had no clue. He suggested a number that was 4x what I was thinking: “just ask for that…what could happen? He says ‘no’?”. So I asked and the Grindr guy agrees. A street name is given, with instructions to stand outside house number x and wait for him to message me.

I guess he was watching for me when I turned up because sure enough after standing there for a few minutes (trying to look innocuous yet sexy at the same time) I get the message…’walk to house x and knock’. I walk there, knock and almost immediately the door opens and he invites me in. He’s a little older than I expected and short (one has a picture in one’s mind with these anonymous chats that never seems to match the reality). The guy tells me we have an hour as his wife is home later. I kind of want to be there naked on the bed when she turns up (is that bad of me?) but I say ok and follow him to the kitchen (I think is it going to happen in the kitchen?). He gets us some water and says ok let’s go to the bedroom. Like a puppy I follow him there. 

Let’s say I wasn’t very good (looking back, in hindsight! and knowing what I know now….) but he was very happy with the service and paid me. I think he knew it was my first time being hired. 

Suddenly a whole new world opened up. Walking back to the train station afterwards everything seemed different. I didn’t do any more sex work for a few years but it planted the seed for tackling it in a more professional way later. 

 

[MmM]

Well yesterday I was on Grindr and was chatting with a Brazilian visitor who was gonna leave there following day. I asked "why so soon?" In a cheeky way. He replied "I'd stay longer if you'll pay for it. Lol. ". Well that got the ball rolling. I said "well I can contribute...". We met and had fun. I think we liked each other, but the $ certainly got rid of the ambivalence and made us meet faster without the back and forth texting. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by MmM

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Jamie21 said:

....Suddenly a whole new world opened up. Walking back to the train station afterwards everything seemed different...
 

Sounds like the makings of a romance novel.

[Jamie21]

23 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Sounds like the makings of a romance novel.

Yeah I’m now married to the client 😂

[Simon Suraci]

9 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Just pass him a note with your phone number, let him make the next move if interested. What kind of a person would be offended or feel pressured by that?

Fair point @Unicorn. I think some guys would make a huge eye roll or be put off by it. Some would be flattered. Some may seriously consider the offer.

Props to the men who have the gumption to be so brash and forward. I would probably need some liquid courage to do it if I were interested in hiring. I have to be careful though. I go from “loose as a goose” at 2-3 drinks to “goose on the loose” at 5-6 drinks!

A version of this happened at my last employer holiday party when I had that one more drink I probably shouldn’t have. The guy did not work directly with me, as he was in a remote office in another city so I barely knew him. He’s extremely hot, very masculine, and by all accounts of discussing his life, also completely straight.

Some topic about gay stuff came up in our group of coworkers, and I joked “none of you would understand, you’re straight…but this guy [pointing to him], I don’t know about him!” He grinned, blushed, and shrugged his shoulders. Incredulous, I paused, and then kissed him right on the lips in front of everyone. He was into it. It was no peck either. Turns out he wasn’t so straight after all. At the end of the night, I slapped his ass as he got in his rideshare. 

Recalling everything the next morning, I was mortified. I never would have behaved so brazenly sober. Given, this has nothing to do with hiring, but I feel relevant to maintaining strictly professional relationships at work. Fortunately nobody made a big deal of it or brought it up. What happened at the bar, in this case, stayed at the bar.

[Rudynate]

On 1/31/2023 at 6:24 AM, CuriousByNature said:

I agree that adults have the right to say no to anything.  But some are unable to say no because of the circumstances they are in.  I'm not suggesting that you or others are being predatory, but 'cultivating' someone sounds like they are being trained up for a specific purpose they otherwise would not be interested in.

 

True - as lawyers say - a right to do something and the power to do it are two diffent things. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Simon Suraci said:

...I paused, and then kissed him right on the lips in front of everyone...

Yikes! This from the man who's critical of making a pass at the UPS man or pizza delivery man? You certainly seem to portray a man of extremes. 

[Simon Suraci]

29 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Yikes! This from the man who's critical of making a pass at the UPS man or pizza delivery man? You certainly seem to portray a man of extremes. 

Yeah, exactly, it’s totally uncharacteristic of me. That’s why I was so mortified. I never would have wanted that situation put upon myself or wished it on someone else. I consider it a cautionary tale about excess alcohol intake, and a reminder to treat people with the same respect I appreciate. One of many ways to do so is to avoid getting completely trashed so as to be more in control of my own behavior and in my right mind.

I am that guy who cringes at hitting on the UPS guy, but I’m also the one to think to myself, “damn, that UPS guy looks good in those shorts”. I just keep it to myself. Apparently, when I’m drunk my filter goes straight out the window and I become a lovey-dovey dick face.

🤷‍♂️🍆😵‍💫🍆🤷‍♂️

[jayjaycali]

Walking around Vegas years ago guys would lean in and ask "You workin'?"

 

I had no idea what they meant back then.  Now I get it🤣

[MaybeMaybeNot]

I don't hire,  but some of these "tactics" that have been attacked seen more like traditional marketing (forming a relationship in order to sell a product or service . . . or in this case,  earn trust to buy aservice) than predatory behavior.  As long as the person is of legal age and can decline without reprimand (such as offering a subordinate or losing a tip), I don't think it is as awful as some think. 

[+ FreshFluff]

On 2/11/2023 at 8:19 AM, Roberto said:

FYI Studchaser is a pimp specializing in "straight rough types" marketing to gay men (he posts on another board under a different name).....so his comments are self-serving and commerce related.....

This image is kind of funny. 

6'2" mean looking jacked guy stands on street corner, crushed Coors can in hand wearing a t-shirt that says "If you want my guns, come and get them" 

Studchaser: Awww, darling, you look rough. Need someone to protect you?

 

[mike carey]

On 4/18/2023 at 1:15 AM, Simon Suraci said:

... If you insist on hiring random guys who aren't providers…or you get off on the whole gay for pay IRL fantasy, feel free to leave your notes with phone numbers, envelopes of cash, verbal proposals, or what have you. BUT please keep your propositions out of your regular business transactions and work contexts. People work. The last thing they need is pressure and advances from a creepy guy when they are simply trying to do their job.

This.

On 4/18/2023 at 1:58 AM, Unicorn said:

Well, there's a huge, huge difference between the delivery man and an intern at your job. I'm not into that kind of stuff, but there are ethical and appropriate ways of approaching someone who doesn't work in the same place you do. Approaching someone who works where you do, especially if he works under you, will almost always be inappropriate. 

There is a difference but you are still in the delivery person's workplace and whatever local workplace sexual harassment laws apply will apply to you. In many jurisdictions they apply to customers as well as other workers and management. You as a customer may be liable, or harassment by a customer may leave the employer liable for failing to provide a safe workplace (they may even have a 'Don't react but tell us if a customer is a creep and we'll ban them' policy). It's not necessarily simply an issue of what is ethical, or of what is appropriate (or lawful) between two random members of the public.