Do you think current controversies with the transgender movement are making being gay more socially acceptable?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, caramelsub said:

...Should transgenders be able to use any bathroom they want based on how they identify? Is that really safe for cisgender women? ...

Jesus F. Christ. Melodramatic and playing on false fears, perhaps?

Yes, I agree that in professional sports, trans women do have an unfair advantage. I don't think the science is there to tell us at what age people should be eligible for gender-affirming treatments. From a medical standpoint, if one can be sure the decision is permanent, earlier would obviously be optimal. But I haven't seen the research as to what percentage of those who make a decision at 12 might have other thoughts when they get older. Ultimately, those decisions should be guided by scientific study, however, not by one's "feelings" or "intuition." 

[caramelsub]

52 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Jesus F. Christ. Melodramatic and playing on false fears, perhaps?

Yes, I agree that in professional sports, trans women do have an unfair advantage. I don't think the science is there to tell us at what age people should be eligible for gender-affirming treatments. From a medical standpoint, if one can be sure the decision is permanent, earlier would obviously be optimal. But I haven't seen the research as to what percentage of those who make a decision at 12 might have other thoughts when they get older. Ultimately, those decisions should be guided by scientific study, however, not by one's "feelings" or "intuition." 

Either way it’s not my battle. I don’t have any reason to fight for trans rights, because I’m not trans. Does that make me transphobic? I’m sympathetic to their community. But this lumping of gays and trans together, and narrative that gays and trans share in the same struggle is beyond me. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by caramelsub

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, caramelsub said:

Either way it’s not my battle. I don’t have any reason to fight for trans rights, because I’m not trans...

What a great attitude. It's the same nuts who fight both trans and gay, but if it doesn't affect you personally, you're not interested.

[caramelsub]

3 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

What a great attitude. It's the same nuts who fight both trans and gay, but if it doesn't affect you personally, you're not interested.

No it doesn’t affect me. I have no interest in being a woman. As I said before, I’m sympathetic to their community. 

[+ José Soplanucas]

Just now, caramelsub said:

No it doesn’t affect me. I have no interest in being a woman. As I said before, I’m sympathetic to their community. 

Well, your lack of empathy would be explained by transphobia.

[caramelsub]

4 minutes ago, José Soplanucas said:

Well, your lack of empathy would be explained by transphobia.

I’m not empathetic because I don’t share in their feelings. I don’t understand what it’s like to be transgender. I can only sympathize with them. Transphobia is a strong dislike or hatred of transgender people. I have never expressed that in any of my posts.

[pubic_assistance]

21 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

it doesn't affect you personally, you're not interested.

I don't agree with that viewpoint.

I think the two issues have different challenges they face, and I also don't agree with the OP comment that it's all just human rights. There are plenty of other bigotries in the world. You liquidate your agenda when you ask everyone on board. Should was also include gypsies in the LGBTXYZQRST ? A lot of people misunderstand them too.....

Edited May 31, 2023 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[Xavitv]

Even before the acronym became official, trans people were part of the gay/lesbian rights movement. It’s not something new. Some trans even started pivotal movements and created safe spaces for lgb peeps. 
I also believe that this new anti-trans trend is also affecting the whole acronym. It’s naive to believe that being anti-trans means they wont have any bigotry against lgb.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Xavitv

[SouthOfTheBorder]

20 minutes ago, Xavitv said:

also believe that this new anti-trans trend is also affecting the whole acronym. It’s naive to believe that being anti-trans means they wont have any bigotry against lgb

correct - the attack on trans people now is because they are perceived as the most vulnerable among our larger community.  It’s the beginning of an attack on established gay rights.  Just like Roe/abortion was not settled law, don’t for one minute think the Obergefell (required states to license and recognize same sex marriage) decision is also settled law.

In the fight for equal rights, there are no passive observers.  We are either allies & support, or you are against.  Peoples lives are in the balance

[pubic_assistance]

2 hours ago, Xavitv said:

trans people were part of the gay/lesbian rights movement.

Because some trans people are homosexual.

 

[+ augustus]

On 5/31/2023 at 8:19 PM, SouthOfTheBorder said:

In the fight for equal rights, there are no passive observers.  We are either allies & support, or you are against.  Peoples lives are in the balance

Exaggerate much?  Doing surgery on minors to change their sex is utterly ridiculous and has NOTHING to do with "equal rights". They can make their own decisions when they reach 18.   The gay community has been opposed to conversion therapy for minors to turn them straight but having surgery on minors and rearranging organs is OK!  Give me a break.  

