Jamie21

Looks like I’ve fallen into the trap of trying to argue with someone who is an expert haggler! @Jaroslav I’m sure if I had the temerity to say the sun rises in the East you’d argue it didn’t 😂. I’m guessing you’re a lawyer? Probably a good one too. No, I’d not tell the client he’d overshot. I’d tell him it was tough but ok he’d beaten me down and I’ll do it. Price is determined by supply and demand in a perfect market where both parties have full information. Where that isn’t the case the seller can make excess profit if they have better information than the buyer.

I think I am being honest. Negotiations need both parties to engage in them. If providers refuse to enter into a negotiation (which I have said is the case most of the time) then it isn’t a negotiation. It’s one sided, and that’s what I’d call a client ‘haggling’. Example: Client “how much for 1 hour?” Provider “£200” Client “hmm will you do £150?” Provider “sorry no” Client “but I’m hot / a student / hung / poor this month / will become a regular / semi famous / here’s a dick / bum pic to persuade you” Provider……(tumbleweed…) Blocks client. Thats haggling. Alternatively… Client “hmm will you do £150?” Provider “can do £175?” Client “£165 and you have a deal” Provider “Ok £165” (prepares to offer a £165 service rather than a £200 service). That’s negotiating. See the difference?

It wasn’t inadvertent. Context applies. Weekend rates is quite a different thing to a session of 1 or 2 hours.

Yes it’s to do with perspective. As a provider I see it as haggling (especially if asked twice). A client might see it as negotiating. I’m always intrigued how so many guys who haven’t done sex work (massage or escorting) seem to have such strongly held views about how to do the job. Even when most of the guys who actually do the work contradict what the guy is saying!

They’re testing your limits. For services like that, where there really isn’t much of a market rate, it’s best to find out how much the client is prepared to pay. If you answer him with say £5k then he’ll be delighted he didn’t quote you £3k…If his real price for it is £7k then he’ll say ‘no, sorry’ and wait for you to up your offer.

Of course you can haggle! And of course I’ll say ‘no, this is my price’. And of course you can continue to haggle. And of course I’ll then ignore you. Don’t need those kind of clients. There’s plenty who don’t haggle. If I felt the need to accept haggling clients then I’d simply exit the business. I’d say that’s why it generally doesn’t happen: because guys in this business don’t want to deal with that kind of client. Sure, you’ll find some that do, and you’ll find those are probably not very good because they’re doing it because they have to rather than because they want to. That’s the crux of it.

Before Brexit there were even more of them here!

I think there’s no good reason for requiring a picture. It’s just because he’s being picky about who his client is, and that is a sign he’s doing the work as a way to earn a bit of money from his sex life. So beware if you’re asked for a pic. There are ways of getting around the recognition issue of buzzing in to a secured building. Many intercoms don’t have video anyway. Just give the client a password to say. And if meeting in a hotel lobby I usually just tell my client what I’m wearing and where I’m sitting and they find me. I saw a client recently at a hotel and sent him a description of what I was wearing once I’d arrived in the lobby. He texted back with his attire. Was easy to find each other. Only once I’d sent the text did I realise that I couldn’t really be missed…I had my portable massage table next to me 😂

The prior replies I accord with. It really should not be necessary. I never ask for pictures and prefer not to receive a pic of the client. I agree with @Simon Suraci in that it usually implies they want me to comment, or offer them a free session because they’re so hot. That’s never going to happen. Most of the times a prospective client sends a pic unsolicited then they never go on to book a session. Find a guy who doesn’t ask you for a pic. Chances are he’s doing the job because he enjoys it regardless of the clients looks etc rather than effectively monetising his sex life. That kind of sex worker isn’t likely to be much good.

I don’t care about being seen with a client. It’s only happened once as far as I’m aware. I was in the jacuzzi with the client who booked me when the guy who recognised me got in and started chatting. It was quite awkward because my client was already anxious about going (he’d only been to a sauna once before and had been ignored). Also I didn’t want to embarrass my client by telling the guy who saw me what the ‘arrangement’ was but turns out he guessed because he later texted me to ask if the guy I was with was a client. Somehow we must have given off those vibes!

