Monkeypox a new worry for gay and bi men

[musclelover]

8 hours ago, nate_sf said:

No side effects to speak of, other than a bit of soreness in my arm from where the covid shot went in, and a bit of redness where the mpx shot went in.

I had not planned to have both at the same time, but when I signed up for the mpx shot they asked if I also wanted the covid booster. I asked them if it was OK to do both at the same time, and they said yes. But they said don't do them at the same time as the flu shot.

Now I'm REALLY confused. 

I've seen the CDC's ambiguous guidance about the preference for spacing 28 days between the Covid booster and the monkeypox shot.

But I've seen absolutely NO guidance on the need to space any particular amount of time between the flu shot and the monkeypox shot.  

Can anyone point to whether one has to space out the flu shot and monkeypox shot?

 

[mike carey]

33 minutes ago, musclelover said:

But I've seen absolutely NO guidance on the need to space any particular amount of time between the flu shot and the monkeypox shot.  

Can anyone point to whether one has to space out the flu shot and monkeypox shot?

In the past I've seen guidance here not to have the Covid and influenza vaccinations at the same time, so monkey pox may not have been the issue. (That guidance, however seems to have lapsed recently.)

[RyanDean]

I've mostly encountered testimony from folks who had a terrible experience doubling up on this flu vaccine & the bivalent covid booster. But I have noted that the New Jersey Department of Health is encouraging folks to get flu & covid at the same time, so who knows. 

But part of the reason I thought it best (for me) to do the Covid booster alongside the mpx2 (today!) was to allow myself a few weeks before it becomes necessary for me to get the flu shot. 

[nate_sf]

1 hour ago, RyanDean said:

I've mostly encountered testimony from folks who had a terrible experience doubling up on this flu vaccine & the bivalent covid booster.

That was the sense I got from the staff at the clinic. I did not perceive it to be a hard-and-fast rule, so much as guidance on how to prevent yourself from being too miserable.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, musclelover said:

....Can anyone point to whether one has to space out the flu shot and monkeypox shot?

 

I don't think there's been any such recommendation or warning. I'm scheduled to get my flu shot on October 1st, 2 weeks after my first (and probably only) monkeypox intradermal shot. I'll probably get the omicron shot a couple of weeks later. Probably due to having been vaccinated for smallpox when I was a kid, I've had a fairly uncomfortable (and prompt) reaction to the monkeypox shot, which is essentially the same. That's enough indication to me that my immune system recognizes the antigens quite well, and doesn't need another reminder. Of the three illnesses, I'm most worried about influenza, next about monkeypox, and much less about omicron (nothing more than a nuisance unless there's some serious underlying illness). 

I'm curious to hear from other old farts such as myself, who were vaccinated for smallpox as young 'uns. Did you have fast and severe reactions from the monkeypox shot(s)?

Edited September 21, 2022 by Unicorn

[MikeBiDude]

15 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

I'm curious to hear from other old farts such as myself, who were vaccinated for smallpox as young 'uns. Did you have fast and severe reactions from the monkeypox shot(s)?

No reaction to MPX #1 (intradermal), I get #2 next week. Smallpox vaccine probably 60+ years ago.

[RyanDean]

As a kid, I moved from the US to a part of the world where smallpox was not uncommon so I got a first major smallpox shot followed by a booster each year through my tweens. As I recall, I got at least one booster *after* the announced eradication because my father's employer wanted to be cautious. This was about 40-45 years ago.

Fast forward to 2022, I had no noticeable reaction my intradermal MPX1 the first week or so (not even a welt or raised bump). Then, somewhere around the two week mark, I noticed that I had what I thought was a weird mosquito bite that itched like crazy but seemed not to respond to being scratched. It took me a day or two to clock that the "bite" -- a firm pinkish bump -- was actually at my vaccination site. The nagging itch continued for maybe a week and the firm pinkish bump began to recede in the final week of the 28days. 

I got my intradermal MPX2 only yesterday, so it's hard to say. So far, it's behaving a little bit differently, but nothing really noticeable in terms of sensation.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by RyanDean

[momentous]

I had my second monkeypox vaccination in NYC this morning.  My first was subcutaneous but this one was intradermal.  I was nervous about the visible weal on my forearm.  I noticed on a sign posted in the vaccination cubicle that there was an option for intradermal below the scapula on the back.  I asked about it and all I had to say was I nervous about a visible weal on my forearm.  A Department of Health RN took over and did the shot on back.  It's still itchy and raised, but not on my arm.

She told me they're not really advertising it because there are less people trained to do it that way and it takes more time.  But it's available - at least at the City run vaccination sites.  (Did mine at 42nd Street).

Anyway, if you're nervous about it being visible, this might be an option to look into.  The RN said to tell anyone that might be hesitant to get the vaccination for that reason.

[Spursy]

16 hours ago, Unicorn said:

I'm curious to hear from other old farts such as myself, who were vaccinated for smallpox as young 'uns. Did you have fast and severe reactions from the monkeypox shot(s)?