Edited June 3, 2023 by augustus

[+ augustus]

We, as Americans, cannot legally buy Alcohol until 21, drive a car until 16, buy it tobacco 21, vote 18 yrs old, legally purchase a firearm 21 yrs and you are trying to tell me it’s ok for a kid, a child, to be able to have life altering, sex changes and hormone therapies before any of those ages??? Those are forever changes and it is not right. Period. What they do when they are of a legal, established adult age is their business, but not as a child.

[+ augustus]

Restricting a choice or way of thinking is not about rights.  If that were the case then those who identify as sovereign citizens should also have their rights, wants, desires and ways of life granted as well.  Such as being able to squat or claim property that isn't rightfully theirs. No license plates, registration or paying taxes. They have just as much belief in who they are or want to be as anyone else even as asinine as it sounds. But No. We can't go that route though because then you create a whole new set of rules for one subset that takes away from the rights or societal way of life for others. Basic Human rights for all equally, Yes.  Not the right to be whatever you want to say or believe that you are that trounces the rights of others. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by augustus

[+ José Soplanucas]

4 hours ago, augustus said:

The gay community has been opposed to conversion therapy for minors to turn them straight but having surgery on minors and rearranging organs is OK!  Give me a break.  

Yep. You need a break to read and learn what the doctors say.

Statement from the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Oklahoma Chapter of the American Academy of Pediatrics on Gender-Affirming Care

WWW.AAP.ORG

---

The American Academy of Pediatrics, along with its Oklahoma Chapter, are committed to the attainment...

 

[SouthOfTheBorder]

5 hours ago, augustus said:

Not the right to be whatever you want to say or believe that you are that trounces the rights of others.

People often conflate personal choices that have no impact on others (gender identity) vs choices that affect (and can damage) the greater society and individuals. They are not the same.
A driver without a license has the capacity to kill or injure another person and/or damage property.  A person determining their own gender identity has no impact whatsoever on others - if the others are minding their own business. 

As for tropes like the “bathroom” issue - anyone who travels knows that unisex bathrooms are standard in many parts of the world without issues. The bathroom thing is another hysterical talking point far removed from reality.

For those fragile people who are uncomfortable with anyone different than themselves - perhaps staying in the basement & trolling chatroom forums is a less triggering experience

Edited June 3, 2023 by SouthOfTheBorder

[rustyrex]

The transgender controversy is not making the gay lifestyle more acceptable.  This will be evident as we see what happens now that we have Pride Month in full swing.  Do not think for one second that because the trans community is being targeted and used as an excuse to allow discrimination and hate that this will not spill into the gay community.  It is only a matter of time before same sex marriage will be reversed and made illegal.  Do not get comfortable with thinking that your way of life is safe because you haven’t been targeted.  We are all in the same situation, and despite that we may not all see eye to eye with our lifestyles we should not allow one part of the community to be subjected to discrimination because we don’t think it affects “us”.  It’s now becoming acceptable to target the youth for being brave and coming out.  This lifestyle is not easy but allowing others to be targeted will only fracture the community and divide us.  LGBTQI+ people aren’t going anywhere and we shouldn’t believe that because one part of the community is being targeted that the rest of the community is “safe”.

[pubic_assistance]

11 hours ago, rustyrex said:

.  It is only a matter of time before same sex marriage will be reversed and made illegal.  Do not get comfortable with thinking that your way of life is safe because you haven’t been targeted.  We are all in the same situation.

Not happening.

And you're not in the "same situation".

So you can drop the righteous indignation. There is a majority of Americans now that don't care if gays get married. So the small minority of homophobes aren't changing the law..

Trans issues are a whole different thing and you do NOT have nearly the same support.

Social Justice is not a single battle..so stop trying to gain support from another social justjce group. The gays should have learned their lesson when they tried to saddle up the the black rights groups and got spat on.

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by pubic_assistance
spelling

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

11 hours ago, augustus said:

We, as Americans, cannot legally buy Alcohol until 21, drive a car until 16, buy it tobacco 21, vote 18 yrs old, legally purchase a firearm 21 yrs and you are trying to tell me it’s ok for a kid, a child, to be able to have life altering, sex changes and hormone therapies before any of those ages??? Those are forever changes and it is not right. Period. What they do when they are of a legal, established adult age is their business, but not as a child.