If the client is my client, and they’ve asked me to arrange the extra pair of hands then I’ll get my collaborator’s fee, add mine and then quote the client the combined fee. My rate for a 4 hands is almost the same as my rate for just me, it’s only slightly less because the time involved is the same. The client pays me at the end of the session and then I settle up with my collaborator. I don’t do sessions where the client arranges the other person because I like to know who I’m working with. Similarly if I’m asked by another guy to join them for their client then I quote my usual rate. A couple of the guys I regularly work with know what my rate is so there’s no need for them to check with me, they just give their client the total rate. If their client is ok with that then they’ll check my availability. I regularly get asked if I can work with a female. I do have a few females who I’m good to work with but I’d say that it’s much more expensive to hire a M/F than it is to hire M/M. Their rates are significantly higher than mine so if you’re hiring me with a female then it’s going to look expensive. In this industry it’s the women who get paid more!

I’ve a friend who started out as a client. He hired me about a dozen times. We first met at a social event and then he began hiring me. We became friends and the final time he hired me I declined payment because the relationship had changed. It’s the only client that has happened with but I felt uneasy about him paying me when our relationship had developed into friendship (meals out, holidays, theatre trips etc). It’s not a bf situation because he knows what I do and neither of us is monogamous. I personally would find it difficult to treat friends as paying clients. I prefer to keep that separate.

It seems this problem is more prevalent in the US. My experience is in London and I don’t see the price differential based on race here, but possibly that’s because I don’t overtly look for it. Price varies more on the age of the provider although even that doesn’t seem to have a strong correlation. I work with younger guys cheaper than me and an older guy who is more expensive. I think all sorts of factors influence price, including how much business the provider wants. You can use price to manage your demand and the sensible providers will do exactly that. Want to be working every day with multiple clients? Reduce the price. Want to see 2 a week? Raise it. I’m always surprised by clients who ask “are you ok with seeing me?”…and they send a pic. I’ve been asked do I see Asians?, and by a black woman would I see her? The answer is it doesn’t matter what your race is, unless you’re French of course (joke!!…the English love the French 😉). I don’t see patterns of behaviour with different race clients either. Maybe they’re there but I haven’t noticed any. There’s some nationality traits that exist…Americans are generally very polite (I love being called sir). Middle Eastern clients are usually inhibited (most of the time except just before climax!) and they won’t engage in much talk or make eye contact. I think this is because of religious guilt 🙁. I think making assumptions about people based on race is a way of saving time “x is black therefore he will be like this, so I won’t bother to hire him / seek him as a client”. It’s kind of normal to do that because you simply can’t get to know the real person in every interaction with people on a daily basis, so you lump them into broad categories based on what they look like. That’s when problems start. However, I’d argue that doing sex work is exactly your role to get to know the real person (at least to get to know what drives them sexually- which is the most basic of human behaviours) beyond the surface of what they look like. So if you’re a sex worker who takes the work seriously why would you not want to look beyond the superficial and see the real person underneath? If you’re doing the work properly that’s exactly what you need to do to be successful. This client here isn’t ‘black’ he’s John and your job is to find out what drives John’s sexual desire and meet it as best you can. If you do that John will come back. Guaranteed.

I agree to not rely on one income source. It’s also essential for your mental wellbeing to find some way to follow your passion even if it’s not (yet) your main income. I have four jobs, or sources of income. Each of them is something I’m interested in or passionate about. It can be challenging managing the demands between them but it’s what I chose and it’s on my terms.

Occasionally I’ll be asked by a client if I’ll accompany them to a sauna (bathhouse) but I usually decline because I prefer not to see clients there for that reason. People just aren’t respectful if you want to be in a private room alone. I don’t mind if they want to watch, in fact that’s usually the reason a client wants to do a sauna visit, so that they can be watched with me, but it usually ends up with someone watching and then thinking they can become involved. Then they get upset when told they can only watch. I had one guy watching me with a client one time who tried 3 times to join in with us. We were in a private room and it had a viewing window but the door didn’t lock. The guy was watching us through the window and he decided he wanted to join in. After he’d come in and been told ‘no’ the third time my client told him that he’d booked me for the session and it was pointless trying to join in because I was only going to play with the client. All he could do was watch us. The guy got really angry and then threatened to tell the management that I was charging and that we would both be chucked out. Luckily, either he didn’t tell or they just didn’t believe him because nothing happened.

