Monkeypox a new worry for gay and bi men

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Spursy said:

Unicorn, I had my second Jynneos shot on Thursday and am just old enough to have received a smallpox vaccination as a child.  For what it's worth, I had a strong reaction (a decent-sized welt) to the second one that went away far more quickly than the reaction to the first Jynneos shot.  I still have a gradually fading spot from the first Jynneos shot but really nothing from the second one.  Individual cases may be different, of course.  But I had a similar concern about the second one and it didn't pan out that way. For what it's worth . . . .

I appreciate the feedback. If the data change unexpectedly, I could change my mind. However, I feel it's highly unlikely I'd have a bad bout of MP even if I were to get infected. Having a milder reaction to the 2nd shot would be unusual, since the immune system is primed, but it's good to know it's not inevitable. I have a few friends (younger) who've had 2 shots, and they appear to have the mark of Cain... 😬

In Kabbalah, the Zohar states that the mark of Cain was one of the twenty-two Hebrew letters of the Torah, although the Zohar's native Aramaic does not actually tell us which of the letters it was. Some commentators, such as Rabbi Michael Berg in his English commentary on the Zohar, suggest that the mark of Cain was the letter vav.

[Spursy]

18 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Having a milder reaction to the 2nd shot would be unusual, since the immune system is primed, but it's good to know it's not inevitable.

To be clear, I had a strong reaction to the second dose that went away much quicker than the first time around.   Maybe the medical profession considers duration to be a dimension of severity, but--in lay terms--my reaction to the second was not milder, it was just quicker.  The second injection site was also far less noticeable than the first, although I assume that has something to do with the skill of the person administering it.

Then again, I had somewhat worse side effects from my first shingles vaccine dose than my second.  So maybe I am an immunological oddity.   🤔😂

[BeamerBikes]

Got my 1st shot intradermal Jynneos today(Oct 18th) in Chgo burbs.  Oddly, the public health nurse mentioned it will likely be just a single dose for me. Unless direct exposure or being immunocompromised, that agency is only doing single doses.  

I didn't read through the entire thread, but haven't heard of other places going single dose only.  

Also never been smallpox vaccinated, would it be more likely or less likely to have a local site reaction for the 1st dose? It's been 12 hours and so far just feel a little headache but no sign at injection site. 

[+ newatthis]

On 10/17/2022 at 3:42 PM, Luv2play said:

Today I received an email from Quebec offering to schedule my second Monkeypox vaccination. I received my first in mid-July. It was easy to register on-line and I have an appointment in late October (my choice).

As did I.  First shot was in June while visiting Montreal.  Don't plan to be back until this coming June; assuming/hoping the second shot will still be available then.

[Luv2play]

2 hours ago, newatthis said:

As did I.  First shot was in June while visiting Montreal.  Don't plan to be back until this coming June; assuming/hoping the second shot will still be available then.

Don't know about that. My doctor told me yesterday that there have been no cases in Ontario since late in Sept. Not sure about Quebec situation. He wasn't sure I needed the second shot but I am going ahead with it. He said only 3 people in my age group got Monkeypox in Ontario but I told him I didn't want to be no. 4 . 

And I do go to Montreal often enough to warrant caution. 

[SirBillybob]

This article nicely summarizes the breaking research … some of which has already been touched on wrt this thread…

https://www.aidsmap.com/news/oct-2022/monkeypox-vaccine-appears-effective-studies-have-mixed-results

[SirBillybob]

I also received the Quebec 2nd dose prompt. I am sticking to my plan to hold off as an older childhood smallpox vaxx recipient. My main concern would be wintering in Colombia/Brazil as usual, but case incidence appears to be self-limiting even without vaccination access. Running its course, altered sexual behaviours, vaccination impact irrespective of the first two factors, who knows? I may need to adjust expectations for infection avoidance given a focus on sexual interaction when there. 
 

[Luv2play]

I went through the same factors when discussing this with my doctor. I hadn't seen the above chart which shows a recent slight uptick in cases in the US. A number of the escorts I see in Canada travel often to the States altho I haven't been since the pandemic.

[Luv2play]

1 hour ago, SirBillybob said:

This article nicely summarizes the breaking research … some of which has already been touched on wrt this thread…

https://www.aidsmap.com/news/oct-2022/monkeypox-vaccine-appears-effective-studies-have-mixed-results

Good article to read. In it the suggestion is made that even a third booster may be desirable to curb transmission. It concludes that from various studies, the vaccine itself may not stop all transmissions. But it helps a lot including avoiding serious disease even if one catches it.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, SirBillybob said:

This article nicely summarizes the breaking research … some of which has already been touched on wrt this thread…

https://www.aidsmap.com/news/oct-2022/monkeypox-vaccine-appears-effective-studies-have-mixed-results

Well, that article summarizes a bunch of studies which are all observational. The only way to know a vaccine is effective is to give a bunch of people the real vaccine and some a placebo, then compare infection rates and severity between the two groups. To my knowledge (and according to that article), this has not been done, so any statement as to efficacy has to be based on assumptions and speculation. Administering the current vaccine, which is basically cowpox virus, protects against smallpox, so it's rational to believe it will protect from monkeypox. Trying to infer a certain level of protection from antibody levels, etc., is just guessing. The truth is that we do not know much about any level of protection, how many shots are needed and so forth. With cases being so rare these days, it's unlikely a real study on efficacy will be done (unless the trend reverses). 

All I know is that if Putin unleashes the smallpox on the West, it may be that sexually active gay men will be all that's left. Just horny gay men running the world. Now there's a thought. 

[SirBillybob]

AFAIK no gold standard placebo-control randomized clinical trial officially registered, just a large-ish observational cohort in Spain where subjects have self-selected for MVA-BN. Prospective incidence over 6 months but with it currently really tamped down.