Exactly!  These same states that want to allow gender transition surgeries before age 18 without parental consent won't even let the same minor children get a tattoo without parent consent!

[+ José Soplanucas]

4 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

There is a majority of Americans now that don't care if gays get married. So the small minority of homophobes aren't changing the law..

Ha. Since when has the majority ruled in the United States?

 

4 hours ago, pubic_assistance said:

The gays

What is that?

[Guest]

22 hours ago, augustus said:

... Not the right to be whatever you want to say or believe that you are that trounces the rights of others. 

I have no idea what you were trying to say in this sentence. Writing under the influence??

[+ KensingtonHomo]

On 6/3/2023 at 2:15 PM, Vegas_Millennial said:

Exactly!  These same states that want to allow gender transition surgeries before age 18 without parental consent won't even let the same minor children get a tattoo without parent consent!

There is no state in this country where a minor can get gender-affirming surgery without parental consent. That's a lie being spread by the anti-trans movement, which is in league with fascists, homophobes and white supremacists. So let's try to do better than perpetuate their propaganda. 

[+ KensingtonHomo]

On 6/3/2023 at 11:02 AM, pubic_assistance said:

Not happening.

And you're not in the "same situation".

So you can drop the righteous indignation. There is a majority of Americans now that don't care if gays get married. So the small minority of homophobes aren't changing the law..

Trans issues are a whole different thing and you do NOT have nearly the same support.

Social Justice is not a single battle..so stop trying to gain support from another social justjce group. The gays should have learned their lesson when they tried to saddle up the the black rights groups and got spat on.

 

It would be so nice to read a book about social justice movements before spouting off complete nonsense. Legislation to end gay marriage has been introduced in more than one state. Look at the "Don't Say Gay" bills, "freedom of conscience" bills and book bans. TRans folks are the easy target for a much larger movement to reverse our rights. 

If you don't think it can happen, look at abortion; look at unionization; look at countless other rights that have been reverse in our lifetimes. 

Gender and sexuality are intrinsically linked, though neither are immutable. Most gay men and lesbians are bullied, discriminated and attacked for being gender nonconforming, not because they have sex with the same gender in their homes. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

49 minutes ago, KensingtonHomo said:

There is no state in this country where a minor can get gender-affirming surgery without parental consent. That's a lie being spread by the anti-trans movement, which is in league with fascists, homophobes and white supremacists. So let's try to do better than perpetuate their propaganda. 

I thought sharing facts would help (help the both of us).

The Washington Bill which passed does indeed approve gender treatment and surgery without parental consent, provided the parents are estranged.  I was unaware of this last requirement.  In the event the parents are estranged, then the medical facility must notify the State who then may or may not try to contact the parents.  I personally see no reason why an estranged parent should allow to make any decisions over their estranged children, if the parent is the one causing the estrangement by kicking the minor out of the house.

So now we both know that some states do allow surgery for minors without parental consent if those parents are estranged.  We should both be in a better position to discuss this with others in the future.

[+ KensingtonHomo]

3 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

So now we both know that some states do allow surgery for minors without parental consent if those parents are estranged.  We should both be in a better position to discuss this with others in the future.

This is so disingenuous. ONE state has a provision for minors estranged from their parents, which you turned into "states where teens can get surgeries."  

This is the medical equivalent of claiming trans women are destroying women's sports without mentioning how often cis women beat trans women at nearly every high school and college sport (it's the majority of the time). 

[+ José Soplanucas]

13 minutes ago, Vegas_Millennial said:

I thought sharing facts would help (help the both of us).

The Washington Bill which passed does indeed approve gender treatment and surgery without parental consent, provided the parents are estranged.  I was unaware of this last requirement.  In the event the parents are estranged, then the medical facility must notify the State who then may or may not try to contact the parents.  I personally see no reason why an estranged parent should allow to make any decisions over their estranged children, if the parent is the one causing the estrangement by kicking the minor out of the house.

So now we both know that some states do allow surgery for minors without parental consent if those parents are estranged.  We should both be in a better position to discuss this with others in the future.

Let's stick to the facts. When you say "some states", do you mean "only one state"?

Edited June 5, 2023 by José Soplanucas