Yep, I count my regular clients as those who’ve come back at least twice and their first visit was over a year ago. Also we can discuss things happening in their life… as in “how’s the wife?” 😂

Those are probably from clients he likes. Or they’re fake.

Those are my races. If you don’t like them, I have others. (With acknowledgement to Groucho Marx)

He’s monetising his sex life, I expect he is new to this and he won’t be around long. Your pics should not be required, and he should provide you with his pics.

I tell clients they can touch me as much or as little as they like. It’s their massage, if they like to touch me that’s fine. Some enjoy the touch, some explore, some just don’t touch atall and some want to suck me. It’s all fine by me. It’s very difficult for parts of me not to touch my client at times during the massage. If I’m naked, which most clients prefer (at least for part of the massage) then if standing at the side then my cock is bound to brush my client’s hand. As for the line between massage and escorting it’s not really a concern for me but of course I work in a country where the latter is legal (within certain circumstances) so it’s just a question of whether I’m fine to be doing escort work, which I am! I think it’s a fabulous way to work. If I worked somewhere where escorting or sex work was against the law then I’d be careful to stay the right side of the line.

I wouldn’t make fun of them, it’s annoying but people are allowed to ask for a discount. I think it saves me time in finding out that they’re not suitable for me. I just say ‘no’ and I make sure they don’t book. It’s like this; my rate is clear, it’s (say £250)…that’s what I value my time/effort/service as. And because the product is basically me, that’s what I’m valuing me as. Now….some client comes along, has a look at my product, and decides to offer say £200. He clearly knows my rate is £250 but to get a bit off to make him feel special or clever or that he’s smarter than me he tries for £50 off. Obviously he can afford £250 or he wouldn’t be shopping here but hey, he’s always looking for a deal so why not see if this guy will do one for him? I read his offer and think ‘ah ok so he values me at 20% less than I value me…and he’s looking to have a great experience? I’ll put him in the same category as the ‘hey are you free now?’, ‘hi here’s a pic of my cock / ass’ and ‘do you do half hour sessions?’ punters and simply say ‘no sorry’ and save myself the trouble of seeing this client.

If my client cums ‘early’ then I consider it my role to help him cum again! When I was learning massage I did a swap session with an older guy who was happy to pass on all he’d learned. The session started about 6pm and we were together until after midnight. We exchanged massages and shared ideas and techniques, each of us reaching climax multiple times. I’d say there’s no reason why someone should want to leave after climax unless they’re in a hurry or they simply aren’t into their provider or they have some guilt about the session. I see that happen sometimes with clients, they cum and then they feel a sense of shame, and want to leave, which is really unfortunate and it makes me sad for them.

Follow your passion, it’s what you’re good at. You’ll find a way to monetise it. When I employ people I look for those with a passion for the work. Obviously they want the job because it pays but their primary reason for doing it must be their love of it. It’s easy to tell when someone has that. Those people are successful in it, they see opportunities others don’t, they stand out, they make money. When you look back on your life you want to say ‘no regrets’. If you don’t follow your passion can you truly say that?

This has been debated at length previously (I can’t find the other discussions though!). Hence my tongue in cheek earlier post about the RUB&TUG group. I think the best thing to do is ask your masseur what they include in the massage. I describe myself as a sensual masseur but judging by some of the comments on here I’m an escort. I tend to have a wide definition of what is included in my massage. The crucial thing though is that my service is centred around my client receiving a proper massage. Lots of other escort type activities happen but there’s always a massage. I’m not bothered about being described as an escort but I think for some clients it’s preferable for them to be visiting a masseur rather than an escort.

The global organisation that regulates the erotic / sensual massage industry: The Regulatory Union of Bodyworking has a sub committee (The Terms Unifying Group) that is set up to handle issues like this. At the last meeting of the RUB&TUG group (as it is known for short) the members couldn’t reach agreement on what the difference was between a sensual massage and an erotic massage. The minutes show that the meeting ended unhappily although it was agreed that in that situation the meeting could not have been classified as sensual or erotic.