And the small dose-sparing noninferiority comparator trial in USA, only 70 subjects in each of 3 arms, and immunogenicity only … there we go again, only inferences possible. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by SirBillybob

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, SirBillybob said:

AFAIK no gold standard placebo-control randomized clinical trial officially registered, just a large-ish observational cohort in Spain where subjects have self-selected for MVA-BN...

Drawing conclusions from observational cohorts involves some pretty wild speculations and assumptions. Obviously, there could be tons of differences between those who chose to get vaccinated and those who didn't. It's highly likely, for example, that those who get vaccinated tend to me more cautious, intelligent, and so on. Observational studies' utility lies in their potential as reasons to fund a real clinical trial. Period. 

[Guest]

Monkeypox cases continue to bottom out:

https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/response/2022/mpx-trends.html

[Luv2play]

I went to Montreal today and got my second vax sc. The nurse told me I should get a booster 2 years from now as the effects of the two I received will wear off. 

We'll see what the situation is then. Meantime I feel I have done what I can to deal with the threat of acquiring Monkeypox.

Took advantage of the visit to eat at one of my favorite restaurants. And then a lovely walk along the beautiful historic Lachine Canal where it empties into Lac St. Louie. 

[SirBillybob]

Monkeypox is so last season in Quebec. Currently elevated incidence of paediatric RSV is pushing children’s hospitals to the capacity brink, what with disease season moving in.

[SirBillybob]

14 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Monkeypox cases continue to bottom out:

https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/response/2022/mpx-trends.html

Curiously and crudely, Brazilian MSM make for an interesting non-MVA-BN-uptake observational comparator group. I sliced in at Aug. 24th as that is when Brazil launched a more elaborate public awareness campaign. The main incidence epicentres had been very up to speed very early on in terms of health professionals’ awareness of disease presentation and diagnosis. Begs the question: was immediate rolling natural immunity among high infection susceptibles and dispersers going to cut it on its own, eventually burning out spread just about anywhere?

Edited October 28, 2022 by SirBillybob

[BeamerBikes]

On 10/18/2022 at 10:36 PM, BeamerBikes said:

Got my 1st shot intradermal Jynneos today(Oct 18th) in Chgo burbs.  Oddly, the public health nurse mentioned it will likely be just a single dose for me. Unless direct exposure or being immunocompromised, that agency is only doing single doses.  

I didn't read through the entire thread, but haven't heard of other places going single dose only.  

Also never been smallpox vaccinated, would it be more likely or less likely to have a local site reaction for the 1st dose? It's been 12 hours and so far just feel a little headache but no sign at injection site. 

So update the intradermal site on the 1st dose formed a dime size raised red skeeter bite.  Isn't too bad.  

Still curious what a 2nd dose would likely look like.  Would the reaction be more pronounced or less.  Fun times.  

[EZEtoGRU]

11 hours ago, BeamerBikes said:

So update the intradermal site on the 1st dose formed a dime size raised red skeeter bite.  Isn't too bad.  

Still curious what a 2nd dose would likely look like.  Would the reaction be more pronounced or less.  Fun times.  

My second dose got less of a reaction and faded quicker than the first.  The woman who administered the second one said many people have a lesser reaction to dose #2.  

[Luv2play]

It's been 27 hours since my second dose and only a little mark where tje needle went in. No side effects. 

[HoseMaster]

I received my first Monkey Pox dose a little over five weeks ago, and my second one a little over a week ago.  They gave them both subcutaneously (like a TB test), as they are able to give five effective vaccinations from one bottle versus one.  The top smaller one is my first.  Neither itches, nor any other side effects to report.

[RadioRob]

When I received my 2nd dose… by the time I got to day 2 and 3, my arm looked like it was a victim of a hate crime. But by day 5, it started returning to normal. By day 8, you could not tell I had a shot. 

[+ Axiom2001]

On Saturday I received my second dose of the M-pox vaccine--no pain or anything.  Yesterday, the area where the shot was administered was red and itchy.  Today, at this very moment of my writing, the reddish mark has completely disappeared, and I "aint" encountered any type of itching.  

So I guess I have survived and am glad to be relatively protected; thus I will begin to reach out to some "providers" who have supposedly have had all of their necessary vaccinations.

The "needed fun" begins again!

[Guest]

This virus is no longer a threat in the US. I would advise against immunization at this time. 

[Guest]

I'm not sure why @Luv2play has to post a silly eye rolling emoji. If he has different data to share or some intelligent interpretation of these data, I'd love to hear it. Obviously over the last few weeks, the odds of contracting MP are so minute, that one is more likely to be seriously injured in an accident on the way to the vaccine site--or even more likely to be harmed by the vaccine itself (which is live). The current average total number of daily cases being reported in the entire USA is 23:

https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/response/2022/mpx-trends.html

The situation is even better in Canada; it appears that the total number of cases reported in the entire country over the last month can be counted on the fingers of one hand:

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/monkeypox/

So the benefit of the vaccine at this point (at least in the USA and Canada) is essentially zero, and the risks definitely not zero. If anyone disagrees, I'd love to hear a well thought-out, intelligent counterargument. 

[+ Vegas_Millennial]

I received my 2nd monkeypox vaccine last week, 3 months after my first dose.  I waited 3 months between doses because I received my first dose subcutaneously in July, but then the local health district was only administering the vaccine intradermally via the emergency authorization to make supplies last starting in August.  Finally in October they began offering the vaccine subcutaneously upon request, since there is no longer a shortage of vaccines.   I refused to get the vaccine intradermally because my doctor and I felt the risk of scaring caused by intradermal injection outweighed the minimal benefit of a 2nd dose for me as long as I was avoiding bathhouses, which were the epicenters of outbreaks.