I was vaccinated for smallpox as a young 'un shortly before routine smallpox vaccinations ceased in the U.S.  I had my first monkeypox shot (intradermal) six days ago and got the common swelling and welt, both of which seemed significant.  I still have the hard bump (a little bigger than pea-sized) at the injection site and some much-reduced swelling (maybe an inch in diameter) around it. 

I don't think I had any other reactions.  But I can't say for sure, because I became symptomatic for Covid within a couple of hours of my monkeypox shot.  Which was all seven days after receiving the new bivalent Covid booster.  🙃 

[spidir]

I was concerned about the severe swelling and spreading redness after my first vaccine. I was relieved to have experienced less of a reaction to the second intradermal shot. The emerging Rates of Monkeypox Cases by Vaccination Status is encouraging.

[Luv2play]

I've had 4 covid vaxes and one Monkeypox. Had smallpox vaccinations twice in my youth. These latest have had no serious side effects except some tenderness in the vaccination spot. Looking to get the flu shot next month when it becomes available, as I have done for over 20 years. And the covid booster in December, 6 months after the last booster in June. 

Vaccinations certainly have become a way of life these last two years, more than since I was a kid. Sign of the times I guess.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Luv2play

[Spursy]

4 hours ago, spidir said:

I was concerned about the severe swelling and spreading redness after my first vaccine. I was relieved to have experienced less of a reaction to the second intradermal shot. The emerging Rates of Monkeypox Cases by Vaccination Status is encouraging.

Glad to hear this and hope I have the same experience with my second intradermal shot in a few days.  I'm still waiting for some lingering discoloration and a now-very-tiny bump to go away from the first one three-and-a-half weeks ago.  

[Guest]

On 10/8/2022 at 5:01 PM, Luv2play said:

I've had 4 covid vaxes and one Monkeypox. Had smallpox vaccinations twice in my youth. These latest have had no serious side effects except some tenderness in the vaccination spot. Looking to get the flu shot next month when it becomes available, as I have done for over 20 years. And the covid booster in December, 6 months after the last booster in June. 

Vaccinations certainly have become a way of life these last two years, more than since I was a kid. Sign of the times I guess.

If you had your smallpox vaccines in your youth, you may not need another MP booster. I got a pretty serious reaction to my 1st MP (which I consider a booster), and I just hope it won't leave a scar. I'm not going to tempt fate again. Are you saying that in Canada, flu shots aren't available until November? That's surprising, especially since recipients aren't well-protected until 2 weeks after you receive the shot. I doubt your Covid booster from June, assuming it's the old formulation, will protect much against omicron, which seems to have mostly escaped immunity from the old vaccine. If you want protection from the current (and it seems to be fairly stable) variant, I'd get the omicron-specific booster. Fortunately, few countries now require testing prior to travel (light green), and only China is banning travel at this point:

[SirBillybob]

15 hours ago, Unicorn said:

If you had your smallpox vaccines in your youth, you may not need another MP booster. I got a pretty serious reaction to my 1st MP (which I consider a booster), and I just hope it won't leave a scar. I'm not going to tempt fate again. Are you saying that in Canada, flu shots aren't available until November? That's surprising, especially since recipients aren't well-protected until 2 weeks after you receive the shot. I doubt your Covid booster from June, assuming it's the old formulation, will protect much against omicron, which seems to have mostly escaped immunity from the old vaccine. If you want protection from the current (and it seems to be fairly stable) variant, I'd get the omicron-specific booster. Fortunately, few countries now require testing prior to travel (light green), and only China is banning travel at this point:

Canadian flu vaxx guidance is ASAP following product distribution and recognizes potential for Oct influenzidence uptick but the reality is that annual admin rollout usually lags into Nov and even Dec. In Quebec I used to have to scrounge for and pay for a shot at a travel clinic. Most GPs just won’t have or give it. They are too stretched and a huge swath of genpop has no GP, so it makes sense to task-spare. Most vaccines are now bookable on a web platform and available at many pharmacies. That said, pharmacies have only so much capacity to accommodate the full genpop. Some pharmacists give the jab; others book a nurse for a shift here and there in order to reduce the interruption of meds dispensing. It’s more organized now. It would have been shocking a few years back for a pharmacy to cold call phone and explain candidacy for Pneumovax or Prevnar but I recently received such a call. 

Canada had approved Moderna bivalent BA.1 and just a few days ago Pfizer BA.4/5, but pushing the former for now and dissuading genpop sommelier stance. But Imma hold out for Pfizer boost though last dose (Spikevax) 10 months ago. I want to rev ‘0 to 60’ from ancestral strain base to more predominant Omicron variant. The guidance for Luv2Play is 6 month boost interval but >3 months from his June dose is discretionary. As indicated, some of this hinges on how contrarian one’s critical appraisal of immunization guidance is. My exposure risk is low and I may have priority in the eventual Pfizer queue because on paper I have only had a primary mRNA series. In reality primed with an experimental protein subunit, a little piggy not making it market. 

MPXV vaxx (thread topic) thoughts to follow.

Edited October 10, 2022 by SirBillybob

[SirBillybob]

Key takeaway from BN elaborate preprint:

‪1st Imvamune dose is *booster dose post childhood Vaccinia (older subjects) & noninferior to 2 current doses for Vaccinia-naïve (ie, younger) even up to 2 yrs, but 2-year booster for the younger then supersedes older. The 2nd *booster for older seems superfluous for now; can defer to an undefined date.‬ The question, then, is when should group older folks pursue uptake 2nd *booster in order to more closely equivalize the titres conferred by a booster at 2.5 years past primary series (6 months past booster for younger vaccinia-naïve), of course given unknowns about correlation between immunity parameters and protection. ‬

(Parenthetically, recent M&M Weekly Report suggests 14-fold infection incidence unvacc compared to single dose MVA-BN, and recommends 2nd primary series dose without stratifying according to Vaccinia history … likely the simplest guidance without creating confusion, ambiguity, etc, and no evidence of harm from a possibly essentially superfluous or premature 2nd dose application for smallpox vaxx’d)

BN manuscript:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.09.07.22279689v1.full.pdf

Caveat as always, often overlooked: immune response is predicated on Vaccinia and not specific  to Monkepox: orthopox class transferability is theoretically imputed. 

Edited October 10, 2022 by SirBillybob

[Luv2play]

As usual, SirBillybob offers up-to-date and cogent advice. Thanks.

[EZEtoGRU]

20 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

As usual, SirBillybob offers up-to-date and cogent advice. Thanks.

Agreed. He’s the go-to medical professional on this site. 

[SirBillybob]

1 minute ago, EZEtoGRU said:

Agreed. He’s the go-to medical professional on this site. 

No no no no … that is not my role. I am simply sharing what I have gleaned from reading, at times trying to simply fill in some gaps here and there. These comments generally apply to my own personal decision-making; in that way they are constricted and should not supplant more legitimate formal options for members’ information-seeking. There are other members that conscientiously share science-centric discourse, eloquently and on point, and there is no solid purpose in comparing and contrasting the relative value of such contributions. 

[Guest]

According to today's New York Times, monkeypox cases seem to be petering out. Their data is from the CDC:

[Spursy]

5 hours ago, Unicorn said:

According to today's New York Times, monkeypox cases seem to be petering out. Their data is from the CDC:

Well, peters out was the problem in the first place.  

Seriously, that is good news.  

[Luv2play]

Today I received an email from Quebec offering to schedule my second Monkeypox vaccination. I received my first in mid-July. It was easy to register on-line and I have an appointment in late October (my choice).

Later in the day I received another email from the Ontario health officer offering a Covid booster with the bivalent vax. I will schedule this for Dec, 6 months after my last booster.

I then have to fit in my annual flu shot at the local pharmacy, which is not yet available.  

So much to keep track of but I haven't had the flu in decades, Covid yet and also not contracted Monkeypox. And I'm still seeing providers on a regular basis. I always ask about their vaccination status before engaging. The ones I hire always are willing to share their info. So far, so good. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Luv2play

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Luv2play said:

Today I received an email from Quebec offering to schedule my second Monkeypox vaccination. I received my first in mid-July. It was easy to register on-line and I have an appointment in late October (my choice).

Later in the day I received another email from the Ontario health officer offering a Covid booster with the bivalent vax. I will schedule this for Dec, 6 months after my last booster.

I then have to fit in my annual flu shot at the local pharmacy, which is not yet available.  

...

Unless there's a surprising change in the data, it's probably not worthwhile getting the MPX booster at this point. The number of total MPX cases in the entire Kingdom of Canada can be literally counted on the fingers of one hand for every 3 day period over the last month:

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/monkeypox/#a4

 

(sorry, I couldn't fit the graph into one file). Note that the numbers on the left of the graph are the actual number, not in hundreds or thousands.

[Guest]

It also looks like the total number of cases in both Quebec and Ontario for the last month can also be counted on the fingers of one hand. Not worth risking an allergic reaction and/or scar in my opinion. Also, since you're of the age when you receive this vaccination as a young 'un, this is probably all the booster you'll need. Similar falling data in the US, so I'm not risking another booster myself.

[Guest]

Cases petering out in the US also. Unless one were at extreme risk, risk of vaccine booster probably greater than risk of the illness at this point.

https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/response/2022/mpx-trends.html

Edited October 18, 2022 by Unicorn

[Spursy]

51 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

Not worth risking an allergic reaction and/or scar in my opinion. Also, since you're of the age when you receive this vaccination as a young 'un, this is probably all the booster you'll need. Similar falling data in the US, so I'm not risking another booster myself.

 

Unicorn, I had my second Jynneos shot on Thursday and am just old enough to have received a smallpox vaccination as a child.  For what it's worth, I had a strong reaction (a decent-sized welt) to the second one that went away far more quickly than the reaction to the first Jynneos shot.  I still have a gradually fading spot from the first Jynneos shot but really nothing from the second one.  Individual cases may be different, of course.  But I had a similar concern about the second one and it didn't pan out that way. For what it's worth . . . .